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the 2023 speaker of the house voting thread of implosion

henrygandorf

By henrygandorf
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locodos

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I feel like a decent portion of this thread is wishcasting.  The dangerous and deranged folks are not going to just slink away.  They're going to be a problem.  You know the assholes who claim to want small government, but say that they need to "bleed the beast" by taking as much public money as they can figure out how to scam.  The same folks who post 
"at some point good men will have to do bad things"   

 

Those traitorous assholes are a big problem and there is a whole industry set up to monetize and normalize them.

 

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The Dog

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2 minutes ago, locodos said:

I feel like a decent portion of this thread is wishcasting.  The dangerous and deranged folks are not going to just slink away.  They're going to be a problem.  You know the assholes who claim to want small government, but say that they need to "bleed the beast" by taking as much public money as they can figure out how to scam.  The same folks who post 
"at some point good men will have to do bad things"   

 

Those traitorous assholes are a big problem and there is a whole industry set up to monetize and normalize them.

 

I agree with the sentiment that they aren't "going away." 

But make no mistake they are doing serious damage to their brand by shanking each other out in the open like this.

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locodos

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Just now, The Dog said:

I agree with the sentiment that they aren't "going away." 

But make no mistake they are doing serious damage to their brand by shanking each other out in the open like this.

I'm talking about the boys in Eastern Washington St, Idaho, etc...  They aren't watching CSPAN.  Or TV at all.

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Dbeasy

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Multiple smart people on this thread have argued that the Democrats should just stand by and watch the shit show, believing that it’s damaging the republican party. I just don’t agree.

The Democrats had an opportunity to help elect a speaker who’s only mostly a moron. They should have jumped at the opportunity to help him get over the hump. Things are going to get dangerous from here on out. Trump gains power from this shit show. 

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Captainant

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7 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Multiple smart people on this thread have argued that the Democrats should just stand by and watch the shit show, believing that it’s damaging the republican party. I just don’t agree.

The Democrats had an opportunity to help elect a speaker who’s only mostly a moron. They should have jumped at the opportunity to help him get over the hump. Things are going to get dangerous from here on out. Trump gains power from this shit show. 

You want to play appeasement with the fucking fascists in our Congress? That historically doesn't work out that great. 

Because I don't see any way to get republicans onboard without playing footsie with some of their awful shit

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Zonahorn

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7 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Multiple smart people on this thread have argued that the Democrats should just stand by and watch the shit show, believing that it’s damaging the republican party. I just don’t agree.

The Democrats had an opportunity to help elect a speaker who’s only mostly a moron. They should have jumped at the opportunity to help him get over the hump. Things are going to get dangerous from here on out. Trump gains power from this shit show. 

The most acceptable Republican didn’t even get a floor vote. This is the GQP mess, they can deal with it

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Chuckie Finster

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9 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Multiple smart people on this thread have argued that the Democrats should just stand by and watch the shit show, believing that it’s damaging the republican party. I just don’t agree.

The Democrats had an opportunity to help elect a speaker who’s only mostly a moron. They should have jumped at the opportunity to help him get over the hump. Things are going to get dangerous from here on out. Trump gains power from this shit show. 

There was never an official vote for Emmer, probably for this very reason.  

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Bozo_Casanova

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10 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

The Democrats had an opportunity to help elect a speaker who’s only mostly a moron. They should have jumped at the opportunity to help him get over the hump. Things are going to get dangerous from here on out. Trump gains power from this shit show. 

Yeah … I’m going to have to go ahead and sort of *disagree* with you there

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Hugo Stiglitz

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8 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Multiple smart people on this thread have argued that the Democrats should just stand by and watch the shit show, believing that it’s damaging the republican party. I just don’t agree.

The Democrats had an opportunity to help elect a speaker who’s only mostly a moron. They should have jumped at the opportunity to help him get over the hump. Things are going to get dangerous from here on out. Trump gains power from this shit show. 

Republicans are not giving Democrats the opportunity to bail them out.  They aren’t taking votes to the floor.  It’s just a circular firing squad in a DC basement and Dems are not invited.  Dems only move at this time is as bystanders.

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sasquatch69

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21 hours ago, Bullneck said:

This is a stupid post.  

I fully realize this is largely the GOP’s doing, and the term “both sides” is too loaded to use at this point, so I retract that - but seriously, the podcast episode  covers a lot of the background behind deficit spending and the politics around it. As a history buff it was really interesting and didn’t push into false-equivalency territory - apologies if I made it sound that way. 

