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No more shines, Billy

GhostOfTomJoad

By GhostOfTomJoad
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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11311

Posted
Posted

this one is always a headscratcher to me. people use the shinebox all the fucking time like it's a case closed. "go get your fucking shinebox!" - it's a way of telling someone they are out of their fucking depth, right?

my problem with that is that billy batts ends up beaten mostly to death in the trunk of the car after telling tommy how it was. yeah, he was made, and yeah, they shouldn't have done it, but my point is that telling someone to get their fucking shinebox, in the origin story of the fucking saying, the guy who says it ends up beaten, then stabbed, then buried, then exhumed, then buried again. 

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12199

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7 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

this one is always a headscratcher to me. people use the shinebox all the fucking time like it's a case closed. "go get your fucking shinebox!" - it's a way of telling someone they are out of their fucking depth, right?

my problem with that is that billy batts ends up beaten mostly to death in the trunk of the car after telling tommy how it was. yeah, he was made, and yeah, they shouldn't have done it, but my point is that telling someone to get their fucking shinebox, in the origin story of the fucking saying, the guy who says it ends up beaten, then stabbed, then buried, then exhumed, then buried again. 

But Tommy was out of his depth and his corresponding murder of Billy Batts is what got Tommy murdered in the end.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11311

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Just now, Al_4_ISU said:

But Tommy was out of his depth and his corresponding murder of Billy Batts is what got Tommy murdered in the end.

i'm sure that makes billy feel better about telling him to get him shinebox.

(but i do take your ultimate point, i just don't get it in most contexts. you can be correct and an asshole and still dead.)

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19444

Posted
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6 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

But Tommy was out of his depth and his corresponding murder of Billy Batts is what got Tommy murdered in the end.

That and a bunch of other stuff.  It was among the Italians, real greaseball shit.  
 

like my dad always said, only time you worry about the Italians is when they quit bitching.  

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12199

Posted
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15 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i'm sure that makes billy feel better about telling him to get him shinebox.

(but i do take your ultimate point, i just don't get it in most contexts. you can be correct and an asshole and still dead.)

Yeah, I get your point about it not working out for Billy, but I'm just saying it wasn't exactly the revenge Tommy thought he was getting either.

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Nole-4-Life

Nole-4-Life 797

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On 1/10/2023 at 2:58 PM, Porterhouse said:

I’ve seen both 30 times too. But I can’t see why anyone hates Tommy. And yes they are the exact same character. Nicky is far more hatable but more entertaining. His conversation with Charlie the Banker is one of the funniest scenes in the move. Probably the funniest. 

Ah yes....

"So....about the time I'm getting out of prison, HOPEFULLY, you'll be coming out of your coma. And guess what? I'll split your fuckin' head open again....because I'm stupid."

Nicky gave zero fucks.

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20535

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9 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

this one is always a headscratcher to me. people use the shinebox all the fucking time like it's a case closed. "go get your fucking shinebox!" - it's a way of telling someone they are out of their fucking depth, right?

my problem with that is that billy batts ends up beaten mostly to death in the trunk of the car after telling tommy how it was. yeah, he was made, and yeah, they shouldn't have done it, but my point is that telling someone to get their fucking shinebox, in the origin story of the fucking saying, the guy who says it ends up beaten, then stabbed, then buried, then exhumed, then buried again. 

another one that is a great insult and with a corresponding gif that gets used fairly frequently, but in the context kinda incorrectly - 

8e9.gif

ginsberg was absolutely in don's head

17 minutes ago, Deej said:

One of the greatest, if not the greatest, Steadicam shots ever.

 

 

 

 

awesome scene. total bullshit, but awesome scene. I love mob movies, or at least the great ones, but the romance around these guys is bullshit and this part is pure Henry Hill fantasy. He was a piece of shit, same with Tommie, Jimmy, and Paulie. But Hill was also not nearly this significant, as a piece of shit.

