Formula 1 2023

[Native Horn 3569]

10 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Once football season starts I have not as much time to follow racing like during summer.

What are you all hearing about expectations for Las Vegas? I have seen a couple videos on the YouTube that people are predicting a complete clusterfuck, from Liberty Media’s arrogance in demanding things be paid for to workers staying home that weekend.

I’ve only been there once, for fewer than 48 hours when I went to look at a car. I didn’t put a penny into a machine. I am not a gambler. I went swimming and to two dinners, as well as to the dealership. I think Vegas is pretty much a horrible place but, to each his own.

I have seen reports that F1 is making them put film on the glass crosswalks to block the views. They also wanted, at first, venues to pay up to $1,500 per person a restaurant, or bar, could fit if there is a chance that someone would be able to see the track.

It just seems, to me, that this will be a complete shit show with trash celebrities and just too much stupid crap.

I guess it won’t be like in the movie Viva Las Vegas. 

I have seen it opined on the socials that the temp for the race is forecasted to be about 4 degrees Celsius (40 Fahrenheit), and with such long straightaways with not many turns, that tires won't heat up appropriately, and traction could be an issue.  The track, to me, looks like it is built way more for the fans than the drivers (of course limited by geography).  Hoping for the best, expecting the worst.  

That, combined with quali being at 2:00am central on Fri night/Sat morn and the race starting at midnight central on Saturday night, makes it a bit inconvenient for establishing more of a foothold in North America.  But, will I watch it?  Damn straight.

[utee94 16065]

I don't think the ask for covering the bridges is any big deal, they do it at pretty much every circuit and it's as much a safety thing as anything else, keeping people from clogging up the bridges and making them impassable.

Not sure how they're going to collect on 3rd party venues with views like hotels or restaurants, or how they'd realistically block a view of a 3rd party venue that refused to pay.  In actuality, what I expect has happened is that the venues have agreed to pay some fee, and they're passing it on to customers, and the customers are gladly paying because it's Vegas and spending money extravagantly is what people do in Vegas.

I've stated my personal opinion of expectations for the actual track many times.  In general I think street courses suck, and I expect this one to be as bad or worse than most.  But hey, I could certainly be wrong and will be delighted if it ends up being a fun track.

Oh, and I definitely will not be watching any of this stuff real time.  I'll DVR it all and watch at some reasonable time during the weekend.

 

[kevwun 16269]

I believe AM scrapped at least some of their upgrades and went back to the setup they had at the beginning of the year.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

I don't think the ask for covering the bridges is any big deal, they do it at pretty much every circuit and it's as much a safety thing as anything else, keeping people from clogging up the bridges and making them impassable.

Not sure how they're going to collect on 3rd party venues with views like hotels or restaurants, or how they'd realistically block a view of a 3rd party venue that refused to pay.  In actuality, what I expect has happened is that the venues have agreed to pay some fee, and they're passing it on to customers, and the customers are gladly paying because it's Vegas and spending money extravagantly is what people do in Vegas.

I've stated my personal opinion of expectations for the actual track many times.  In general I think street courses suck, and I expect this one to be as bad or worse than most.  But hey, I could certainly be wrong and will be delighted if it ends up being a fun track.

Oh, and I definitely will not be watching any of this stuff real time.  I'll DVR it all and watch at some reasonable time during the weekend.

 

Yeah, you have to cover the bridges or else they turn into a spot where people stand and watch and clog it up. They do this at all races and even where there is a peek people will stop to watch or get a photo. It's annoying at best and dangerous at worst.

[wood 11747]

2 hours ago, utee94 said:

I don't think the ask for covering the bridges is any big deal, they do it at pretty much every circuit and it's as much a safety thing as anything else, keeping people from clogging up the bridges and making them impassable.

Not sure how they're going to collect on 3rd party venues with views like hotels or restaurants, or how they'd realistically block a view of a 3rd party venue that refused to pay.  In actuality, what I expect has happened is that the venues have agreed to pay some fee, and they're passing it on to customers, and the customers are gladly paying because it's Vegas and spending money extravagantly is what people do in Vegas.

I've stated my personal opinion of expectations for the actual track many times.  In general I think street courses suck, and I expect this one to be as bad or worse than most.  But hey, I could certainly be wrong and will be delighted if it ends up being a fun track.

Oh, and I definitely will not be watching any of this stuff real time.  I'll DVR it all and watch at some reasonable time during the weekend.

I think wwhat really pissed off people re: the bridges was when they had already wrapped the glass on the bridges a couple of weeks ago. people started pulling the wrap off in protest, or just so they could see and take pictures.

