NFL week 17 / Bills DB Damar Hamlin seriously injured, taken away via ambulance- MNF game suspended

[SHOOTER12 8800]

26 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Currently I’m doing the drywall at the new McDonald’s up in Las Colinas. But I have a lead on a potential front desk clerk position working nights at the Baymont Inn on Estes Pkwy in Longview.

You're a fucking liar and we all know it.  Hell the whole world knows you're a famous musician.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Herbie Hancock said:

My penis size is average to possibly slightly above average, so the only thing I have that actually “swings” is my credentials.  
 

If you have ever done what I do, then you would know that this profession has plenty of shitbags, and even good ones can have a bad moment myself included. Never said these guys were bad people, but they absolutely did not perform as well as they could or should have. I’ve already been part of two separate Teams meetings this morning (fuck you microsoft) over this and have at least one more on the menu. This did not go nearly as well as it should have. 

I would like to know more. Was their reaction time to properly assess / diagnose / address the cardiac arrest really slow?

[Hermanator 7036]

3 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

I think the problem was most people were still just wondering if the player was going to make it or not. Skip even uses ... to separate his thoughts between hey the game has to keep going after it has been suspended since it means so much and oh I almost forgot what I am saying seems irrelevant right now.

Grammarly: "What is an ellipsis? An ellipsis is a punctuation mark of three dots (. . .) that shows an omission of words, represents a pause, or suggests there's something left unsaid."

And why should that matter? Skip is a sports talking head with zero connection to this man and zero connection to the Buffalo bills. If the bills owner had done that, or anyone else connected with the organization, then it would have been a problem. 

Getting all emotional and indignant about some sports journalist putting that tweet out as if it means he doesn't give a shit if the guy lives or not is pure stupidity. He's not connected to the situation so he can both care about the young man and still wonder what that's going to do to the season. All the teeth gnashing and whining is so damn annoying and fake as shit. 

[Shaggy3.0 1695]

37 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

Our football team in high school played “open chest” for a short while. If you weren’t covering your chest, someone would punch you directly in the sternum while yelling “open chest!” It lasted all of a couple of days before a coach yelled at us to stop doing that shit because you could stop someone’s heart that way. We thought he was full of shit, but stopped anyway because running sprint laps sucks. 
 

Coach was right, it turns out. The older I get, the more I realize it’s a miracle any of us make it to adulthood. 

Teammate?  And yes, we played open chest without Internet or TikTok challenge stupid influences.  We were just stupid.

[SurlyGator 865]

11 minutes ago, naija said:

For perspective on this 30 seconds business, the best median time to defibrillation for In-Hospital cardiac arrest you can find is about 1 minute.  That's from a pool of a large amount of hospitals. When some quite renowned hospitals have looked at their data, some find it is actually 2+ minutes. That's in the hospital. That large pool study found that up to 40% of patients in an ICU, go over 2 minutes before being defibrillated. Those are scenarios where presumably patients are hooked up to continuous monitoring with alarms, and have the presence of both staff and equipment nearby to do the defibrillation. 

Coming down hard on the people that were there last night and did what they could, simply from saying you view a clip, strikes me as unnecessary. They are professionals. I am sure there will be a debrief and a root cause analysis if warranted, and improvements will be made. Until then, a little grace for the people in the line of fire.

Valuable addition to the discussion (wait, is that allowed on Surly?).  Keep in mind that ESPN did a really good job of NOT showing what was happening with the medical team, as well they should.  All we see is the first 20-ish seconds where there is clear alarm and radio communications taking place to get the needed equipment en route.  Athletic Trainers essentially must assume a cervical spine injury as a possible component in situations like this, so they need to stabilize the head and neck and remove the facemask before even an ABC (airway, breathing, circulation) assessment can truly be performed.  We have no clue how much time passed before CPR was initiated or how long it lasted.  It is also possible that they cardioverted him temporarily, and he went back into VT or VF precipitating the need to drop the gurney back down and resumption of CPR.

We don't know a heck of a lot more than we actually know right now, and deservedly so.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

No CR but this shithead makes skip look like a choir boy.

[stork642 4498]

1 hour ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Not a doc. I do what they do. Exactly what they do. I have the nfl credentials tag to prove it. What is it you do for a living?

Great now Greenspoint is going to post his NFL(nurse financially lit) credentials (paystubs).   

Edited January 3, 2023 by stork642

[Skipper 6133]

36 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

There is no info, it is my opinion based on the video I watched last night. They had him on the backboard and were about to put him on the stretcher, then they put him back on the ground and began compressions. I can’t find any unedited, raw video of the event now so I may be wildly misremembering. If anyone here is better at the google machine than I am and can prove/disprove what I saw I would be grateful. 

