the 2023 speaker of the house voting thread of implosion

[GopherRock 1765]

Is this on the motion to table or the motion to vacate?

What I'm seeing is that there are two votes today. The first one is whether to table (kill) the motion to vacate the chair, then the second one will be on the MVC itself.

[Hmbre97 6305]

this vote is for motion to table

[Dbeasy 15042]

2 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I disagree.  Democrats saving McCarthy proves that the MAGA lunatics can do whatever they want because Democrats will always swoop in as the voice of sanity.  Letting Republicans deal with their own mess is the only way (as unlikely as it may be) for some of them to see the light and squash the parasite.

Ok I’ve thought about this a bit more as we watch the vote. I don’t think this makes sense. 

By aligning with the radical republicans in this vote, by definition they are giving them more future negotiating power within their own party. I’m starting to think this is a big mistake by the Democrats. I know they are mad at McCarthy for many big reasons, but they are creating bigger problems down the line. 

[C-Man 27194]

Just now, Dbeasy said:

Ok I’ve thought about this a bit more as we watch the vote. I don’t think this makes sense. 

By aligning with the radical republicans in this vote, by definition they are giving them more future negotiating power within their own party. I’m starting to think this is a big mistake by the Democrats. I know they are mad at McCarthy for many big reasons, but they are creating bigger problems down the line. 

Very on-brand for today's Democratic party

[The Dog 44019]

Motion to table fails:

[Celery Man 20933]

19 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

You just remembered that?  Our first clue should have been three-fold this morning.  Trump's attorneys inquired about trial delays if he has official Speaker business as head of our Congress?  second, VP Harris' SS detail was doubled this morning.  Third, the sec. of State's trip to UT-Austin tomorrow has been temporarily suspended due to questions of succession.  Though it is expected to be resolved by tomorrow morning.  

Remember though, Trump made us stronger and more respected around the world.  Despite the fact we are about to enter a 36-hour circus.  

[A-Tex Devil 2446]

2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Ok I’ve thought about this a bit more as we watch the vote. I don’t think this makes sense. 

By aligning with the radical republicans in this vote, by definition they are giving them more future negotiating power within their own party. I’m starting to think this is a big mistake by the Democrats. I know they are mad at McCarthy for many big reasons, but they are creating bigger problems down the line. 

This is a knock-on benefit to the GOP if Dems do this.  They can start calling themselves bipartisan and whatnot.  Let them dangle in the wind for the next 45 days.  This is either a repeat of January, which is the more likely case, or the Dems get huge concessions out of it (which I imagine McCarthy would never agree to).   No impeachment inquiry on Hunter laptop or an up down vote (I prefer the former - just kill it), boot Gaetz and Santos, pull MTG and Gosar off of committees, whatever you can get.  McCarthy has enough support to counter anything the Freedom Caucus can do without the democrats.  

1 minute ago, C-Man said:

Very on-brand for today's Democratic party

Yep.  

[YGIFS 19449]

You know shit's getting real when C-SPAN captures Jim Jordan wearing a suit jacket.  He usually reserves their use for hanging over his head so he can legally claim he didn't see/hear any locker room rape taking place.  

I can't believe this is all happening on National Taco Day Eve...

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

Ok I’ve thought about this a bit more as we watch the vote. I don’t think this makes sense. 
By aligning with the radical republicans in this vote, by definition they are giving them more future negotiating power within their own party. I’m starting to think this is a big mistake by the Democrats. I know they are mad at McCarthy for many big reasons, but they are creating bigger problems down the line. 

I don’t understand much about the modern day Republican Party, but I’m fairly certain that “aligning with Democrats” isn’t the way to gain future negotiating power. It’s not like the two groups are forming some sort of governing coalition. Sure, on this one vote MAGA interests align with Democrats but I assure you that won’t be a common occurrence.

The best thing for the country is for the Republican Party to shed the MAGA wing. I’m not saying it’s likely, but anything that drives a wedge in that relationship is something I support the Democrats pursuing.