Re: having venues pay for their view, I think that got nixed by Vegas, but everything is at that link I posted earlier.

3 hours ago, Native Horn said:

I have seen it opined on the socials that the temp for the race is forecasted to be about 4 degrees Celsius (40 Fahrenheit), and with such long straightaways with not many turns, that tires won't heat up appropriately, and traction could be an issue.  The track, to me, looks like it is built way more for the fans than the drivers (of course limited by geography).  Hoping for the best, expecting the worst.  

That, combined with quali being at 2:00am central on Fri night/Sat morn and the race starting at midnight central on Saturday night, makes it a bit inconvenient for establishing more of a foothold in North America.  But, will I watch it?  Damn straight.

Temps are going to be a problem for the teams regarding the tires. How big of a problem? We'll see. It's also a brand new, completely green surface, so that likely won't help matters. Some are predicting another tire fiasco that will prevent the race from happening - at least at night. I doubt it'll be as bad as that, but who knows.

Re: the session start times, I watch most sessions delayed anyway, so it's not a huge deal to me, but as strange as it seems with F1 saying they want to tap this market, those times aren't set for us. They're set by the big casinos, to get European eyeballs on the Vegas Strip at night. Yes, F1 wants this to be their U.S. jewel, but the casinos are driving this bus in the sense that they're using it to sell Vegas to the international market, not the American market. If they have to show Vegas during the day and in the middle of the night European time, they won't be onboard, and if they aren't onboard, this race does not happen, no matter how much F1 wants it.

The biggest problems I know of facing this race at this point are (1) the transport of tens of thousands of workers and guests into and out of resorts in the interior of the track as shifts change and guests just want to come and go, and (2) the possible upcoming food and beverage workers strike. Things like the bridge wrap and cutting down the big trees along the strip for F1, the near-extortion attempt of businesses with views, the use of local taxes to re-pave the circuit, the poor, late, and incomplete planning by F1, etc, etc, etc have all pissed off the locals, bbut that won't stop the race from happening. IMHO, much like loki at the link I posted, is that they'll get the agreed-upon initial 3 GPs in, but after that ...

[wood 11747]

43 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I believe AM scrapped at least some of their upgrades and went back to the setup they had at the beginning of the year.

Yeah they scrapped some of the upgrades that they couldn't validate and kept the ones they could validate, and ran a mix of old and new.

Some have suggested that they just dropped all the upgrades and went back to square one, but that conflicts with more detailed reports, and what we're hearing from the team - that they kept some of the upgrades and pulled some of them at least for now. And it makes more sense than them just going all the way back to square 1 and performing this well this late in the season. Going back to square 1 would likely make this car illegal anyway (post TDs).

[kevwun 16269]

Yeah, I don't think they could have completely reverted to the car as it was at the start of the year and been the 3rd fastest team this past weekend.

[ConferenceRoom 6210]

And since I'm stealing Reddit content, I might as well steal the top comment, as well.

[ChickenSandwich 9918]

2 hours ago, wood said:

I think wwhat really pissed off people re: the bridges was when they had already wrapped the glass on the bridges a couple of weeks ago. people started pulling the wrap off in protest, or just so they could see and take pictures.

Re: having venues pay for their view, I think that got nixed by Vegas, but everything is at that link I posted earlier.

Temps are going to be a problem for the teams regarding the tires. How big of a problem? We'll see. It's also a brand new, completely green surface, so that likely won't help matters. Some are predicting another tire fiasco that will prevent the race from happening - at least at night. I doubt it'll be as bad as that, but who knows.

Re: the session start times, I watch most sessions delayed anyway, so it's not a huge deal to me, but as strange as it seems with F1 saying they want to tap this market, those times aren't set for us. They're set by the big casinos, to get European eyeballs on the Vegas Strip at night. Yes, F1 wants this to be their U.S. jewel, but the casinos are driving this bus in the sense that they're using it to sell Vegas to the international market, not the American market. If they have to show Vegas during the day and in the middle of the night European time, they won't be onboard, and if they aren't onboard, this race does not happen, no matter how much F1 wants it.

The biggest problems I know of facing this race at this point are (1) the transport of tens of thousands of workers and guests into and out of resorts in the interior of the track as shifts change and guests just want to come and go, and (2) the possible upcoming food and beverage workers strike. Things like the bridge wrap and cutting down the big trees along the strip for F1, the near-extortion attempt of businesses with views, the use of local taxes to re-pave the circuit, the poor, late, and incomplete planning by F1, etc, etc, etc have all pissed off the locals, bbut that won't stop the race from happening. IMHO, much like loki at the link I posted, is that they'll get the agreed-upon initial 3 GPs in, but after that ...