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Foosters

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11 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Multiple smart people on this thread have argued that the Democrats should just stand by and watch the shit show, believing that it’s damaging the republican party. I just don’t agree.

The Democrats had an opportunity to help elect a speaker who’s only mostly a moron. They should have jumped at the opportunity to help him get over the hump. Things are going to get dangerous from here on out. Trump gains power from this shit show. 

que?

 

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A-Tex Devil

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5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Multiple smart people on this thread have argued that the Democrats should just stand by and watch the shit show, believing that it’s damaging the republican party. I just don’t agree.

The Democrats had an opportunity to help elect a speaker who’s only mostly a moron. They should have jumped at the opportunity to help him get over the hump. Things are going to get dangerous from here on out. Trump gains power from this shit show. 

It's pretty much game theory to me - a twist on prisoners' dilemma. Yeah, the best outcome for all is to cooperate, but Dems can't trust GOP to keep their word if they supported McCarthy or others.  So it's absolutely rational, and the right decision without reliable cooperation, to vote for Jeffries as a block and let the GOP figure it out.  Because whatever the outcome comes from that decision, it's better than getting shivved by the Republicans after trying to help the less crazy wing of their party out.  

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5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Multiple smart people on this thread have argued that the Democrats should just stand by and watch the shit show, believing that it’s damaging the republican party. I just don’t agree.

The Democrats had an opportunity to help elect a speaker who’s only mostly a moron. They should have jumped at the opportunity to help him get over the hump. Things are going to get dangerous from here on out. Trump gains power from this shit show. 

Saying the Dems could have changed this is using Republican framing.

First, you're assuming that the Dems could even fix this, when they likely can't. Neither the GQP, or the GOP are operating in good faith. If the Dems announce they are amenable to compromise and would support a particular candidate, any GOP support for that person will immediately evaporate the second the Dems come out in favor of them.

It only leaves Dems looking stupid and impotent, with blame falling on them for what is currently exclusively a GOP/GQP feud. 

Dems have been remarkably consistent and should stay the course and watch the GOP/GQP fracture. IF the + Biden district reps ever want to be elected again, they can flip parties to the only functional one in existence, or they can reap the consequences of their own failures and get voted out. 

The future of Democracy itself is on the line and we need to take the chemo sometime. It's always better to do it as soon as possible, before it metastasizes further. 

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Dbeasy

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2 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

It's pretty much game theory to me - a twist on prisoners' dilemma. Yeah, the best outcome for all is to cooperate, but Dems can't trust GOP to keep their word if they supported McCarthy or others.  So it's absolutely rational, and the right decision without reliable cooperation, to vote for Jeffries as a block and let the GOP figure it out.  Because whatever the outcome comes from that decision, it's better than getting shivved by the Republicans after trying to help the less crazy wing of their party out.  

The key question none of us know the answer to is whether there have been discussions and whether there was a potential deal there or not that the Dems turned down. It is difficult to speculate without knowing the answer, but IF they are just sitting back and not working options in private with moderates, then I believe that is a mistake. Helping a moderate to get back in control helps advance bipartisan legislation. 

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Brisketexan

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Just now, Dbeasy said:

The key question none of us know the answer to is whether there have been discussions and whether there was a potential deal there or not that the Dems turned down. It is difficult to speculate without knowing the answer, but IF they are just sitting back and not working options in private with moderates, then I believe that is a mistake. Helping a moderate to get back in control helps advance bipartisan legislation. 

No.  That should not be the goal.  Two things can happen here (and note, I actually think the first one is a fantasy, but let's assume it's not):

1) The Dems work with the Repubs to elect a RELATIVE moderate as speaker, so important govt business gets done.

2) The Dems sit back and watch the Repubs destroy themselves as a viable political party.

Long-term, option 2 is infinitely better for the Republic.  It sucks and hurts today....but so does chemo.  In the long-run, you get rid of cancer, though.  So, it's worth it.

The cancer that is the GQP has grown so large and virulent that it is now consuming itself.  Good.

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shakahorn

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25 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I read stuff like this and I think to myself about how insanely brainwashed you have to be to believe that. Millions of these rubes littered from coast-to-coast really believe this. I almost wish Biden would just come out and say I’m handing everyone’s SSI checks that believe this to a deserving undocumented migrant instead. 

He should put a huge Joseph R. Biden signature on the checks.

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Bullneck

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50 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

The Democrats had an opportunity to help elect a speaker who’s only mostly a moron. They should have jumped at the opportunity to help him get over the hump. Things are going to get dangerous from here on out. Trump gains power from this shit show. 

1) Of whom are you speaking?

