The Great American Home Recording Setup (oh, and Keyboards) Thread

[phdhorn 6224]

I'm starting this thread because: 1) I'm getting back after 25 years (an eternity in the recording world) to setting up my home studio; 2) there might be isolated souls out there who do this/appreciate it, etc.; and 3) All you homos [/lighten up, Francis) have posted guitar-centric stuff, which is great, don't get me wrong, I love it and even posted my own guitar pron, but there might even be 2 people in Austin who like/appreciate keyboard products/discussion.  Nah, probably not.  Anyway, this has been in the works, so on I go:

Brief Bio/etc. Background
TMI to go over, but I've been a musician for all of my life.  Yeah I taught history etc. at UT but I have 2 degrees which include music, and I was playing in bars when I was 14 (didn't say great, but just playing, besides, no one could find a good keyboardist then, so I got a lot of work).  I've got a degree in music composition (worthless?  Nah, just different), etc.  I'm by no means a recording "geek", in fact I traditionally hadn't much enjoyed the learning curve, and doing a lot of studio work around 1985 or so I learned that 1) recording is expensive, and 2) recording is expensive.  Plus, back then it took a lot time and effort to write out, tape, mix, blah blah blah.  I did enjoy hearing the ouputs, but man it was a beatdown.

Flash forward to oh, 5 years ago or so.  The technology has mushroomed, of course, and who knew that man, one schlep like me could in theory do SO much by his own lil' self that I was ripe to get back on the horse.  The only thing is that being a dad pretty much (for me at least) completely wiped out my ability to take time to enter even this less steep learning curve and get going.  I put it off and put it off and put it off.. years of buying this mag or looking at that article, etc.  I still wasn't too keen on "being a recording engineer", I think of myself first as a composer/writer, then a performer.  Even to this day I like recording -as long as I don't have to get too involved.  I'm just not that "Tweeky Geeky".

Nevertheless, with phd jr. running off to UT, the nest was finally empty enough this year that I could in my slow, plodding, careful, deliberate way begin to think about and amass a home studio.  I had the studio space (built a big room in my casa when we built the place in 1994, at least I was a visionary).   But man it was just tough, like trying to get on I-45 during rush with those old "entrance ramp" traffic lights... the speed (of the technology and apparent knowledge base) was daunting, but finally, finally I sort of got the impetus I needed to get going again.

Although lil' phd was gone from last August, it's taken awhile to get it going... lots of reading, deliberating, and just not having some shit interrupt me for 2 weeks and get me discouraged enough to say fuggthisshit, I can't work like this (which really was a reality for 20 years, until I kind of gave up).  But music has always been my first love, and so before I go out fueling up some spring wildflowers in my favorite cemetery of choice, I finally think this time the match struck - and lit.  So the next post will detail that process.

After I get through with that, I hope this thread turns into general recording (whether you do it or not) helps, comments, testimonies, questions, etc.  Plus, as I posted, while keyboard discussion isn't quite the hot topic that your axes and amps generate, I'm willing to talk - about technique, products, goods, bad, uglies (hey, I worked my avatar in!), etc.  Maybe it'll dry up in 3 days or maybe it'll keep going.  I do intend to keep poking in here as my recording work amps up.  Maybe even include a sample or two of what I'm doing (I'd love to see this from others here).  I already have 2-3 things in the can (uh, saved file, not shitcan... yet, anywy lol!).  So that's the deal.

The Great American Recording Assembly (in pictures!) coming up next!
Coming after this.  Buh-bye!

[jimmyjazz 46479]

Sounds like a good thread.  I should point out that several surlies have considerable studio experience as engineers and/or players, including (but not limited to) Paul Wesley, Swayze, tbone, and myself.  Personally, I'd like to learn a whole lot more about editing, specifically with Reaper (because that's what I use).  I can definitely assist with room acoustics, some gear (mostly microphones, preamps, and how to use them).  I know almost jack about keyboards but I am about to need help getting my aging but badass Yamaha into Reaper via MIDI.

[phdhorn 6224]

GARA (cont.) - The details:

The Golden Rule
First, I decided absolutely, positively at the outset of this I was going to abide by one overarching rule, period, end of story:  Although I very much appreciate great gear and all that, on my project, the entire challenge has been to spend as little as I can and get the most out of it!  I refer you back to "gear guy" in whatever sport, endeavor, etc. you remember.  There was always this guy who bought the most expensive, the best basketball shoes, the most awesome snowboard, etc.  But the guy was mediocre on this best day, shitty on most.  That gear didn't help him play better, it just made him look kind of silly.  And often, these "gear guys" go out and by the "Rolex of..." whatever, and then it goes to shit and they're left with this huge expense and stuff they can only hope to recoup 1/2 price on.  I've been there myself, even in music... having to sell of this "great" gear that I probably never really took full advantage of.  So if I can get from Step A to Step B using either/and: 1) What I already own; 2) what I can pick up used, etc.; 3) what I can get the cheapest (or most basic) version of, and 4) what I can possibly get for free (handouts always welcome!).  This has been my Quixotic quest.  If I ended up "underbuying" or wasting $$ because not buying at least a bit higher capacity thing I could have resulted in me losing money, then I'll be all the wiser  So far it seems to have been a good strategy.  And, frankly, it's part of the fun for me.  Makes it a fun challenge.

