F35 Shitbird, F22 Badass and similar

[Parliament 14224]

Search on here blows.  If there's already a thread, I'll delete.

https://taskandpurpose.com/navys-f-35-strike-radars-already-date-new-report-says/

The Navy’s newest fighter jet, the stealthy F-35C, may not have the range it needs to strike enemy targets, the House Armed Services Committee said in a new report, raising troubling questions about whether the multibillion-dollar program is already outpaced by threats.

And critics say the Navy fighter — part of the Joint Strike Fighter initiative, the most expensive weapons program in history — may actually have been out of date years ago.

Well that's bad.  How do we fix it?  Spend more money.  If money fixes the problem, it's not a problem.

https://taskandpurpose.com/navys-f-35-strike-radars-already-date-new-report-says/

The committee does not want to stop buying F-35Cs, but instead wants to start also buying new sorts of warplanes.

“After billions of dollars have been spent on the F-35C, but before the first aircraft are ready to deploy, lawmakers are already looking at the next carrier-based aircraft,” said Bryan Clark, a former Navy strategist now at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments.

It gets much, much worse.

https://www.wearethemighty.com/top-gun-2-super-hornet

They F35 is not safe enough even for Maverick himself.

But a solution may be in sight.  Let's just go back to what we shoulda done in the first place:

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3687/now-the-head-of-the-usaf-is-jumping-on-the-f-22-production-re-start-bandwagon

Now, Congress is calling to look into restarting the F-22 production line, and even the USAF’s outgoing head honcho is jumping on the F-22 production re-start bandwagon.

General Mark Welsh stated the following at an Air Force Association event today:

“I don’t think it’s a wild idea, I mean the success of the F-22 and the capability of the airplane and the crews that fly it are pretty exceptional. I think it’s proven that the airplane is exactly what everybody hoped it would be… We’re using it in new and different ways and it’s been spectacularly successful and its potential is really, really remarkable. And so going back and looking and certainly raising the idea: Well, could you build more? It’s not a crazy idea.”

The F22 was cut back because it was so expensive.  Tooling (and maybe blueprints?) were destroyed.  It makes sense I guess; destroy that stuff so the Chinese can't steal it.  So restarting would be a huge undertaking.  But sadly, it may be our best option.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Parliament

[Dahobbs 17521]

Well, the range issues with the F35 aren't really an F35 problem, but rather revolve around our lack of stealthy support assets (e.g., stealth tankers to extend range). 

[SimonBolivar 10957]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Well, the range issues with the F35 aren't really an F35 problem, but rather revolve around our lack of stealthy support assets (e.g., stealth tankers to extend range). 

Sounds like a great excuse to drop billions of  tax dollars in R&D! 

[SquishMitten 10403]

Ooh. How bout stealth carriers, in space? Then the planes just drop through the atmosphere right over the enemy.

[Aqua Buddha 14581]

It's like they've told us for years now that even our newest bombers are out of date and we need newer ones.  Never mind the B-2 does basically everything and we're using it to bomb people in tents.....

[Parliament 14224]

1 hour ago, SquishMitten said:

Ooh. How bout stealth carriers, in space? Then the planes just drop through the atmosphere right over the enemy.

[Smax 3800]

jack of all trades master of none

[Crusher 127]

3 hours ago, SquishMitten said:

Ooh. How bout stealth carriers, in space? Then the planes just drop through the atmosphere right over the enemy.

We already have that...DUH!!!

 

[Born a Longhorn 13]

13 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

It's like they've told us for years now that even our newest bombers are out of date and we need newer ones.  Never mind the B-2 does basically everything and we're using it to bomb people in tents.....

No it doesn't, and no we don't...

[Aqua Buddha 14581]

1 hour ago, Born a Longhorn said:

No it doesn't, and no we don't...

Serious question but what does the B-2 not do that we need to do?

[LongestHorn 759]

23 hours ago, Parliament said:

The F22 was cut back because it was so expensive.  Tooling (and maybe blueprints?) were destroyed.  It makes sense I guess; destroy that stuff so the Chinese can't steal it.  So restarting would be a huge undertaking. 

