NFL week 17 / Bills DB Damar Hamlin seriously injured, taken away via ambulance- MNF game suspended

[SurlyGator 865]

2 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Not to be pedantic, but in my world there is a very big difference between an AED and a cardiac monitor (probably Lifepak15 here).  They will both deliver a shock but that is all an AED will do, while the LP15 will do many many more things.  Either wa, yes, if they shocked him his heart was still in a shockable rhythm (VF or pulseless VT). That said, shocking someone 30 seconds into an episode of VF/VT is infinitely better for them and a positive outcome than shocking 3-4-5 minutes into it like it appears they did last night.

Easy there, "doc."  Let me see you go from standing on the sidelines seeing your player go down, get to him, assess what he needs, cut through his jersey, shoulder pads and undershirt - not to mention stabilize his head because at this point you don't know there isn't a C-spine component to this), remove the facemask, get the LifePak out there and light him up in 30 seconds.  From what we know at this point there is exactly ZERO reason to believe the medical staff did anything short of an amazing job handling the situation.

They train for this type of situation regularly.  They are the best of the best at their field just like the players are.

[C-Man 27230]

28 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

They will reschedule. Too much on the line from an NFL perspective. 

"We care, but not enough to allow it to hurt our profit"

-NFL

The NFL's profit will not be affected one iota if last night's game is never finished/rescheduled. Yes, it is an issue when you get to setting playoff seedings/pairings and all that as these are two of the top teams in the AFC. This is not as simple as adding a baseball or basketball game at the back end of the schedule -- or just not playing it like happens in baseball to at least a team or two every season. These NFL guys never play a game without at least 4-5 full days in between games. Unless they were firing it back up tonight or even tomorrow, they'd have to bump each of their regular-season finale games back a few days to account for it. I'd say Buffalo's season-ending game next weekend is in jeopardy as well at this point. In other words, trying to resume this game is a logistical nightmare and it only gets more difficult if Hamlin passes away or is seriously/permanently disabled moving forward.

[Beau Vine 54230]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Are you a wizard?

No, I just have poor hygiene.

[Herbie Hancock 7348]

Easy there, "doc."  Let me see you go from standing on the sidelines seeing your player go down, get to him, assess what he needs, cut through his jersey, shoulder pads and undershirt - not to mention stabilize his head because at this point you don't know there isn't a C-spine component to this), remove the facemask, get the LifePak out there and light him up in 30 seconds.  From what we know at this point there is exactly ZERO reason to believe the medical staff did anything short of an amazing job handling the situation.
They train for this type of situation regularly.  They are the best of the best at their field just like the players are.

Not a doc. I do what they do. Exactly what they do. I have the nfl credentials tag to prove it. What is it you do for a living?

[Droopy 2626]

3 minutes ago, SurlyGator said:

Easy there, "doc."  Let me see you go from standing on the sidelines seeing your player go down, get to him, assess what he needs, cut through his jersey, shoulder pads and undershirt - not to mention stabilize his head because at this point you don't know there isn't a C-spine component to this), remove the facemask, get the LifePak out there and light him up in 30 seconds.  From what we know at this point there is exactly ZERO reason to believe the medical staff did anything short of an amazing job handling the situation.

They train for this type of situation regularly.  They are the best of the best at their field just like the players are.

 

1 minute ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Not a doc. I do what they do. Exactly what they do. I have the nfl credentials tag to prove it. What is it you do for a living?

[Pato del Muerto 52501]

4 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

So that medic last night did 9K+ compressions on him before they loaded him in the ambulance... WOW...

They tend to stop cpr once the heartbeat returns. 

[Herbie Hancock 7348]

Did you see the Pronger event that was posted last night? I don't remember what exactly happened to Rich Peverly but they had to zap his ass back to life. It was a lot like last night. One minute the crowd is roaring and it's game on full blast. The next second it's man down and you can hear a pin drop. I wondered about the response time in those events. 

I do not know what a Pronger is, but I’ve spoken on several occasions with Dave Zeis (Stars trainer that shocked Beverley).

[SurlyGator 865]

2 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Not a doc. I do what they do. Exactly what they do. I have the nfl credentials tag to prove it. What is it you do for a living?

Precisely why the "doc" was in quotations.  I work for an ICD manufacturer now, but in my former life I was an ATC, so I did exactly that.  No need to start swinging your credentials around.

