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2023 Poker in the Rear

Lurch

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Hugh G. Rection

Hugh G. Rection 156

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Posted
3 hours ago, CBT said:

Shit, isn't a pot bet like $300 at that point? Does UTG cover you? Is he an OMC?  I'm probably just ripping it in, yea. That kind of raise reeks of 99-QQ. I'm good with flipping with the dead money in the middle. 

Pot bet was $200 (7 @ $31).  The only caller was a younger asian guy but he was MP with lots of people to act behind.  Seems impossible to believe that he called but I guess top pair was enough for him.

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Hugh G. Rection

Hugh G. Rection 156

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27 minutes ago, Lurch said:

I don’t mind either play preflop. Don’t think bluff jamming flop from early position was EV+ though. Too likely some of the 7 opponents had SPR spots where they’d call even if you showed them AA (which a flop jam screams here)

Pretty much a rule to never bluff when 4-way+

I absolutely agree, but I felt stuck at this point.  I tried to convince myself I had fold equity although the initial caller had 3:1 odds and anyone after that was even better.  I was hoping the absolute value of the money may convince people to fold.  What would you do, check/fold if you don't improve?  I'm sure that's the EV+ play.  Maybe I like the rush more than the money lol.

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TXSooner518

TXSooner518 2438

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Posted
44 minutes ago, Lurch said:

I don’t mind either play preflop. Don’t think bluff jamming flop from early position was EV+ though. Too likely some of the 7 opponents had SPR spots where they’d call even if you showed them AA (which a flop jam screams here)

Pretty much a rule to never bluff when 4-way+

At some point, can't fold tho, we have $500 back and there is over $2000 in the pot. Dunno if there was a diamond or not on flop (75% chance based on post ha).  If we are never going to fold no matter what, I'd rather jam and get folds from hands like 66 or QT or whatever rather than let them realize their non-zero equity. Agree, it's a terrible spot either way at this point. Just the cost of doing business in an incredible game where 7 people are willing to get 100 bigs in pre with money still behind. 

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TXSooner518

TXSooner518 2438

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Hugh G. Rection said:

Pot bet was $200 (7 @ $31).  The only caller was a younger asian guy but he was MP with lots of people to act behind.  Seems impossible to believe that he called but I guess top pair was enough for him.

You said 7 people called the $31, so that should be 8x31 is $248 ignoring blinds. For you to pot would be $310 (to calculate pot you put in the call, then raise the amount of the pot). If there were only 6 callers (so the $31 raiser and six more so 7 people), pot raise is $279. No one is calling $200 pre with JTo to fold top pair lol. 

20 minutes ago, Hugh G. Rection said:

I absolutely agree, but I felt stuck at this point.  I tried to convince myself I had fold equity although the initial caller had 3:1 odds and anyone after that was even better.  I was hoping the absolute value of the money may convince people to fold.  What would you do, check/fold if you don't improve?  I'm sure that's the EV+ play.  Maybe I like the rush more than the money lol.

If the raise was $200 called 6 ways, it's closer, but check-folding equity away is brutal in a massive massive pot. You had almost 30% equity against JT, assuming one diamond was on the flop. 

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Lurch

Lurch 5922

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14 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

At some point, can't fold tho, we have $500 back and there is over $2000 in the pot. Dunno if there was a diamond or not on flop (75% chance based on post ha).  If we are never going to fold no matter what, I'd rather jam and get folds from hands like 66 or QT or whatever rather than let them realize their non-zero equity. Agree, it's a terrible spot either way at this point. Just the cost of doing business in an incredible game where 7 people are willing to get 100 bigs in pre with money still behind. 

My assumption is that a fold would be quite likely at this point.  Especially if we saw a lot of action past our check.  If there's a bet and then a raise/jam, for example, I doubt our odds are frequently favorable (would depend on stack sizes, of course) to make a call

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Hugh G. Rection

Hugh G. Rection 156

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Posted
3 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

At some point, can't fold tho, we have $500 back and there is over $2000 in the pot. Dunno if there was a diamond or not on flop (75% chance based on post ha).  If we are never going to fold no matter what, I'd rather jam and get folds from hands like 66 or QT or whatever rather than let them realize their non-zero equity. Agree, it's a terrible spot either way at this point. Just the cost of doing business in an incredible game where 7 people are willing to get 100 bigs in pre with money still behind. 