Makes no sense to completely destroy the investmest.  We don't have a secure garage?

[Born a Longhorn 13]

4 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Serious question but what does the B-2 not do that we need to do?

Dynamic targeting of any kind. It doesn't have a targeting pod on it like the B-1, B-52, and F-15E, so it's really only good for flying a fully pre-planned mission. Add on that we only have 20 of them, and far fewer than that combat-ready at any given time, so they can't really fly sustained combat ops from a deployed location like a squadron of any other bombers would. They're pretty much only good for flying those long-duration missions from Missouri on night one, then they need a break. Not a flexible option at all in today's much more dynamic battlefield.

[Smax 3800]

33 minutes ago, Born a Longhorn said:

Dynamic targeting of any kind. It doesn't have a targeting pod on it like the B-1, B-52, and F-15E, so it's really only good for flying a fully pre-planned mission. Add on that we only have 20 of them, and far fewer than that combat-ready at any given time, so they can't really fly sustained combat ops from a deployed location like a squadron of any other bombers would. They're pretty much only good for flying those long-duration missions from Missouri on night one, then they need a break. Not a flexible option at all in today's much more dynamic battlefield.

 

sounds like a big ol waste of money to me

[Pato del Muerto 52484]

2 hours ago, Born a Longhorn said:

Dynamic targeting of any kind. It doesn't have a targeting pod on it like the B-1, B-52, and F-15E, so it's really only good for flying a fully pre-planned mission. Add on that we only have 20 of them, and far fewer than that combat-ready at any given time, so they can't really fly sustained combat ops from a deployed location like a squadron of any other bombers would. They're pretty much only good for flying those long-duration missions from Missouri on night one, then they need a break. Not a flexible option at all in today's much more dynamic battlefield.

So you are saying that for what the Spirit can’t do, we have 2 other bombers for that role already. 

[Parliament 14224]

Serious question but what does the B-2 not do that we need to do?

Sadly, it isn't as stealthy as it coulda been. Late in its development, they chickened out and traded a measure of stealthieness for the maneuverability to fly map-of-the-Earth. In short, they didn't trust stealth as it's only defense.

 

And yeah we don't need a multi-billion dollar stealth bomber to flatten tents, but next time we go to war with developed nation, we'll need a multi-billion dollar stealth bomber.

So you are saying that for what the Spirit can’t do, we have 2 other bombers for that role already. 

Yes, and they're aging too. It takes a long time to develop new military aircraft and we gotta look ahead a long ways.

 

Look, I dislike the military-industrial complex, but they don't get EVERYTHING wrong. Our big planes (bombers and transport) are very good. The F22 had teething problems, but it's very good.

 

The Shitbird would be a lot better if we didn't hafta have that stupid STOVL variant. That morphodite pos ruined the whole thing.

 

ETA

Our nuclear aircraft carriers are great also.

 

[TwiceHorn 31431]

I was in FW today and saw an F22 airborne for the first time.  Cool-looking bird.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

Here’s  a cool thing.  We repurposed this thing we did to overcome mountains in Afghanistan to have the air national guard in California have a drone that translates radios.  

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

Fighting fires hey!  

[Parliament 14224]

No way.  No way they didn't fly everything to somewhere there wasn't a Cat 4 hurricane happening.

Tyndall is home to 55 F-22 stealth fighters, which cost a dizzying $339 million each. Before the storm, the Air Force sent at least 33 of the fighters to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio.

Air Force officials have not disclosed the whereabouts of the remaining 22 planes, other than to say that a number of aircraft were left at the base because of maintenance or safety reasons.

An Air Force spokeswoman, Maj. Malinda Singleton, would not confirm that any of the aircraft left behind were F-22s.

But photos and video from the wreckage of the base showed the distinctive contours of the F-22’s squared tail fins and angled vertical stabilizers amid a jumble of rubble in the base’s largest building, Hangar 5. Another photo shows the distinctive jet in a smaller hangar that had its doors and a wall ripped off by wind.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/11/us/air-force-hurricane-michael-damage.html

[Parliament 14224]

ETA with a better article:

THE US Air Force’s Tyndall Air Base in Florida has taken a direct hit. Many of its ultra-advanced F-22 Raptor stealth fighters have been caught on the ground.