[Carl Spackler 3483]

54 minutes ago, MachoMan said:

Hold the phone! You are telling me that people can get hurt playing football?!?!?!? 

Skip?

[Prepuce of Doom 21074]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

It’s amazing to see how quickly we turn to attacking each other during an event that should be so unifying.

We are completely fucked as a society.

Are you threatening me? 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

2 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

I do not know what a Pronger is, but I’ve spoken on several occasions with Dave Zeis (Stars trainer that shocked Beverley).

Chris Pronger 

https://youtu.be/4S1Dfs8hgR4

 

 

[Vic Mackey 47039]

I hate Skip (and Cowherd) to no end, but I don’t understand the level of outrage about that tweet. It’s possible to be concerned about a player’s health and simultaneously ponder the ramifications of a postponement or cancellation on the NFL playoffs, especially since sports reporting is his profession. Should he have known better than asking it on Twitter while the dude is still on the turf? Probably. But he did include a comment about the immediate well being of Hamlin being a priority in that same tweet. 

I agree. Plenty of people had the same thoughts as Skip but wouldn't say it in public like he did. At some point, people will start to wonder what will be done with this game result since this wasn't just some throwaway game that meant nothing. There was division and seeding implications. But it's his reputation that made people react to his tweet. K

[C-Man 27230]

10 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Did you see the Pronger event that was posted last night? I don't remember what exactly happened to Rich Peverly but they had to zap his ass back to life. It was a lot like last night. One minute the crowd is roaring and it's game on full blast. The next second it's man down and you can hear a pin drop. I wondered about the response time in those events. 

 

That tough MF'er asked how much time was left in the period and wanted to go back into the game, apparently.

[Zeus 6025]

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

They tend to stop cpr once the heartbeat returns. 

Pulse but no breathing is what I've seen.

Super sad but he's probably gone. Lack of oxygen to the brain for 10m is not going to give a good outcome.

My guess is 1 in a 100,000 chance hit to the sternum at the exact wrong time. Or underlying heart condition undiagnosed and 1 in 10,000 chance hit at the exact wrong time.

CNN guy diagnosed it in an hour

[Herbie Hancock 7348]

2 minutes ago, SurlyGator said:

Precisely why the "doc" was in quotations.  I work for an ICD manufacturer now, but in my former life I was an ATC, so I did exactly that.  No need to start swinging your credentials around.

My penis size is average to possibly slightly above average, so the only thing I have that actually “swings” is my credentials.  
 

If you have ever done what I do, then you would know that this profession has plenty of shitbags, and even good ones can have a bad moment myself included. Never said these guys were bad people, but they absolutely did not perform as well as they could or should have. I’ve already been part of two separate Teams meetings this morning (fuck you microsoft) over this and have at least one more on the menu. This did not go nearly as well as it should have. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

9 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

Are you threatening me? 

[DanTheHorn 4925]

55 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Yeah, in re-reading Skip's initial tweet, I didn't think it was nearly as bad as I first thought. I almost thought he'd edited it to include the "seems irrelevant now" fragment. Let's be honest -- he's put far worse takes than that out there but Skip is a shithead so I'm kind of OK with any scorn that comes his way at this point.

Here is the thing with Skip's tweet based on my perspective. If he believes what he is saying is so irrelevant at the time then there is no need to say it. Having listened to Skip when he was on The Ticket in Dallas I found that he likes to hedge his bets. So he knows he is going to say something that is bullshit so he always follows it up with a C.Y.A. statement. Unlike others I don't think he reversed his thoughts. He was just Skip in his purest form.

[PittsburghTiger 6187]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

lolassclown:

 

No, you are NOT "still shook". You, are an actor.

No, you don't care about offending anyone.

Jagoff.

"tweet us your emotions". Fuck you. People's emotions to what happened to Hamlin don't really matter. Your asshole hot takes however, do matter, and deservedly will be ridiculed.

[Vic Mackey 47039]

No, you are NOT "still shook". You, are an actor.
No, you don't care about offending anyone.
Jagoff.
"tweet us your emotions". Fuck you. People's emotions to what happened to Hamlin don't really matter. Your asshole hot takes however, do matter, and deservedly will be ridiculed.

