the 2023 speaker of the house voting thread of implosion

[The Dog 44051]

28 minutes ago, Js1 said:

The Problem Solvers caucus won’t do shit. 

agreed - I think the most likely outcome at this point is a "placeholder" type until they can figure this out. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

54 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Right.  And that is not a "political party" as that term has ever been understood in political science.

I don't really know what it is, beyond a complete and total clusterfuck.

I would describe it as a fascist movement which I loosely define as a violent anti-democratic destructive force built on lies, hate, and the absence of any core beliefs except the lust for power and domination.  

I know not all Republicans consider themselves part of this but that’s where their party has been headed, more so since January 6th, 2021.  I mean, they are about to nominate Donald Trump for a THIRD straight time and all the Chris Christies, Mike Pences, and Chris Sununus of the party will fall right in line, again.

It’s a fascist movement/political party. 

[The Dog 44051]

 

[Lurch 5930]

I'm pretty sure the problem is that someone has to jump on the continuing resolution hand grenade.  It's a thankless task and whoever is in charge Nov 15 will be vilified on Fox and their families will be threatened by MAGA*.

 

*but not single issue Abortion voters, if I'm doing that right

[Ghost of LL 15531]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I would describe it as a fascist movement which I loosely define as a violent anti-democratic destructive force built on lies, hate, and the absence of any core beliefs except the lust for power and domination.  

I know not all Republicans consider themselves part of this but that’s where their party has been headed, more so since January 6th, 2021.  I mean, they are about to nominate Donald Trump for a THIRD straight time and all the Chris Christies, Mike Pences, and Chris Sununus of the party will fall right in line, again.

It’s a fascist movement/political party. 

No--fascists are typically pretty efficient at governing.

I mean, tyrannical and murderous.  But efficient.

[horn4life 3760]

What you need to understand that this is now the GOP model to run the country.  A model where the minority can rule the majority.  The GOP hasn't won the popular vote for a first time President since George Herbert Walker Bush, and they don't honestly think they can win the popular vote anymore nationally.  So the only route to power is the ability to say NO to everything.  This is how they have screwed up both the House and the Senate.  The Dems are not much better, but I for example don't think the Dems would have blocked a Supreme Court Nominee for a year.  Dems still put the country first, when push comes to shove.

The GOP?  Look at who the fuck they have elected?  The dumb fucks can't even choose a leader, instead it's just say NO!  Like little fucking children, refusing to eat vegetables and holding their breath turning red in anger.  But the solution for the GOP is the same for the vegetable refusing child, force them to eat their vegetables.  It would be easy honestly, just pick a trustworthy moderate Republican and get the support of the Dems in the name of the country.  But... better to burn down the house than eat vegetables is their childish logic.

There is a reason the GOP does nothing but create massive deficits at the federal level, they are a party of petty and very small ideas.  Better to scream, yell, stomp our feet and hold your breath!  What a bunch childish of assholes!

[wildcat09 29354]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

If I’m Jeffries or his surrogate, here is the deal I’m offering- we will deliver whatever combination of present and aye votes it takes to elect a speaker, and for the optics also promise to include enough Nay votes to ensure that more Republicans vote for the speaker than Democrats. In return we get:

1) power sharing that includes equal numbers on judiciary, ag and oversight, and chairs of 1/3 of key committees, including W&M

2) elimination of the Hastert rule

3) higher threshold for MTV

4) Michael McCaul or Tom Emmer is the speaker

If these are not acceptable we put Henry Cuellar forward in nomination. 

Generally agree with this (especially eliminating the Hastert rule), but Cuellar wouldn't be my alternative. Isn't he still under FBI investigation? 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

No--fascists are typically pretty efficient at governing.

The fatal flaw of the fascist is they are ultimately self destructive. However the timeline and body counts may vary. 

[LCHorn 2620]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

4) Michael McCaul or Tom Emmer is the speaker

Funny, I just had lunch with one of the Crime Commission folks that overlap with Lobo's circle and who is a mentor of sorts to McCaul and was told he doesn't want it. 

This was, of course, before the present chaos.  Maybe he can be drafted but I'm told he just wants to be left alone to run Foreign Affairs. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Generally agree with this (especially eliminating the Hastert rule), but Cuellar wouldn't be my alternative. Isn't he still under FBI investigation? 

if so, seems like a great compromise candidate. I'm not sure you can effectively lead a group of criminals if you aren't one yourself.

[GopherRock 1765]

1 hour ago, dieucla98 said:

I'm all for this. However, what's to stop them from going back on their word once they get their speaker and playing the he said she said game? 

