Sovereign Citizen Thread

[RDCanecutter 26446]

On 11/23/2023 at 9:00 AM, Macanudo said:

Thanks for mansplaining Les Amis to a bunch of people who remember where GM Steakhouse and  Quackenbushes where.  Or those of us who watched movies at Dobie or shopped at the Gap on the drag.

It wasn't Les Amis, but for a while in the late 90s in Hyde Park there was a cafe that thought itself French. I was like, cool, you're French? Lemme get a Ricard. (Ricard, acquired taste, 90 proof, usually served in very small glass with ice cube.)

The bartender there would pour it into a wine glass, like a quadruple shot at least. 5 bucks. D'you member? I member.

[jimmyjazz 45960]

Are you talking about the little gelato shop just around the side of Hyde Park Bar & Grill?  I can't remember the name.  I think it's a cheese shop now.

[Biff Tannen 45690]

39 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Are you talking about the little gelato shop just around the side of Hyde Park Bar & Grill?  I can't remember the name.  I think it's a cheese shop now.

It was Dulce Vita for a long time and now it’s Uncle Nicky’s. Antonelli’s Cheese is in between. 

[Ted Lange 16108]

 

[Gatorubet 30240]

I don’t know, maybe put a unit in front and back of him while talking to him so he can’t speed off and start a car chase and a gunfight?

 

[TeeDubya 3362]

2 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

 

[Pato del Muerto 52501]

Couple of clues in there that make me assume he was a white guy

[Upgrayedd 5812]

3 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

 

School bus struck by what exactly?  The sovcit driving?  Hail of gunfire?

[atomheartbevo 89675]

2 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

I don’t know, maybe put a unit in front and back of him while talking to him so he can’t speed off and start a car chase and a gunfight?

 

He was a white guy is their reasoning.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

3 hours ago, Upgrayedd said:

School bus struck by what exactly?  The sovcit driving?  Hail of gunfire?

The school bus was struck by a bullet.  The news reports seemed to indicate that the bullet that struck the school bus passed through it and hit the woman that was injured.

[Francisco 2.0 32395]

Sov Cit in Colorado indicted, sentenced for 12 years for threatening to possess homes of judges in 3 counties

https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/gunnison-man-indicted-for-threatening-to-possess-homes-of-judges-in-3-counties/

 

Quote

A state grand jury indicted Brett Andrew Nelson for his alleged threats of extortion and retaliation against several judges, law enforcement officers, and prosecutors in Gunnison, Montrose, and Alamosa Counties.

Nelson is accused of making those threatens in an effort to influence the outcome of his court cases or to have them dismissed entirely. 

One judge described Nelson as "antagonistic" in the indictment. Another judge told investigators Nelson acted "increasingly aggressive" during hearings and used tactics associated with "sovereign citizens" or "constitutionalists" to challenge his court's authority. 

 

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The Federal Bureau of Investigation calls the sovereign citizen movement a form of domestic terrorism. The people who practice it don't recognize the authority of government agencies and are "extremists," per the FBI.

The Colorado Attorney General's Office waited until Nelson's arrest to announce the state's case. The indictment was handed down in April of last year. Nelson was arrested without incident Feb. 11 by personnel from the U.S. Marshals Service and Pueblo County Sheriff's Office. A spokesperson with the sheriff's office would not provided additional details about the specific location or circumstances of Nelson's arrest.

 

Quote

The state filed its case Nelson in Gunnison County District Court where he faces 24 counts. But the state will bring in a special prosecutor from the 7th Judicial District (based in Mesa County) because Nelson's offenses involved a number of people in Gunnison County legal system and creates a conflict of interest. 

According to the indictment, Nelson's alleged belligerence began in 2017. The judge presiding over a custody case between Nelson and the mother of his child stated that Nelson tried to call "his own court into session" during the hearing. 

Following that, the indictment details a stockpile of threats:

 

Spoiler

-Nelson asserted in an Alamosa County filing that his freedom was a fundamental right of his "estate" and warned that any action against his estate - such as arrest, court proceeding, or legal process - would be punishable by death.

-Nelson filed a claim of damages against the mother of his child in the amount of $202,000, accused her of "criminal kidnapping" and an "act of treason," and demanded she deliver him the child or be arrested.

-Nelson filed a claim of damages against the Gunnison County judge who presided over the child custody case for the same amount, demanded return of his child, and threatened to file a lien against her personal property. That judge purchased a security system for her home and the sheriff's office increased patrols in the area after Nelson called the home and spoke to the judge's husband.

