the 2023 speaker of the house voting thread of implosion

[Francisco 2.0 32395]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-republicans-bad-day-greene-motion-vacate-mike-johnson-speaker-rcna144713

 

Quote

Friday began with House conservatives holding a press conference to trash the $1.2 trillion spending bill their leaders negotiated with Democrats, sparking some fears about its prospects. 

It squeaked through — requiring 67% of the House, it ended up winning 68% — but a majority of Republicans voted against it.

It was just the first headache of the day for House Republicans as they adjourned for a two-week recess, offering a distillation of the infighting and disenchantment that continues to plague the party 15 months into its narrow majority. Things were about to get worse.

 

Quote

Moments later, far-right Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., shocked her colleagues by filing a motion to overthrow Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., blasting his stewardship of the chamber and threatening renewed turmoil at the helm of her party.

“It’s more of a warning than a pink slip,” Greene told reporters. “I do not wish to inflict pain on our conference and to throw the House in chaos. But this is basically a warning and it’s time for us to go through the process, take our time and find a new speaker of the House that will stand with Republicans and our Republican majority, instead of standing with the Democrats.”

She didn't formally trigger the vote, but it now hangs over Johnson's head as a warning sign if he steps out of line with her again. If she activates it, the House would have to vote within two legislative days, requiring a simple majority to evict Johnson. It reopened the wounds of former Speaker Kevin McCarthy's ouster last October and the three weeks of chaos as they tried to replace him.

 

Spoiler

Raj Shah, a spokesman for Johnson, said the speaker is “focused on governing” and “will continue to push conservative legislation.”

It was the last vote for Rep. Ken Buck, R-Colo., the conservative hardliner who was all but banished from the party after he insisted that its leaders stop spreading lies about the 2020 election and accept that former President Donald Trump lost. He resigned from Congress on Friday, leaving his seat empty for now.

Buck voted “no” on the spending bill, and said he’d have voted “hell no” if possible. But despite his unassailable fiscal conservative credentials, he lost his stature on the right for insisting his party reject the stolen election claims, reflecting a new litmus test.

On his way out the door, he signed two discharge petitions that could force votes on aid for Ukraine and other U.S. allies, an attempt to subvert Johnson's control of the House floor.

In the afternoon, Rep. Mike Gallagher, R-Wis., the rising star who recently said he’ll retire from Congress, announced he’ll be quitting early — on April 19. His move will further thin the GOP majority and risks leaving Johnson with a one-vote margin in the coming months.

Within moments of Gallagher’s move, House Appropriations Chair Kay Granger, R-Texas, made the unusual decision to step down early from her powerful post, asking Johnson to replace her as chair of the committee that doles out federal funding “as soon as possible.” In a letter, Granger said she has “accomplished more than I ever could have imagined,” and thanked Johnson for stepping up to lead “during a very tumultuous time.”

Granger already said she won’t seek re-election this fall. But her move to relinquish the coveted gavel mid-session highlights the paralysis that has defined the government funding process, which took four stopgap measures and six months into the fiscal year to resolve. The next funding deadline looms at the end of September.

Democrats were shocked by what they were witnessing.

“Absolutely incredible ‘last scene in a Godfather movie’ vibes in the U.S. House of Representatives today,” said Aaron Fritschner, deputy chief of staff for Rep. Don Beyer, D-Va.

Meanwhile, the expelled former congressman George Santos announced his plans to run as an independent in New York’s competitive 1st District on Long Island, which is currently held by Republican Rep. Nick LaLota. Santos, who had represented the Third District before he was expelled from the House, said he’ll run as an independent with “Ultra MAGA/Trump supporting values.”

Santos still has hurdles to clear before he can gain ballot access under New York law. But if he succeeds and pulls MAGA voters from LaLota, it could split the GOP vote and help Democrats.

“George Santos’ expulsion from Congress was good for the nation and his resignation from the Republican Party is good for commonsense conservatives,” LaLota, who led the push to expel Santos, said in a statement to NBC News. “Santos can watch me defend this important swing district and the November election results from his prison cell as he’s being held accountable for stealing an election and ripping off donors.”

Santos, who was expelled after fabricating much of his resume and charged in a 23-count federal indictment, said he’s leaving the GOP because he's embarrassed by it.