The Impetus
With that governing rule in mind, and its 4 corollaries, the project in earnest started about last November or so.  And on this one, I admit... I got really lucky.  My wife works at Apple (as some know).  Turns out that they were having an office upgrade, so they ended up giving away sparkling, refurb iMacs!  My wife took hers.  Then it turns out her boss didn't want hers, so my wife took that one.  Voilà!  Instant awesome computer!  I was going to use my fast Windows machine, but having a separate computer exclusively for my music?  Well that was like a wet dream.  No, actually it wasn't.  But it was still good.  So yeah, I got lucky from the outset.  But it was enough to finally push me over the "get off my ass" edge - and again - it was free (cf. Corollary # 4 above).  Here it is, complete with a version of StudioOne I've been working with.  Again, the "free" version:

1) iMac and StudioOne.  Running cost so far:  $0.

At this point, I've been using free Digital Recording Workstation (DAW) software, including: 1) GarageBand (and man has that app come a long way in 14 years.  I have been thoroughly impressed with what it does now, actually!);  2) PreSonus Studio One (pictured)... really a lot like GarageBand from my experience... I know it does a lot more, but again, that's for advanced geeks, which I am not yet.  Also, the free version prohibits you from exporting your file as an .mp3, which I kind of understand, but nowadays that seems kind of silly, as there are dozens of good online instant conversion sites, which I've used with no problems; I might buy the cheaper paid version once I get to a place where I need it, but for now I'm a simple man with simple expectations; 3) Pro Tools, haven't yet walked through that a lot, and 4) Audacity (yeah, of course), which is okay, but not really as packed as these others... but it does have some good purposes, especially for being a way to convert to AAC files so you can download your song onto YouTube (which as you probably know, requires at least 1 image, if not a video, etc., to be able to post).

For now, I'm learning and trying to see if there's any difference in these free programs.  At my basic level, there's not a lot.  As I get more advanced and learn stuff like adding effects and all that, it'll make a difference.

2)  A recording table:  Running cost:  $30.
So I decided that I needed a BIG, wide, sturdy table.  I canvassed the neighborhood for "anyone got a free table they don't want?"  Nope.  Then I hit up Craigslist.  Some good stuff, but not worth toting a truck to Northern Round Rock.  Then I remembered that I used to be a State Employee once.  So I then remembered that the State maintains a semi-junkyard of old, discarded furniture, down in a big warehouse (not in a van) down by the river... as in just off 183 by the sewage treatment plant.  So I stopped there one day and secured the perfect table, for $30.  I'll take it (not worth an individual pic, you'll see it in the last one here).

3) The Monitors.  Running cost:  $30.
I almost ran out and bought a nice set of $300 KRK's, Mackie's, or even my beloved Yamaha (more on that later), but then I remembered... I bought a nice set of JBL J2060 speakers for the wifey when we were dating.. they've been sitting around, used 'em for TV amplification about 15 years ago, but after that, they just sat there.  So I picked them up and plugged them in.

My god, they sound pretty damn good.  BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS?  For monitoring?  Yep, at least right now.  And I have to tell you, the mixes (to me) from it have sounded awesome.  I'm going to keep using these until the tech prohibits it, or until some sage tells my why I'm an idiot and it's credible.  Anyway, here y'go:

 

4) A shelf.  Because, like, who can't use a shelf? Running cost:  $54.
So I decided that at some point, I was going to need a shelf, you know, just to make things easier to store, place, access, etc.  Plus I mean really cool people have shelves in their studios.  So I scoped Amazon, Craigslist, etc.  Meh, stuff was like $20-$30.  So I said, "Hey, I have a circular saw in the storage room and I haven't cut up anyone lately, so I need to get that out and get going!"  So I go to Home Depot, buy a slab of that white particleish board, some screws, and a can of 97¢ White gloss spray paint, and in 2 hours, cobble together a nice long shelf that perfectly fits my speakers for about $23.  Pic of fascinating shelf below:

However, in my cheapness, I didn't quite account for the slight sag in the shelf, as the stuff was just a bit more flexible than say a nice pine board.  No matter, I go back to Home Depot a few days later on another errand, and uh, "pilfer" a chunk of that closet hanger cylindrical wood from their scrap pile near the big saw in the back - covertly, because they'll still charge me something for that basically worthless 3 foot piece of wood - and take it home, saw it off, and have my support (visible there and in the pic below).  Now I have a straight shelf!

5) Massive Power Plant for "Monitors."  Running cost:  $54.
So, without their own power, what to do?  Well, I have this Onkyo 35W RMS receiver I bought in 1983 sitting around, again I used it a lot in the 80's, powered my home theater in the 90's, but then got tucked away.  So I pull it out, plug it in, and well, it'll work!  At least it works better than my picture taking ability (you might be hungover, but the blurriness is not due to that, sorry, but meh, you get the idea).  Also notice said pilfered cylinder support on right.