-Nelson filed a default judgement against an Alamosa County judge claiming the judge owed him $425,000, filed a power of attorney document proclaiming his legal authority over the judge, filed a judgement document increasing the awarded damages to almost $7 million, then repeatedly messaged the judge's personal email address demanding payment. That judge warned his family members to call 9-1-1 if Nelson was ever seen, and provided them a photo of him. 

-Nelson filed a default judgement against a Colorado State Patrol trooper for $5,000; another against Alamosa County Sheriff's Office deputy for $650,000 and two other deputies for $36,000 each; another against a Gunnison County deputy for $75,000; and another against a corporal with Gunnison County Sheriff's Office for $95,000

--Nelson filed a default judgement against the deputy district attorney in 12th Judicial District who prosecuted traffic offenses against Nelson, in the amount of $275,000 for "unlawfully administering his estate, illegal detainment in a false court, abuse of her position, 'attack of the rights of We The People,' (and) acts of treason, humiliation and intimidation," as stated in indictment. Nelson filed a default judgement against a Gunnison County nurse for $185,000.

-Nelson filed a default judgement against a Gunnison County social worker who was involved in a child abuse investigation against Nelson for $45,000. 

-Nelson was charged with theft in 2017. He filed default judgements against the three alleged victims in the amounts of $325,000 and $550,000. 

-Nelson also filed a power of attorney notice against the deputy district attorney who prosecuted the theft case, plus the same notice against another deputy DA in the 7th who prosecuted two misdemeanor cases against Nelson, and yet another notice against the County Attorney for Alamosa County after he refused to accept Nelson's previous documents and filings.  

-Nelson also filed a demand for $135,000 from the then-editor editor of the Gunnison Country Times who reported on the theft case.

 

In all, Nelson pursued financial sums and property from four judges, one of whom presided over 10 criminal cases against Nelson. Collectively filing against them as a group, Nelson created filings proclaiming his legal authority over them, sometimes even naming himself a judge, and awarded himself half a million dollars from each judge.

He also pursued them individually with notices of lien published in local newspapers, fraudulent quitclaim deeds filed against their personal property, and demanded forfeiture of their assets if the fines he leveled against them were not paid within two weeks.

"Our life was hell for years, just years," said Gunnison County resident Greg Haase. "I'm still afraid of the guy."

Haase lived next door to Nelson for seven years. 

"It wasn't physical threats. It was always financial," Haase said. 

According to Haase, Nelson went by "Drew" and housed between four and 11 dogs - including two wolf hybrids - which often jumped out of Nelson's fenced yard and ran loose in the surrounding neighborhood. 

"They constantly escaped," Haase said. "Because we called the sheriff on his dogs, that's where we got on his list."  

In 2017, Haase's dog was attacked by several of Nelson's dogs. Haase heard his wife screaming as Nelson's dogs came onto their porch, per Haase's account. He managed to rescue his dog from the others. 

The county eventually pressed charges and ordered Nelson to pay the $1,200 vet bill for the Haase's dog. The bill has been unpaid, and Haase has further found himself the target of Nelson's wrath.  

"He wanted all this money from us, with interest accruing," Haase said. Nelson lost cases, Haase said, but was undeterred. 

"It was so regular. We started talking to other people in town, 'Oh, I have four of those (filings).'"

Haase said the homeowners association took over the eviction process for the 93-year-old homeowner who was renting to Nelson and got him out of the neighborhood.

Haase said he, his wife, his neighbors and many community members are relieved Nelson is behind bars. But they are not confident he will stay there, that his bond won't be reduced, or that they're done with the trauma inflicted by Nelson.

"We are doubtful that Drew Nelson will ultimately be held accountable for all of the harm he has caused," Haase said. "Our lawyer would say the system was not designed to deal with someone who abuses it like this. And if the legal system cannot protect judges against the hostile acts of a defendant, what hope can the rest of us have that the system will ultimately provide justice in our cases?    

"Will he do stuff from prison?"  

Nelson appeared in a Gunnison courtroom Tuesday for an advisement. He is scheduled for an arraignment at the end of March. 

The state's Special Prosecutions Unit will assist Mesa County's special prosecutor in the case.  

 

[Pato del Muerto 52501]

Just spitballing here but maybe the fact that authorities kept humoring him and letting him do this stuff was evidence to him that it was all actually legal and he just knew how to skirt the system. 
 

what does it mean that he filed judgements?  That he filed power of attorney?  How do you file bullshit?