Exactly how many of the $475 million aircraft were damaged or destroyed by Hurricane Michael has not yet been revealed.

The United States Air Force could only afford to buy 187 operational examples of the 5th generation stealth fighter. Now, that number may have been significantly reduced.

We know 55 Raptors are based there.

Reportedly, 33 F-22s sought sanctuary at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio.

That leaves 22 of the $475 million warplanes unaccounted for.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/f22-raptors-damaged-destroyed-by-hurricane-michael/news-story/d89d7c18e1b3caf550238cbdd7a8a2ba

[Jkwellborn 6686]

They need an underground garage for expensive shit like that.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4974]

So they'll just get flooded?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13506]

Perhaps we should have transport planes that can move them if they are frequently unable to fly.    Or quickly hire a civilian transport plane to assist.    I assume the military doesn’t have or can’t have insurance.   Some careers are over if we potentially lost 100s of millions in aircraft.

[Parliament 14224]

$10.5B, if all 22 are lost, but it gets worse than that. 11% of the World's hands down, absolute BEST fighter jets are off of the roster.

We were already way too thin at that position and you can thank the F35 Shitbird for that. In the late aughts, Congress cut F22 production short, in favor of the F35, because...Congress.

[Pato del Muerto 52484]

Those things are supposed to be crazy good, to the point of defeating like 5-10 other planes by themselves in a dogfight. 

So how many do we really need?  Not the point, since we had them and left them vulnerable, I understand. But would losing 22 really affect our ability to have air superiority?

[Bozo_Casanova 26429]

34 minutes ago, Parliament said:

$10.5B, if all 22 are lost, but it gets worse than that. 11% of the World's hands down, absolute BEST fighter jets are off of the roster.

We were already way too thin at that position and you can thank the F35 Shitbird for that. In the late aughts, Congress cut F22 production short, in favor of the F35, because...Congress.

This hurts John Cornyn's feelings. 

[RPM 26315]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

But would losing 22 really affect our ability to have air superiority?

Losing roughly half of your top of the line fighters would make a huge dent if an air war broke out. Fortunately, that's not a threat at the moment.

[Upgrayedd 5810]

I’m sure whoever is in charge of the military will step up and take responsibility.

 

/cr 

[Parliament 14224]

23 minutes ago, RPM said:

Losing roughly half of your top of the line fighters would make a huge dent if an air war broke out. Fortunately, that's not a threat at the moment.

Eleven percent (187 were built), but still.  Add in the F35 is a hangar queen, and this is a big gap.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

51 minutes ago, RPM said:

Losing roughly half of your top of the line fighters would make a huge dent if an air war broke out. Fortunately, that's not a threat at the moment.

Until you opened your big mouth and clued in the enemy we were half down on our capability.... sheeeeesh........

[RPM 26315]

11 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Until you opened your big mouth and clued in the enemy we were half down on our capability.... sheeeeesh........

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 hours ago, RPM said:

NIIIIIICE !!  always loved those WWII posters.

[Jkwellborn 6686]

So they'll just get flooded?

I’d be willing to bet if you throw enough silica packets in there, you don’t have to worry about it.

[Wally Fairway 5539]

What they need to do is restart A-10 production, because they are badass, the military loves them, as do the pilots. You can probably buy a squadron of A-10's for the price of 1 or 2 F-35 shitbirds.

[Aqua Buddha 14581]

The Pentagon announced Thursday it is grounding its entire fleet of F-35s, just days after the first crash of an F-35B led investigators to suspect there is a widespread problem with the advanced fighter’s fuel tubes.

“The U.S. Services and international partners have temporarily suspended F-35 flight operations while the enterprise conducts a fleet-wide inspection of a fuel tube within the engine on all F-35 aircraft,” the F-35 Joint Program Office announced in a statement Thursday morning.

“If suspect fuel tubes are installed, the part will be removed and replaced. If known good fuel tubes are already installed, then those aircraft will be returned to flight status. Inspections are expected to be completed within the next 24 to 48 hours.”

