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this might be important. Is fusion important?

Willfully Horn

By Willfully Horn
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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 8,058

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Sure. I want to believe.

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llUS scientists boost clean power hopes with fusion energy breakthrough

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US government scientists have made a breakthrough in the pursuit of limitless, zero-carbon power by achieving a net energy gain in a fusion reaction for the first time, according to three people with knowledge of preliminary results from a recent experiment. Physicists have since the 1950s sought to harness the fusion reaction that powers the sun, but no group had been able to produce more energy from the reaction than it consumesPlease use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found here. 
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Although many scientists believe fusion power stations are still decades away, the technology’s potential is hard to ignore. Fusion reactions emit no carbon, produce no long-lived radioactive waste and a small cup of the hydrogen fuel could theoretically power a house for hundreds of years. The US breakthrough comes as the world wrestles with high energy prices and the need to rapidly move away from burning fossil fuels to stop average global temperatures reaching dangerous levels. Through the Inflation Reduction Act, the Biden administration is ploughing almost $370bn into new subsidies for low-carbon energy in an effort to slash emissions and win a global race for next-generation clean tech. The fusion reaction at the US government facility produced about 2.5 megajoules of energy, which was about 120 per cent of the 2.1 megajoules of energy in the lasers, the people with knowledge of the results said, adding that the data was still being analysed.

— a milestone known as net energy gain or target gain, which would help prove the process could provide a reliable, abundant alternative to fossil fuels and conventional nuclear energy. The federal Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, which uses a process called inertial confinement fusion that involves bombarding a tiny pellet of hydrogen plasma with the world’s biggest laser, had achieved net energy gain in a fusion experiment in the past two weeks, the people said.

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The US department of energy has said energy secretary Jennifer Granholm and under-secretary for nuclear security Jill Hruby will announce “a major scientific breakthrough” at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory on Tuesday. The department declined to comment further. The laboratory confirmed that a successful experiment had recently taken place at its National Ignition Facility but said analysis of the results was ongoing. “Initial diagnostic data suggests another successful experiment at the National Ignition Facility. However, the exact yield is still being determined and we can’t confirm that it is over the threshold at this time,” it said. “That analysis is in process, so publishing the information . . . before that process is complete would be inaccurate.”

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Two of the people with knowledge of the results said the energy output had been greater than expected, which had damaged some diagnostic equipment, complicating the analysis. The breakthrough was already being widely discussed by scientists, the people added. “If this is confirmed, we are witnessing a moment of history,” said Dr Arthur Turrell, a plasma physicist whose book The Star Builders charts the effort to achieve fusion power. “Scientists have struggled to show that fusion can release more energy than is put in since the 1950s, and the researchers at Lawrence Livermore seem to have finally and absolutely smashed this decades-old goal.” Recommended The Big Read Nuclear fusion: why the race to harness the power of the sun just sped up The $3.5bn National Ignition Facility was primarily designed to test nuclear weapons by simulating explosions but has since been used to advance fusion energy research. It came the closest in the world to net energy gain last year when it produced 1.37 megajoules from a fusion reaction, which was about 70 per cent of the energy in the lasers on that occasion. At the launch of a new White House fusion power strategy this year, Congressman Don Beyer, chair of the bipartisan fusion energy caucus, described the technology as the “holy grail” of clean energy, adding: “Fusion has the potential to lift more citizens of the world out of poverty than anything since the invention of fire.” Most fusion research is focused on a different approach known as magnetic confinement fusion, in which the hydrogen fuel is held in place by powerful magnets and heated to extreme temperatures so the atomic nuclei fuse. Historically, that science has been done by large publicly funded laboratories, such as the Joint European Torus in Oxford, but in recent years investment has also flooded into private companies promising to deliver fusion power in the 2030s. In the 12 months to the end of June, fusion companies raised $2.83bn in investment, according to the Fusion Industry Association, bringing total private sector investment to date to almost $4.9bn. Nicholas Hawker, chief executive of Oxford-based start-up First Light Fusion, which is developing an approach similar to that used at NIF, described the potential breakthrough as “game-changing”. “It couldn’t be more profound for fusion power,” he said.
 

https://www.ft.com/content/4b6f0fab-66ef-4e33-adec-cfc345589dc7

 

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Edited by Willfully Horn
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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 8,058

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FT isn’t the only entity carrying the story.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-scientists-achieve-holy-grail-231150102.html

https://www.newsweek.com/nuclear-fusion-ions-discovered-behaving-strangely-1759380

 

VICE weighed in a week ago.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/ake8n5/government-scientists-approaching-what-is-required-for-fusion-in-breakthrough-energy-research

 

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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 8,058

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2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm okay on fusion.  Like the whole Roy Choi, Korean/mexican taco fusion thing?  Those are pretty tasty.  But other times, it's like they're trying to hard.  I don't need your radical take on German/Filipino pasta dishes.

