the 2023 speaker of the house voting thread of implosion

[henrygandorf 29175]

2 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Except it takes 2/3 of the senate to remove from office. The House will still surely impeach Biden over nothing though 

that's fine.  we want jordan and mtg holding pointless hearings and investigations over stuff americans don't care about.  we want them to look like buffoons for two years then dominate in '24.  they're off to a great start imo.

[tokamak 6352]

26 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

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McCarthy debacle comes with a lesson: There's a downside to being a party of fascist trolls

Calling Republican renegades "ultraconservative" doesn't cut it: This clown show is a symptom of the big F

It's been entertaining, in a dark sort of way, watching the mainstream media try to explain what is fueling the conflict between Rep. Kevin McCarthy, the House Republicans' supposed leader, and the 20 or so members of his own caucus who are preventing him from becoming House speaker. The New York Times called the anti-McCarthy faction "ultraconservative" and the Washington Post noted that most are full-on election deniers. Not only are these euphemisms for what they actually are — a bunch of fascists — it also falsely implies that the disagreement is ideological. It's not. McCarthy is in full agreement with the anti-democratic views of this group. He was among the 147 House Republicans who voted to overturn the 2020 election in the immediate aftermath of the Capitol attack. While McCarthy was initially cranky about the violence of Jan. 6, 2021, he has done everything in his power to shield the powerful conspirators who incited it, including Donald Trump himself, from any accountability. 

There's no real daylight between the foaming-at-the-mouth fascists and McCarthy, much less other GOP leaders like Rep. Elise Stefanik of New York, a shameless coup booster and reborn Trump loyalist, and Rep. Steve Scalise of Louisiana, who once described himself as "David Duke without the baggage." Recognizing this, some political observers have started describing the fight as "personal," as if the anti-Kevins just don't like the guy. But that's not plausible either, since the common factor uniting the 20 or 21 holdouts is not personality type but the fact that they come from safe seats in deep-red districts. These folks are far more worried about losing a primary to someone who runs on a more-fascist-than-thou platform than about losing to a Democrat. 

After McCarthy failed to win the speakership three times on Tuesday, the punishment continued on Wednesday. Those whom Team McCarthy dubbed the "Taliban 20" aligned with Democrats on the "let Kevin suffer" platform, allowing the voting to resume. After three more tedious roll-call votes in which absolutely nothing changed — except that the renegades are now voting for Rep. Byron Donalds of Florida, not Rep. Jim Jordan of Ohio — the House adjourned again with no speaker, no assigned committees, no members actually sworn in. (Actually, it adjourned twice, after briefly reconvening on Wednesday night.) Presumably they'll try again on Thursday, and perhaps some kind of deal will be struck, although no one seems to have a viable theory of what that will be. 

So if this godawful mess is not personal or ideological, then what is it? Ultimately, it's not about Kevin McCarthy at all. It's about the Republican Party's self-conception in its exciting new fascist iteration (which was forged under Donald Trump but doesn't really have much to do with him either). Fascism needs to be understood less as an ideological movement and more as a movement devoted to the worship of power for its own sake, and also a dramatic aesthetic of constant warfare and performative purification of an ever-narrower conception of the body politic. 

Those are big words, and I apologize, but here's a simpler way to put it: Fascists are a bunch of trolls who are never satisfied. They must always prove their power by ganging up on someone who's been cast as an "outsider." As the Atlantic's Adam Serwer famously observed, "The cruelty is the point." Most of the time, the targets are racial and sexual minorities, liberals or immigrants. But sometimes, that restless need to constantly bully someone manifests in purification rituals, where a once-trusted or even beloved insider is deemed an outsider who must be ritually purged. It's just Kevin McCarthy's turn in the proverbial barrel, though he almost certainly hasn't helped his cause by constantly debasing himself before the hardliners. He's marked himself as a weenie, and that just makes his tormentors enjoy watching him suffer even more. 

The Trump era has, understandably, led to a nonstop and frustrating debate over what exactly "fascism" is. I favor the famous 1995 essay by Italian philosopher Umberto Eco, who argued that fascism is a movement of "rigid discombobulation, a structured confusion," replete with contradictions and incoherencies, and yet that "emotionally it was firmly fastened to some archetypal foundations."

In other words, fascism is about vibes more than fleshed-out ideas. Very, very authoritarian vibes. One big reason we can identify Republicans as fascist now is because while their appetite for power knows no end, their willingness to govern — that is, to use power to achieve substantive ends — has diminished to nothing. It's all vibes and no ideas, beyond an inchoate loathing of anyone they deem too dark-skinned, too queer or too literate to be truly American.