2) Why would we help elect someone like that?

3) Do you not believe the failure of the GQP to elect a speaker will result in a coalition government with a different set of House rules (MTV) and more sensible legislation than what a mostly moron might do?

4) Trump is running out of runway.  He'll be a non-factor this time next year.  

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8 minutes ago, sasquatch69 said:

I fully realize this is largely the GOP’s doing, and the term “both sides” is too loaded to use at this point, so I retract that - but seriously, the podcast episode  covers a lot of the background behind deficit spending and the politics around it. As a history buff it was really interesting and didn’t push into false-equivalency territory - apologies if I made it sound that way. 

Both sides is a loaded term, because it's always a bullshit copout that obfuscates the actual problem and dissuades us from attempting to fix the actual problem.

Our massive deficits are because the Republican solution to everything for over 40 years has been to cut taxes on corporations and the ultra-wealthy, while exploding spending using their 2 Santas philosophy.

https://www.salon.com/2018/02/12/thom-hartmann-how-the-gop-used-a-two-santa-clauses-tactic-to-con-america-for-nearly-40-years_partner/

Republicans have spent 4 decades intentionally, and systematically, underfunding the government and not paying for the huge amounts of spending THEY have authorized. It's blatant dishonesty and and shameless politics.

We only hear Republicans cry about spending when the President is a Democrat. Our deficits under Republicans explode, while the deficits contract under Democratic presidents. 

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A-Tex Devil

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32 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

The key question none of us know the answer to is whether there have been discussions and whether there was a potential deal there or not that the Dems turned down. It is difficult to speculate without knowing the answer, but IF they are just sitting back and not working options in private with moderates, then I believe that is a mistake. Helping a moderate to get back in control helps advance bipartisan legislation. 

Whether or not there have been discussions doesn’t matter.  Biden thought he had a deal with McCarthy and McCarthy backed out.  Any promises of cooperation can’t be trusted so it’s rational to then not help. 

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atomheartbevo

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1 hour ago, locodos said:

I feel like a decent portion of this thread is wishcasting.  The dangerous and deranged folks are not going to just slink away.  They're going to be a problem.  You know the assholes who claim to want small government, but say that they need to "bleed the beast" by taking as much public money as they can figure out how to scam.  The same folks who post 
"at some point good men will have to do bad things"   

Counterpoint: They couldn't get their picks over the hump last week - Gym was their standard bearer, and even with a public vote, there were enough who wouldn't support him. The moment it went to secret ballot, it was clear that a huge chunk of the House GOP hates him.

1 hour ago, locodos said:

I'm talking about the boys in Eastern Washington St, Idaho, etc...  They aren't watching CSPAN.  Or TV at all.

But they will also never accept anybody but an election-denying MAGAt, and a large enough chunk of the House GOP has shown they don't want that.  

Which is why we have this stalemate.

Wishcasting in this instance, would be the the hardcore MAGA Republicans (Gym, Matt, Boebert, etc.) are too afraid of sending Emmer or somebody considered a moderate/RINO by Trump/Gym/Matt to a floor vote, for fears that the Dems will put him or her over the top after having arranged a deal with him/her.  So the Republicans will not be sending anybody to a full floor vote until things get much worse.

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bolverk

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1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

And yeah--there are going to be some Fox News watchers who are going to be all "but it's the Democrats who voted to shitcan Kevin McCarthy."  Whatever.  Let me tell you something about those assholes: they're in it for Team Red.  And you know what's not fun?  Watching Team Red fight amongst itself.  Sorry, my sweet fans of the Spring Game, but watching your team kick the shit out of itself isn't very entertaining.  And like it or not, a whole bunch of MAGAts care about politics solely for the team-sport aspect of it.  Take that away, and they go back to watching Dancing with the Stars.

 

This cannot be overemphasized. Most of us here are from Texas and know multiple otherwise okay people who only vote the way they do because they've been led to believe R=good and D=bad. End of any thought process. I suspect our friend, Dbeasy, is a victim of this kind of Pavlovian response. Something bad happened? Blame. The. Democrats. 

A majority of Texans don't pay attention to shit (if they notice something, they'll reflexively click the remote to FOX), don't understand shit about fuck, and don't think things through. Hell, the majority of adult Texans don't even fucking vote.

It's only a fucking team sport to them, built from years of social indoctrination, lack of civic education/engagement, and the comfort of privilege. Maybe an extended government shutdown would be good in the long-term as people might, perhaps, maybe grock that a little government ain't such a bad thing.

Right now, it's just another teevee show to them.

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