the 2023 speaker of the house voting thread of implosion

[Beau Vine 53978]

Chip nominates Byron Donald.

[Pato del Muerto 52336]

2 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

RG3 is that you?

Obviously not. 

[C-Man 27029]

4 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Really didn't think it would come to this but if McCarthy can't get the votes the name I see mentioned in articles is Fred Upton (as in Kate's uncle and retired Michigan rep).

And I don't read the "start with Kevin" line as expecting Democrats to support McCarthy but rather they should try to do everything they can to get him elected Speaker before moving on to other options. 

Mick Mulvaney floated Upton's name yesterday on CNN after Congress recessed for the night.

 

1 minute ago, bernorange said:

I have not read this entire thread, so apologies if already posted, but, and dumb question amnesty requested:

The Rs have a slight majority, so obviously a D isn't going to get elected as Speaker.  Wouldn't it be a 5D chess move for the Ds to support (ie. vote for) a moderate R for Speaker?  I realize this might seem like a dumb idea on the surface, but the ramifications of doing it seem to perhaps have more nuance/depth than a surface reaction might evoke.  Thwart the Trumpist wing soundly, perhaps weaken the R Speaker's position within his/her party, perhaps engender some tit for tat/leverage with the R Speaker, etc.

Scroll up to post #552 in this thread. Sounds like that idea might be getting bandied about.

[Gatorubet 30083]

35 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

Lou is truly mental.   This is fun stuff.   Trump will not let this aggression stand, man!

[hobbes2702 12791]

2 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Mick Mulvaney floated Upton's name yesterday on CNN after Congress recessed for the night.

 

Scroll up to post #552 in this thread. Sounds like that idea might be getting bandied about.

Why would dems do that? There’s no advantage for the dems to agree on a compromise candidate. If pubs want to compromise tell them they can vote Jeffries or they can continue pantsing themselves 

[WhatTheBuck 28703]

47 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Trump (or his advisers) have to be working some game here.   Backing McCarthy "should" get the Gosars, Biggs and Roys to go along.   The fact that they aren't means something else is going on here.   My guess is that Trump is saying one thing out loud (Back McCarthy) doing another in the background (Telling the Freedom Caucus to fight it.)  He's trying to take down McCarthy because Kevin is a threat to him.  Whether that's real or imagined doesn't really matter.

I don’t think Trump is that much of a strategist. And who are his advisers? He doesn’t take advice from anyone unless they’re telling him what he wants to hear. Or if they’re his lawyers telling him he can’t do something or he’ll go to jail. If he can’t stump for a candidate or (ha ha, yeah, right) give them money, I just don’t know what power he has right now. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see but my money is on him not having much sway on who is the next Speaker. 

[Gatorubet 30083]

7 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Just wanting to get the fuck out of Alabama and do something meaningful.

Counterpoint: leaving Alabama is something meaningful in and of itself.

[The Dog 43784]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

Why would dems do that? There’s no advantage for the dems to agree on a compromise candidate. If pubs want to compromise tell them they can vote Jeffries or they can continue pantsing themselves 

They would get significant power sharing concessions including chairs of committees. 

[hobbes2702 12791]

2 minutes ago, The Dog said:

They would get significant power sharing concessions including chairs of committees. 

Meh. Let them implode. Show up for every single vote and vote Jeffries over and over. Make pubs continue to show up and vote.

Edited January 4, 2023 by hobbes2702

[Gatorubet 30083]

6 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Mick Mulvaney floated Upton's name yesterday on CNN after Congress recessed for the night.

Might work. 

[The Dog 43784]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Meh. Let them implode. Show up for every single vote and vote Jeffries over and over. Make pubs continue to show up and vote.

if the opportunity presents itself you see if it works because then the Democrats get a LOT more than they would have otherwise as the minority party. 

while the shitshow is entertaining the possibility of moving your agenda forward (even if slower) is much, much more palatable. 

[Beau Vine 53978]

We're in the C's and so far McCarthy has picked up zero votes; the same 4 people have voted for Donalds as voted for Gym.  

Mike Cloud can put it to bed in a second here.  

[Bama Chick 28596]

Counterpoint: leaving Alabama is something meaningful in and of itself.

Yeah but that don’t pay the bills, man.

[Beau Vine 53978]

1 minute ago, The Dog said:

if the opportunity presents itself you see if it works because then the Democrats get a LOT more than they would have otherwise as the minority party. 

while the shitshow is entertaining the possibility of moving your agenda forward (even if slower) is much, much more palatable. 