That was my thinking at the time.  Had to bluff.  No, no diamond on the flop so I didn't improve in any way.

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Hugh G. Rection

Hugh G. Rection 156

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Posted
3 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

You said 7 people called the $31, so that should be 8x31 is $248 ignoring blinds. For you to pot would be $310 (to calculate pot you put in the call, then raise the amount of the pot). If there were only 6 callers (so the $31 raiser and six more so 7 people), pot raise is $279. No one is calling $200 pre with JTo to fold top pair lol. 

If the raise was $200 called 6 ways, it's closer, but check-folding equity away is brutal in a massive massive pot. You had almost 30% equity against JT, assuming one diamond was on the flop. 

Yeah, my raise was $200 even, I used "pot" in the writing as shorthand.  Sorry for the confusion.  

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TXSooner518

TXSooner518 2438

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8 minutes ago, Hugh G. Rection said:

Yeah, my raise was $200 even, I used "pot" in the writing as shorthand.  Sorry for the confusion.  

No worries, just matters when we are looking at the math. Definitely a different story going to a $1400 pot with $600 back than a $2100 pot with $500 back. Working against us is our pot odds are worse, so we need more equity when called. Working for us is that the bet is bigger, both in raw $ and compared to the pot, so we have more fold equity. I'd prob check here with the different pot size and given no diamonds. 

If your opp jammed and showed you JT, you would need to call $600 to win $2000 more so we need 6/26 or 23% equity. We have 23.3% vs his exact hand. So just slightly over break even on the $ going in on the flop, so don't feel too bad about it at all. 

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Hugh G. Rection

Hugh G. Rection 156

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Posted
9 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

No worries, just matters when we are looking at the math. Definitely a different story going to a $1400 pot with $600 back than a $2100 pot with $500 back. Working against us is our pot odds are worse, so we need more equity when called. Working for us is that the bet is bigger, both in raw $ and compared to the pot, so we have more fold equity. I'd prob check here with the different pot size and given no diamonds. 

If your opp jammed and showed you JT, you would need to call $600 to win $2000 more so we need 6/26 or 23% equity. We have 23.3% vs his exact hand. So just slightly over break even on the $ going in on the flop, so don't feel too bad about it at all. 

Thanks!  I appreciate you working through the math.  

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Zwylde

Zwylde 812

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Tried my hand at my first PLO tourney.  $180 - $5k guarantee at Champions in Houston.  A lot more fun than the typical NLH tournies which I expected. We hit 28 entries after late reg with a prize pool of over $10k after rebuys and add ons.  Made final table but out in 8th.  Brandon Cantu and some others from the Helmuth livestream came and entered after the livestream.  Cantu was the chip leader when I busted out.  Helmuth hung around and watched and acted like he was gonna late reg but never did.

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Lurch

Lurch 5922

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Still Wynn, Aria, Venetian with some liking Resort World, though I’ve not tried it.

Wynn is most comfortable/highest quality. Aria is most packed (can be to its detriment as fish aren’t as likely to wait for a seat). Venetian tends to have more availability.

MGMs room is dark and low stakes only. I’d avoid it unless others were out of reach.

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11756

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Posted (edited)

i had a nice 7 session win streak that got me back.

 

but yet again, ran into the AK vs whatever the fuck I have loss combo tonight. 

 

started with $200,  played a round no action, 195 behind I get dealt 99hd.  1 limper, i make it $15 from LP,   aggressive 21-22yo something makes it $65. which  screams, I dont want a flop.  I reshove- which is almost the total amount he has..... he says lets rock and its all low cards until the river K.  he flips over AK, so of course my 99 no good. 

rebuy for $200 more, get it up to $350 on the verge of breaking even, get dealt AKo UTG, and limp with the full intention of going after the 2-3 aggressive players in later positions. 

same kid who won against me with AK make it $15 from EP. LP makes it $50, folds to me, I am SB, and I shove.    kid snap calls, LP folds... and we run it out, no ace no king, nothing. 

he flips over 33.    are you kidding me? 

rebuy for another 200, play for a while, get it up to $300 again. and am the button with AKss.  UTG makes it $15, gets 2 callers, CO makes it $50.    I fucking shove, because duh. 