6) This picture isn't that big a deal, but whatever... Running cost: $54.
Just for shits/grins, in case I ever need it, I still have my dual cassette and JVC CD player on hand.  Might convert/import some stuff from CD, but doubtful.  Actually, I just bought for $20 a REALLY COOL little portable cassette thing, looks like an old Walkman, that converts your cassette tapes to digital, and through Audacity, spits out a nice .mp3.  A GREAT way to salvage any personal stuff you have on cassette from 30 years ago.  It works amazingly!  Not part of my recording project (IMHO) so not included here, but if interested, let me know, I'll give you details.

text here

7).  My MIDI controller.  Or my real, true love (don't tell the wife!).  Yamaha Clavinova PF-100.  Running cost:  $54.
For this stage, there was no other one who could compare.  I love my Yamaha keyboard more than life itself. I bought it in 1990 and planned to use it on gigs.  But it's so freaking heavy that I decided to leave it home. Plus, I got married shortly thereafter, and had my first kid shortly after that, so my music career was obliterated - up to about this year.  Sorry, that's the way it's gone.  Maybe not for you, but for me.  Anyway, my "real" grand piano of choice by a mile is Yamaha (again another discussion),  But this PF-100 has such a great awesome sound and feel, it's exactly like playing a real Yamaha.  And no, I'm not exaggerating.  Much as you might feel you actually play better using a particular guitar, such is the case here.  Anyway, it's a lovely, lovely piece of work, I'm not sure they ever did it better since.  So this was going to be my MIDI controller, since it has MIDI.  Even back from 1990.  Imagine that.

8) How To Get MIDI for my MIDI.  Running cost:  $65.
So, there's only one problem.  Being from the time when people actually listened to Creed, although it had MIDI (on most keyboards since about 1983), it didn't have one thing:  A USB port (everything nowadays of course does).  So how do I get the controlling info into my iMac without one?  Well, there were several avenues.  One of course is to get some kind of weird MIDI-to-USB adapter (by this I mean simply a "dumb" (i.e. non-power) adapter cord, just with "appropriate" ends, not what I actually got).  Possible but not the best, plus I'd have to hook my old MIDI cables into the adapter and then that length into the computer.  As many know, MIDI hates length.  In a stunning 180 turn of events from the Surly motto, shorter is actually better.  I could always buy an interface with MIDI, sure.  But that's going to cost.  So, what's the best "cheap" solution?  For 10 bucks ($7.50 + $2.50 shipping) I picked up this little gem off of Amazon.  Instant MIDI to USB input for the Mac!

It works great.  Awesome.  I simply pop one end on the Yamaha, the other into the Mac, and it instantly read and recognized it, and within 5 seconds I was able to input midi (piano keyboard) info!  At this point, I'm still unable to use any external sounds on my Yamaha (just the MIDI info goes in, my several really good onboard keyboard sounds don't, but they're not supposed to... yet).  Nor, of course, I can't yet record vocals/guitar/external acoustic instruments.  But most of the onboard sounds in the DAW software by these days are pretty good, plus of course there are tons of plug-in packages, there really isn't a sound you can't eventually dupe to some degree (but of course not nearly to the degree of the "real" vocals, guitar, sax, etc.), but I'll get to that stuff later.  I've done several pieces now and let me tel you, having my True Love to play on when I input to the DAW (then just select an instrument in the DAW software) is superb.

9)  So this is my studio today. Running cost:  $65.
Does it (by "it" I mean the picture below as well) underwhelm you?  Good, sort of.  Does it put out a pretty good product?  Damn right, limited only by the knowledge of the human at the helm.  

Again, at some point, if I keep going with this, things might get prettier.. rack mounts, really good monitors, new power devices, extra keyboards, of course mikes, etc.  But for now, this is where the project stands after oh, about six months.

I actually am a bit anal-retentive, so I do appreciate a clean station... I'll probably buy conduits, better chords, more shelving (lol!) and even a picture of Gregg Allman or something to worship on the wall.  But this is where it is.  I hope it was moderately interesting if not interminably long.  But I wanted to get this down to give me the impetus to keep going.  I think I will, god willing I stay healthy and the kids keep getting more independent (i.e. "Dad!  HELP!").

Finally, I have an update later.  Up to this point my recording has been of course entirely with the software and onboard instruments.  People who know this stuff tell me that vocals and external instruments need to be recorded, too.  After that shock, I'm on the pursuit of that, and that's what the update will be.  One level at a time... first, get set up, then get at least some recording going, then refine, now add the ability to record externals.  That'll be later today.

Meantime, I hope we can discuss/talk about recording.  I know that actually there are a few of you who have done this, and still do, for a living or semi-living-serious-hobby, and I salute you.  This is not to demean the best and brightest gear, etc.  It's simply that I don't want to end up with a pile of shit, so the fun for me is taking it one slow, cheap step at a time, and most of all, looking to put out a quality sound.  On that I think I do know a bit, even if not exactly how to always do it.