So a team like Haas who has a car that eats tires might find some pace in the cold temps?

[wood 11747]

2 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

So a team like Haas who has a car that eats tires might find some pace in the cold temps?

Maybe. And Williams, Merc, etc.  But then Merc's straight-line speed is suffering. Who knows? 

Also ... 

http://redirect.viglink.com/?key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&subId=6126830&u=https%3A//theathletic.com/5042346/2023/11/08/las-vegas-gp-f1-tires-cold/

Quote

Las Vegas will also be the first F1 race in truly cold conditions since Pirelli revised the tire specifications in 2022 with 18-inch tires. While 2020 had two low-temperature events in Turkey and Germany, those ran on 13-inch tires with thicker sidewalls. “If we talk about 18-inch tires, it’s probably the first time we’ve had this kind of temperature,” said Isola.

This race could be a really wild outlier with a crazy pecking order. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by wood

[Hawndoh 2409]

Or everyone quits immediately due to tires like they did at Indy.

[Anton Chigurh 3332]

[NoName 17105]

21 hours ago, wood said:

CWe'll see how it goes in Vegas and AD though. The cold temps in Vegas are gonna make for an adventure on the tire front.

yup, you are right - the cold temps are a huge issue and drivers are going to *HATE* the track because of it.

[Burt Macklin 19210]

6 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

So a team like Haas who has a car that eats tires might find some pace in the cold temps?

Ferrari put heat in their tires better than anyone and they tend to have a good straight line speed this year. I could definitely see a Leclerc pole position incoming. I’m sure Max will when the race though, unless RB just can’t put heat into the tires. 

[dieucla98 2954]

Given how well RB and Merc take care of their tires, that to me reads they may struggle here getting tires up to temp. Other teams that chew tires up like Ferrari and McLaren may look great here. 

I'm sure RB have plenty of room to make changes to address this but one can hope.

[utee94 16065]

 

[Goofyboy 3428]

[G650 14421]

2 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

So long as it doesn't turn into a Harry Plopper

[G650 14421]

https://apnews.com/article/f1-andretti-general-motors-fia-expansion-las-vegas-00f4b0699326fa0330051f95e7c70ef4

[NoName 17105]

[wood 11747]

5 hours ago, dieucla98 said:

Given how well RB and Merc take care of their tires, that to me reads they may struggle here getting tires up to temp. Other teams that chew tires up like Ferrari and McLaren may look great here. 

I'm sure RB have plenty of room to make changes to address this but one can hope.

Merc suffered severe tire deg in Brazil. Aside from being slow af, that was a huge issue for them. Who knows if that will continue in Vegas. And Shovlin iirc has already said Ferrari has bridged the gap to Merc in terms of tire deg.

Edited November 9, 2023 by wood

[wood 11747]

2 hours ago, G650 said:

https://apnews.com/article/f1-andretti-general-motors-fia-expansion-las-vegas-00f4b0699326fa0330051f95e7c70ef4

Read: 

”Fuck you. We’ll sell Cadillacs with Andretti because we know them and think they will sell Cadillacs”.

And "No, Mr. Vowles, we don't know you or think much of the prospect of you helping us sell on Monday".

It's just too funny ... these frauds claiming an Andretti-Cadillac entry has no value, while simultaneously trying an end-around to lure Cadillac into F1 without Andretti. GM/Cadiilac should ask Vowles what 'added value' he and Williams could bring to them that Andretti can't bring.

[wood 11747]

Re: Vegas, it'll be cold, but I don't see any current forecast that's showing 39 degrees. More like 50.

[kevwun 16269]

Pirelli might as well not bother bringing hard tires.

[Anton Chigurh 3332]

Merc suffered severe tire deg in Brazil. Aside from being slow af, that was a huge issue for them. Who knows if that will continue in Vegas. And Shovlin iirc has already said Ferrari has bridged the gap to Merc in terms of tire deg.

That was a setup issue, though. They were way too conservative on ride height this time because of what happened at COTA, and they tried to bolt on more rear wing to compensate. The result was that they were super draggy and had horrible balance. Vegas isn’t exactly a track that will favor them since it’s a bunch of rear limited corners and straights, but they should be better than at Brazil (not accounting for super cold temps, at least).

[Chewbacca 7827]

1 hour ago, wood said:

Re: Vegas, it'll be cold, but I don't see any current forecast that's showing 39 degrees. More like 50.