 

folds to the 2nd caller of the original 15, hes got $325 behind and calls and everyone else folds. 

flop is all red, Q J 8 - X X    he flips over 99..... and of course wins. 

I leave with my tail between my legs, down $700

all 3 major loses with AK or against AK, and I just cant fucking win with that fucking hand, nor can I fucking beat it. 

 

i get that they are all flips, but Its becoming beyond frustrating.  If I slow play AK, i lose, if i fast play, i lose, if I raise hard and actuallly hit WITH AK the moment I bet everyone folds, but if I miss entirely and Continue Bet, I lose. 

 

Its starting to become a fucking joke. 

 

 

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11756

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the next time this happens, I just need to leave.

played tonight, bought into the $1/2 game for $200 after 10 hands or so got myself up to 247. when this hand happens.

playing 7 handed.  2TA open bets for $25.   hes an OK player. probably not doing this with anything less than AK (and AK is a 35% chance).  i look down at 88. and figure the odds are right to try and set mine.

folds to the BB who is one of the tighest women players in the whole building who calls the $25. shes got roughly $150 behind. 

alarm bells have gone off in my head - shes never doing this with anything less than JJ......

 

flop is 2d 4h 8s.      and she bets out $50.  2TA insta shoves hes got over $300 

I snap call... and she snap calls.

Shes got KK, hes got JJ.  so this is looking very nice. 

except the turn card is a K.....   fuck... well at least I will win the ~$150 sidepot.  fuck.

The river is a fucking J.   No bs. set over set over set.

and yet again, for like the 10th time in a row when I have gotten it all in against 2 or more players where I have the massive lead, I cant beat the only fucker who has me covered.    

what I should have done at that moment was just say today was not my night and leave... but no I am dumb SOB who went on to lose another 400....

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Bookman

Bookman 4638

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Yeah, I've been known to get up and leave after a bad beat, especially in NLH. If my mind is not completely right, I just don't play anymore.


A couple weeks ago I was playing PLO ($1/$2). I flopped top set (the nuts), an open-ended straight draw to the nuts, and a backdoor flush draw with TTJQ on a T-9-2 rainbow board. I bet half pot, there is a call, and the next guy immediately pots it.


I didn’t know what to do. I decide to re-pot it to isolate him (probably a bad decision) and he shows 78JQ with two back door flush draws. That hand has 30% equity.
The turn was 8 of diamonds, giving him a diamond draw. Brick on the river and we chop.


If I had lost that hand I would have quit.

 

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Lurch

Lurch 5922

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Button straddle kills more action than it creates in my experience. Blinds are much more likely to fold when they have so many players left to act behind them.

At Bestbet it’s only allowed in time games ($5/10+). All others are UTG only.

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11756

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plus to be brutally honest, a button straddle already takes the best position and amplifies the advantage by several fold. 

The only advangtage the blinds get in a normal game is seeing most of the table action preflop before they get to act.  That mississippi bullshit takes that away and forces the blinds to act first. 

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Bookman

Bookman 4638

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On 10/10/2023 at 10:23 PM, AUS-97HORN said:

the next time this happens, I just need to leave.

Something interesting happened last night. I took a bad beat on a 3-way all-in in NLH, after the flop. I was 80% to scoop when the money went in. There was a ton of dead money in the pot too.

Three years ago that would have tilted me, but I wasn't phased at all--I mean not in the slightest. In fact, I was kind of happy for him, because I play with him often and he's a nice guy.

I noticed a while back that I wasn't really caring about winning or losing the pot, which has freed up my play quite a bit, but this was the first time I took a beat like that in a huge pot in NLH, and I simply didn't care.

I'm not quite sure what has changed, but I think it may be because I'm playing a lot of PLO, where the pots are bigger and the margins are so much thinner.

 

 

 

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11756

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yet again, got murdered tonight. 

buy in for $200 dont play a hand for 2 entire rotations with one exception where I made it $17 to go after 2 limpers, everyone folded. Then am MP with A9cc. 1 limper ahead. I  make it $5, 2 more calls until CO who makes it $15, button, SB, BB, & limper all call.  sigh OK, I call, so do the 2 behind. 

