the 2023 speaker of the house voting thread of implosion

[Brisketexan 104465]

6 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

I just think that the USA, with economic problems at home (e.g. inflation, housing, etc.) has already given $80bn to Ukraine's war effort. I think Europe as a whole continent of countries have given ~$90bn?

Instead of looking to USA to carry the lion share of the load here indefinitely, all I'm saying is to add some accountability for others to help support Ukraine.

It should be a source of embarrassment to Ukraine's brother and sister countries and land (neighbors, etc.) that Russia with the help of NK/China are able to out-produce and out-gun Ukraine with the whole of NATO/EU behind them. Those countries ought to be subsidizing the majority of the war and yes, America should too, but not disproportionately IMO. And I don't think it's that wildly offensive of an opinion and one shared by many.

To the point of this thread, I think it's stupid to hold the money hostage, but I also think it's stupid to just be a revolving door and blank check go brrrrrrffftttttt (or even have the optics of it) when domestically we have our own financial issues (see: Inflation report this week).

 

Just now, The Royal We said:

JFC, we're not sending them big brown bags with a green dollar sign on the side stuffed full of cash.

You further beclown yourself when you say ignorant ass shit like we can't give them a blank check. Literally no one is suggesting that.

This.

Animal Tobacco is a dumbass motherfucker, spouting propaganda.  He's an idiot or an operative, or both.

1 -- There are minimal "cash" contributions happening here.  They are almost all in-kind contributions of mostly outdated hardware and weapons.

2 -- The comparison of value of contributions makes him look like even MORE of a fucking dumbass.  Compare the contribution as a percentage of GDP: in 2022, the GDP of the EU and UK was around $20 trillion....the GDP of the USA was around $25 trillion.  The EU and UK GDP was 80% the size of our GDP, yet they contributed 12% MORE to the war effort.  You just made yourself look like a complete dumbass -- per dollar of GDP, they contribute substantially MORE than we do, you fucking dumbass.  It IS disproportionate.....THE OTHER FUCKING WAY THAN THE ONE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT, YOU IGNORANT, LYING, BAD-AT-MATH PIECE OF FUCKING EXCREMENT SPEWED FROM PUTIN'S ANUS.

3 -- The ONLY reason that Russia and its allies are able to "out produce and outgun" Ukraine is because....and follow me here, this is really important....Russia and its allies are pumping everything they have into the war effort, whereas the West is having its armament apparatus held hostage BY FUCKING POLITICIANS WHO ARE COMPROMISED BY THE FUCKING RUSSIANS.  If the West simply poured in the resources that we have and that Ukraine is asking for, Ukraine actually fucking outguns Russia.  The ONLY disadvantage should be how much meat they have to throw at the effort.  And when it's an existential crisis, you find the fucking meat.

In summary, fuck yourself to hell, and I hope that one day your family finds itself in a Bucha and that when you cry for help....it is as forthcoming as the help you would have us withhold.  If you are okay with atrocities, may you have them visited upon you so that you may fully enjoy them.

[Foosters 17691]

but now that you bring it up, is there a money printer we could lend Ukraine? I like that idea 

[Smax 3799]

Why haven't "we" tapped into the $300 billion frozen Russian asset yet? I assume because its unprecedented but given what's at stake and the maga morons strangle on congress, isn't it time?

The west should tell Russia, this is where we are at, cease all hostilities and retreat or we are going to start liquidating Russian assets to pay for the war and in all honesty we should do it anyways and put some of it aside to pay for rebuilding.

Give Ukraine more offensive weapons and take the restraint off, let Ukraine send missiles and drones into Moscow on the reg and see how they like it

[956 Worldwide 34314]

17 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

I don't. I'm for approving the $60bn and like I said, I think it's stupid to hold it hostage (especially if it's still being held hostage for border walls or whatever that ignorant stuff was. It reminds me of Abbott's idiocy to hold the ISD money until he gets his stupid vouchers).