If McCarthy cuts any deals for Dem votes, he's going to lose double the votes from the nutbags in his party who are currently voting for him.  

[Ghost of LL 15469]

Well, there you are--McCarthy won't have a majority on the fourth vote.

[Beau Vine 53978]

6 votes now for Donalds, though we don't know what the denominator will be.

[henrygandorf 29174]

1 minute ago, Bama Chick said:

Yeah but that don’t pay the bills, man.

government work isn't known for their fat salaries neither, unfortunately.

Just now, Ghost of LL said:

Well, there you are--McCarthy won't have a majority on the fourth vote.

he almost made it to the d's though, so...

[Js1 85085]

8 minutes ago, The Dog said:

They would get significant power sharing concessions including chairs of committees. 

If Dems *had* to cut a deal, I'd demand Judiciary Chair be a Dem and cut Jordan off at the knees.  Or else no deal. 

[WhatTheBuck 28703]

Five votes for Donalds. McCarthy lost again. 

Edited January 4, 2023 by WhatTheBuck

[YGIFS 19449]

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

government work isn't known for their fat salaries neither, unfortunately.

he almost made it to the d's though, so...

Big deal, South Austin's Mom made it through all the D's.  And she's a goddamn champ if you ask me.

[hobbes2702 12791]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

If Dems *had* to cut a deal, I'd demand Judiciary Chair be a Dem and cut Jordan off at the knees.  Or else no deal. 

Yup. It’s not enough to get a couple chairs. We would need to control specific chairs and powerful ones. Even with a compromise the pubs wouldn’t do that.

[Hornius Emeritus 12408]

19 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Just wanting to get the fuck out of Alabama and do something meaningful.

And this is what you'd choose?

[Brisketexan 104537]

McCarthy, on repeat:

And, a placeholder for the NEXT vote:

[atomheartbevo 89395]

20 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Lou is truly mental.   This is fun stuff.   Trump will not let this aggression stand, man!

He can't, because he can't risk Lou going over to DeSantis.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33831]

[BevoAbyss 2057]

45 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Typically, when things were still functional, you could horse trade and negotiate with the other guy because he wanted something. These folks want nothing. They have no plan or goal other than to burn it all down. These men are nihilists, Donny.

Correction. They are fascists and theocrats. The believe a mythic God has their backs, they believe in a mythic America ruled under the sacred scrolls of the Bible, they believe they should have total state power to implement that vision.

They are nowhere near nihilists.

As for their plan, I summarized it upthread:

"They have American women living in The Handmaid's Tale, they are coming for all reproductive rights and contraception, they are still working on the border wall, they are humiliating migrants by busing them to cities, they are coming after the rights of LGBTQIA communities and people of color, they are banning books (the burning of books is coming), they are planning on overturning elections, they are in denial of climate disruption (we are way beyond merely "changing" the climate), they are attacking science with complete idiocy, from evolution to Covid. The list of targets will keep expanding. Eventually, they'll be coming after the non-believers in religion. It's only a matter of time."

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by BevoAbyss

[WBT 20411]

All those people that want parliamentary government in the us must be loving this!

[Beau Vine 53978]

3 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

He can't, because he can't risk Lou going over to DeSantis.

Do you really think Trump is going to do that calculus when he reads that tweet while he's sitting on the shitter with his phone?

 

[Ghost of LL 15469]

McCarthy just lost another.  Was it Gym?

[A-Tex Devil 2445]

26 minutes ago, bernorange said:

I have not read this entire thread, so apologies if already posted, but, and dumb question amnesty requested:

The Rs have a slight majority, so obviously a D isn't going to get elected as Speaker.  Wouldn't it be a 5D chess move for the Ds to support (ie. vote for) a moderate R for Speaker?  I realize this might seem like a dumb idea on the surface, but the ramifications of doing it seem to perhaps have more nuance/depth than a surface reaction might evoke.  Thwart the Trumpist wing soundly, perhaps weaken the R Speaker's position within his/her party, perhaps engender some tit for tat/leverage with the R Speaker, etc.

I am just noodling on this for fun. Not saying I agree with it.  
 

But is the idea to trial balloon a group of Dems voting for a moderate Republican in a vote to create momentum and get the folks supporting Kevin to consider to switch to that person in subsequent vote?
 

I don’t think prisoners’ dilemma game theory would allow for it, but that outcome is nice because it sidelined the 20 never Kevins and probably folks like MTG as well. 

[Gatorubet 30083]

5 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

He can't, because he can't risk Lou going over to DeSantis.