I don't trust them more than I do a 3 month old lab and their backers aren't going to believe what Dems claim the deal was anyways. They garner more support arguing with Dems than they do making deals with them - what's their incentive to keep their word?

Dumb question potentially - are there safeguards in place to ensure they hold true to their word?

Any deal involving the House Democrats must have everything written down in the rules package, and voted upon prior to election of the Speaker. 

Trust but verify.

[wildcat09 29354]

20 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

No--fascists are typically pretty efficient at governing.

I mean, tyrannical and murderous.  But efficient.

No, they're really not. They're always a disastrous clownshow.  They tend to be able to pull of a pretense otherwise because the circumstances that permit fascists to come to power generally require shit to have gotten really bad, and usually by the time they take power things have already started improving and they just ride the wave and take credit for awhile.

[Captainant 27667]

24 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

No--fascists are typically pretty efficient at governing.

I mean, tyrannical and murderous.  But efficient.

Fascists don't govern. They rule over their human capital

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

Maybe if he bangs the gavel real hard they will show up.

[Guest]

Oh shit, Ted Cruz just dropped that he is supporting Jim Jordan for speaker. 

[The Dog 44051]

This is Trumpism - endless self-promotion for personal gain.

There is no "team" - just individuals competing with each other for attention and then profiting off of that attention. 

[Macanudo 12978]

If Jordan were to get it (and I don't think he will), does he have to give up his chairmanship?

[Da Fino 2783]

17 hours ago, softlynow said:

Every time a thread gets bogged down like this I am reminded of a real gem of a thread in which bodybuilders argue about the number of days in a week.

The link (bodybuilding.com)

SIAP

 

 

[The Dog 44051]

4 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Oh shit, Ted Cruz just dropped that he is supporting Jim Jordan for speaker. 

two guys who wouldn't hesitate to stab each other in the back on a moment's notice.

[Js1 85336]

Just now, Macanudo said:

If Jordan were to get it (and I don't think he will), does he have to give up his chairmanship?

Yes

[Biff Tannen 45685]

5 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Oh shit, Ted Cruz just dropped that he is supporting Jim Jordan for speaker. 

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

[The Dog 44051]

good grief:

Chip Roy has his, which has been modified.

Timmons has a similar one

Huizenga has one that strips committee assignments of those who won’t back nominee.

Cammack wants to change threshold to 80%

[yoladu 4094]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

If I’m Jeffries or his surrogate, here is the deal I’m offering- we will deliver whatever combination of present and aye votes it takes to elect a speaker, and for the optics also promise to include enough Nay votes to ensure that more Republicans vote for the speaker than Democrats. In return we get:

1) power sharing that includes equal numbers on judiciary, ag and oversight, and chairs of 1/3 of key committees, including W&M

2) elimination of the Hastert rule

3) higher threshold for MTV

4) Michael McCaul or Tom Emmer is the speaker

If these are not acceptable we put Henry Cuellar forward in nomination. 

i used to bitch and moan about McCaul as he was once my Rep in my very gerrymandered US District in Austin, but at this point i would consider myself lucky to have him and not the many of alternatives the GOP has to offer.

i may disagree with 95% of his positions, but at least he is a reasoned mature adult.

 

Man, a lot has changed in the GOP in the last 15 to 20 years.

Edited October 13, 2023 by yoladu

[kevwun 15788]

He will take care of Ukraine at least.

[The Dog 44051]

 

[Biff Tannen 45685]

3 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

Wait, he's saying it was Biden and the Dems that wanted to remove McCarthy?  So Gaetz, MTG, et al are Dem operatives?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

18 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

If Jordan were to get it (and I don't think he will), does he have to give up his chairmanship?

Jordan as speaker would basically become the Executive Producer for Fox News.  He would put as many democrats on public trial as possible.  Biden impeachment proceedings would be cranked up to eleven and he’d probably put the FBI on trial again.  

He’d be a complete disaster legislatively but so would anyone else. 

[Js1 85336]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Wait, he's saying it was Biden and the Dems that wanted to remove McCarthy?  So Gaetz, MTG, et al are Dem operatives?

They. Will. Not. Take. Accountability.  They are gaslighting us into believing the Dems caused this. 

8 GOP members launched McCarthy's speakership in the sun.  Dems just went along with it because they fucking hate that two-faced, backstabbing piece of shit.  the Dems alone could not kill McCarthy - IT WAS 8 FUCKING REPUBLICANS LED BY MATT GAETZ, WHO BROUGHT UP THE MOTION AND VOTED TO THROW THE HOUSE INTO CHAOS.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

No--fascists are typically pretty efficient at governing.

I mean, tyrannical and murderous.  But efficient.