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Deej

Deej 76086

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3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

another one that is a great insult and with a corresponding gif that gets used fairly frequently, but in the context kinda incorrectly - 

8e9.gif

ginsberg was absolutely in don's head

awesome scene. total bullshit, but awesome scene. I love mob movies, or at least the great ones, but the romance around these guys is bullshit and this part is pure Henry Hill fantasy. He was a piece of shit, same with Tommie, Jimmy, and Paulie. But Hill was also not nearly this significant, as a piece of shit.

But that's how they saw themselves. We all have our truths that aren't anywhere close to reality.

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20535

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5 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Scorsese makes it clear that these are horrible, disgusting people living pathetically desperate lives. He clearly sets up & then rips to shreds the allure of being a wise guy and that the people who fall for that lifestyle are doomed from the get go.

definitely true - Scorsese is of course very purposeful about ripping apart that romance (even more so in The Irishman)

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12199

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Celery Man said:

another one that is a great insult and with a corresponding gif that gets used fairly frequently, but in the context kinda incorrectly - 

8e9.gif

ginsberg was absolutely in don's head

awesome scene. total bullshit, but awesome scene. I love mob movies, or at least the great ones, but the romance around these guys is bullshit and this part is pure Henry Hill fantasy. He was a piece of shit, same with Tommie, Jimmy, and Paulie. But Hill was also not nearly this significant, as a piece of shit.

Any time someone pulls the "I don't think about you at all" line, they're lying.  They want the recipient to feel that way obviously, but it's simply never true.

But I'm pretty sure that was the point in Mad Men.

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12199

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11 hours ago, Deej said:

But that's how they saw themselves. We all have our truths that aren't anywhere close to reality.

Exactly.  One of my favorite parts of the Sopranos is how they juxtapose the way gangsters see themselves from the way everyone else sees them.  They think they're living this absolutely glorious life where everyone loves them and brings them the world on a platter, but in reality everyone around them resents them and is being cordial so they don't get murdered.

Goodfellas does such a good job of building that romance early and showing the world the way Hill sees it, to bringing it all down to reality by the end.

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20535

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27 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Any time someone pulls the "I don't think about you at all" line, they're lying.  They want the recipient to feel that way obviously, but it's simply never true.

But I'm pretty sure that was the point in Mad Men.

he does "win" and drives ginsberg insane, ultimately. a better put down contextually than "get your shinebox", but I think that elevator ride is right after Don torpedos Ginsberg's ice cream pitch because he's threatened and feeling off his game.

My comment on Hill not being that significant was... obviously there is no honor among these guys at all, omerta is bullshit, they are sociopaths and murderers not soldiers, etc, but also even within that context, Hill wasn't the guy getting ushered through the backdoor or bottles sent to the table by pop singers.

I'm taking us down a tangent though - this is a masterpiece of a film and Scorsese does a good job of showing that Hill and his associates are pieces of shit.

Scorsese really is a master of sound in film - obviously the soundtrack here, the Layla long cut sequence, but just... I'd have to go watch it again to even understand what it is (the cut from the highway noise to the narration, over a black screen opening up to 1950s Brooklyn?) but the "As far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a gangster." line is one of the most perfect moments in film.

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12199

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

he does "win" and drives ginsberg insane, ultimately. a better put down contextually than "get your shinebox", but I think that elevator ride is right after Don torpedos Ginsberg's ice cream pitch because he's threatened and feeling off his game.

My comment on Hill not being that significant was... obviously there is no honor among these guys at all, omerta is bullshit, they are sociopaths and murderers not soldiers, etc, but also even within that context, Hill wasn't the guy getting ushered through the backdoor or bottles sent to the table by pop singers.

I'm taking us down a tangent though - this is a masterpiece of a film and Scorsese does a good job of showing that Hill and his associates are pieces of shit.

Scorsese really is a master of sound in film - obviously the soundtrack here, the Layla long cut sequence, but just... I'd have to go watch it again to even understand what it is (the cut from the highway noise to the narration, over a black screen opening up to 1950s Brooklyn?) but the "As far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a gangster." line is one of the most perfect moments in film.

But Draper is thinking about him.  That's all I'm saying.  Anyone who has to tell you how little they care, absolutely fucking cares.