So let's see how this goes... whether it lasts or not, I'm very glad I did this to put it all (documented) in one place.  Thanks for the time.  Sorry for the length (that's NOT what she said).

Update coming.. hint... I couldn't get around my first real cost roadblock.. well I could have, but even I have my limits! ☺️

Edited June 16, 2018 by phdhorn

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

13 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Sounds like a good thread.  I should point out that several surlies have considerable studio experience as engineers and/or players, including (but not limited to) Paul Wesley, Swayze, tbone, and myself.  Personally, I'd like to learn a whole lot more about editing, specifically with Reaper (because that's what I use).  I can definitely assist with room acoustics, some gear (mostly microphones, preamps, and how to use them).  I know almost jack about keyboards but I am about to need help getting my aging but badass Yamaha into Reaper via MIDI.

Yeah, but it feels like another life for me.  When I closed my studio back in 2005, I more or less shut the door on working in music.  I tried to work for a few months in a studio in Houston, but that was the end of it.  I doubt I could hang in a technical discussion if it pertained to anything that became a thing since 2005.  I might have a few entertaining studio stories though.  I will try to drop into this thread from time to time.  I do wonder where I would be if I had stayed in that business.

[BoomMF 1399]

If you are needing work space, I have the first desk I used as a studio workstation sitting in the garage waiting for a purpose in life. I moved to something larger with integrated rack spaces, but as a music workstation it'll accomodate a lot. It's the black desk from those first pics I posted way back on the other board. So, if you have a eidetic memory, that's the one. And I have a rolling sturdy af carpeted Odyssey rack that can accomodate like 20 spaces or something, also pictured in that other thread, that's minty and taking up space in the garage. They are both yours if you want them and can pick them up.

 

Either way, will follow this thread because I enjoy a good love story.

 

 

[PantsTent 2002]

Haven't done much lately but I've dabbled a bit mostly as a way of practicing guitar.  Just a Macbook with GarageBand for now.  PreSonus AudioBox for the audio interface and KRK Rokit5 monitors.  Got a couple of Shure mics from in-laws. 

[phdhorn 6224]

Update:
Oops!  Forgot my rubbers! (no change in running cost to get set up, still at $65).
Left this out yesterday... always good to pad under the speaker/monitors to dampen the "bass-bounce" or other vibrations caused by the speaker vibrating on a hard surface.  So it turns out I had this really nice shelf matting lying around for the last year, makes a great insulating material.  I compiled the highly complex and enigmatic process of measuring, cutting, and placing this matting under the speakers (lol!).  Anyway the only drawback now is that the speakers are hard to move/turn due to the gripping of the matting.  Not really a problem, I don't expect to have to move them much, but if so, alas, that's a cross I'l just have to bear.

Okay, this came 2 days ago!  Alas, there was really no cheap way around this step, but I got a great deal, am still excited!  Running cost now:  $150.
So up to now, I've been recording exclusively using MIDI and my keyboard, then simply selecting a voice.instrument from the software I'm using and you got your composition.  However, of course, eventually you need to throw in vocals, external instruments (guitar, etc.).  While the average computer's onboard mics are far too paltry to do that, it can be done, but it can get pricey and also kind of clunky (involves sound cards, other hardware additions, etc.).  Of course very few people even give doing that a blink of a thought.  Obviousy e'rrbody uses some sort of Digital Audio Interface (DAI).    For you casuals, it's where you plug in your instruments, mics, etc. and then that device plugs into the Mac/computer and brings in the sound of that instrument.  Simple, but needed.  A typical DAI has a couplea 1/4"" inputs (your avg. guitar plug, and a few XLR sockets (a generally "cleaner" and better plug, obviously often used for mics but also for instruments as well.  Most DAI's have a single socket designed to take both/either.  They also have a type of preamp that can power condenser mics, which are usually highly preferred for studio vocals but need powering, unlike many good "live" mics (i.e. when you're perfoming gigs, etc.).

So I've scoped around for a few months, seeing if I could cobble a nice, used unit, or even come across some grandma that only used hers on Sundays, etc.  I did see a few things, but eventually just decided to bite the bullet and lay down the bucks for one of these.  And after doing a lot of research on capacity, size, features, price, etc. I decided on this little baby.  What is it?

The Behringer UMC404HD!  When the Germans aren't out trying to conquer Europe or something, they're obviously well-known for producing stellar stuff, from Porsches to beer.  They're also good in electronics, and have managed to produce this series of DAI's, which are insanely cheap for what they do.  I got a great deal on this sucker, using a 10% first buyer coupon and a "Crazy Ernie's" type big-volume store from Brooklyn - got the thing for $85!  This is the 2nd largest capacity unit, having 4 inputs (vs. usually 2 for the smallest capacity).  I'll go into the details later as to why, but this is the first really "new" item I bought.  Still under $100 (these things, even the "amateur" small ones, usually start at $150 on average, and can run up to about $1,000... and of course the huge capacity pro models can run $10K or more).  I'll explain why I'm so happy about this purchase, but later.