If you are on sidelines of games, what should they have done differently i?  Given (i) not necessarily probable any decision maker had a perfect view of the direct hit to sternum and (ii) I would think the clear/reasonable assumption with an unconscious football player on the field is brain/head/neck and not cardiac, what is the protocol that would have led to them cutting shoulder pads/starting CPR/AED sooner?  Are they supposed to immediately check pulse if a player is non-responsive?  

[TheBryMan81 2509]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

So that medic last night did 9K+ compressions on him before they loaded him in the ambulance... WOW...

With a team of people, you should switch off of compressions with someone else every 2 minutes or so

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

2 hours ago, 927 E. 41st said:

Maybe now would be a good time to just forgive Bayless and the other guy that made the stupid tweets.

Don’t tell us what to do. 

[DanTheHorn 4922]

12 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Getting all emotional and indignant about some sports journalist putting that tweet out as if it means he doesn't give a shit if the guy lives or not is pure stupidity. He's not connected to the situation so he can both care about the young man and still wonder what that's going to do to the season. All the teeth gnashing and whining is so damn annoying and fake as shit. 

If you think it was just about the person that got hurt then you are as clueless as Skip. Also, if you think Skip does things because he is a sports journalist then you have not been paying attention.

[SurlyGator 865]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

So that medic last night did 9K+ compressions on him before they loaded him in the ambulance... WOW...

Has no one called Beau's math skills into question yet?

[HouTex 1866]

Hoping for the best for the young man.  Lucky for Isiah Robertson that he didn’t have a problem after Campbell’s hit.

 

[4th&Five 41525]

 

[Macanudo 12976]

1 hour ago, Trey3216 said:

HIt super close to home for me last night because I damn near killed a kid when we were 12 on the baseball field with a similar injury.  He was pitching, I had been in a slump, grooved fastball hit him square in the chest, but thankfully just to the right of the sternum.   Hit him so hard he had to get stitches where it lacerated on one of his ribs.  12 year old me kept running until the umpire called timeout.  Sat there on 3rd base crying my eyes out as they loaded the kid on the ambulance.   He never played sports again, but he never fully lost his pulse.   I feel bad about it now, but there’s not a damn thing I could do differently then or now.   

Skip Bayless thinks you were crying because you didn't get credit for a in the park home run.

[Hermanator 7036]

15 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

If you think it was just about the person that got hurt then you are as clueless as Skip. Also, if you think Skip does things because he is a sports journalist then you have not been paying attention.

My point doesn't have anything to do with Skip. If SVP had tweeted the same people would still act like that. My point is wanting the guy to survive and wondering what happens with not playing this game and having 2 teams with 16 games played after next week are not mutually exclusive. And it shouldn't be an issue to get all indignant over no matter if Skip said it, SVP, or you or me. It only matters if people connected to him and that organization publicly do it. That would be callous and tone deaf because they're personally connected to the situation. The rest of us are not. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Hermanator

[Herbie Hancock 7345]

 

27 minutes ago, Skipper said:

If you are on sidelines of games, what should they have done differently i?  Given (i) not necessarily probable any decision maker had a perfect view of the direct hit to sternum and (ii) I would think the clear/reasonable assumption with an unconscious football player on the field is brain/head/neck and not cardiac, what is the protocol that would have led to them cutting shoulder pads/starting CPR/AED sooner?  Are they supposed to immediately check pulse if a player is non-responsive?  

 

My initial thoughts from seeing someone collapse like that are either cardiac arrest or internal decaptitation/spinal injury. Either one would necessitate the immediate check for a pulse upon patient contact before doing anything else. I’ve already stated above what I think was done wrong, or maybe not even done wrong but could have been done better, and I’m being flamed for it so I’m done. If you truly do want to discuss I’m pretty free this afternoon so shoot me a PM.

[DanTheHorn 4922]

6 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

My point doesn't have anything to do with Skip. If SVP had tweeted the same people would still act like that. My point is wanting the guy to survive and wondering what happens with not playing this game and having 2 teams with 16 games played after next week are not mutually exclusive. And it shouldn't be an issue to get all indignant over no matter if Skip said it, SVP, or you or me. It only matters if people connected to him and that organization publicly do it. That would be callous and tone deaf because they're personally connected to the situation. The rest of us are not. 

SVP started discussing the game implications and no one is reacting the same way because they finally did it when there was more news about the status of the young man and did it tastefully. So your premise is incorrect, I think people are reacting to Skip that likes being a shock jock an craves attention regardless of the situation he uses to get it.