[Brisketexan 105072]

21 minutes ago, Hmbre97 said:

this vote is for motion to table

I move to table the motion to table the motion to vacate.  And I call the question.  POINT OF ORDER!

Goddammit, I need my powdered wig.....

[Beau Vine 54208]

Every Dem voting present is the only smart move.

['stache 21797]

2 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I don’t understand much about the modern day Republican Party, but I’m fairly certain that “aligning with Democrats” isn’t the way to gain future negotiating power. It’s not like the two groups are forming some sort of governing coalition. Sure, on this one vote MAGA interests align with Democrats but I assure you that won’t be a common occurrence.

The best thing for the country is for the Republican Party to shed the MAGA wing. I’m not saying it’s likely, but anything that drives a wedge in that relationship is something I support the Democrats pursuing.

This. McCarthy is a shit head, no dem should vote for him to retain that seat. No maga candidate will win the seat either. McCarthy is every much gqp as the rest. Makes no difference unless and until someone gives concessions to the dems. Otherwise go fuck yourselves. They can’t get maga shit passes through senate and White House so they’re dickless either way.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5792]

15 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Ok I’ve thought about this a bit more as we watch the vote. I don’t think this makes sense. 

By aligning with the radical republicans in this vote, by definition they are giving them more future negotiating power within their own party. I’m starting to think this is a big mistake by the Democrats. I know they are mad at McCarthy for many big reasons, but they are creating bigger problems down the line. 

Yeah the many big reasons are pretty damn big. Fuck Mccarthy. I feel like you're doing one of those "would you rather" with two horrible options. Let the GOP fix their own mess

[Pig Bellmont 8712]

Impressed by the “actually this is bad for Dems” posts. McCarthy gets his face eaten by the leopards and the Dems just got out of the way

[DDD Dad 14325]

2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Every Dem voting present is the only smart move.

How so?  That's essentially the same as voting no.  

[SydneyCarton 48057]

2 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

Thats what I’m struggling with. If you look at what’s best for this country, there is no question that keeping MCarthy and helping him obliterate the maga would be in the best interest of the country overall. But, it may not be what’s best for Democrats in terms of winning elections in the future. Tough call. 

I think Democrats are setting the table for concessions. McCarthy clearly wasn't willing to give any out now, for whatever reason, and the Democrats closed ranks. As they should. After another 15 failed speaker votes, democrats can come back to the table and say "Help us help you, while helping America. Here is what we want."

24 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Ok I’ve thought about this a bit more as we watch the vote. I don’t think this makes sense. 

By aligning with the radical republicans in this vote, by definition they are giving them more future negotiating power within their own party. I’m starting to think this is a big mistake by the Democrats. I know they are mad at McCarthy for many big reasons, but they are creating bigger problems down the line. 

This is horseshit. Classic pussy democratic behavior. "But guys, we need to be the responsible ones!" You make the Republicans sweat in the shit stew of their own creation, until the moderates in swing and biden districts tap the fuck out. Or when they can't get anyone else elected Speaker, you have your list of demands, AND maybe you pick a new Speaker not named McCarthy who is a moderate Republican as a cherry on top. 

The notion that the MAGA fucks get more power from this is absurd, IMO. To get more power,  they'd have to elect their guy. And they can't. There is a faction of guys voting that are McCarthy or no one, as well. This is a standoff. You squeeze the guys in swing districts, or you offer McCarthy the lifeline after he agrees to your demands. Or you let this shit go on for 2 more months and see what happens come election time. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[Js1 85286]

Real life Veep

 

[kevwun 15764]

McCarthy proved pretty thoroughly that you can't work with the Magats because they refuse to compromise on anything and aren't serious about governing.  The Republicans can try it again, but it will end the same way.

Edited October 3, 2023 by kevwun

[Beau Vine 54208]

5 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

How so?  That's essentially the same as voting no.  