From this point, there's going to be a bit of a lull as I decide on my next mandatory purchase - mics.   I probably am going to need to spring for some type of studio condenser mic, and those things are not cheap at all... easily $500 and up.  However, lots of 'em, used, are on music listings of every sort (eBay, Craigslist, etc.).  I could get a great much cheaper "live gig" mic like a Shure SM58 (those of you who have gigged know what I'm talkin'bout) and eventually I'm going to pick up 2-3 SM57's (THE instrument recording mic, even in a studio, although again there are expensive studio mics that do an incredible job, but again, this is "basics to step up" process for me, so I know I'll buy a few 57's here in the next few weeks/months.  They can go as cheap as $50 used.  But I'll think about it.  Meantime, I'll have to set up the mac and Behringer to be able to find each other (a little more complex than setting up that MIDI thing), but it should be okay, and then plug my Strat into the thing and mess around.  I'm not a primo guitarist, but I can get by.  Oh, BTW, the Behringer has MIDI capability, so you could say, well here's the first instance of redundancy.. he bought that little MIDI connector, but now he doesn't need it.  Au contraire,  It's always a nice thing to not have to cram the DAI full of stuff at one time, and it might save me time if I have to do MIDI + instrument at the same time.  Anyway, even if it is, I "wasted" 8 bucks.  Oh well...

Anyway, this is where I'll probably stop for awhile on my build, but I hope that we can talk recording.

I'll post later (a day or so) on some keyboard stuff I'm looking at, including a great resource in Houston if you're at all into keys.

Until then, I'll let you know how tough it was to get the DAI set up and "findable" in the iMac... sometimes it's a bit of a cluster, but I think I know how to do it.  Then I hope to play snippets of some stuff I've done so far, if I can find a good direct place to upload an .mp3 or .wav file... besides YouTube.

Edited June 17, 2018 by phdhorn

[Loco 3754]

 

[UTGrad98 2318]

I was in a band while I was at UT in the mid 90s. Sang in the choir there too. We did all of our recordings at home and used Cakewalk. Played on 6th street for a few years before being forced to grow up and start a real job. I am hoping 1 day to set up a studio at my house and just write and record. Right now Im in work, fmaily and saving for retirement mode so its a number of years off still. Love the thread. Maybe Ill upload some of our old songs if I can find them on to youtube and let yall listen.

[Chad Fuck 17854]

In.

4loko (do we even need to do this anymore?)

 

[phdhorn 6224]

Hol-ee shit!  Well, I got this now, thanks to...
The wifey, who went out and Father's Day'd it.  almost did a "wtf?" on the $$$ but she insisted that she got a good deal.  My guess is she spent like $225 or so based on the research I've done on this mic.  It's a DAMN nice studio mic for a homer.  Wow, it did surprise me.  Holy shit, now I'm beginning to get committed.



Technically, although I didn't buy it and can "claim" that it's not in "my" expenses, it's "house money" (i.e. ours, so I'll add it to the running cost, but with an asterisk for that reason (also because I don't know exactly what it cost, I only have a good estimate).  Still, dayum, that's nice.
Running cost now up to about $375* to set up so far.

I have a lot of crap to play with so it'll take maybe a few extra days to come back with stuff.  Plus I have an update on notational software I picked up, and more on that another day.

"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more!"

Late.

[phdhorn 6224]

Quick Update:
Took a brief turn from the recording gear to discover this awesome notational open source software, Musescore.  It's basically amazing, and once you master a few key combos and tricks, man is it fast and thorough.

Maybe the best thing is it has a playback feature, and you can hear your own compositions immediately!  The app has a number of onboard instruments and even a bit of a mixer, where you can mute parts, adjust volume, even add a bit of effects!  Its not a recorder-mixer DAW, but man it is so awesome, nothing like it I've ever seen, even the old days of Galaxy or Finale.  And... as an open source product.. it's free!  Not "reduced features unless you pay some $" free, but free.

Here's one page of a liturgical thing I'm working on which will actually be sung this fall, a choir piece (I did a lot of composing as a younger pup but gave it up for fatherhood).  This is the quality of what it does, and it does it fast:

I swear if I had had this in 1980 I would have written 100X more stuff.  It makes composing, and more especially, playing immdiately your own stuff, so fast and rewarding, I've been doing this almost exclusively the last week or so since I got the other sound stuff.  And I can tell you that the choir voice in this app is better than any plugin or onboard voice in any DAW I've heard!  You can even do some tricks to make playback respond to the directions in the score (i.e. dynamics, ritard, etc.).

It is really awesome. 

Edited June 25, 2018 by phdhorn

[jimmyjazz 46479]

In general Rode makes pretty high value gear.  That was a good choice, wife.