Truth. Cajun Vietnamese gumbo ought use sassafras’s for flavor, not as a base.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,451

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Just now, Willfully Horn said:

Truth. Cajun Vietnamese gumbo ought use sassafras’s for flavor, not as a base.

But them Vietnamese sure do know how to boil a crawfish or two.  Shit, when the Gambit lists the best places for boiled crawfish in NOLA each season, it's gotten to where 75% of the places listed are Vietnamese cajun.  That was a cultural marriage what was destined to happen.  Two swampy peoples who will eat the shit outta anything. It's beautiful.

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 77,558

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3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm okay on fusion.  Like the whole Roy Choi, Korean/mexican taco fusion thing?  Those are pretty tasty.  But other times, it's like they're trying to hard.  I don't need your radical take on German/Filipino pasta dishes.


Wok-A-Mole in corpus laughs in your face 

What better way to top those buffet enchiladas than with some buffet Gen Joes !

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15,544

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2 hours ago, Viper said:

This would be huge. Commercial viable fusion power would revolutionize our world and put us on the track to stopping global warming.

Well, ok--yeah.  Sure.

How long are we talking here?  From the time of the first fission reaction in 1942, it was 14 years before there was a civilian nuclear power plant.  And that was largely during wartime that the advancement in fission technology was made.  So we might expect this to be quite a bit slower.

But even so, if fusion were to become a usable power source within 30 years, I'm not sure any of us can fully grasp the global political and economic consequences.  For one thing, we could quit caring about the Middle East; their sole economic value just became valueless.  But at the same time, there are a whole lot of people in Texas with no education that are making six figures digging stuff out of the ground that is no longer worth anything.

Neither group is going to slink off into poverty quietly.

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Viper

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3 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Well, ok--yeah.  Sure.

How long are we talking here?  From the time of the first fission reaction in 1942, it was 14 years before there was a civilian nuclear power plant.  And that was largely during wartime that the advancement in fission technology was made.  So we might expect this to be quite a bit slower.

But even so, if fusion were to become a usable power source within 30 years, I'm not sure any of us can fully grasp the global political and economic consequences.  For one thing, we could quit caring about the Middle East; their sole economic value just became valueless.  But at the same time, there are a whole lot of people in Texas with no education that are making six figures digging stuff out of the ground that is no longer worth anything.

Neither group is going to slink off into poverty quietly.

we'll still need gas and diesel for cars along with fuel for jets and rockets. I would think the unwind from oil would be somewhat slow as more fusion energy plants are built, and vehicles are replaced with electric.

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MoJames

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21 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

But even so, if fusion were to become a usable power source within 30 years, I'm not sure any of us can fully grasp the global political and economic consequences.  For one thing, we could quit caring about the Middle East; their sole economic value just became valueless.  But at the same time, there are a whole lot of people in Texas with no education that are making six figures digging stuff out of the ground that is no longer worth anything.

No Problem Snl GIF by Saturday Night Live

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Fusion is not likely to be commercially viable in our lifetime, and maybe not in anyone’s lifetime. This has nothing to do with the actions of oil and gas companies or any other group with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.  The reason is because there are lots of cheaper ways to make clean energy.  There is a massive gap between showing that something can make net energy for brief moments in a lab and having a grid level commercially viable energy source. Even after decades of experience operating them, the much simpler and cheaper fission reactors are seldom commercially viable.  After decades with fusion and billions spent, we just barely made net energy; almost certainly the most expensive energy ever produced.  But somehow commercial fusions reactors that require materials yet to be developed (and certainly not cheap) that can handle the intense neutron radiation will solve our energy problems. 
 

I would love to be proven wrong on the above and I’m glad there are folks working on fusion.  But I’m skeptical we get a silver bullet solution to the global energy problem.  The world needs to focus on clean energy solutions based on proven technology as if fusion will never become viable at scale. 
 