Edited January 3, 2023 by DanTheHorn

[Rimbo 25919]

Spoiler

 

GoFundMe is over $4.5M now

[irishtexan 11516]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

****Hamlin’s health is paramount and the only thing that matters****

As irrelevant as it is against the background of this man’s health, there are also a lot of fantasy implications for this game. That was the last game of many fantasy league’s season…effectively the “FF Super Bowl” week and that game was not inconsequential to that with so many star players being in the mix.

****not callously lobbying for anything…just another topic to be discussed in the wake of this potential tragedy since FF is such a big deal for the NFL****

 

1 hour ago, Had Enough said:

If I’m being honest, I’m damn curious how my DraftKings best ball tourney plays out due to last nights event. I’m done but the winner takes home $5k, 2nd place $1k. Fantasy players worldwide await additional information.

I haven’t read the fine print on the rules, but the potential implications of what they do with this game is interesting. I even wonder if they’d postpone all games a week and allow this one to be played next week then the final week the next weekend.
 

Will someone please think of the fantasy football players?!?!?!?!?!

[markstanco 12574]

1 hour ago, SHOOTER12 said:

You're a fucking liar and we all know it.  Hell the whole world knows you're a famous musician.

Also known for being the president of the continental congress. 

[C-Man 27209]

56 minutes ago, Skipper said:

If you are on sidelines of games, what should they have done differently i?  Given (i) not necessarily probable any decision maker had a perfect view of the direct hit to sternum and (ii) I would think the clear/reasonable assumption with an unconscious football player on the field is brain/head/neck and not cardiac, what is the protocol that would have led to them cutting shoulder pads/starting CPR/AED sooner?  Are they supposed to immediately check pulse if a player is non-responsive?  

Wouldn't the fact that he stood up completely before falling back over backwards indicate they were not dealing with a spinal situation?

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

My point doesn't have anything to do with Skip. If SVP had tweeted the same people would still act like that. My point is wanting the guy to survive and wondering what happens with not playing this game and having 2 teams with 16 games played after next week are not mutually exclusive. And it shouldn't be an issue to get all indignant over no matter if Skip said it, SVP, or you or me. It only matters if people connected to him and that organization publicly do it. That would be callous and tone deaf because they're personally connected to the situation. The rest of us are not. 

Not a chance. Everything you’re posting about this guy is 100% wrong and sounds a lot like the guy himself. I implore everyone to stop talking about this troll. 

[Herbie Hancock 7345]

Wouldn't the fact that he stood up completely before falling back over backwards indicate they were not dealing with a spinal situation?

This isn’t a dumb take at all, but no it does not indicate there is no spinal issue.

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

2 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Wouldn't the fact that he stood up completely before falling back over backwards indicate they were not dealing with a spinal situation?

It's a violent sport where the first priority is going to be stabilizing the C-spine.

I wasn't watching the game live but switched to it once I heard about it. I was able to find some videos (before being taken down) of him collapsing and the response from the sidelines. The first trainer/medical person reaching him immediately got behind his head and was stabilizing his head while leaning over him and trying to talk/establish a response from him.

Before the video cut off, which was about another 30 seconds, there never was a pulse check. That is not a dig on the trainers/ med staff. Just an observation. Pretty sure commotio cordis was the last thing they thought what was going on. If that is what it truly turns out to have been.

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

3 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

This isn’t a dumb take at all, but no it does not indicate there is no spinal issue.

I thought you were leaving??   ( I kidd....I kidd )

Your responses have been on point and more than informative. Just gotta remember your audience. It's why we cant have nice things.

 

[Herbie Hancock 7345]

I thought you were leaving??   ( I kidd....I kidd )
Your responses have been on point and more than informative. Just gotta remember your audience. It's why we cant have nice things.
 

I didn’t say I was leaving, just done with discussing the medical response the young man received.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

20 minutes ago, markstanco said:

Also known for being the president of the continental congress. 

[Had Enough 2081]

Will someone please think of the fantasy football players?!?!?!?!?!

Someone’s dreaming about becoming the next Matthew Berry. If they cancel the game, it’ll be like 1980 summer Olympic dreams dashed and gone forever.

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

13 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

I didn’t say I was leaving, just done with discussing the medical response the young man received.

Some here just need (want) things to be be like CSI.

All the forensics found, wrapped up, and completed within the hour. 

 

 

[Zeus 6018]

33 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Wouldn't the fact that he stood up completely before falling back over backwards indicate they were not dealing with a spinal situation?