[Bookman 4639]

6 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

How do you file bullshit?

At the district clerk's office. 

[Gatorubet 30240]

On 2/5/2024 at 8:26 PM, RDCanecutter said:

The bartender there would pour it into a wine glass, like a quadruple shot at least. 5 bucks. D'you member? I member.

This ain't one body's story. It's the story of us all. We got it mouth-to-mouth. So you got to listen it and 'member. 'Cause what you hears today you got to tell the birthed tomorrow.

[Goredho 17406]

If people identify as a sovereign citizen and not a US citizen, why don't we collect them up into a caravan and deport them southward?

[Francisco 2.0 32395]

https://jalopnik.com/watch-brain-geniuses-get-arrested-for-refusing-to-answe-1851466410

 

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The U.S. Border Patrol has sweeping powers to arrest and detain folks within 100 miles of the border (or, ya know, the entire state of Michigan.) They are the very last cops with whom you’d want to tussle, but that didn’t stop two brain geniuses from trying to use legalese magic to avoid one simple question; Are you a citizen?

 

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Luckily, the doofuses recorded the entire interaction for our delectation and delight. While these guys don’t spout Sovereign Citizen rhetoric, they do display similar lack of both understanding of U.S. laws and common sense. They sound like they are about one blow to the head away from claiming they are “traveling” not driving.

 

 

 

Spoiler

How much you want to bet that these two complain about open borders and “illegals” voting? 

My favorite part is when the fiery passenger claims to know both his Fifth Amendment and Sixth Amendment rights. Not sure how his right to a speedy and public criminal trial plays into this scenario, but it makes him sound more shady, not less. Also the Fifth Amendment protects Americans from self-incriminating testimony, not from answering any questions ever posed by the feds. Still, it’s nice to see the First Amendment getting a break from being misconstrued by the wearing-ugly-sunglasses-while-driving-a-truck crowd.

The moment he calls the female officer a “bitch” with a lot of pointing and yelling, it’s time for the “find out” moment to answer their “fucking around.” The scene ends badly, as you might imagine, with both men hauled out of the truck and officers ready with tasers. 

Both men are insistent that they don’t need to answer questions from federal law enforcement, but boys, that just ain’t true. Customs and Border Patrol agents are allowed to make warrantless arrests anywhere within 100 miles of the U.S. border, according to the U.S. Supreme Court. You don’t even have to be in your car, they can come into your home and yoink you out.

 

[Bullneck 19099]

On 12/26/2022 at 9:56 PM, cactusflinthead said:

r/amibeingdetained

I want to see them twist off about admiralty law. Tell us some stories.

From the subreddit. Seen in Houston 

 

 

 

 

[Dutchrudder 11139]

On 4/29/2024 at 10:49 AM, Goredho said:

If people identify as a sovereign citizen and not a US citizen, why don't we collect them up into a caravan and deport them southward?

Well, it's not like they are from Central America either. Antarctica is the only place I can think of that they would fit, and despite the long flight costs, as a taxpayer I would be in favor of it. 

[TwiceHorn 31483]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:05 PM, Bookman said:

At the district clerk's office. 

Im not quite sure how you "file a default judgment."

It might mean filing some kind of lawsuit, never bothering to serve it, and then taking a default by forgeswearing that it was served.

 

[BevoAbyss 2059]

Below is the sacred text for early wannabe Sov Cits.

20 years ago, a friend in Austin was raving about this book. So I read it.

Basically it is this: The internet and info tech and transportation industries (airlines, roads) span borders and nations and economies, creating possibility for true global individualists, liberated from laws and outmoded rules of nation-states. 

And you know what?

If most people were not so damn tribalist, patriotic, domineering, exploitative, religious, racist, misogynist, territorial, and warrior simians (etc etc etc) .... it could present a viable partial element of a planetary society. But getting in the way are all those Gods and flags and borders and bibles and guns and non-evolved simians.

But, the current Sovereign Citizens are mostly religious fanatics ready to be ruled by the Bible, not the laws of sinful humans--especially seculars and liberals.

Edited October 19 by BevoAbyss

[Bookman 4639]

6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Im not quite sure how you "file a default judgment."

It might mean filing some kind of lawsuit, never bothering to serve it, and then taking a default by forgeswearing that it was served.