“The Republican Party continues to lie and swindle its voter base,” Santos wrote on X. “I in good conscience cannot affiliate myself with a party that stands for nothing and falls for everything.”

 

[tx ind 7013]

[TheStoicPaisano 9922]

 

[TDunk 590]

Quote

“It’s more of a warning than a pink slip"

Exactly how she warns her suitors. 

[hayden_horn 11362]

4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

It really is stunning how incompetent the Republicans are - they are making the Democrats look very competent.

They don’t want to be tainted by whatever they perceive up is coming.  Whether that’s bigly losses in November, or something coming out in public, there are Republicans giving up their seats early because they are done with this shitshow.  Something has to be driving this other than dealing with the MAGA idiots.

it's that russian nra dark money tho

check out tucker's weird hostage trip to a russian supermarket. there were lives on the line there i swear

[Pods 7586]

4 minutes ago, TDunk said:

Exactly how she warns her suitors. 

Club upside the head, before being drug back to her cave doesn't give a lot of of room for warning. 

That said, I guess we could consider the whistling sound of the club through the air to be a form of warning. 

[TDunk 590]

20 minutes ago, Pods said:

Club upside the head, before being drug back to her cave doesn't give a lot of of room for warning. 

That said, I guess we could consider the whistling sound of the club through the air to be a form of warning. 

That cave ain’t pink. 

[Pods 7586]

On 3/22/2024 at 10:44 PM, TDunk said:

That cave ain’t pink. 

Of course not. 

Cave people caves have cave paintings. Each visitor to the cave has left its mark on the wall, while being slowly digested.

Here's just a small assortment. 

 

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89730]

.

@SpeakerJohnson you can’t follow Christ and fund full term abortion clinics.

That’s the inconvenient truth.

And EVERY Republican in my conference that voted for the $1.2 TRILLION woke, trans ideology, DEI, Open Border Policy, abortion ABOMINATION omnibus that is upset with me, YOU should be outraged that your Speaker made you walk that plank for him in order to pay our military soldiers.

If House Republicans are lucky, Trump drags us across the line in November and we will still have the majority next Congress, but we won’t win the majority on our job performance!

After the Schumer/Johnson uniparty BETRAYAL bill, we have not put up the fight to give Conservative Republicans and America First voters across America any reason to want to vote for Republicans after Trump is gone.

Instead, under Speaker Johnson the House showed them a future Republican Party that not only did NOT listen to its voters, reminded them that the Swamp has its ways and will never change unless it is forced.

My motion to vacate is a force for change and Republicans better take it seriously and spend the necessary time planning and coming together for new leadership that will not serve the Uniparty, but instead holds firm to our convictions and the promises we make to the people who send us to represent them.

You might not like it but you know I’m right.

——

We missed this little gem a few days ago.  No idea if she has the votes, and some Republicans have mentioned that if she fucks around, they could end up with Speaker Jeffries.  A lot of Republicans are really pissed at her.

[royiv 9325]

If the unlikely happens and we end up with a Speaker Jeffries, it will be one of the most satisfying instance of finding out ever. Do it, GQP.

[Biff Tannen 45691]

6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

@SpeakerJohnson you can’t follow Christ and fund full term abortion clinics.

 

I don't see how these two are related.

[Keef 771]

Republicans run on the platform that the government doesn't work and always prove their proposition.

[Irwin F Fletcher 3550]

She doesn't have the toes to put up the motion to vacate.

[Sawbonz 27578]

Where are there federally funded  “full term” abortion clinics?

[atomheartbevo 89730]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Where are there federally funded  “full term” abortion clinics?

In the basement of a pizza parlor in D.C.  

DO YER OWN RESEERCH SHEEPLE

 

[TexasEd 8067]

5 hours ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:

She doesn't have the toes to put up the motion to vacate.

That’s a scene from Hamilton, You don’t have the toes. 

[swraith 347]

NYTimes The Daily podcast last week talked about Democrats possibly voting to save Johnson as Speaker in exchange for a floor vote on Ukraine aid. 

[Fastbreak 3988]

7 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

In the basement of a pizza parlor in D.C.  

DO YER OWN RESEERCH SHEEPLE

 

How do you think they get cheap "tomato" sauce?  Don't even ask about the Alfredo...