There's literally zero time for them to make that call and not follow their protocols. 

Do no harm

They first stabilize (or make an assessment of) the spine/neck to make sure that any of the following actions don't paralyze the guy. 

Then they follow the next steps. 

They are trained for blunt force trauma, not exactly ready for 24 year old athletes to go down with cardiac arrest. Even so, they do have a defib and used it on him at some point. Also gave him oxygen. 

Even CPR was the right call at the time immediately following the collapse, they did everything pretty perfectly actually.

Quote

How to recognize cardiac arrest 

Mehta said checking someone's pulse through their arm or neck can help a bystander determine if someone is undergoing cardiac arrest. If there's no pulse, the heart isn't working. 

However, Becker said even some of the most experienced medical providers have trouble locating a pulse and instead suggests people use the "No-No-Go" approach: 

No consciousness: The person isn't awake.

No breathing: The person isn't breathing, or isn't making regular breaths. 

Go! Start chest compressions.

 

[stork642 4498]

1 hour ago, HouTex said:

Hoping for the best for the young man.  Lucky for Isiah Robertson that he didn’t have a problem after Campbell’s hit.

 

I remember that like it was yesterday.  That hit didn’t stop his heart but I clearly saw his soul leave his body after that hit.  

[Wally Pryor 5261]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Tomlin is one of my favorite coaches in all of sports. This only adds to my admiration. 

[ChickenSandwich 9831]

3 hours ago, C-Man said:

Yeah, that's kind of where I am on this. I'm hoping for a positive outcome for Hamlin because it sounds like he's a fantastic kid but I'm no longer super optimistic.

I was only half paying attention to the game and only noticed what was going on at about the second or third TV break when they came back from commercials to an ambulance on the field. I immediately rolled it back to watch, assuming it was a spinal deal. As soon as I saw the play (no apparent neck injury) and noticed he got back up before falling flat on his back, I figured it was cardiac. It was a pretty hard hit and I remembered stories of kids getting hit by screaming line drives in baseball or slap shots in hockey that got hit right in the chest and suffered cardiac events. Those usually didn't have good outcomes. Of course I had no idea it was called "Commotio cordis" until last night once it was brought up later in this very thread.

Posted previously in a different thread but a kid at my mothers high school took a punch to the chest and dropped. They did CPR and shocked him and thankfully he made a full recovery. 

[TreatyOak 16313]

[closetohumping 17438]

4 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

His brother is one of the best Mexican chefs in the US

[Uncle Nate 2097]

5 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

His brother is one of the best Mexican chefs in the US

Maybe so, but when I go to Chicago, I just can't bring myself to eating Mexican food.

[Tex Pete 20341]

6 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

His brother is one of the best Mexican chefs in the US

Why he gotta be Mexican?!

[JesusSweatDuck 17781]

13 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

You twisted motherfucker.  Love it

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Hermanator said:

Did you sleep through 2020? 

It's always been this way. It's in the DNA. The species evolved to be competitive in every way for limited resources. Now that technology is getting closer to making that a non issue it doesn't mean we don't have the same genetic wiring. Some people can use their prefrontal cortex region to override their amygdala on these matters but the vast majority of people do not. Ironically it's the evolved survival instincts that will be the cause of our downfall as a species. 

About Skip, who gives a shit if he wonders about the rest of the season? That isn't mutually exclusive with caring about this guy surviving. You can do both. This binary bullshit in society is so damn fatiguing. 

I would guess he cares about the guy surviving. That’s irrelevant. He and Rovell make it about THEM any opportunity they can. The former very intentionally so; the latter is just too much of an oblivious moron to know a whole lot better. 

[Uncle Nate 2097]

9 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Why he gotta be Mexican?!

You are what you eat/cook.

As such, I'm a giant hybrid cow/hog.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Uncle Nate

[closetohumping 17438]

16 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Why he gotta be Mexican?!

Actually, I think he's white.  Goes by "honkey lips" in the kitchen.  But he specializes in Mexican good.  I went to his fast casual place in the Sears Tower and had the best quesadillas ever.  Yeah. 

[TexasTroll 454]

9 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

You are what you eat/cook.

As such I guess I’m a giant Latina/taco

[markstanco 12574]

20 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Maybe so, but when I go to Chicago, I just can't bring myself to eating Mexican food.

More than a few great cajun kitchens up there. 

[Newdoc 3439]

5 hours ago, Herbie Hancock said:

From watching the video I can tell you they didn’t recognize he was in cardiac arrest quickly enough.