Donald Trump has the self restraint and strategic chops to recognize that - and just sit on being dissed in public?     Maybe. Maybe not. 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Gatorubet

[henrygandorf 29174]

11 minutes ago, Js1 said:

If Dems *had* to cut a deal, I'd demand Judiciary Chair be a Dem and cut Jordan off at the knees.  Or else no deal. 

i wouldn't even start entertaining offers until next week.

make it clear that we're in absolutely no hurry.

until then, the answer to "what do you want?" is "the mother fucking gavel".

[Aqua Buddha 14501]

Serious question.  What are the odds of 20-30 moderate Republicans (if they exist) cutting a deal with the Dems which would make Jeffries Speaker and split the committee chairs?

Dems have all the leverage here and don't need to help the Republicans while they're stepping on their dicks.  Also, I don't see any other Republican being acceptable to the entire Republican caucus.

[tx 3 putt 76294]

What are those 20 holding out for ?

money ?

[Beau Vine 53978]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

McCarthy just lost another.  Was it Gym?

I think he's lost exactly the same people as yesterday.  Luna should be 13 very soon, then Miller.

[DigglerontheHoof 21044]

So exactly who could the more "normal" Reps nominate that the 20 loons would vote for?

[The Dog 43784]

 

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

 

[atomheartbevo 89395]

4 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Donald Trump has the self restraint and strategic chops to recognize that - and just sit on being dissed in public?     Maybe. Maybe not. 

He'll either go after Low-Ratings Lou, or he'll talk to him privately somehow and get him back on his side.

[Beau Vine 53978]

1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

What are those 20 holding out for ?

money ?

Chaos.

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89395]

3 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

What are those 20 holding out for ?

money ?

There's blood in the water, and this is a chance to knock McCarthy out now, rather than wait for the Dems to do it.

And arguably Boebert, Gaetz, etc. are at their peak power/influence right now.  They'll never have this much influence again.

[atomheartbevo 89395]

 

[Beau Vine 53978]

9 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

I don’t think prisoners’ dilemma game theory would allow for it, but that outcome is nice because it sidelined the 20 never Kevins and probably folks like MTG as well. 

Prisoners' dilemma doesn't apply here:

Quote

The Prisoner's Dilemma is a game analyzed in game theory. It is a thought experiment that challenges two completely rational agents to a dilemma: cooperate with their partner for mutual reward, or betray their partner for individual reward.

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Beau Vine

[henrygandorf 29174]

4 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Chaos.

[henrygandorf 29174]

10 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Serious question.  What are the odds of 20-30 moderate Republicans (if they exist) cutting a deal with the Dems which would make Jeffries Speaker and split the committee chairs?

Dems have all the leverage here and don't need to help the Republicans while they're stepping on their dicks.  Also, I don't see any other Republican being acceptable to the entire Republican caucus.

yesterday i would've said there was no compromise possible.  but after gaetz's eviction letter, i think just about everything is on the table.

[YGIFS 19449]

I'm thinking this is more akin to the 2 Sentries guarding the two doors.  One Sentry can only lie, the other can only tell the truth.  One door is the Speaker of the House position and untold power.  Other door is retiring in shame in Bakersfield, CA of all places.  McCarthy can ask only one question of one Sentry and is forced to choose a door after hearing the answer.  What does Kevin do?

[Beau Vine 53978]

Serious question -- WTF did the GOP spend all yesterday evening and last night doing?  

The exact same people who voted for Gym have voted for Donalds.

[Pato del Muerto 52336]

[Bateshorn 9897]

44 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Off topic - but @Bateshorn your career is so fascinating to me. Any way a 50 year old liberal woman from Alabama - with no career experience in politics - can get in the door?

I have a Masters and did sales, marketing, hospital administration for 25 years.

Just wanting to get the fuck out of Alabama and do something meaningful.

Traditionally people get admin or hill jobs by working as interns or on campaigns. From there they transition into private life either lobbying, non profit, etc.  

My advice is to get involved with politics at a local level: volunteering in campaigns, local advocacy groups, etc.  there’s a bit of  right place at the right time component to it, but the first thing you have to do is be politics adjacent.  You could apply for internships, but much like line chef, that’s a young persons game. 
 

The federal government is always hiring, but those jobs are highly specialized and you need to know someone on the inside. I’m happy to start an AMA if there’s interest.  

Assuming you aren’t  hitbyAtrain of course…..

Edited January 4, 2023 by Bateshorn

[Aqua Buddha 14501]

Just now, Beau Vine said:

Serious question -- WTF did the GOP spend all yesterday evening and last night doing?  

The exact same people who voted for Gym have voted for Donalds.

I guess just eating pizza.