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

7 hours ago, royiv said:

If the unlikely happens and we end up with a Speaker Jeffries, it will be one of the most satisfying instance of finding out ever. Do it, GQP.

Wouldn’t it only take 1 or 2 of the GOP reps to announce that they’ve had enough and will caucus with the democrats? Seems like Jeffries could offer up some committee chairs to make that happen.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33874]

20 hours ago, royiv said:

If the unlikely happens and we end up with a Speaker Jeffries, it will be one of the most satisfying instance of finding out ever. Do it, GQP.

I've seen this sentiment posted a few times. For those of us that are not as familiar with House structural politics, can you explain HOW that scenario could come to light? Enough R's defect and vote on the D side to elect Jeffries? Is that all it is? Seems like there would be more to it, but maybe not

[Js1 85413]

1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I've seen this sentiment posted a few times. For those of us that are not as familiar with House structural politics, can you explain HOW that scenario could come to light? Enough R's defect and vote on the D side to elect Jeffries? Is that all it is? Seems like there would be more to it, but maybe not

That or a bunch more surprise GOP retirements. 

it's not going to happen, period.  It's April of an election year and the government is now funded through November.  Barring a big surprise, I do not foresee the House doing anything productive the rest of the year. Between the tiny majority and the House calendar, it's a lame duck Congress for the rest of the year. 

[royiv 9325]

Just now, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I've seen this sentiment posted a few times. For those of us that are not as familiar with House structural politics, can you explain HOW that scenario could come to light? Enough R's defect and vote on the D side to elect Jeffries? Is that all it is? Seems like there would be more to it, but maybe not

You’ve got it. What some people are saying is that the Ds could horse trade with a handful of Rs to get them to vote for Jeffries. What I think is more likely is the opposite, which would be for the Ds to horse trade with Johnson to save his ass. Whatever happens, it will be entertaining to watch the GQP infighting.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33874]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

That or a bunch more surprise GOP retirements. 

it's not going to happen, period.  It's April of an election year and the government is now funded through November.  Barring a big surprise, I do not foresee the House doing anything productive the rest of the year. Between the tiny majority and the House calendar, it's a lame duck Congress for the rest of the year. 

Thanks, that was what I thought but it seemed too simple. Also, didn't they already promise to pick up Ukraine aid after the Easter recess?

[Js1 85413]

7 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Thanks, that was what I thought but it seemed too simple. Also, didn't they already promise to pick up Ukraine aid after the Easter recess?

He did say he will bring a bill to the floor, but it doesn't sound like a clean Ukraine aid bill.  He floated calling it a loan or supplementing it via REPO - which would authorize Biden/the President to seize Russian assets and give them to Ukraine. 

Actually I am a-okay with that.  Because if Biden and the Dems win a trifecta in November, they can just forgive the loan, ya know. 

Edited April 1 by Js1

[atomheartbevo 89730]

 

[chainsaw 9870]

3 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

It was all a big misunderstanding!

[Red Five 40862]

Hand to hand combat with cops for hours. 

Cops/secret service guys called their loved ones to say goodbye because they didn't know if they would make it through the day alive.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

It was all a big misunderstanding!

I thought these podiums were free!

Just sickening. I hope that history looks back on these people as spineless cowards and traitors to the country. I'm not holding my breath.

[atomheartbevo 89730]

11 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I thought these podiums were free!

Just sickening. I hope that history looks back on these people as spineless cowards and traitors to the country. I'm not holding my breath.

He knows what really happened, but he’s trying to keep the Speakership and not get primaries.

Well, then again, the guy with no bank account maybe enough of a fucking dumbass to believe it,

[Brisketexan 105155]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

I'll say it again: any functioning country in the history of the world would have lined the insurrectionists up against the wall of the Capitol and executed them before the sun set that day.  Tours today would be able to point out the bullet pock-marks in the wall where the traitors were shot.

If you vote Republican, you support treason.  There is no ambiguity or hemming and hawing about it.  Party of treason.

[Sawbonz 27578]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

 

Josh just trying to get his steps in

[mdmost 43004]

1 hour ago, Red Five said:

Hand to hand combat with cops for hours. 

Cops/secret service guys called their loved ones to say goodbye because they didn't know if they would make it through the day alive.