Flop is 9x 5c 2c it checks to me, and with 8 players, I want to see all the cards, so I shove $186. folds to the SB who tanks for 2 mins before finally calling. all else fold.  turn and river are JsTs.... i show and he flips over..... QcQs....   was not expecting that. -200.   

start with another $200, get it up to $375 after flopping a set vs 4 folks who all called my $20 pre flop bet, then called my $25 flop bet, but folded to my $90 turn bet. 

Get dealt AKhh Live $10 straddle to my right... so I make it $20. 2 callers - LP & original straddle

Flop is Ad Th Td.  FTA & I check and last to act bets out $25.  FTA calls, and I just dont think either has the T.  so I check raise to $60.  both eventually call. 

turn is Ks.  I bet out $60 again. Last to act hollywoods the shit out it... and eventually calls, FTA folds, so I am pretty fucking sure I am dead to an ace or king.  river is a blank. I check he bets out $60 again... and I just sigh fold... he shows AT.     

couple of hands later I hero call all in vs the most aggressive guy on the table on the turn with 55 on a 9-4-2-T board.  hes got KJ... K river. -400

addon again, get myself back up to $270 ish and again live $10 straddle to my right, I have AKss.. so this time I make it $27. folds to straddle, and he calls.

flop is Ad Ts 4s. he checks, I bet $55, he calls.

turn is Kd,   He checks and I take a while before settling on $90. he calls. 

river is Td... hes barely got me covered, and shoves, so I snap call.... and hes got  ATo..... 

thats twice tonight I got beat AK vs AT both times having Top 2.  and those were the only 2 times I got dealt AK in 3+ hours. I played for 3 hours watching everyone else play AK like its aces everytime and going 4 way all in with it against 3 pocket pairs, and just binking the A every fucking time. 

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blacklab

blacklab 11926

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Posted

damn. that's terrible.

I had a tournament a while back like that.

Playing big O, Flopped nut flush, nut low draw. Guy to my right goes all in with K high flush with JJ in his hand. Board pairs on turn, J on river, no low, bye bye half my stack.

Get moved to other table, have 234d56, flop 2x3d5x, get it all in, other guy has A2 of diamonds. Just have to avoid runner runner diamonds or running cards to give him a boat. Turn is 8d. On river any card other than a diamond I win the high, anything but a 4 or 6 I get the low. Only way to get scooped is the 6d. Boop, 6d.

Went from chip lead to out with two hands that were 99% favorites after the flop.

I took two weeks off from poker.

 

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11756

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also, I know I only post rough hands/ bad beats, but I also have made some stupid bluffs/ and calls in this downswing from hell.   So I am fully aware that I have made mistakes that cost me and are a big part of why I am not winning along with the classic run bad not helping.  

we dont get many kids in my neighborhood (last time I did Trick/Treat a total of 4 sets of kids came to the house over 3 hours), so I went ahead and played today. 

got sat at a new table, playing 5 handed, and it was honestly one of the eaisest small win tables Ive been on.  I would raise and get called by 1-2 guys, bet the flop and win 60% of the time, bet the turn and get a fold another 30%, and finally on the river I either had it, or made a prepared bluff and they would fold. 

Rolled my $200 up to $450 over the hour on the table, never having had to bet more than $40. eventually table fills up, play for another 1.5 hours without much movement, slowly chip down to $375ish.  Then this hand happens.

get dealt Ah7s in later middle position. Limp for $2, Button makes it $12, SB (aggressive better with $500 behind), BB (calling station about $400 behind)  call. its $10 more and I am last to act so I call. 

flop is 7h-3h-3c.  Checks to me, and I bet out $25, button folds, SB takes a bit and calls, so does the BB. 

turn is 4s. checks to me again, and I bet $50.

SB hems and haws, asks me how much I am behind,  eventually announced a raise to $125. BB folds, and now because of how aggressive this guy is I can eliminate any pairs here other than 44.  every other pocket pair I would lose to he would have raised pre from the SB.  Me having the Ah takes away most logical flush draws. 

So at this point, hes either got a 3, 56, or  air/flush draw. So I dont think going all in makes sense, I only get called by a 3 or 56.