But what I do want is, even if it's limited, some sort of assurance that we we are going to be limiting our funding footprint after this and demanding others step up and take a bigger role.

And if India gets called to the carpet for their sinister pro-Russia behavior as part of that, even better!

I have to run for real now. I love you, man.

This is what DJT said about Ukraine earlier today:

Quote

“We keep handing out gifts of billions and billions of dollars, and we’ll take a look at it,” Trump continued. “But much more importantly to me is the fact that Europe has to step up, and they have to give money. They have to equalize. If they don’t equalize I’m very upset about it, because they’re affected much more than we are.”

Almost word for word, with slightly worse syntax, to what you’re posting here.  This is the man you’re turning to for your thoughts on strategic competition and American leadership against autocracy:

 

That’s clown shit man. Clown shit. Ask yourself how you got here and if you’re proud. 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

22 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

I don't. I'm for approving the $60bn and like I said, I think it's stupid to hold it hostage (especially if it's still being held hostage for border walls or whatever that ignorant stuff was. It reminds me of Abbott's idiocy to hold the ISD money until he gets his stupid vouchers).

But what I do want is, even if it's limited, some sort of assurance that we we are going to be limiting our funding footprint after this and demanding others step up and take a bigger role.

And if India gets called to the carpet for their sinister pro-Russia behavior as part of that, even better!

I have to run for real now. I love you, man.

We're not giving money and resources away,  we are investing it.  We're investing in a country being a wall to protecting the rest of Europe.  Investing in our own industry by showing off to the world how effective our old and new military equipment is. Investing in our own soldiers by limiting possible NATO war and face to face conflict.  Investing in a future partner and NATO ally with a very capable society.  The ROI on this stands to be massive considering the circumstances forced onto the world by Putin and his alliances.

Edited April 12 by SmokeyTheBear

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

1 hour ago, BeardIP said:

I just think that the USA, with economic problems at home (e.g. inflation, housing, etc.) has already given $80bn to Ukraine's war effort. I think Europe as a whole continent of countries have given ~$90bn?

Instead of looking to USA to carry the lion share of the load here indefinitely, all I'm saying is to add some accountability for others to help support Ukraine.

It should be a source of embarrassment to Ukraine's brother and sister countries and land (neighbors, etc.) that Russia with the help of NK/China are able to out-produce and out-gun Ukraine with the whole of NATO/EU behind them. Those countries ought to be subsidizing the majority of the war and yes, America should too, but not disproportionately IMO. And I don't think it's that wildly offensive of an opinion and one shared by many.

To the point of this thread, I think it's stupid to hold the money hostage, but I also think it's stupid to just be a revolving door and blank check go brrrrrrffftttttt (or even have the optics of it) when domestically we have our own financial issues (see: Inflation report this week).

You need to stop thinking in terms of dollars. We aren’t sending them cash or wiring them dollars.  
 

we are giving them older, useful stuff to fight with.  Things that we want to replace or have replaced and are spending money to securely store. 
 

then we are spending our money to replace that stuff with the stuff we want.  Which puts money into our economy, secures jobs, fattens the MIC which is always hungry, and updates our military inventory. 
 

yeah, there could be some money spent on excess dumb shells manufactured specifically to give to Ukraine but that’s a small portion of an overall aid package. 
 

and maybe there’s humanitarian aid in included and some of the same benefits occur outside the defense contractor ecosystem. 

[Francisco 2.0 32290]

 

 

 

 

[Sawbonz 27375]

10 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

You need to stop thinking

Pretty sure he did that a while back. That’s the problem 

[HenryJames 65868]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/

[atomheartbevo 89362]

5 hours ago, Captainant said:

Russia is already never coming to the table as long as putin is breathing. You are repeating putin and tucker carlson's useful lie that they would negotiate a peace. You should open a fucking history book to the mid to late 1930s and read up on how appeasing these sorts of figures tends to go. 

Russia will come to the table if they get to keep Crimea and everything else they’ve taken. 