Why do people still get so enraged by Skip? Not you personally, just in general. Hell, he's become the 2nd biggest story in this thing which is sad. Who the hell cares what Skip says. Or his apologies. Means zero.

The story is about the young man fighting for his life, not what Skip says. Yet that's all I keep seeing.

[Zeus 6025]

10 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

No, you are NOT "still shook". You, are an actor.

No, you don't care about offending anyone.

Jagoff.

"tweet us your emotions". Fuck you. People's emotions to what happened to Hamlin don't really matter. Your asshole hot takes however, do matter, and deservedly will be ridiculed.

SAY THAT TO MY FACE

[SquishMitten 10408]

17 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

My penis size is average to possibly slightly above average, so the only thing I have that actually “swings” is my credentials.  
 

If you have ever done what I do, then you would know that this profession has plenty of shitbags, and even good ones can have a bad moment myself included. Never said these guys were bad people, but they absolutely did not perform as well as they could or should have. I’ve already been part of two separate Teams meetings this morning (fuck you microsoft) over this and have at least one more on the menu. This did not go nearly as well as it should have. 

Where is the info coming from on it not being handled as well as it could have? Are there videos showing exactly how long it was until they started compressions/air/defibrillator/whatever? Or statements from someone reliable? I haven’t seen anything other than speculation on the timeline

[PittsburghTiger 6187]

2 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Why do people still get so enraged by Skip? Not you personally, just in general. Hell, he's become the 2nd biggest story in this thing which is sad. Who the hell cares what Skip says. Or his apologies. Means zero.

The story is about the young man fighting for his life, not what Skip says. Yet that's all I keep seeing.

I've never watched his show. I based my comment off that two-minute, or so, clip. I have seen some other things he has said. He's an ass. I'm not really concerned about what he has to say, as I am not concerned about what anyone on ESPN, or CBS Sports, has to say. Talk shows can be the worst, especially sports talk shows.

They are no better than the shit that gets put on the 24-news stations that need to fill air. In the end, it's just repetitive noise.

And I think these talk shows, coupled with social media, bring out the worst in people.

That being said, I do agree with many others here that his Tweet was not the worst thing in the world. Whomever said that he should have rearranged his words and it would have come out better, I agree with that. There is a time and place for his point about the game. While Damar was laying on the field, or in the ambulance, was not the time.

2 minutes ago, Zeus said:

SAY THAT TO MY FACE

I don't think I'd have a problem doing that.🤣

[WBT 20579]

7 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Why do people still get so enraged by Skip? Not you personally, just in general. Hell, he's become the 2nd biggest story in this thing which is sad. Who the hell cares what Skip says. Or his apologies. Means zero.

Yeah, just seems like people aren't comfortable talking about life or death and latch onto any distraction.  Like last night SVP and others on ESPN kept going on about how the teams were originally told there would be a 5 minute warmup before a restart and they thought the coaches had to refuse and take the teams to the locker room.  Ultimately, who really gives a shit?

[Hate 20108]

I agree. Plenty of people had the same thoughts as Skip but wouldn't say it in public like he did. At some point, people will start to wonder what will be done with this game result since this wasn't just some throwaway game that meant nothing. There was division and seeding implications. But it's his reputation that made people react to his tweet. K

****Hamlin’s health is paramount and the only thing that matters****

As irrelevant as it is against the background of this man’s health, there are also a lot of fantasy implications for this game. That was the last game of many fantasy league’s season…effectively the “FF Super Bowl” week and that game was not inconsequential to that with so many star players being in the mix.

****not callously lobbying for anything…just another topic to be discussed in the wake of this potential tragedy since FF is such a big deal for the NFL****

[TheBryMan81 2513]

3 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

so fucking tiresome going to twitter for updates only to find a bunch of angry lunatics claiming that these cardiac events never happened before the vaccine (hank gathers? reggie lewis? countless other pre-internet athletes?). a guy just had his heart stop in front of all his closest friends and they want to use this to prop up baseless conspiracy theories. shit is gross.

There was a study published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine looking at incidence and etiology of SCD (Sudden Cardiac Death) in young American athletes (ranging from middle school to young professionals). From 2014-2018, there were over 300 cases of SCD, almost half of which were successfully resuscitated and survived. I'm pretty sure 2018 was pre-vaccine.

[C-Man 27230]

21 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Pulse but no breathing is what I've seen.