You help oust him and you make him a star and you align yourself with the crazies.   "Kevin McCarthy simply couldn't get along with the extremists in the House, the MAGA wing and the Democrats."

And what do you do when MTG replaces him?

[Pato del Muerto 52485]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Real life Veep

 

Amazingly sophomoric goings on in the US House of Representatives. 
house of commons mps are laughing. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Impressed by the “actually this is bad for Dems” posts. McCarthy gets his face eaten by the leopards and the Dems just got out of the way

Reads a bit like NYTimes Pitchbot

[royiv 9261]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

You help oust him and you make him a star and you align yourself with the crazies.   "Kevin McCarthy simply couldn't get along with the extremists in the House, the MAGA wing and the Democrats."

And what do you do when MTG replaces him?

MTG isn't getting the votes to replace him. Why would you vote to keep him in place without getting something in return? Democrats voting as a bloc dials up the pressure on the GQP civil war. 

['stache 21797]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

You help oust him and you make him a star and you align yourself with the crazies.   "Kevin McCarthy simply couldn't get along with the extremists in the House, the MAGA wing and the Democrats."

And what do you do when MTG replaces him?

I think you're missing that MTG and none of the other whack jobs can get enough republican votes for that position. Nobody in their right mind thinks dems are "aligning" themselves with MAGA. Don't you see the humor in Gaetz claiming that McCarthy is working with the dems, while literally bringing a vote that the dems are supporting, and now supposedly having to speak from the left side of the chamber? It's fucking delicious to watch them burn it to the ground. They've been stirring this pot since at least Reaganomics, and here they are, having to suck mushroom cock. Fuck them all. 

[Dbeasy 15042]

4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I think Democrats are setting the table for concessions. McCarthy clearly wasn't willing to give any out now, for whatever reason, and the Democrats closed ranks. As they should. After another 15 failed speaker votes, democrats can come back to the table and say "Help us help you, while helping America. Here is what we want."

This is horseshit. Classic pussy democratic behavior. "But guys, we need to be the responsible ones!" You make the Republicans sweat in the shit stew of their own creation, until the moderates in swing and biden districts tap the fuck out. Or when they can't get anyone else elected Speaker, you have your list of demands, AND maybe you pick a new Speaker not named McCarthy who is a moderate Republican as a cherry on top. 

The notion that the MAGA fucks get more power from this is absurd, IMO. To get more power,  they'd have to elect their guy. And they can't. There is a faction of guys voting that are McCarthy or no one, as well. This is a standoff. You squeeze the guys in swing districts, or you offer McCarthy the lifeline after he agrees to your demands. Or you let this shit go on for 2 more months and see what happens come election time. 

Six guys toppling the speaker of the house for the first time in over 100 years is absolutely more power. For now. The real question you are correctly asking is whether that translates into continued power going forward. It’s a fair question. I don’t happen to believe it’s a slam dunk that they can’t leverage this event into more. 

[Brisketexan 105072]

11 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I think Democrats are setting the table for concessions. McCarthy clearly wasn't willing to give any out now, for whatever reason, and the Democrats closed ranks. As they should. After another 15 failed speaker votes, democrats can come back to the table and say "Help us help you, while helping America. Here is what we want."

This is horseshit. Classic pussy democratic behavior. "But guys, we need to be the responsible ones!" You make the Republicans sweat in the shit stew of their own creation, until the moderates in swing and biden districts tap the fuck out. Or when they can't get anyone else elected Speaker, you have your list of demands, AND maybe you pick a new Speaker not named McCarthy who is a moderate Republican as a cherry on top. 

The notion that the MAGA fucks get more power from this is absurd, IMO. To get more power,  they'd have to elect their guy. And they can't. There is a faction of guys voting that are McCarthy or no one, as well. This is a standoff. You squeeze the guys in swing districts, or you offer McCarthy the lifeline after he agrees to your demands. Or you let this shit go on for 2 more months and see what happens come election time. 