 

Agreed 100% on the last part.  There are so many incredible Scorsese musical cuts.  The Layla sequence is probably his finest work, but I absolutely love how he places "Monkey Man" by The Stones into the coked out day that Henry goes down.

 

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20535

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actually it's kinda interesting broadly - I'm sure this is an issue with autobiographical stuff across genres, but particularly with mob stories, the guys who tell the stories are all liars and sociopaths and so they are horribly unreliable narrators. Hill is probably broadly puffing up his status in the underworld in his story, but you also have Kuklinski's stuff which was almost totally bullshit, the Irishman/I Heard You Paint Houses story where the main events (Gallo, Hoffa) are probably bullshit, etc.

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Elvis

Elvis 3342

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15 hours ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Scorsese makes it clear that these are horrible, disgusting people living pathetically desperate lives. He clearly sets up & then rips to shreds the allure of being a wise guy and that the people who fall for that lifestyle are doomed from the get go.

Scorsese really shows how crummy the mob world is in The Departed.  Leo's line, "it's almost a futile enterprise" really nails it.

 

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Eskimohorn

Eskimohorn 5546

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Posted
Scorsese makes it clear that these are horrible, disgusting people living pathetically desperate lives. He clearly sets up & then rips to shreds the allure of being a wise guy and that the people who fall for that lifestyle are doomed from the get go.

Other media helps glamorize these thugs. One trend Im seeing now on social media are clips showing Tony Soprano as a badass. The viewer, who may have never watched the series, then gets a distorted view of his character, not showing his weaknesses and ugliness.
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dcbc

dcbc 14195

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On 1/10/2023 at 9:49 AM, Cheeseweasel said:

"As far back as I can remember I always wanted to be a gangster."

 

The opening 10 minutes of that movie is the greatest opening in Cinematic History. Fight me.

The freeze frame on Henry while the narration delivers this line is perfect.  Same with the freeze frame before the line, "But by then, I didn't care.  The way I saw it, everybody takes a beating sometime."  And then it unfreezes for the beating to continue.

Edited by dcbc
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66BUFF

66BUFF 2536

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On 1/10/2023 at 9:49 AM, Cheeseweasel said:

"As far back as I can remember I always wanted to be a gangster."

 

The opening 10 minutes of that movie is the greatest opening in Cinematic History. Fight me.

Raising Arizona (1987)

In the Coen Brothers' wild, fast-paced, Looney Tunes and Preston Sturges-like screwball comedy/fantasy - an original, contemporary, madcap screwball farce about the kidnapping of a baby (one of the Arizona quintuplets) by a redneck childless couple (Holly Hunter and Nicolas Cage):

  • the eleven-minute opening sequence (before the credits) of the first meetings between the two protagonists after paroles and multiple returns to prison: hapless petty crook Herbert "H. I." McDunnough (Nicolas Cage) whose crime addiction was robbing convenience stores, and female police officer and photographer Edwina or "Ed" (Holly Hunter): "My name is H I McDunnough. Call me Hi. The first time I met Ed was in the county Iockup in Tempe, Arizona" - as she kept instructing him to "Turn to the Right" for his crime photo, he called her a "little desert flower"; he learned her husband had abandoned her: "She said her fiance had run off with a student cosmetoIogist who knew how to pIy her feminine wiIes"; after repeated incarcerations for his "rambunctious behavior," H.I. was hopeful: "But I couIdn't heIp thinkin' that a brighter future Iay ahead. A future that was onIy eight to fourteen months away" - and when he became a free man, he proposed to Edwina
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mr. sunshine

mr. sunshine 2819

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On 1/10/2023 at 9:19 AM, Al_4_ISU said:

He annoyed me less in Casino.  Maybe it was because I saw after and was already desensitized to the arbitrary, cunty violence.

I've seen Goodfellas at least 30 times but only 2-3 tops for Casino.

I saw each movie in the theater when they were released and probably 30 times (?) on VHS, DVD, streaming etc. since.

Goodfellas is as close to a perfect movie as I've ever soon. Only behind Godfather 2 and Miller's Crossing IMHO.

Casino is definitely flawed but I'll be damned if it isn't as rewatchable as the others

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