Super sad but he's probably gone. Lack of oxygen to the brain for 10m is not going to give a good outcome.

My guess is 1 in a 100,000 chance hit to the sternum at the exact wrong time. Or underlying heart condition undiagnosed and 1 in 10,000 chance hit at the exact wrong time.

CNN guy diagnosed it in an hour

Yeah, that's kind of where I am on this. I'm hoping for a positive outcome for Hamlin because it sounds like he's a fantastic kid but I'm no longer super optimistic.

I was only half paying attention to the game and only noticed what was going on at about the second or third TV break when they came back from commercials to an ambulance on the field. I immediately rolled it back to watch, assuming it was a spinal deal. As soon as I saw the play (no apparent neck injury) and noticed he got back up before falling flat on his back, I figured it was cardiac. It was a pretty hard hit and I remembered stories of kids getting hit by screaming line drives in baseball or slap shots in hockey that got hit right in the chest and suffered cardiac events. Those usually didn't have good outcomes. Of course I had no idea it was called "Commotio cordis" until last night once it was brought up later in this very thread.

[Pato del Muerto 52501]

Skip ordered his thoughts purposefully to first elicit the emotional reaction, and then give himself some cover for it. 

[Cairn Horn88 8264]

7 minutes ago, Zeus said:

SAY THAT TO MY FACE

[C-Man 27230]

5 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

I've never watched his show. I based my comment off that two-minute, or so, clip. I have seen some other things he has said. He's an ass. I'm not really concerned about what he has to say, as I am not concerned about what anyone on ESPN, or CBS Sports, has to say. Talk shows can be the worst, especially sports talk shows.

They are no better than the shit that gets put on the 24-news stations that need to fill air. In the end, it's just repetitive noise.

And I think these talk shows, coupled with social media, bring out the worst in people.

That being said, I do agree with many others here that his Tweet was not the worst thing in the world. Whomever said that he should have rearranged his words and it would have come out better, I agree with that. There is a time and place for his point about the game. While Damar was laying on the field, or in the ambulance, was not the time.

I don't think I'd have a problem doing that.🤣

Those shows are designed around two (or more) people arguing with each other for an hour. There have been plenty of reports of producers telling each host to take a different side, regardless whether they believe that side or not. Bravo reality TV shows think "sports talk" TV shows are gutter trash.

[ztejas 43454]

39 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I'd say Buffalo's season-ending game next weekend is in jeopardy as well at this point.

Lol what? This isn't a shitty Vriginia team. Buffalo will play their final game. 

[naija 2854]

1 hour ago, Herbie Hancock said:

From watching the video I can tell you they didn’t recognize he was in cardiac arrest quickly enough. I’m not sure what in the hell they were thinking, but there was a multitude of people, paramedics included, surrounding him that all missed it and I am absolutely baffled how. If they had recognized it as soon as they should have he most likely would have been awake and talking by the time they left the field. Early defibrillation and early, quality compressions are the difference in a positive or negative outcome. The heart will only fibrillate for a few minutes until the rhythm deteriorates into asystole. Key is converting VFib into an organized rhythm before it can deteriorate into asystole.

this is MMQB-ing at its finest.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[A-Tex Devil 2446]

They should just cancel the game. It isn’t going to effect whether teams do or do not make playoffs outside some crazy opponent’s winning percentage tiebreaker among the 8-8 teams, and then, who cares?   If I am correct it’s a matter of whether Ravens/Bengals win division (only if Bengals lost), and then the 1/2 seeds between Chiefs and Bills and 2/3 seeds among Chiefs Bills and Bengals.  
 

Call it a tie (which still wins the division for the Bengals, I believe) and move on and show the world that the NFL gets it.  I dare the Ravens or Chiefs and their fans to complain.  

[Eastwood 4394]

Our football team in high school played “open chest” for a short while. If you weren’t covering your chest, someone would punch you directly in the sternum while yelling “open chest!” It lasted all of a couple of days before a coach yelled at us to stop doing that shit because you could stop someone’s heart that way. We thought he was full of shit, but stopped anyway because running sprint laps sucks. 
 

Coach was right, it turns out. The older I get, the more I realize it’s a miracle any of us make it to adulthood. 

[SurlyGator 865]

32 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

My penis size is average to possibly slightly above average, so the only thing I have that actually “swings” is my credentials.  
 