[Mole 4336]

If you're ever looking for quick and dirty notation software that's free and online, Noteflight.com does the job pretty well. It's less powerful than Finale, Sibelius, etc., but it's online and way more intuitive to use.

Good thread. The minimum cost, but functional home studio has been something of interest to me as well.

[jimmyjazz 46479]

3 minutes ago, Mole said:

If you're ever looking for quick and dirty notation software that's free and online, Noteflight.com does the job pretty well. It's less powerful than Finale, Sibelius, etc., but it's online and way more intuitive to use.

Dude.  Thanks for that tip!  I have never wanted to spring for the industry standards because I really don't have much need for charting anything out, but I've always wanted to mess around with it.

[phdhorn 6224]

Oh one other thing to keep in mind is that with all of you hotshot axe choppers out there, once I get the recording goodies figured out, I'll probably have people come in and mess around to help me with the learning curve.  I'm a decent, actually pretty good guitarist but not a lead, and certainly not an effects honk.  I have some basic equipment and pedals, but I'm not that guy.  Some of you might be.  Plus I'd love to get some different guitars/amps/effects to understand the capabilities.  So stay tuned for that (I'll crosspost in the Guitar Pr0n thread when the time is near?  Payment?  I don't do no stinking payment!  Actually, maybe, depends on what I'm doing.  But some of you might want to jack around with studio work for your learning curve, but if I need a real hotshot for a real song (which is inevitable), funds will be negotiated, including and up to something from HEB, when it's open!

[Mole 4336]

The best part for me is that you can work quickly with it in almost no time as opposed to say Finale which can be very frustrating. The biggest problem with Noteflight is that if your score becomes too big, it gets pretty messy. The free version doesn't print multiple parts (it will print the entire score, even if the score is just one part) or do multi-measure rests and has a limitation of 10 scores per account. I use it all the time if I need to write out a single part quickly.

You can write things out in Noteflight, export, then import into other software. If you ever do that, for Finale at least, it loses any articulations and dynamics and every instrument is reverted back to concert pitch (no Bb trumpet or F horn). I've used it if I've started something in Noteflight, and while it's faster than restarting, it's a bit of a pain.

 

 

[jimmyjazz 46479]

OK, that's weird.  So if I write a trumpet part in Noteflight but send it to someone who imports into Finale it gets transposed?  Can Finale then re-transpose?

[Mole 4336]

Yes, you can re-transpose it, but it's a little bit of a pain. Basically, it loses everything but the notes in the conversion, so it's just a generic concert pitch track without the instrument, articulations, or dynamics.

Also, if you use the paid version to print out parts, that parts don't look quite normal. Nothing that's a big deal, just a few things, such as the instrument name and measure numbers, are put in strange spots. It isn't ideal if you ever find yourself arranging for any kind of ensemble.

That said, it's considerably easier and faster to use. I teach college music and use it all the time to make homework assignments and examples for presentations. It's also really good for opening in the classroom to demonstrate something quickly since it will work on any computer with an internet connection.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Mole

[jimmyjazz 46479]

Thanks, I appreciate the info.  Both of my younger kids (HS age) are eager to play on some recordings.  The older is very intuitive, and a highly skilled percussionist (mostly marimba).  She could read anything I put in front of her or just take direction without a chart and do something interesting.  The younger is an extremely literal kid who plays trumpet, and if everything isn't just so he'll get lost.

[tbone_ 14268]

In. Great thread.

 

Though, JJ, I must confess I know almost nothing about studio recording. Hopefully this thread will change that.

[phdhorn 6224]

Update:

Haven't been here in awhile, lots of shit going on this summer, plus as I said I was banging out 2 sacred choral pieces for (probable) church choir performance in near future (I can post one if you're interested, with a * about it).

Anyway, have been working on studying up on adding effects and recording "acoustic" stuff (i.e. vocals, input guitar, which is sorta acoustic because there's a lot to the sound of course added sort of acoustically (i.e. how much reverb, effects, which tone on guitar, etc.).  I'm about ready to roll on a few original projects, maybe I'll do a cover first just to try out my recording legs, we'll see).

Meantime although I got that excellent Rode mic (thanks wife), I feel like I've just inherited a 900 hp funny car and I need to drive a 400 hp. Mustang first.  That Rode is SO sensitive I wanna hit the ground running on it.  So meantime I've been looking for a decent but used SM58.  I'm very familiar with it and know its tones, etc.  I know it's a live-first mic but it'll work VERY well in the studio for my needs at least for now.  Didn't find a ball-buster price but got it on eBay for almost a steal - $67 for one with an on/off switch (a big deal to me since I'll take it out live, and man you want an on-off switch live, I think you know whaddimtalkinbout).  I also got Amazon's cheapass balanced XLR cords, the only downside is that they might not be industrial-strength "take it out on the road" and probably can't stand the wear/tear of that kind of thing.  But they'll be more or less set up permanetly or almost, so no continued setup/takedown bending and wearing.  Plus,  I know how to solder, LOL.  But the cords are solid humwise (hey, they're balanced) and not that long (25 ft.) with not a lot of interference going on (couple a computers and an amp or two).  Should work very fine through that Behringer DAI.  Can't wait!