In his "Ur-Fascism" essay, Eco laid out 14 features of fascism, which add up not to a coherent political philosophy so much as a series of antisocial impulses. It's worth reading in its entirety, but the McCarthy debacle illustrates some of Eco's most important observations: Fascism is deliberately irrational. Indeed, it makes a fetish of irrationality. It's a "cult of action for action's sake" that believes thinking before acting "is a form of emasculation." The fascist believes that "life is permanent warfare" and therefore there must always be an enemy to struggle against. That's why fascists love conspiracy theories. Their "followers must feel besieged," and since they have no real oppressors to rail against, they make up imaginary ones. 

 

After Trump's coup failed and the red wave of the midterms didn't materialize, Republicans are turning on each other. Even healthy political parties tend to have periods of recrimination after suffering bitter defeats. For the dysfunctional Republicans, however, this anger is being refracted through their increasingly fascist worldview, which is paranoid, irrational and hostile to democracy. That's why the demands made by the anti-McCarthy faction are incomprehensible and seem to change by the hour. The mentality that "life is permanent warfare" leads to the party's desire to constantly purify itself of the enemy within, in this case the despised "RINOs." But as more and more RINOs get purged, the definition becomes more expansive and maintaining party purity becomes almost impossible. Eventually, craven sycophants like McCarthy are rechristened as RINOs and thrown overboard. There is no endpoint where the party has finally cleansed itself. 

Watching Republicans tear each other apart like this isn't just entertaining, but also useful. Fascists are always itching for a fight. Under Trump, that energy was directed outwardly at their perceived enemies: Democrats, liberal "elites," immigrants, LGBTQ people and eventually democracy itself. But as this House leadership fight has shown, fascists will also turn on each other like a bunch of weasels in a sack. With any luck, they tear themselves apart before they can tear democracy down. 
Nancy Pelosi may not be the House Democrats' leader anymore, but her party are responding to this clown show in a way that shows they retain the unity and clarity of purpose Pelosi typically brought to their caucus. They are resisting the centrist punditry that insists Democrats have a responsibility to swoop in and protect Republicans from their own worst elements, as if saving their most vicious opponents from their own mistakes were somehow the same thing as saving democracy. We saw this impulse most recently in the media reaction to Democratic campaign ads highlighting the MAGA bonafides of certain far-right candidates to GOP primary voters, believing those kinds of radicals would be easier to beat in a general election. Those media criticisms were based on the shaky assumption that fire-breathing fascists are a bigger threat to democracy than supposed "mainstream" Republicans like McCarthy, who share their anti-democratic views but can play moderate in front of the cameras. 

 

Well, the strategy of sowing internal discord among Republicans is working pretty well so far. A lot of the GOP's most egregious nuts lost their elections. Those who made it across the finish line are currently in the process of blowing their party up. Democrats are wise to continue refusing to bail Republicans out of their own mess. Even though Kevin McCarthy is the fascist crowd's newest piñata, that doesn't mean it's good for Democrats or democracy if he secures the speaker's gavel. He has no interest in governing. The plan, if we want to call it that, was to ignore legislation and appoint lots of House committees to spread conspiracy theories about Joe Biden and other political foes. McCarthy was also expected to use threats about the debt ceiling and a possible government shutdown in a pointless and destructive effort to force cuts in Social Security and Medicare. By far the best thing for democracy is if the Republicans simply implode and their nefarious schemes never come to fruition. 

Frankly, I think that's why Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell just did a friendly bipartisan event with Biden in Kentucky, highlighting the benefits of infrastructure spending. Not long ago, McConnell would have done everything in his power to keep a Democratic president from getting credit for a popular program. He may now be starting to see the downside to this nihilistic approach to politics, which threatens to consume his entire party.

It's more than likely, however, that the Kentucky event will only sow more intra-party discord, further enraging the burn-it-all-down types and turning them even more forcefully against GOP leadership. Republicans may control the House, but they can't control their own worst impulses. Meanwhile, Dark Brandon and the Democrats continue to flip the politics of fascist trolling back in the GOP's face. Democracy is still at risk, make no mistake. But it now seems possible that its enemies may tear their own house down before they get the chance to destroy ours.

By AMANDA MARCOTTE

https://www.salon.com/2023/01/05/mccarthy-debacle-comes-with-a-lesson-theres-a-downside-to-being-a-party-of-fascist/

It's a good essay. Same deal with Liz Cheney. She's conservative as fuck, but they had to have an enemy to gang up on, so out she goes.

[SimonBolivar 10925]

What did tits say?

[DDD Dad 14251]

Boebert just voted for Hearn?