Yeah but if those cops would've just let those guys, who were invited in, into the Capitol without trying to stop them, it all would've been magically peaceful. See it's the cops who were in the wrong. 

[tx ind 7013]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

 

Josh just trying to get his steps in

[atomheartbevo 89730]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'll say it again: any functioning country in the history of the world would have lined the insurrectionists up against the wall of the Capitol and executed them before the sun set that day.  Tours today would be able to point out the bullet pock-marks in the wall where the traitors were shot.

If you vote Republican, you support treason.  There is no ambiguity or hemming and hawing about it.  Party of treason.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33874]

3 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

It's not the "third" on this board that are mostly highly educated people that need this blasted in their face. It's the third or so of Americans sitting on their fucking thumbs, doing nothing to plant themselves on the right side of history; it's those people who will be marginalized first and when they're adequately pacified/indoctrinated they'll shift their attention to us. By then we'll be outnumbered. It's happened before. It's happening again. We can stop it. Time will tell if we will.

[hayden_horn 11362]

5 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

It's not the "third" on this board that are mostly highly educated people that need this blasted in their face. It's the third or so of Americans sitting on their fucking thumbs, doing nothing to plant themselves on the right side of history; it's those people who will be marginalized first and when they're adequately pacified/indoctrinated they'll shift their attention to us. By then we'll be outnumbered. It's happened before. It's happening again. We can stop it. Time will tell if we will.

mmm? there are a fuckload on this board oh fuck who cares

[YGIFS 19452]

13 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

It's not the "third" on this board that are mostly highly educated people that need this blasted in their face. It's the third or so of Americans sitting on their fucking thumbs, doing nothing to plant themselves on the right side of history; it's those people who will be marginalized first and when they're adequately pacified/indoctrinated they'll shift their attention to us. By then we'll be outnumbered. It's happened before. It's happening again. We can stop it. Time will tell if we will.

At an early age, I absorbed and followed the Pareto Principle.  The 80/20 rule.  It explained so much to me that was all around me.  

But I follow a different path nowadays.  Thirds.  About 1/3 of the adult population votes for Donald Trump.  About 1/3 of the adult population sits out elections.  And of the 74 million voters for Trump, we see that about 1/3 are just straight R-ballot clickers/Chamber of Commerce/country club Republicans.  Call 'em whatever you want, but they've always voted this way and they will continue to vote that way.  I know y'all think they're idiots, but most of 'em are decent folks who just pull that lever no matter what since Goldwater.  1/3 of his voters came out of the woodwork, that's how he won.  They finally felt validated and got a seat at the big kid's table of political engagement.  They'll fade back into obscurity after he's defeated and/or dies (despite a few mass shootings).  It's the middle 1/3 that puzzles me.  The folks that are civically engaged and vote, know what Trump is up to and all about, and still vote for him anyway.  That's the 1/3rd you have to worry about.  Most of them are fairly educated and people of faith, so how do they come to terms with their adoration of this man?  That's the thing we still don't understand after a decade.  Mike Johnson and Donald Trump and their ilk, they get 1/3rd straight ticket voters.  No point in over-analyzing it, just always gonna happen.  They get 1/3rd racist morons that feel their twisted value set is just kosher.  Was bound to happen as things change, and most of them will go away.  But that middle 1/3rd, what is their rationale?  They're not the morons you think they are, they had to justify in their heads.  And it was more than just owning the Libs.  And the fact that we simply do not understand, despite the research, how they came to these electoral conclusions worries me more than who they voted for.  What else are they capable/incapable of?  What happens next?  

[Dahobbs 17625]

29 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Most of them are fairly educated and people of faith, so how do they come to terms with their adoration of this man?  

People who claim to be someone "of faith" are the worst. The least shocking thing is that they would adore one of the worst people in American history. 

[Captainant 27680]

40 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

But that middle 1/3rd, what is their rationale?  They're not the morons you think they are, they had to justify in their heads.  And it was more than just owning the Libs.  And the fact that we simply do not understand, despite the research, how they came to these electoral conclusions worries me more than who they voted for.  What else are they capable/incapable of? 

Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug. Cocktail that with an upbringing that has groomed them to set aside cognitive dissonance in favor of """faith""" to resolve any logical inconsistencies, and you're looking at some fertile grounds for conmen and grifters. It's no wonder trump is trying to sell bibles to the true believers now - if builds a longer play of credibility for the intentionally uninformed middle third (read: people who "don't want to talk politics") to cast him as a faithful person.