 

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gyroprotagonist

gyroprotagonist 2,595

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13 minutes ago, axiom of foundation said:

Fusion is not likely to be commercially viable in our lifetime, and maybe not in anyone’s lifetime. This has nothing to do with the actions of oil and gas companies or any other group with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.  The reason is because there are lots of cheaper ways to make clean energy.  There is a massive gap between showing that something can make net energy for brief moments in a lab and having a grid level commercially viable energy source. Even after decades of experience operating them, the much simpler and cheaper fission reactors are seldom commercially viable.  After decades with fusion and billions spent, we just barely made net energy; almost certainly the most expensive energy ever produced.  But somehow commercial fusions reactors that require materials yet to be developed (and certainly not cheap) that can handle the intense neutron radiation will solve our energy problems. 
 

I would love to be proven wrong on the above and I’m glad there are folks working on fusion.  But I’m skeptical we get a silver bullet solution to the global energy problem.  The world needs to focus on clean energy solutions based on proven technology as if fusion will never become viable at scale. 
 

 

plus this dude would steal the secret

81in+fLQBsL._RI_.jpg

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tbone_

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Fusion is not likely to be commercially viable in our lifetime, and maybe not in anyone’s lifetime. This has nothing to do with the actions of oil and gas companies or any other group with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.  The reason is because there are lots of cheaper ways to make clean energy.  There is a massive gap between showing that something can make net energy for brief moments in a lab and having a grid level commercially viable energy source. Even after decades of experience operating them, the much simpler and cheaper fission reactors are seldom commercially viable.  After decades with fusion and billions spent, we just barely made net energy; almost certainly the most expensive energy ever produced.  But somehow commercial fusions reactors that require materials yet to be developed (and certainly not cheap) that can handle the intense neutron radiation will solve our energy problems. 
 
I would love to be proven wrong on the above and I’m glad there are folks working on fusion.  But I’m skeptical we get a silver bullet solution to the global energy problem.  The world needs to focus on clean energy solutions based on proven technology as if fusion will never become viable at scale. 
 
 

Correct. Lots of wood still to chop. But it will get figured out eventually.
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wild_turkey

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The world needs to focus on clean energy solutions based on proven technology as if fusion will never become viable at scale. 


With our current technologies, it seems our clean energy sources in order of potential capacity are nuclear (fission), wind, solar, hydro. Unfortunately, the world can’t figure out what to do with nuclear because too many people have been scared into thinking it’s unsafe or bad for the environment. And the other sources are inadequate to completely replace fossil fuels.

So we need to either change the minds of policy makers regarding nuclear and rapidly scale that up, or innovate new technologies that don’t currently exist.

And yeah, keep developing solar and wind, but we can’t keep our heads in the sand and think those things will be enough.
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10 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

 


With our current technologies, it seems our clean energy sources in order of potential capacity are nuclear (fission), wind, solar, hydro. Unfortunately, the world can’t figure out what to do with nuclear because too many people have been scared into thinking it’s unsafe or bad for the environment. And the other sources are inadequate to completely replace fossil fuels.

So we need to either change the minds of policy makers regarding nuclear and rapidly scale that up, or innovate new technologies that don’t currently exist.

And yeah, keep developing solar and wind, but we can’t keep our heads in the sand and think those things will be enough.

 

Agreed on changing public opinion and minds of policy makers on nuclear.  Small modular reactors have potential if they don’t face excessive resistance. 
Regarding wind and solar, they will play an important role, but likely  supplemental role only for many grids.  I think off shore wind has potential to be viable without perpetual subsidies.   Fusion has such a long way to go that I don’t know of any organization that considers it even in their long term energy plans (beyond 2050).  
 

There are lots of interesting scientific breakthroughs that simply aren’t practical at scale.  Fusion is like graphene, can do everything except leave the lab.  Again, I hope one day we can make affordable, reliable energy with fusion at scale.  Would arguably be the largest technological leap in human history and would completely change the world.  

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YGIFS

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What was the movie where some president’s son has some super secret energy intel and the president handcuffs the hard drive to himself And has to avoid having the intel stolen from him in compromised New York?  And the badass dude destroys the laptop case at the end as he escapes?   It was all there in the laptop.  

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,451

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What was the movie where some president’s son has some super secret energy intel and the president handcuffs the hard drive to himself And has to avoid having the intel stolen from him in compromised New York?  And the badass dude destroys the laptop case at the end as he escapes?   It was all there in the laptop.  

I think you’re thinking of Hunter’s cock.
I mean, I KNOW you’re thinking about it, but you were also thinking about it when you typed your response.
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105,451

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Oh sorry creepy old man, judges were looking for “escape from New York.”   And I guess There was a cassette tape in that laptop case, not a computer.    But who
gives a fuck about facts?  

The judges were looking for the name of a Kurt Russel masterpiece.
You, however, were looking for Hunter’s dong. Don’t know how you missed it. It’s huge.
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