 

You just file it. The clerks let you file anything. 

[Gatorubet 30240]

On 5/9/2024 at 5:44 PM, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

  Hide contents

Both men are insistent that they don’t need to answer questions from federal law enforcement, but boys, that just ain’t true. Customs and Border Patrol agents are allowed to make warrantless arrests anywhere within 100 miles of the U.S. border, according to the U.S. Supreme Court. You don’t even have to be in your car, they can come into your home and yoink you out.

 

I never knew VAPA had kids…

[RomaVicta 29908]

On 5/9/2024 at 7:44 PM, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://jalopnik.com/watch-brain-geniuses-get-arrested-for-refusing-to-answe-1851466410

 

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

How much you want to bet that these two complain about open borders and “illegals” voting? 

My favorite part is when the fiery passenger claims to know both his Fifth Amendment and Sixth Amendment rights. Not sure how his right to a speedy and public criminal trial plays into this scenario, but it makes him sound more shady, not less. Also the Fifth Amendment protects Americans from self-incriminating testimony, not from answering any questions ever posed by the feds. Still, it’s nice to see the First Amendment getting a break from being misconstrued by the wearing-ugly-sunglasses-while-driving-a-truck crowd.

The moment he calls the female officer a “bitch” with a lot of pointing and yelling, it’s time for the “find out” moment to answer their “fucking around.” The scene ends badly, as you might imagine, with both men hauled out of the truck and officers ready with tasers. 

Both men are insistent that they don’t need to answer questions from federal law enforcement, but boys, that just ain’t true. Customs and Border Patrol agents are allowed to make warrantless arrests anywhere within 100 miles of the U.S. border, according to the U.S. Supreme Court. You don’t even have to be in your car, they can come into your home and yoink you out.

 

[Biff Tannen 45690]

15 hours ago, Bookman said:

You just file it. The clerks let you file anything. 

You just write it off. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

It’s entertaining to watch the stupid sovereign citizens along with their interactions with police and later judges. However the more extreme types are labeled as domestic terrorists by the govt. The Venn diagram of Jan 6 violent offenders most likely fits completely within the sovereign citizen movement.

the one good news is that I guess that it’s not difficult for the FBI to infiltrate these morons at least at a macro level.

Edited October 20 by Nice Guy Eddie

[TheStoicPaisano 9922]

The giveaway is their pronunciation of “realtor”.

It’s like flash/thunder.

[SydneyCarton 48108]

20 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It’s entertaining to watch the stupid sovereign citizens along with their interactions with police and later judges. However the more extreme types are labeled as domestic terrorists by the govt. The Venn diagram of Jan 6 violent offenders most likely fits completely within the sovereign citizen movement.

the one good news is that I guess that it’s not difficult for the FBI to infiltrate these morons at least at a macro level.

Hahaha, Not even close. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

12 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Hahaha, Not even close. 

You don’t think QAnon isn’t a subset of sovereign citizen beliefs?  And if you read my post, I’m not saying the reverse  that everyone with sov cit beliefs or tendencies is actively trying to overthrow the govt.  I don’t believe that.

Edited October 21 by Nice Guy Eddie

[SydneyCarton 48108]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

You don’t think QAnon isn’t a subset of sovereign citizen beliefs?  And if you read my post, I’m not saying the reverse  that everyone with sov cit beliefs or tendencies is actively trying to overthrow the govt.  I don’t believe that.

When you say the Venn diagram fits, I assumed you meant that all Jan 6 rioters were sovereign citizen types, which is obviously false. Were there lots of those types present? Sure. Does qanon appeal to that segment, sure. But there were also a fuck ton of “normal” people there too. 

[RomaVicta 29908]

I think he meant it the other way around, Sidney. 

[Brisketexan 105147]

Have we reposted this lately?  One of my all time favorite laughs on the internet.  "I do not wish to create joinder with you."

 

[Gatorubet 30240]

4 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

When you say the Venn diagram fits, I assumed you meant that all Jan 6 rioters were sovereign citizen types, which is obviously false. Were there lots of those types present? Sure. Does qanon appeal to that segment, sure. But there were also a fuck ton of “normal” people there too. 

[SydneyCarton 48108]

4 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

I mean, it depends on how loose you want to get on what defines "normal." But a lot of realtors went, and went to jail, and then there was that one chick who instagramed her trip there on a private plane. 

[Gatorubet 30240]

“Normal MAGA” is admittedly a definitional wormhole.