I think MAGA is much closer to the Italian version than the German one.

[Sbbruin 21853]

If the US is going to do anything to stem the rapid decline it's going to require some pretty major changes at the constitutional level. The two party system just can't work anymore in this environment so there would have to be a shift to a hybrid system that marginalizes the extremes in society. 

Problem is too many people are currently housed at the extremes.

[The Dog 44051]

round and round we go:

 

[Bullneck 19090]

2 hours ago, dieucla98 said:

I'm all for this. However, what's to stop them from going back on their word once they get their speaker and playing the he said she said game? 

I don't trust them more than I do a 3 month old lab and their backers aren't going to believe what Dems claim the deal was anyways. They garner more support arguing with Dems than they do making deals with them - what's their incentive to keep their word?

Dumb question potentially - are there safeguards in place to ensure they hold true to their word?

"You can trust me.  I'm a good boy."

[Upgrayedd 5812]

41 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Wait, he's saying it was Biden and the Dems that wanted to remove McCarthy?  So Gaetz, MTG, et al are Dem operatives?

They are under deep cover.  I’m sure that as we speak, some nut job is trying to assemble birth dates, middle names, spousal information, and astrological signs to create a code that spells it all out.

Do your research.

[South Austin 52500]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

No--fascists are typically pretty efficient at governing.

Not that I condone fascism, or any ism for that matter. Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people.

[Francisco 2.0 32392]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

8 GOP members launched McCarthy's speakership in the sun.  Dems just went along with it because they fucking hate that two-faced, backstabbing piece of shit.  the Dems alone could not kill McCarthy - IT WAS 8 FUCKING REPUBLICANS LED BY MATT GAETZ, WHO BROUGHT UP THE MOTION AND VOTED TO THROW THE HOUSE INTO CHAOS.

 

Yeah, most, if not all of us in this charming little corner of the Internet know and understand this, but the fine folk of Georgia that are the constituents of Rep. Austin Scott don't give a shit what we think.  Whatever Congressman Scott (and Fox, Newsmax, MTG, etc) says matters, and that's that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Francisco 2.0

[BearSchlong 8093]

Any deal involving the House Democrats must have everything written down in the rules package, and voted upon prior to election of the Speaker. 
Trust but verify.

My sibling scrubber her CV of anything remotely associated with her work at the Clinton WH and Dennis Hastert hired her as associate parliamentarian, where she served for 9 years.

This morning I asked her who would be the ultimate arbiter if the Rs attempted to renege on a rules agreement. The Supreme Court?

“Fuck if I know. We are in completely unprecedented insanity. Probably?”

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The Jeffries idea is so incredibly far fetched.  It reminds of the delusions from 2017 to attempt to get a few GOP senators to caucus with the Democrats. 

The democrats are correctly going to continue to push for this idea but it’s all just a backhanded way to highlight the GOP’s incompetence.  

To put it another way, the Republicans would first try to secede from the Union before elevating a Democrat to Speaker of the House.  

The only method to get Jeffries as speaker is if 5 republicans decided to switch parties. This could only happen if 5 centrists (do any exist?) were planning to retire and Jeffries promised them some legislation that they wanted.

Honesty the GOP has the majority so they should expect to have the speaker. 

[The Dog 44051]

sounds like a lot of reps on both sides went home today so this isn't going to get resolved until next week at the earliest.

[Satchel 6938]

2 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Oh shit, Ted Cruz just dropped that he is supporting Jim Jordan for speaker. 

Ted knows that Hakeem Jeffries is working hard behind the scene to form a bipartisan coalition to elect a Speaker. He doesn’t want there to be a chance for government to work.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Rep. Austin Scott

 

“For you who are about to die, I salute you.”  
 

[The Dog 44051]

 

[Dnaguy 11964]

9 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

“For you who are about to die, I salute you.”  
 

[Red Five 40858]

7 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

So, "never Trumpers" are RINOs? Trump himself is literally a republican in name only. He ran as one because he could win as one. But if you don't support him you're not a real republican? This shit is confusing. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

Austin Scott is a good fall guy.  Loves him some defense spending, not too Trumpy, and not too obnoxious.  Falling on the sword like a good soldier from a safe district.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

RIP Austin Scott

Jordan is likely DOA on Congress floor

[kevwun 15788]

Yeah, he's never getting to 217.

[Satchel 6938]

Gym Jordan as Speaker. The election of Trump broke the world.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[Radical Larry 28615]

I hope there was a good laugh from folks on the floor when Jordan was announced as the nominee.

[LCHorn 2620]

The repeated updates of this clown show is a very welcome respite from the Israel thread.