[Sawbonz 27375]

3 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Russia will come to the table if they get to keep Crimea and everything else they’ve taken. 

Until next time

[956 Worldwide 34314]

4 hours ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

We're not giving money and resources away,  we are investing it.  We're investing in a country being a wall to protecting the rest of Europe.  Investing in our own industry by showing off to the world how effective our old and new military equipment is. Investing in our own soldiers by limiting possible NATO war and face to face conflict.  Investing in a future partner and NATO ally with a very capable society.  The ROI on this stands to be massive considering the circumstances forced onto the world by Putin and his alliances.

Based on what DJT said, this is probably going to be reframed as a loan, which everyone understands will never be repaid because you don’t give back a Bradley or a Patriot interceptor. It simply has to be framed that way as a sop to the grotesque ego of a man who needs to show he makes “good deals” and to satisfy—not LOW information voters— rather WRONG information voters. Just doing the thing that needs to be done by creating a Rube Goldberg machine for simpletons and half-wits to gawk at. 
 

This especially uninspired bit of high school drama would be understandable as politics if the end result wasn’t killing lots of brave people who want to like us. It’s astounding how eager the GOP IS celebrate their own stupid harmfulness. 

[atomheartbevo 89362]

4 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

The US hasn't given $80 bn to Ukraine. It has given most of it to itself. And not only are we getting new equipment that we wanted anyway, we're also seriously degrading the capabilities of a longtime foe. 

It’s not just that, it’s also that newer American stuff is being proven to work (HIMARS etc.) and as a result, American defense companies are hiring more workers and ramping up the number of shifts because quite a few countries are all of the sudden buying our proven hardware. That boosts our economy quite a bit. The HIMARS production line alone has nearly tripled yearly output, and has a massive backlog thanks to the war. 
 

4 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We have the equipment and DIB to give stuff.  The others don’t. It sucks but it’s what it is.

Yep, no other country had almost a thousand F-16s sitting in long-term storage waiting to be sold or given to allies, used for parts, or eventually scrapped. That’s just one example, and it is the way it is because we chose to have a big fucking military because it’s in our economic interest.

[Captainant 27311]

7 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Russia will come to the table if they get to keep Crimea and everything else they’ve taken. 

Historically speaking, I wouldn't count on that as a long-term fix. 

[atomheartbevo 89362]

6 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Until next time

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

Historically speaking, I wouldn't count on that as a long-term fix. 

Yep, just until they can fully equip and properly train up a few hundred thousand new troops.

I will be shocked if Belarus isn’t Anschlussed this year (I know it’s not a real word, don’t care).

 

[Gil Bang 25865]

6 hours ago, BeardIP said:

With the caveat of a promise that this is the last, best and final aid package to Ukraine, I think this would be a deal.

how about you go fuck right off back to Moscow, you fucking scumbag and/or aggie

[Gil Bang 25865]

5 hours ago, BeardIP said:

Hey, you know what? You have yourself a great weekend, sir. Tell your dad you love him. 

Pax and Agape to you all-- the beach is calling my name.

The only thing agape around here is your asshole

[atomheartbevo 89362]

What people like Beard don’t seem to get is that Putin is publicly telling us who he is and what he believes, and that he’s not going to stop with Ukraine. In his mind, Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, the Baltics, part of Poland, etc. all belong to him and Mother Russia.  Georgia and Transnistria, and Ukraine in 2014 were the first steps into making that a reality once again.

[Chewbacca 7727]

You need to stop thinking in terms of dollars. We aren’t sending them cash or wiring them dollars.  
 
we are giving them older, useful stuff to fight with.  Things that we want to replace or have replaced and are spending money to securely store. 
 
then we are spending our money to replace that stuff with the stuff we want.  Which puts money into our economy, secures jobs, fattens the MIC which is always hungry, and updates our military inventory. 
 
yeah, there could be some money spent on excess dumb shells manufactured specifically to give to Ukraine but that’s a small portion of an overall aid package. 
 
and maybe there’s humanitarian aid in included and some of the same benefits occur outside the defense contractor ecosystem. 