All of this.  Great post.  It's very likely correct.  And it's the right move by the Dems.

Except....understand how pathetic and weak the GQP really is, including its supposed "principled" members.  There is at least a 25% chance that before this week is out, Donald Trump has been voted in as Speaker of the House.

All norms and rules are dead.  Everything is Calvinball now.

[jimmyjazz 45889]

14 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

This is horseshit. Classic pussy democratic behavior. "But guys, we need to be the responsible ones!" 

Stockholm Syndrome.

[Dbeasy 15042]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

All of this.  Great post.  It's very likely correct.  And it's the right move by the Dems.

Except....understand how pathetic and weak the GQP really is, including its supposed "principled" members.  There is at least a 25% chance that before this week is out, Donald Trump has been voted in as Speaker of the House.

All norms and rules are dead.  Everything is Calvinball now.

You may be joking, but that’s the risk. It may work out great for the Democrats, and I get the calls for the Democrats to be much more aggressive than they’ve been. I’ve been banging that drum for awhile now too. 

I guess what really bugs me is the headline that Gaetz was successful at anything.  It pisses me off more than seeing McCarthy survive for now  

 

[Pancho 44712]

15 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Real life Veep

 

[horn4life 3759]

IS there anything that the GOP house can do besides fuck up the markets with thier endless childessness?

[SydneyCarton 48057]

6 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Six guys toppling the speaker of the house for the first time in over 100 years is absolutely more power. For now. The real question you are correctly asking is whether that translates into continued power going forward. It’s a fair question. I don’t happen to believe it’s a slam dunk that they can’t leverage this event into more. 

The power you're referencing, they got that months ago when a weak Kevin McCarthy agreed that just 1 person could call a motion to vacate. There's a reason it hasn't happened in 100 years, it's becuase it didn't get weaponized until Boehner was the Speaker. But to the point, they didn't get that power now, they got that power months ago. They have it, and they'll continue to have it until you take that weapon away from the petulant children that McCarthy gave the gun to...

 

So...yeah...for now. But that "power" is meaningless. They've used it, what's the next move? I'll sit back and wait for an answer, and I'd love to hear one, because as far as I can tell they've shot their shot and now they've got nothing left in any chamber. You say it's not a slam dunk they can leverage their position for more power. I think it's not even a full court heave they can get out of this situation with LESS power. There's talk of expelling Gaetz. There's talk of neutering the MAGATS. This is good. When your enemy is intent on making mistakes, you don't fucking step in and stop them. Unless you get something. 

 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

This was always going to happen when McCarthy agreed to rules so he could "win" the Speaker role in January. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

[SydneyCarton 48057]

2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

You may be joking, but that’s the risk. It may work out great for the Democrats, and I get the calls for the Democrats to be much more aggressive than they’ve been. I’ve been banging that drum for awhile now too. 

I guess what really bugs me is the headline that Gaetz was successful at anything.  It pisses me off more than seeing McCarthy survive for now  

 

You're really going to be in a tizzy when he runs for Governor of Florida. 

[Brisketexan 105072]

2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

You may be joking, but that’s the risk. It may work out great for the Democrats, and I get the calls for the Democrats to be much more aggressive than they’ve been. I’ve been banging that drum for awhile now too. 

I'm not joking.  When it comes to worst-case scenarios, I'm never joking -- you know this about me.

This is the right play for the Dems.  It carries risk, but it's worth the risk.  You have to take risks to make any real gains and start to fix shit.  There are no safe plays.  Just know that the risk is literally making Trump the Speaker of the House. 

[Js1 85286]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

This was always going to happen when McCarthy agreed to rules so he could "win" the Speaker role in January. 

It’s more a surprise it took this long. Many thought it would happen after the debt ceiling fight instead 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

Just now, Js1 said:

It’s more a surprise it took this long. Many thought it would happen after the debt ceiling fight instead 

I expected Gaetz to attempt an overthrow within a few weeks. As much I dislike him, I give McCarthy some level of credit for hanging on this long. 