If you have ever done what I do, then you would know that this profession has plenty of shitbags, and even good ones can have a bad moment myself included. Never said these guys were bad people, but they absolutely did not perform as well as they could or should have. I’ve already been part of two separate Teams meetings this morning (fuck you microsoft) over this and have at least one more on the menu. This did not go nearly as well as it should have. 

Well, you haven't said what you do, but I would assume based on your comments that you are EMS and not part of an NFL sports medicine staff.  Shitbags in EMS, no doubt, but bringing up potential medical negligence knowing what we know now is a bold strategy, Cotton.

[Herbie Hancock 7348]

7 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Where is the info coming from on it not being handled as well as it could have? Are there videos showing exactly how long it was until they started compressions/air/defibrillator/whatever? Or statements from someone reliable? I haven’t seen anything other than speculation on the timeline

There is no info, it is my opinion based on the video I watched last night. They had him on the backboard and were about to put him on the stretcher, then they put him back on the ground and began compressions. I can’t find any unedited, raw video of the event now so I may be wildly misremembering. If anyone here is better at the google machine than I am and can prove/disprove what I saw I would be grateful. 

[WBT 20579]

1 minute ago, Eastwood said:

Our football team in high school played “open chest” for a short while. If you weren’t covering your chest, someone would punch you directly in the sternum while yelling “open chest!” It lasted all of a couple of days before a coach yelled at us to stop doing that shit because you could stop someone’s heart that way. We thought he was full of shit, but stopped anyway because running sprint laps sucks. 
 

Coach was right, it turns out. The older I get, the more I realize it’s a miracle any of us make it to adulthood. 

[Trey3216 15346]

HIt super close to home for me last night because I damn near killed a kid when we were 12 on the baseball field with a similar injury.  He was pitching, I had been in a slump, grooved fastball hit him square in the chest, but thankfully just to the right of the sternum.   Hit him so hard he had to get stitches where it lacerated on one of his ribs.  12 year old me kept running until the umpire called timeout.  Sat there on 3rd base crying my eyes out as they loaded the kid on the ambulance.   He never played sports again, but he never fully lost his pulse.   I feel bad about it now, but there’s not a damn thing I could do differently then or now.   

Edited January 3, 2023 by Trey3216

[Had Enough 2082]

If I’m being honest, I’m damn curious how my DraftKings best ball tourney plays out due to last nights event. I’m done but the winner takes home $5k, 2nd place $1k. Fantasy players worldwide await additional information.

I haven’t read the fine print on the rules, but the potential implications of what they do with this game is interesting. I even wonder if they’d postpone all games a week and allow this one to be played next week then the final week the next weekend.



Good on everybody coming together in support on this situation. Maybe just try to do it a little more often. Before a potential tragedy. That’s a note to myself.

There will be more good come of it too even if his life is no more or more complicated than before. I suspect there will be others like has been stated here that will renew/refresh/obtain their CPR trainings and certifications. Maybe we should all consider it. Although I’d probably do compressions on some of you punks at 3 inches rather than 2.4.

[Herbie Hancock 7348]

Well, you haven't said what you do, but I would assume based on your comments that you are EMS and not part of an NFL sports medicine staff.  Shitbags in EMS, no doubt, but bringing up potential medical negligence knowing what we know now is a bold strategy, Cotton.

Currently I’m doing the drywall at the new McDonald’s up in Las Colinas. But I have a lead on a potential front desk clerk position working nights at the Baymont Inn on Estes Pkwy in Longview.

[4th&Five 41557]

 

[Uncle Nate 2097]

10 minutes ago, WBT said:

So the five point palm exploding heart technique is actually Commotio Cortis?

The more you know...

[ConchoPearlNecklace 79]

Sometime today they should start trying to wean him off of sedation. If they can start doing that and he doesn’t start having seizures it will be very encouraging. If he starts seizing that is indicative of serious injury to the brain. At that point they will do a cerebral blood flow scan to evaluate perfusion or what is most likely a lack of perfusion….

Possibly. Depends on a lot of things. For example, whether or not he was put on a hypothermia protocol, etc.

[Deej 76797]

4 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

So the five point palm exploding heart technique is actually Commotio Cortis?

The more you know...

Tarantino steals everything. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

darren rovell seems like a piece of shit.