Here 'tis:

Previous running cost:  ~ $375
Shure SM58 (used): $67
(2) Amazon's Best (lol) 25 ft. XLR cords:  #10 ea., $20 tot.

Running Cost To Now:  $462

Also, this is a head's up to some of you guitarists:

I'll be looking to bring some guitar dudes in to mess around and "hep" me with sounds.  Now, I'm a pretty damn okay guitarist, played rhythm for years in bands, know theory, all that, not a great lead guy, never really got into it.  But what I don't do well is "know thy instrument", that is what effects/pedals/potential sounds I can squeeze of out it.  As I posted in the guitar thread, I have a D-35 and a nice Jimmy Vaughan Tex-Mex Strat (I mean barely played, like almost never), which you would be welcome to mess on along with your own gear.  Mainly someone who knows their effects gear and could work with me on some sounds.  Think of it, at least at first, as a messaround time.  I won't pay you - yet - as I'm sort of a Beauty School recorder - that is, you might get a good cut, or you might get a shitty cut (sounds like shit).  But once I find my legs which shouldn't take too long, I've learned a lot already, I'll definitely pay guys for studio time once I actually start working on "serious" projects).  So think if it as two phases: 1) mess around for free (maybe a few beers, I mean I'm not anally cheap!), then 2) get paid once I'm ready to lay good shit down.

My HEAVY preference is for playing the styles I know best - stuff from, or sounding like, music of the 1950's-80's.  Yeah I like 90s-to-today stuff, but it's not what I want to focus on. Yeah I'll listen to this GREAT cut that sounds like something in the last 15 years, but I'm interested in dudes who naturally like "older people's" rock/pop and are at home with it.  We can discuss more "now-sounding" stuff (and face it, a lot of now stuff kinda sounds like stuff from points in the last 50 years anyway).  A first project might involve doing "our" version of a favorite classic, or simply something new that we don't know where it's going yet.  Mostly I'm looking for a pool of guys to call/use if need be, Lord willin' the river don't rise, in the future, and it's always fun to just create/jam (although nothing is worse than calling in guys and then sitting there looking for shit to play, so everyone "settles" for the typical 1-4-5 blues jam, then can't think of a single fucking thing to do after that.  So there will be "stuff on the agenda" even in the first stages here.

Anyway, think about it, and I'll ask for a PM if interested (I live in Bee Cave, BTW).  I have to go do D.C. to fix up/sell my mom's house so I won't be back until mid-Sept. anyway, but if you're interested in doing some studio shit and can play a good lead (and rhythm), think about it and I can call you for some stuff in the fall.  I have a lot of ideas and really don't want to spend an eternity "getting up to speed" more on the ax.  Enough guys could do that, plus I like the working with people.

Oh, and you can't be an asshole.  Unpossible I know, but we can try.  Mostly you can't be a dick who thinks he's hot shit and everyone around him a dumbass (well, you can think it, but just don't do it [#Buford T. Justice].   I'm not, I've played with enough assholes to know what one is, and mainly it's someone who's patient and open to ideas, can throw some in but not DICTATE them.  That's mainly the non-asshole stuff I'm looking for, you can go back to being assholish outsdie the studio but inside, we're  all cool, friendly, and not aggressive Yngwie Malmsteem wannabes. 

Anyway think about it, no PM's right now, I'll post in Sept.  And if we get 2-3 guys in the same time, even better.  Who doesn't like some company?
 

[BoomMF 1399]

For anyone who've been going bonkers trying to decide what mic to get for a home studio, which was me since I started going down this dark road, Sweetwater currently has the Slate VMS ML-1 Vintage (linked below) and the ML-1 at $300 off right now with 48 months no interest financing.  They're also throwing in the Classic Tubes 3 profile pack.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VRSML1-VE--slate-digital-vms-ml-1-vintage-edition

If you can't decide on a mic, why not buy one mic and get them all, imo.

Edited November 28, 2018 by BoomMF

[hullabelew 3724]

I can't wait to mess around with NoteFlight.  I just ordered one of those small, handheld Tascam DR-05 units to take to band practice.  It is just a bass, drums guitar but I really need to see how my guitar sounds in the mix and listen to see if I need to be playing any differently.  Plus, I can use it to practice guitar parts/solos and hopefully harmony.  

Anyone use one of these?  Also, I know it will vary but how much run time can I get on a 32 GB card?  Will probably be recording the highest quality MP3 format versus WAV to save space.  

[jimmyjazz 46479]

I'd guess 2 MB per stereo minute (80% storage advantage over standard CD).  32 GB should get you something like 250+ hours of stereo recording, twice that much for mono.

Now watch me be off by a factor of 10.  I don't think so, though.  32 GB is a lot of space.  It should hold over 40 standard CDs, and mp3 will be much more compact.

[hullabelew 3724]

Sweet.  Will definitely record in mono.  Right now, we are just playing through a PA in a guys basement, just working through songs to see what works.  Haven't had this much fun in years.  