It cools off fast in the desert after the sun goes down.  Looks like a low of 43 for Sunday on the site I checked.  Probably be closer to 40 than 50.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Chewbacca

[kevwun 16269]

Wind could be a bitch on the strip also if it's blowing.  It's like a giant wind tunnel when it's windy.

[wood 11747]

13 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

It cools off fast in the desert after the sun goes down.  Looks like a low of 43 for Sunday on the site I checked.  Probably be closer to 40 than 50.

All the major weather sites I'm looking at are predicting lows from the high 40s to low 50s that weekend, but even then, they have race-time temps 6-8 degrees higher than the low. Even with a low of 43, you're probably still looking at about 50 degrees at race time.

Edited November 9, 2023 by wood

[Guest]

Ferrari's special livery:

[wood 11747]

And oh yeah, re: GM, Jenna Fryer says GM Prez Mark Reuss & other high GM brass will be meeting with Domenicali and presumably Maffei in Vegas.

[deft 7043]

That Ferrari livery will look sharp when it DNF’s

[wood 11747]

Danny Ric 'bout to be on Jimmy Kimmel Live y'all ...

Edited November 10, 2023 by wood

[morehornsepower 888]

9 hours ago, wood said:

Danny Ric 'bout to be on Jimmy Kimmel Live y'all ...

Damnit!  I assume this was awesome?

[Dutch 4533]

 

[NoName 17105]

[wood 11747]

17 minutes ago, NoName said:

Weather underground says right now that it should be around 55F at race start. There is a chance of rain the first 2 nights though. It's still early, but that might warrant keeping an eye on.

Edited November 10, 2023 by wood

[wood 11747]

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, wood said:

[Guest]

Just asked AI to create an image of the podium celebration for Las Vegas in 2023:

 

[Mittens 8631]

As someone who has been vehemently against (as if my opinion matters) both Miami and Vegas hosting GP, I am starting to get fired up about this race.  Pulling for full pure chaos, zero grip, a shitload of crashes in an otherwise horribly boring race on that busted ass circuit, and a universal terrible reviews of the overall event afterwards.  All I want is a pure, unadulterated shitshow.  

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Mittens said:

As someone who has been vehemently against (as if my opinion matters) both Miami and Vegas hosting GP, I am starting to get fired up about this race.  Pulling for full pure chaos, zero grip, a shitload of crashes in an otherwise horribly boring race on that busted ass circuit, and a universal terrible reviews of the overall event afterwards.  All I want is a pure, unadulterated shitshow.  

My take is that leading up to anything new, there's always this vibe... and it never pans out. Things generally go ok.

Except for Fyre Fest.

[dieucla98 2954]

I think the build up will be epic and the drivers will rave about the atmosphere until they get in the car on Friday night. Then the proverbial shit will hit the fan.

Kinda like most of my Vegas trips.

[deft 7043]

Don’t sell it short. Let’s not forget all of the hospitality workers going on strike too.

[kevwun 16269]

15 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

My take is that leading up to anything new, there's always this vibe... and it never pans out. Things generally go ok.

Except for Fyre Fest.

This one has a shot because the actual race track is going to make traffic a disaster because it blocks access to the biggest casinos.

[Hawndoh 2409]

The only thing I want out of this race is the GM executives that are going can sufficiently pressure F1 to open the door for Andretti.

Anything else is gravy.

[wood 11747]

FYI, 'tis the season if you're looking for cheaper F1 merch. I just picked up 3 stocking stuffer AMR #14 hats at the F1 store for what one of them would have cost at the USGP.

[utee94 16065]

Just now, wood said:

FYI, 'tis the season if you're looking for cheaper F1 merch. I just picked up 3 stocking stuffer AMR #14 hats at the F1 store for what one of them would have cost at the USGP.

Yup.  And like I mentioned before, the Puma Outlet in Round Rock is a great place to go for Ferrari and Merc merch.

[wood 11747]

Yep & Dick's has some Haas, Alpine, & AT stuff. No thanks on the Haas & Alpine shit, for sure.

Edited November 11, 2023 by wood

[Mittens 8631]

1 hour ago, wood said:

FYI, 'tis the season if you're looking for cheaper F1 merch.

If you're not above likely counterfeit merch, and I'm not, there's some decent stuff here: www.fromoutlet.com

[wood 11747]

28 minutes ago, Mittens said:

If you're not above likely counterfeit merch, and I'm not, there's some decent stuff here: www.fromoutlet.com

Damn, great prices, and some of that stuff looks pretty noice, too.