These people keep voting for trump because they've been trained their whole lives to believe rather than to be critical. 

Edited April 3 by Captainant

[YGIFS 19452]

Yes, there are many despicable people who start conversations with "As a man of faith" or "As a student of the Constitution" or "As a scholar of history"...but that middle 1/3rd of MAGA cannot simply be dismissed as "Racist Stupids."  If we never understand their rationale or justifications, then we will repeat this again down the road.  "Every Trump voter is a racist moron."  Fine.  But there are the classic CoC straight ticket voters.  There are the literal morons in the IQ sense that make up the bottom 1/3rd.  But there is that middle 1/3rd bloc who belong to houses of worship, who have some modicum of higher education, who live and work among us every single day, who aren't proud of their support of Trump but pull the lever for him anyway.  I've told this csb before, but Matt Dowd and David Axelrod have been working on this at the University of Chicago for years under the auspices of their politics project.  And the University of Chicago has some pretty fucking smart math/stats people.  And they just finally gave up.  But we have to figure that middle slice out, because it's going to happen again.  And again.  And again.  Mainstream GOP'ers are a known quantity.  MAGA lunatics are now fairly obvious.  It's the middle third that may bring this nation to its knees.  It's how true evil gets emboldened.  All through the ages, the folks at the top of the chain support asshole leaders to stay rich.  We get it.  And then the bottom feeding morons support asshole leaders to feel like they're finally getting their revenge.  Rinse and repeat.  The true horror comes when the middle folks somehow convince themselves that the new asshole is the way to something different.  

Edited April 3 by YGIFS

[Captainant 27680]

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

It's the middle third that may bring this nation to its knees.  

They isolate themselves and stay away from politics because "it's all so gross now". They frame anything they dislike as political, and therefore rude, so they can shout down discussion of it and preempt even the smallest challenge of their norms. The middle third is too tolerant of intolerance, and I'm afraid there's just nothing that can be done about it until it directly confronts them. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the type of person to vote for the leopards eating faces party won't change until a leopard eats their face. Nothing is real to these unempathetic fucks until it directly affects them

[SydneyCarton 48110]

4 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Yes, there are many despicable people who start conversations with "As a man of faith" or "As a student of the Constitution" or "As a scholar of history"...but that middle 1/3rd of MAGA cannot simply be dismissed as "Racist Stupids."  If we never understand their rationale or justifications, then we will repeat this again down the road.  "Every Trump voter is a racist moron."  Fine.  But there are the classic CoC straight ticket voters.  There are the literal morons in the IQ sense that make up the bottom 1/3rd.  But there is that middle 1/3rd bloc who belong to houses of worship, who have some modicum of higher education, who live and work among us every single day, who aren't proud of their support of Trump but pull the lever for him anyway.  I've told this csb before, but Matt Dowd and David Axelrod have been working on this at the University of Chicago for years under the auspices of their politics project.  And the University of Chicago has some pretty fucking smart math/stats people.  And they just finally gave up.  But we have to figure that middle slice out, because it's going to happen again.  And again.  And again.  Mainstream GOP'ers are a known quantity.  MAGA lunatics are now fairly obvious.  It's the middle third that may bring this nation to its knees.  

I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but the whole notion of "Oh, it's the responsibility of this slice of people while being dismissive of the other 2 slices" I find to be complete bullshit. They all fucking vote the same. They're all responsible. And as shitty as it is, ALL of us are responsible becuase we sat aside and let morality get beaten by greed over the last 50 years, and let money into news reporting, dark money into politics, let our public education get gutted, and let wealth distribution, or lack therof, ensure there's a massive feeling of discontent all throughout America, and a huge chunk of which are too fucking stupid to even remotely get close to recognizing the culprits. 

[SydneyCarton 48110]

Just now, Captainant said:

They isolate themselves and stay away from politics because "it's all so gross now". They frame anything they dislike as political, and therefore rude, so they can shout down discussion of it and preempt even the smallest challenge of their norms. The middle third is too tolerant of intolerance, and I'm afraid there's just nothing that can be done about it until it directly confronts them. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the type of person to vote for the leopards eating faces party won't change until a leopard eats their face. Nothing is real to these unempathetic fucks until it directly affects them

Oftentimes, not even then. How many people have you run in that lost folks to covid that are staunchly anti-vax? It isn't the percetnage you'd assume. 