[tbone_ 14268]

It’s a short list of things that beat jamming.

[UTCzech III 2912]

Bump.

Anybody have any experience with one of these?

Tascam DP-24SD 24-Track Digital Recorder

Just ordered one, had been looking at it for a while, they knocked off $100 thru February so I took the bait.  Should be adequate for my band's needs, just wondering if anybody has used one, what the learning curve is, etc.  Found some videos on Youtube of songs bands made using it, can turn out a pretty decent recording, hi fidelity is not a huge concern in the polka world, although I am a perfectionist and do want to get the best sound possible.  On back order now, but when it comes in I'm looking forward to playing around with it and getting to lay down some tracks...

[jimmyjazz 46479]

I can't address that particular product, but I used a Tascam MX-2424 hard drive recorder for years, and a pair of DA-88 digital tape recorders for even longer before that, and was basically thrilled with the build quality of Tascam's pro audio gear.  They do what they say they're gonna do . . . at least they did 20 years ago.

[Goredho 17512]

No help here, I’m all computer-based.

[Doc Holliday 199]

Relearning the piano these days, myself.  Bought this as a starter because she can also compose and has all the midi outputs.  Fun stuff to play around with.  Team yamaha. 

 

 

[Buzzrock 15026]

I have a full size M-Audio 88-key controller with no brains. I can run it into GarageBand or whatever with USB, but is there anything I can plug it into that will give me a handful of decent sounds (piano, electric piano, organ, clavinet) that doesn’t require a computer in the middle? I’d love to go right to a mixer.

[sidis 9844]

On 3/4/2021 at 8:37 PM, Buzzrock said:

I have a full size M-Audio 88-key controller with no brains. I can run it into GarageBand or whatever with USB, but is there anything I can plug it into that will give me a handful of decent sounds (piano, electric piano, organ, clavinet) that doesn’t require a computer in the middle? I’d love to go right to a mixer.
 

Assuming you don’t want to drop the funds on something like a Korg Kronos or something like that, novation x-station and native instruments’ komplete kontrol are two good options for inexpensive workstations with built in sounds. Decent key beds as well. 

[hullabelew 3724]

On 3/4/2021 at 9:37 PM, Buzzrock said:

I have a full size M-Audio 88-key controller with no brains. I can run it into GarageBand or whatever with USB, but is there anything I can plug it into that will give me a handful of decent sounds (piano, electric piano, organ, clavinet) that doesn’t require a computer in the middle? I’d love to go right to a mixer.
 

You need to figure this shit out, then teach me.  

[phdhorn 6224]

On 3/4/2021 at 8:37 PM, Buzzrock said:

I have a full size M-Audio 88-key controller with no brains. I can run it into GarageBand or whatever with USB, but is there anything I can plug it into that will give me a handful of decent sounds (piano, electric piano, organ, clavinet) that doesn’t require a computer in the middle? I’d love to go right to a mixer.
 

There are plenty of "sound boxes" you can do this with.   Google "MIDI Sound Module" or especially "MIDI Sound Box" (these are usually more specife, and w/o keyboard like you want). and you get a slew of them.  Most good ones are $50 up (premium range about $100).  They have their own preset sounds, and a few have other features (drums, tempo controller, etc.).  

One demo'd on YT (not my favorite sounds, but it has a lot of good features).
 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by phdhorn

[Buzzrock 15026]

Excellent thank you. 

[DoobieWah 1476]

[UTCzech III 2912]

 

[Goredho 17512]

[Buzzrock 15026]

Just showed up. Hope to be contributing to the share your music thread soon.

[UTCzech III 2912]

So I got my new toy back in March but have only had the time over the last couple of days to really dig into it and see how it works.  Recorded a little 40 second demo, 4 vocals and 2 horn parts, just farting around to see if I could actually get it to work.  Even added some EQ, reverb and panning.  Going to keep experimenting with it, learn how to punch in and out, explore the effects more etc., but really excited to get my band together and see what we can do with it.  Actually have a dance we're playing next Sunday, I think I might lug the recorder along and place 2 or 3 mics out front of the stage and see what kind of live recording I can get out of it.

 

[sidis 9844]

1 hour ago, UTCzech III said:

So I got my new toy back in March but have only had the time over the last couple of days to really dig into it and see how it works.  Recorded a little 40 second demo, 4 vocals and 2 horn parts, just farting around to see if I could actually get it to work.  Even added some EQ, reverb and panning.  Going to keep experimenting with it, learn how to punch in and out, explore the effects more etc., but really excited to get my band together and see what we can do with it.  Actually have a dance we're playing next Sunday, I think I might lug the recorder along and place 2 or 3 mics out front of the stage and see what kind of live recording I can get out of it.

 

Standard mackie control?

[UTCzech III 2912]

29 minutes ago, sidis said:

Standard mackie control?

(Shakes head) Yes...  I have no idea, I’m a trumpet player, I do good to hook our PA up...