Seems?  This has been common knowledge for years. Rovell and Bayless are terrible people. I really wish we’d stop talking about them or linking their name here. 

[naija 2854]

58 minutes ago, SurlyGator said:

Easy there, "doc."  Let me see you go from standing on the sidelines seeing your player go down, get to him, assess what he needs, cut through his jersey, shoulder pads and undershirt - not to mention stabilize his head because at this point you don't know there isn't a C-spine component to this), remove the facemask, get the LifePak out there and light him up in 30 seconds.  From what we know at this point there is exactly ZERO reason to believe the medical staff did anything short of an amazing job handling the situation.

They train for this type of situation regularly.  They are the best of the best at their field just like the players are.

For perspective on this 30 seconds business, the best median time to defibrillation for In-Hospital cardiac arrest you can find is about 1 minute.  That's from a pool of a large amount of hospitals. When some quite renowned hospitals have looked at their data, some find it is actually 2+ minutes. That's in the hospital. That large pool study found that up to 40% of patients in an ICU, go over 2 minutes before being defibrillated. Those are scenarios where presumably patients are hooked up to continuous monitoring with alarms, and have the presence of both staff and equipment nearby to do the defibrillation. 

Coming down hard on the people that were there last night and did what they could, simply from saying you view a clip, strikes me as unnecessary. They are professionals. I am sure there will be a debrief and a root cause analysis if warranted, and improvements will be made. Until then, a little grace for the people in the line of fire.

[Hermanator 7050]

2 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

It’s amazing to see how quickly we turn to attacking each other during an event that should be so unifying.

We are completely fucked as a society.

Did you sleep through 2020? 

It's always been this way. It's in the DNA. The species evolved to be competitive in every way for limited resources. Now that technology is getting closer to making that a non issue it doesn't mean we don't have the same genetic wiring. Some people can use their prefrontal cortex region to override their amygdala on these matters but the vast majority of people do not. Ironically it's the evolved survival instincts that will be the cause of our downfall as a species. 

About Skip, who gives a shit if he wonders about the rest of the season? That isn't mutually exclusive with caring about this guy surviving. You can do both. This binary bullshit in society is so damn fatiguing. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Hermanator

[DanTheHorn 4925]

Just now, Hermanator said:

Did you sleep through 2020? 

It's always been this way. It's in the DNA. The species evolved to be competitive in every way for limited resources. Now that technology is getting closer to making that a non issue it doesn't mean we don't have the same genetic wiring. Some people can use their frontal cortex region to override their amygdala on these matters but the vast majority of people do not. Ironically it's the evolved survival instincts that will be the cause of our downfall as a species. 

About Skip, who gives a shit if he wonders about the rest of the season? That isn't mutually exclusive with caring about this guy surviving. You can do both. This binary bullshit in society is so damn fatiguing. 

I think the problem was most people were still just wondering if the player was going to make it or not. Skip even uses ... to separate his thoughts between hey the game has to keep going after it has been suspended since it means so much and oh I almost forgot what I am saying seems irrelevant right now.

Grammarly: "What is an ellipsis? An ellipsis is a punctuation mark of three dots (. . .) that shows an omission of words, represents a pause, or suggests there's something left unsaid."

[Trey3216 15346]

8 minutes ago, naija said:

For perspective on this 30 seconds business, the best median time to defibrillation for In-Hospital cardiac arrest you can find is about 1 minute.  That's from a pool of a large amount of hospitals. When some quite renowned hospitals have looked at their data, some find it is actually 2+ minutes. That's in the hospital. That large pool study found that up to 40% of patients in an ICU, go over 2 minutes before being defibrillated. Those are scenarios where presumably patients are hooked up to continuous monitoring with alarms, and have the presence of both staff and equipment nearby to do the defibrillation. 

Coming down hard on the people that were there last night and did what they could, simply from saying you view a clip, strikes me as unnecessary. They are professionals. I am sure there will be a debrief and a root cause analysis if warranted, and improvements will be made. Until then, a little grace for the people in the line of fire.

Especially someone that supposedly has NFL credentials in this area.  His online testimony could be perceived as admissible.   

[Hermanator 7050]

1 hour ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Not a doc. I do what they do. Exactly what they do. I have the nfl credentials tag to prove it. What is it you do for a living?

 

1 hour ago, Herbie Hancock said:

I do not know what a Pronger is