He's not interested in actual dialog.

[Chewbacca 7727]

What people like Beard don’t seem to get is that Putin is publicly telling us who he is and what he believes, and that he’s not going to stop with Ukraine. In his mind, Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, the Baltics, part of Poland, etc. all belong to him and Mother Russia.  Georgia and Transnistria, and Ukraine in 2014 were the first steps into making that a reality once again.

He gets it, he just doesn't care.

[Biff Tannen 45477]

6 hours ago, BeardIP said:

Hey, you know what? You have yourself a great weekend, sir. Tell your dad you love him. 

Pax and Agape to you all-- the beach is calling my name.

[Dnaguy 11740]

6 hours ago, Smax said:

Why haven't "we" tapped into the $300 billion frozen Russian asset yet? I assume because its unprecedented but given what's at stake and the maga morons strangle on congress, isn't it time?

The west should tell Russia, this is where we are at, cease all hostilities and retreat or we are going to start liquidating Russian assets to pay for the war and in all honesty we should do it anyways and put some of it aside to pay for rebuilding.

Give Ukraine more offensive weapons and take the restraint off, let Ukraine send missiles and drones into Moscow on the reg and see how they like it

An argument against liquidating Russian holdings in the west is that it takes away a chip if / when Putin dies.

The Russian economy will be in shambles.

theyll need that $.

The west can use it to ensure a sympathetic leader is installed to get the $ spigot going.

Without that leverage who know what crazy is ‘elected’ or installed.

Im not 100% convinced of this argument but I can see its merits and it is at least a strategy, I guess.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33825]

lol

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89362]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/15/politics/house-republicans-israel-ukraine-iran/index.html
 

Quote

Speaker Mike Johnson announced Monday evening the House will take up separate bills this week to provide aid for Israel and Ukraine, heeding demands from the far right to keep the issues separate as the threat of a vote to oust him from the speakership looms.

The long-awaited decision by Johnson marks a pivotal moment for the Louisiana Republican as he has faced intense pressure from his conference over how he would handle foreign aid to the key US allies. Johnson predicted the House will vote Friday evening on the separate bills.

Quote

“There are precipitating events around the globe that we’re all watching very carefully,” Johnson told reporters after a GOP conference meeting Monday evening. “And we know that the world is watching us to see how we react.”

Quote

Despite the speaker’s attempt to thread the needle, however, GOP Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, who continues to dangle the threat of a vote on Johnson’s ouster, was quick to criticize the foreign aid plan. “I am firmly against the plan as it stands right now,” Greene told reporters, though when asked whether she would force a vote on the motion to vacate as a result, she said, “I haven’t decided on that yet.”

Johnson dismissed concerns over a vote to oust him by his conservative flank if he moves on aid to Ukraine, telling CNN, “I don’t spend my time worrying about motions to vacate. We’re having to govern here and we’re going to do our job.”

Johnson feeling a lot of heat from the Republicans who aren’t on the Russian payroll.  There’s talk that one or more Republicans are about to bail as well.

MTG going to try and do a motion to vacate this week, I’m guessing.  She’s been so adamant against any Ukraine aid, no way she doesn’t try and gum up the works.

[MrBig 5279]

I read that some Dem Reps like Joaquin Castro and others are willing to back Johnson to remain speaker for the sake of trying to get things done. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19118]

4 hours ago, MrBig said:

I read that some Dem Reps like Joaquin Castro and others are willing to back Johnson to remain speaker for the sake of trying to get things done. 

Wouldn’t doubt it. Castro is a gutless pussy. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

36 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Wouldn’t doubt it. Castro is a gutless pussy. 

Shut your mouth! Castro is the future and always will be!

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

Ukraine aid needs to get done ASAP. I’m not holding my breath and I’ve got a pretty cynical view of Johnson’s determination to get it done. But if it doesn’t get done then that will be a further indictment of the pro-Putin sympathies in the GOP. 