[Red Five 40862]

They isolate themselves and stay away from politics because "it's all so gross now". They frame anything they dislike as political, and therefore rude, so they can shout down discussion of it and preempt even the smallest challenge of their norms. The middle third is too tolerant of intolerance, and I'm afraid there's just nothing that can be done about it until it directly confronts them. 
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the type of person to vote for the leopards eating faces party won't change until a leopard eats their face. Nothing is real to these unempathetic fucks until it directly affects them

“I hate politics and I hate all politicians and I always vote Republican 100% of the time.”

Know a few of these.

[956 Worldwide 34715]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

Oftentimes, not even then. How many people have you run in that lost folks to covid that are staunchly anti-vax? It isn't the percetnage you'd assume. 

Many such cases. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21202]

Just now, Red Five said:

“I hate politics and I hate all politicians and I always vote Republican 100% of the time.”

Know a few of these.

Same and it's frustrating as fuck. 

[dcbc 14487]

3 minutes ago, Captainant said:

They isolate themselves and stay away from politics because "it's all so gross now". They frame anything they dislike as political, and therefore rude, so they can shout down discussion of it and preempt even the smallest challenge of their norms. The middle third is too tolerant of intolerance, and I'm afraid there's just nothing that can be done about it until it directly confronts them. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the type of person to vote for the leopards eating faces party won't change until a leopard eats their face. Nothing is real to these unempathetic fucks until it directly affects them

At this point, I've resigned myself to the fact that nearly all of his supporters who haven't seen the light simply are lost.  There is no reasonable discussion to be had.  When it comes to a couple of my family members, smart though they may otherwise appear, the best we can do is the detente of not talking about politics at all.

[YGIFS 19452]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but the whole notion of "Oh, it's the responsibility of this slice of people while being dismissive of the other 2 slices" I find to be complete bullshit. They all fucking vote the same. They're all responsible. And as shitty as it is, ALL of us are responsible becuase we sat aside and let morality get beaten by greed over the last 50 years, and let money into news reporting, dark money into politics, let our public education get gutted, and let wealth distribution, or lack therof, ensure there's a massive feeling of discontent all throughout America, and a huge chunk of which are too fucking stupid to even remotely get close to recognizing the culprits. 

I agree and am not trying to shift blame.  Just from a voter statistical analysis standpoint...we know and can predict how those other two slices will behave now and forever.  It's not rocket surgery.  It's existed for centuries.  I want to know why otherwise normal and somewhat educated people go for him.  When a shitbag like Trump can win over people like that, that's how evil empires are built.  He'll be gone soon enough, but somebody much, much smarter is going to steal his playbook and do this way, way better.  Nobody can take a day off.  

[hookem2010 2624]

1 minute ago, dcbc said:

At this point, I've resigned myself to the fact that nearly all of his supporters who haven't seen the light simply are lost.  There is no reasonable discussion to be had.  When it comes to a couple of my family members, smart though they may otherwise appear, the best we can do is the detente of not talking about politics at all.

This is where I've been at with my parents for the last 2 years. One the one hand, we're about to have 2 kids under 3 and could really use some help. On the other hand, I feel my blood boiling when the people they support continue to do things to jeopardize the future of their grandkids.

I did see a Nikki Haley mailer on their table though, so perhaps approaching the subject to see if there is any hope of AT LEAST getting them to fully leave MAGA Land behind would be a worthwhile exercise.

[SydneyCarton 48110]

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

I agree and am not trying to shift blame.  Just from a voter statistical analysis standpoint...we know and can predict how those other two slices will behave now and forever.  It's not rocket surgery.  It's existed for centuries.  I want to know why otherwise normal and somewhat educated people go for him.  When a shitbag like Trump can win over people like that, that's how evil empires are built.  He'll be gone soon enough, but somebody much, much smarter is going to steal his playbook and do this way, way better.  Nobody can take a day off.  

I get it man, but specifically saying "This is the segment that will bring America to it's knees" sure sounds like blame shifting. It's on all of us. You're right, nobody can take a day off.