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/10/11/dod-announces-global-grounding-of-all-f-35s/

[Aqua Buddha 14581]

6 hours ago, RPM said:

Losing roughly half of your top of the line fighters would make a huge dent if an air war broke out. Fortunately, that's not a threat at the moment.

 

8 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Those things are supposed to be crazy good, to the point of defeating like 5-10 other planes by themselves in a dogfight. 

So how many do we really need?  Not the point, since we had them and left them vulnerable, I understand. But would losing 22 really affect our ability to have air superiority?

If we could lose half our fleet and it doesn't impact national security, did we need them in the first place?

Edited October 15, 2018 by Aqua Buddha

[Parliament 14224]

 

25 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

 

If we could lose half our fleet and it doesn't impact national security, did we need them in the first place?

So we can just park them anywhere?

[Assman 1830]

Potentially losing 22 Raptors is a big deal.  Most national defense strategy experts already agree that 187 is not enough.  We've already lost 3 I believe to crashes, so losing another 22 would be borderline catastrophic.  However, I highly doubt all 22 left behind were damaged beyond repair. 

[Hook'Em0608 96]

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/10/15/air-force-hurricane-damage-to-tyndall-f-22s-less-than-we-feared-but-unknown-how-many-will-fly-again/

[Pato del Muerto 52484]

I wonder if they’ll low key scavenge parts off the really bad ones to repair others. 

And if those will become known as frankenraptors. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21864]

What if the hurricane was really a Chinese plot to destroy a significant portion of our F-22s

[Jkwellborn 6686]

I wonder if they’ll low key scavenge parts off the really bad ones to repair others. 
And if those will become known as frankenraptors. 

Do you want deceptions? Because that’s how you get deceptions.

[Parliament 14224]

^^^He means DECEPTICONS. Do you want Decepticons.

[Jkwellborn 6686]

You know, I was wondering why my phone kept changing that shit. By yeah thats how you get those.

[MadBurgerMaker 404]

On 6/15/2018 at 11:15 AM, Parliament said:

Tooling (and maybe blueprints?) were destroyed.  It makes sense I guess; destroy that stuff so the Chinese can't steal it.  So restarting would be a huge undertaking.  But sadly, it may be our best option.

The F-22 tooling wasn't destroyed.  It was saved (along with procedures, etc) specifically so that we could restart the line if necessary....and then some of it was apparently lost or something, at least as of 2016.  https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/raptor-resurrected-what-will-it-take-restart-f-22-fighter-15862

Edited October 17, 2018 by MadBurgerMaker

[MadBurgerMaker 404]

Speaking of the shitbird, did they ever figure out if it was an Israeli F-35 that the Syrians were shooting at when they smoked that Russian plane (lol what a clusterfuck)?

They've been using their brand new ones over there to bomb shit, so there was speculation, but I never saw anything other than "maybe."

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

On 10/16/2018 at 7:39 PM, MadBurgerMaker said:

The F-22 tooling wasn't destroyed.  It was saved (along with procedures, etc) specifically so that we could restart the line if necessary....and then some of it was apparently lost or something, at least as of 2016.  https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/raptor-resurrected-what-will-it-take-restart-f-22-fighter-15862

I would think an opportunity exists to greatly reduce those costs if Japan is actually willing to help foot the bill, and we are willing to share the air frame and F35 avionics. 

[Jkwellborn 6686]

I would think an opportunity exists to greatly reduce those costs if Japan is actually willing to help foot the bill, and we are willing to share the air frame and F35 avionics. 

You mean we have electronic stuff that’s not made in Japan or China?

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

What do you mean, Doc? All the best stuff is made in Japan.

[Parliament 14224]

On 10/16/2018 at 7:39 PM, MadBurgerMaker said:

The F-22 tooling wasn't destroyed.  It was saved (along with procedures, etc) specifically so that we could restart the line if necessary....and then some of it was apparently lost or something, at least as of 2016.  https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/raptor-resurrected-what-will-it-take-restart-f-22-fighter-15862

I stand corrected.  Thanks for the update.