[Js1 85056]

5 hours ago, MrBig said:

I read that some Dem Reps like Joaquin Castro and others are willing to back Johnson to remain speaker for the sake of trying to get things done. 

I mean, there’s not much left to do this year, legislatively. It’s already April, they only have about 12 work weeks left where both chambers are in session.  Basically off all of August and October

Just get the important shit done, let Marge have her tantrum and further embarrass the GOP right before election season and campaign on restoring functionality and normalcy back to the House

God forbid the Dems let someone like Gym get the gavel in May and he immediately goes hog wild with fake Benghazi stuff to try to influence the election 

[Bullneck 18976]

On 4/12/2024 at 5:44 PM, Sawbonz said:

 

[956 Worldwide 34314]

I am counting on there being some bullshit that sinks the Ukraine bill, Johnson will say he tried, and we will just give up. Lots of people looking for reasons to throw them overboard. 

[atomheartbevo 89362]

7 hours ago, MrBig said:

I read that some Dem Reps like Joaquin Castro and others are willing to back Johnson to remain speaker for the sake of trying to get things done. 

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I am counting on there being some bullshit that sinks the Ukraine bill, Johnson will say he tried, and we will just give up. Lots of people looking for reasons to throw them overboard. 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/16/politics/mike-johnson-foreign-aid-plan-republican-reaction/index.html
 

Quote

Republican hardliners are growing angry at House Speaker Mike Johnson’s complex plan to advance billions in foreign aid to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan, the latest indication that Democratic support will be needed to save it.

But the text of the plan has not been released, so House Democrats are still weighing whether to bail out Johnson – or stand up against it and pressure Republicans to instead take up the $95 billion Senate package that Johnson has sidelined for two months. House Democrats meet Tuesday morning.

Quote

The first problem for Johnson: Approving the rule that governs floor debate, a procedural step that allows legislation to be passed by a majority vote. For decades, these rules have been approved along straight-party lines, but GOP divisions have derailed rules seven times this Congress and stymied its agenda.

At least one Republican – Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia – said she will vote against the rule. Several others told CNN they are still considering how they’d vote. And members including Republican Rep. Thomas Massie of Kentucky are railing against the plan Tuesday morning. It’s the latest sign that Democrats will be needed to save the rule, a prospect that would open up Johnson to backlash from an already angry right wing.

I think there’s more than enough Republican votes in support of Ukraine to get it across the finishing line, but there’s also enough pro-Russia Republicans to stymy the floor debate.

[Captainant 27311]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I think there’s more than enough Republican votes in support of Ukraine to get it across the finishing line, but there’s also enough pro-Russia Republicans to stymy the floor debate.

And the fact of the matter is, Johnson has straight up been refusing to bring those bills to the floor. The GOP doesn't want to govern. They want to rule. 

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

And the fact of the matter is, Johnson has straight up been refusing to bring those bills to the floor. The GOP doesn't want to govern. They want to rule. 

They’re for sale and Russia is buying.

[Captainant 27311]

3 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

They’re for sale and Russia is buying.

Heaven forbid we actually fucking prosecute anyone trading favors for rubles, though. Just think if they were investigating YOU for taking illegal campaign contributions from the russians!

[The Dog 43771]

here we go again:

 

[Js1 85056]

[Pancho 44358]

 

 

 

[956 Worldwide 34314]

23 minutes ago, Js1 said:

The Moscow caucus is riding to the rescue. Just so we’re clear, this political fun is going to lead directly to dead Ukrainians. 

[Post Oak 20182]

When you get a chance to DC draino to sign off on legislation. You've just gotta do it

 

[956 Worldwide 34314]

He didn’t say which side of the war he’s on. 

[Ghost of LL 15348]

45 minutes ago, The Dog said:

here we go again:

 

So do you have to hold a vote on the MTV first?  Because right now, Johnson doesn't have enough votes to remain speaker without Democratic support.

[956 Worldwide 34314]

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

So do you have to hold a vote on the MTV first?  Because right now, Johnson doesn't have enough votes to remain speaker without Democratic support.