If he is now sedated and there is questionable brain anoxia then it would appear that CPR was late or insufficient. I still don’t think we will get an accurate timeline. 

You can stabilize the c spine, pull off the face mask and check a pulse all at the same time. It wasn’t just one medical staff person on the field. You can give a little grace on the AED timeline IF they recognized the pulseless rhythm quickly and started CPR until the AED was ready.

We had a high school athlete collapse at a game I wasn’t attending (random v-fib and no structural problem) and a nurse instructor and two family docs recognized it, started CPR and had the AED on and shocking within 3 minutes. No anoxic injury resulted.

[scottsins 1966]

Easy there, "doc."  Let me see you go from standing on the sidelines seeing your player go down, get to him, assess what he needs, cut through his jersey, shoulder pads and undershirt - not to mention stabilize his head because at this point you don't know there isn't a C-spine component to this), remove the facemask, get the LifePak out there and light him up in 30 seconds.  From what we know at this point there is exactly ZERO reason to believe the medical staff did anything short of an amazing job handling the situation.
They train for this type of situation regularly.  They are the best of the best at their field just like the players are.

If you assess the patient to be without pulse or breath, you do not take steps to stabilize head/neck. That person is dead and first priority is that “part”.

Edit to add:

I’m not a doctor, but I did get certified recently.

[SurlyGator 865]

21 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

If he is now sedated and there is questionable brain anoxia then it would appear that CPR was late or insufficient. I still don’t think we will get an accurate timeline. 

You can stabilize the c spine, pull off the face mask and check a pulse all at the same time. It wasn’t just one medical staff person on the field. You can give a little grace on the AED timeline IF they recognized the pulseless rhythm quickly and started CPR until the AED was ready.

We had a high school athlete collapse at a game I wasn’t attending (random v-fib and no structural problem) and a nurse instructor and two family docs recognized it, started CPR and had the AED on and shocking within 3 minutes. No anoxic injury resulted.

Still too many unknowns to accuately analyze.  Maybe the first shock was successful, maybe they had to hit him multiple times, especially if the dude had some underlying cardiac condition (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy most likely, but long Q-T, Brugada, etc., all of which, statistically, are more likely than commotio cordis).  It is very possible it wasn't a quick cardioversion.  This situations can hit the fan and get sideways in a hurry!

[ultimaton 2967]

53 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

You are what you eat/cook.

As such, I'm a giant hybrid cow/hog.

That explains why i'm such a pussy

[SurlyGator 865]

Just now, SurlyGator said:

Still too many unknowns to accuately analyze.  Maybe the first shock was successful, maybe they had to hit him multiple times, especially if the dude had some underlying cardiac condition (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy most likely, but long Q-T, Brugada, etc., all of which, statistically, are more likely than commotio cordis).  It is very possible it wasn't a quick cardioversion.  Situations like this can hit the fan and get sideways in a hurry!

 

[Rimbo 25919]

3 hours ago, DanTheHorn said:

If you think it was just about the person that got hurt then you are as clueless as Skip. Also, if you think Skip does things because he is a sports journalist then you have not been paying attention.

Skip's job is to stir up shit. It's the same job Kurt Bohls has, the same job Howard Stern has, etc. They draw in viewers/readers/listeners by saying said stupid shit. People like them and tune in to feel validated by what they have to say; people hate them and tune in to get angry at what they say. The latter group then tell "How does this dickhead keep his job?" Well, you just validated why, by clicking the link, posting comments and responses, etc.

Now most of these kind of folks are what they get paid to be. It's not an act. They actually are this stupid. I know this because I'm one of them. (See also: My posting history since my early days on Usenet ca 1992.)

Because of this... I also know what Skip was trying to say here. He was trying to say "canceling will create a huge scheduling mess, but that's less important than the young man's health." But this isn't just a case of bad phrasing:

1. One makes the point of the man's health being the only important thing by not even talking about the other things, especially in that moment. It's the wrong time to talk about it.

2. Skip is the wrong person to talk about anything else. Be aware of your role and who you are: A paid shit disturber. People will assume you're trying to stir up shit unless you give them no opportunity to believe anything else. Compare what Skip did to what Booger did: He kept his trap shut. He legitimately had nothing to say. In that moment, saying nothing is better than saying something wrong, especially if you go professionally by a nickname like "Skip" or "Booger."

See what I mean? These are not easy lessons to learn if you're a big mouthed colossal dickhead like Skip, Booger or ... me. But you gotta know them.

Unfortunately, all this talk about Skip isn't likely to cause him to lose his job. Because stirring this shit up IS his job.