McCarthy should take a drag on a cigarette, snuff it out on the House carpet and yell, "you get Hoynes"

[bernorange 8359]

I'm watching the debate before the vote in the background and I'm fairly surprised to hear a lot of folks sounding thoughtful and rational.

[wildcat09 29346]

32 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Impressed by the “actually this is bad for Dems” posts. McCarthy gets his face eaten by the leopards and the Dems just got out of the way

Some people will never buck their instinctual "literally everything is bad for Democrats" thinking.

[Js1 85286]

 

[Beau Vine 54208]

1 minute ago, bernorange said:

I'm watching the debate before the vote in the background and I'm fairly surprised to hear a lot of folks sounding thoughtful and rational.

Well, here's Gaetz...

[Brisketexan 105072]

Just now, bernorange said:

I'm watching the debate before the vote in the background and I'm fairly surprised to hear a lot of folks sounding thoughtful and rational.

Too.

Fucking.

Late.

Their party hitched their wagon to Batshit Crazy.  They did so knowingly, cravenly, while telling the lie to themselves and their constituents that they could control the inherently uncontrollable.

LET. THEM. FUCKING. CRASH. AND. DIE.  The country is going to take a massive hit because of this.  So be it.  It's been coming for a long, long time.  Time to start taking the brutal chemo.  It's the only fucking shot we have of killing the cancer.

When all is said and done, a lot of people are going to experience a lot of pain and suffering.  Plenty of us have been warning against that for a long-ass time.  Nobody cares.  Well, here it comes.  What everyone always wanted -- the inevitable consequences of an insanely stupid course of action.  And this is but one act in what is going to be a marathon play of suffering and ghoulishness.

[Beau Vine 54208]

2 minutes ago, bernorange said:

I'm watching the debate before the vote in the background and I'm fairly surprised to hear a lot of folks sounding thoughtful and rational.

[Js1 85286]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

King of the Libertarians thinks the GOP is being rational and making good points. NO WAY

[Dbeasy 15042]

12 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

The power you're referencing, they got that months ago when a weak Kevin McCarthy agreed that just 1 person could call a motion to vacate. There's a reason it hasn't happened in 100 years, it's becuase it didn't get weaponized until Boehner was the Speaker. But to the point, they didn't get that power now, they got that power months ago. They have it, and they'll continue to have it until you take that weapon away from the petulant children that McCarthy gave the gun to...

 

So...yeah...for now. But that "power" is meaningless. They've used it, what's the next move? I'll sit back and wait for an answer, and I'd love to hear one, because as far as I can tell they've shot their shot and now they've got nothing left in any chamber. You say it's not a slam dunk they can leverage their position for more power. I think it's not even a full court heave they can get out of this situation with LESS power. There's talk of expelling Gaetz. There's talk of neutering the MAGATS. This is good. When your enemy is intent on making mistakes, you don't fucking step in and stop them. Unless you get something. 

 

 

You may be right. There was a rumor that the ethics charges against Gaetz will re-emerge and he will get booted with combined votes from Dems and moderate Republicans pissed off by this. That would be hugely satisfying. 

[The Dog 44019]

aaaand here's someone trying to blame the DEMOCRATS for this crisis. that was fast:

 

[Celery Man 20933]

this guy looks like the flustered maitre d' in a romcom

[wildcat09 29346]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

King of the Libertarians thinks the GOP is being rational and making good points. NO WAY

"They endorsed replacing the Dollar with Dogecoin and said that will neuter the Jews! Very thoughtful!" 

[SydneyCarton 48057]

2 minutes ago, The Dog said:

aaaand here's someone trying to blame the DEMOCRATS for this crisis. that was fast:

 

You don't fucking say?

 

 

McCarthy blamed the Democrats for trying to shut down the government too. 

 

[tokamak 6394]

So we basically have a parliamentary system now?