I’ve read that first would be a motion to table, and the Dems could vote to table and that would be it. I think @Js1 knows the inside baseball better. I know MJ would prefer not to have to put his speakership into the hands of the Ds and of course the rightful temptation for them would be to let the GOP eat itself again. 
 

But again— how are they feeling about dead Ukrainians because that’s what they chose? It sucks to have to choose principle over political wins but at some point isn’t that what the Ds say they stand for? This isn’t a missed paycheck for feds. It’s Russian missiles crashing into Ukrainian cities. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2785]

4 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Wouldn’t doubt it. Castro is a gutless pussy. 

We're talking about Joaquin.  Not that POS Julian. 

[The Dog 43771]

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

2 hours ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

We're talking about Joaquin.  Not that POS Julian. 

We’re not talking about Miracle Whip, we’re talking about mayonnaise.

[YGIFS 19449]

I read that in Louis Gossett, Jr.'s voice.  RIP

[atomheartbevo 89362]

Collection of Massie’s whining today

Speaker Johnson has led the GOP to pass: 1) an omnibus that spends more than Pelosi’s highest year 2) an expansion of the domestic warrantless surveillance program and this week he’s pushing 3) Schumer’s dream bill which contains $100 billion of foreign aid, mostly for war.

Friday, we have one less Republican in the majority as Rep Gallagher leaves instead of finishing his term. As a going away gift, Speaker Johnson plans to force the senate to take up Gallagher’s bill to ban tiktok and give Presidential power to ban websites. But still no border.

I just told Mike Johnson in conference that I’m cosponsoring the Motion to Vacate that was introduced by @RepMTG. He should pre-announce his resignation (as Boehner did), so we can pick a new Speaker without ever being without a GOP Speaker.

[atomheartbevo 89362]

Emmer smells blood and is circling around,

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/16/politics/mike-johnson-revolt-house-gop-leadership/index.html

And it’s telling that Emmer and others are making sure that they have Trump’s blessing.

[horn4life 3753]

What's pathetic to me. And what shows what crazy fucking loon bags the GOP is filled with, is that there now is an easily identifiable "Russian Comrade" wing of the Republican Party in the House of Representatives.  They repeat nearly verbatim Russian propaganda, while at the same time pretending to wrap themselves in the flag on social media.

The only certainly in my mind regarding the house of Representatives elected by Republicans the past 10 years is this.  There has been a consistent and prolonged elevation of stupidity from top to bottom of the GOP in each election.  

Now the Dems have their dimmer bulbs to be certain.  But the difference is the dim bulbs on the Dem side do not control and prevent any and all bi-partisan legislation.  We no hwave a house controlled by the dumb, and led the cowardly.  What Johnson should do for the sake of the country is simply reach across the aisle and make a deal to support his speakership by bringing Senate legislation to the floor of the House.

I know my Republican friend will yelp that... "Well the house passed a lot of bills the Senate should vote on!"  Which of course is a red herring.  Because there are completely different types of bills being blocked in each house.  In the Senate bills are blocked because they cannot garner the 60 votes (that's 60% for the math challenged) necessary to receive a vote.  The bills are simply propaganda tools coming from the house, with no chance at all of ultimate passage.   In contrast the bills being blocked in the House from a vote are... hold your breath here... Because they WILL PASS!

But don't let factual information get in your way. Fox news spent a whole sunday railing against Senate votes against seemingly decent amendments to the bill that kept the government going after months of the House being unable to do their job.  Not once during the Fox News coverage was it ever mentioned that to vote affirmatively on ANY of the last second GOP amendments, would have caused the government to shut down for at least a week!  Because the lazy ass House had already gone home.  But when you elevate stupidity, you can get the stupid to listen to the stupid and believe almost anything.  And that is why the GOP has become so very, very dangerous to American Democracy.  Because they don't believe in allowing votes on bills that can pass in the House, and only pass bills in the house that cannot pass in the Senate.