[Pancho 44475]

Bobreries just voted for Hearn?

[henrygandorf 29175]

that's actually some next-level trolling right there.  i vote for kevin...hern.

someone needs to stand up and say, "i cast my vote for kevin...mc...hale, my all-time favorite power forward."

[ChiTownDoc 21101]

6 hours ago, Constant said:

Santos was heard comparing McCarthy’s leadership and inspirational qualities to the defensive coordinator from his playing days at Penn State. 

More accurate.  

[C-Man 27052]

There are two “Others” votes now — who is that? Trump and ???

[Pancho 44475]

1 minute ago, C-Man said:

There are two “Others” votes now — who is that? Trump and ???

Both for Hearn, I believe.

[Mo Horn 8807]

10 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

You know it takes a 2/3 vote of the Senate to remove following impeachment, right?

ETA: @Pig Bellmont beat me to it.

Fair point. I did forget that

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

14 hours ago, The Dog said:

nah she's toast. she barely won last november and will probably lose in 2024. 

she'll do a rant about how her election was stolen, get a lawyer or two disbarred on stupid lawsuits, then start an onlyfans channel while she rides a dildo called "Donald's Dick."

she's fucking done.

[henrygandorf 29175]

Just now, C-Man said:

There are two “Others” votes now — who is that? Trump and ???

i believe they're both hern.

a few things i learned (that others probably didn't know either because why would they) - you don't have to be in the house to become speaker or receive a vote, but also, even though they make such a big deal about it, you don't have to get officially "nominated" to receive a vote. 

it gets you on the scoreboard by name, but means very little as far as i've heard or noticed.  at this point, it's all performative.  there's no difference between a donalds vote, a trump/jimbo/santa claus vote, or a present vote.  the only number that matters is the non-mccarthy republican votes.  that number (i believe) has gone 19-19-20-20-21-21-21.

[Bozo_Casanova 26279]

26 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Yes.  No.  Speaker can be you, me, Jimbo Fisher, etc.

[tokamak 6352]

Apparently Justin Amash has showed up, because why the fuck not

[henrygandorf 29175]

lol huffman did it again.

[SydneyCarton 47876]

5 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Apparently Justin Amash has showed up, because why the fuck not

He showed up yesterday too, begging to be made speaker. 

[Hermanator 6944]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

So could I call a rep office and offer them a campaign donation if they will nominate me for speaker?  Or the person of my choosing?

You're going to have to pay a shit ton to get a Republican to nominate "Pato de Muerto". Something that sounds that Mexican will get a Republican primaried quick

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

2 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

You're going to have to pay a shit ton to get a Republican to nominate "Pato de Muerto". Something that sounds that Mexican will get a Republican primaried quick

I’ll just say I’m from Barthelona

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

32 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

the hfc is doing exactly what the gop/media told us the squad/progressives would do for the past 4 years.

say what you want about the dems, the big tent, the in-fighting, circular firing squad, and so forth, but they rallied together to get biden elected, they fell in line when pelosi needed them, they saw the bigger picture, they didn't grandstand and make it about themselves in order to go on tv and fundraise while holding the party hostage, and they've pulled zero shenanigans on this vote so far - 212 all 7x.

meanwhile, the media all told us that mccarthy picked up momentum last night with his wheeling and dealing, and in the first ballot of the day, he gets (checks notes) exactly the same amount he got in the final couple votes yesterday.

he's basically negotiating with himself, and losing.

fuck 'em all, let them burn.

And we still have posters in this thread suggesting what the Dems ought to do. I’d say they’re doing just fine and shouldn’t change a thing. Let the Trumpublicunts twist in the wind. 

[Ted Lange 16048]

Wonder what sort of numerological BS the Q idiots will come up with based on the number of times Kevin loses.  

Edited January 5, 2023 by Ted Lange

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

33 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Except it takes 2/3 of the senate to remove from office. The House will still surely impeach Biden over nothing though 

And boost his approval ratings in the process, getting him re-elected. 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

SIAP, but at what point do we look at this being an extension of the insurrection? Meaning they want to burn the system down and this is the next way to do so and not really about McCarthy at all. 

[Hermanator 6944]

13 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

lol huffman did it again.

 

I believe we have arrived

[Francisco 2.0 32333]

2 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Apparently Justin Amash has showed up, because why the fuck not

It's Homecoming week; might as well come around and watch the circus in person

 

[Hermanator 6944]

1 minute ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

SIAP, but at what point do we look at this being an extension of the insurrection? Meaning they want to burn the system down and this is the next way to do so and not really about McCarthy at all. 