And if he is on a flush draw, ive got one of his outs.  Plus, before he raised,  he seemed really aggitated that i wouldnt vocalize how much i had behind, I just raised my hands to show the roughly $300 at that point.

I dont waste much time to decide that his aggression tendency forces me to call the additional $75, if hes got a 3, I might be able to bluff on a heart river.

river is a 10s.   and he insta shoves.  hes got me covered, Ive got a bit over $200 behind.  and this puts me in the tank. 

 

Im trying to figure out what he could have that I beat.  In theory, that T should have been a blank barring him having ThXh. So I can beat a missed flush draw,  worse 7, random 4 maybe 45,46, plus pure air. 

I actually thought this out. if he doesnt have a 3 but had a T, would he really have shoved into me, the way I have played this hand, acting last to call the additional $10, plus the almost snap call I made on the turn, I have all the 3s, A3, 23,34, and any suited 3.   

So a naked T should not shove here. because he would have to be worried about me having a 3 or even 44/77.  I also didnt think a 3 would shove because he would to get everything he beats to fold,  with my hand being one of the very few that could pay him off. 

If hes put me on a 3, the straight would be the ONLY hand that can shove here for value.

I finally just decide that hes aggressive as fuck, and call. 

 

 

he announces, I am good, and mucks his hand, I dont show... and he pitches a fucking fit. 

demanding to see what I had... and Im like dude, I called you, you mucked, so I dont have to.  He questioned the dealer who agreed with me.... which set him on a level of tilt I havent seen in a while.  only played for 2 more hands, it was past 7:45 and I wanted to watch the Rangers in peace. 

in for $200, out for $855

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Lurch

Lurch 5922

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Tourney was 35ish players, 3 getting a ticket to main event and 4th getting $1100.

Down to final table of 9, I started as shortest stack with 22k at 500/1k/1k, but the disparity on the table wasn’t large. One guy had 100k but most of the table was in the 30-50k range so no worries.

At 7 handed and blinds of 1k/1.5k/1.5k I had worked my stack up to 50k when I get KQo in HJ. I open to 3500. Old man tourney reg on button makes a hesitant call, BB competes. 13k pot

A87 rainbow. BB checks and I cbet 5k. BTN again makes a hesitant call. BB folds. 23k pot

7. I check and BTN pretty quickly checks back.

A. I check and he snap throws three 5k chips for 15k bet into 23k pot. Why? What story is he telling? I actually laughed while thinking through this one and finding pretty much 0 non-bluffs he’d do this with.

I call and he slams down 66 angry that he got counterfeited

I pretty much coasted in from there

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Lurch

Lurch 5922

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Room is full of pros. My starting table has ONE reg, and he won yesterday’s 6-max. Going to be a slog

50k starting chips, 1 hour levels.

As we finish level 2, I have 76.2k, mostly from a flopped top two that I got 3 streets of value with

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Lurch

Lurch 5922

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200/400/400

Stacked a guy (Kelly Jo, the winner of yesterday’s 6-max) with my AJ vs his JT on J high board and stack up to 125k

Next hand I open UTG1 to 900 w Ad9d. Button makes it 3100 and I call.

Qd6d6h. I check and he makes it 1700. I decide to just call.

4d. Chk chk

Td. I make it 6k. He tanks and then bets out 20,200 leaving 25k behind. I know he’s boated up but can’t find the fold. Call to see QQ.

Still fine with 95k this early

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Lurch

Lurch 5922

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300/500/500

UTG opens 1200. I make it 4k on BTN w AQhh. He re pops it to 10200. I call. 21.7k pot

6h4c3d. He 12k I call. 45.7k pot

Jh. He checks, I go 20k. He brief tanks then jams 66k and I just barely have him covered.

I fold. 46k to win 178k.

49.7k stack. Damnit.

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Lurch

Lurch 5922

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HJ opens to 2700. I make it 10k from BTN w QQ. He calls 21.5k pot

K74 rainbow. Chk chk

A. Chk chk

3 river and he makes it 15k. I fold and he shows AK. We had both just chopped prior pot AK vs AK.

27.5k. Not great

[mention=241]Lurch[/mention] What tournament is this and who is Brad?

Sorry, discussed upthread. WPT Jax Main Event with Brad Owen
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