There's a disturbing amount of Americans who want to burn it all to the ground. Somehow believing being poor in a broken country is better than being poor in a decently run country. 

[Bullneck 18987]

 

 

[C-Man 27052]

The only place I've heard about a plurality vote is on this thread. I've not heard it discussed by any of the networks covering this and I've had it on TV pretty much all day this week. Why isn't getting brought up by anybody else?

[Bullneck 18987]

 

 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1291]

6 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Wonder what sort of numerological BS the Q idiots will come up with based on the number of times Kevin loses.  

On the 13th vote, JFK Jr. will get nominated. He won't win then, but he will eventually prevail and only then will he reveal himself. At that point, even the democrats will be true believers and they will all fall in line to impeach Biden and Kamala, then install Jr. Trump will be appointed vice president.

[Anastasis 23395]

22 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Apparently Justin Amash has showed up, because why the fuck not

He has been "lobbying" to be a speaker that would clean up the concentration of power and lack of deliberative process in the House.

 

 

[TexasEd 8064]

Possible Dem troll job nomination: Liz Cheney

More seriously they could work with a centrist R with 10 votes and make sure Gym, Boobert, and MTG are not on any committees.  

[tokamak 6352]

8th vote is over. Boebert voted for Kevin Hern just to troll and some simp followed her, otherwise no changes.

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

Still waiting to read about votes for jfk sr or jr, Donnie or Eric, Rudy or his kid. Maybe Hershel, since he would have been such a great senator. 

[The Royal We 3065]

I read Amash's tweetstorm the other day and he was doing okay until he got to the part where he praised a congressman who was an active participant in J6 and then called Cheney a liberal.  Because obviously her participation in the J6 hearings has a much larger bearing on where she sits on the political spectrum than her actual voting record as a member of congress.  

GTFOHWTMFBS

[Bozo_Casanova 26279]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

He has been "lobbying" to be a speaker that would clean up the concentration of power and lack of deliberative process in the House.

 

 

 

[Gatorubet 30098]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 

Compulsive liar.   Great.  Now he’ll get more support.

Speakers like LBJ or Pelosi wielded iron fists, but the really competent speakers (like both) tended to keep their word. When you are in the deal making business, it is the one absolute requisite.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

Vegas just put up odds for Kevin Hart and Kevin Durant getting nominated.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

you don't see our resident R apologists in here much. funny that

Just now, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Vegas just put up odds for Kevin Hart and Kevin Durant getting nominated.

easy money for Vegas

Edited January 5, 2023 by Longhorn_Fan68

[Ghost of LL 15491]

3 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Compulsive liar.   Great.  Now he’ll get more support.

Speakers like LBJ or Pelosi wielded iron fists, but the really competent speakers (like both) tended to keep their word. When you are in the deal making business, it is the one absolute requisite.

[HornPhD 1364]

48 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Boebert just voted for Hearn?

Chick Hearn? 

[C-Man 27052]

Well, CNN just mentioned plurality vote when discussing how they finally broke the deadlock back in the 1800's when we had 133 failed votes before electing a Speaker.

[Beau Vine 54001]

18 minutes ago, C-Man said:

The only place I've heard about a plurality vote is on this thread. I've not heard it discussed by any of the networks covering this and I've had it on TV pretty much all day this week. Why isn't getting brought up by anybody else?

You're apparently watching the wrong channels, because I've heard both Fox and CNN mention it.  Jake Tapper was just talking about it 3 minutes ago.

[Nuge 1962]

14 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

Possible Dem troll job nomination: Liz Cheney

More seriously they could work with a centrist R with 10 votes and make sure Gym, Boobert, and MTG are not on any committees.  

Hell, perhaps Adam Kinzinger would be palatable.

[henrygandorf 29175]

1 minute ago, C-Man said:

Well, CNN just mentioned plurality vote when discussing how they finally broke the deadlock back in the 1800's when we had 133 failed votes before electing a Speaker.

they would have to propose that and then vote for it and well, you've seen how that goes.

[dcbc 14405]

[Beau Vine 54001]

9 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Compulsive liar.   Great.  Now he’ll get more support.

GOP:

[The Dog 43803]

Chris Beard needs a job...

[bolverk 29399]

Someone needs to nominate Damar Hamlin. If anyone could pull off the miracle of national unity, he could.

[Beau Vine 54001]

Kinsinger says he just got an email from a friend who just got a fundraising email from Andy Biggs bragging about blocking McCarthy.

[SydneyCarton 47876]

2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Kinsinger says he just got an email from a friend who just got a fundraising email from Andy Biggs bragging about blocking McCarthy.

There. Right there is a motherfucker I believe could get actually win a nomination for Speaker right now.