Joe Biden 2023: The Dark Brandon Rises

[Guest]

Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

In upcoming elections I'll be voting against candidates who support or equivocate about terrorist attacks on our capital and/or undermine the integrity of our elections. Also will be voting against book bans.

Yeah, I made my post above and realized later I left out the entire "undermining elections" thing.

[atomheartbevo 90650]

3 minutes ago, tokamak said:

I think he beats Trump pretty easily. On the flip side, I think DeSantis would be favored over Joe. The age thing will be a big issue, and honestly I don't think that's out of bounds. How many people in their mid-80s do you know who are energetic and 100% sharp?

The more we see of DeSantis, the more I think he really only won his last election because Trump propped him up.  It's not that he had an (R) next to his name, he just sucks as a candidate and he needed Trump.

Also, I mentioned this in the election thread, but with Tucker going MIA from the nightly Fox News lineup, and the other hosts most likely not pushing the bullshit that riled up MAGA and cost Fox News $757 million (and probably going to cost them easily another billion with Smartmatic), I wonder how that will play out in terms of turnout.

That's assuming MAGA will still watch Fox News, because some of them seem a little mad.  Just a touch mad.

[aggie08 21801]

3 minutes ago, tokamak said:

On the flip side, I think DeSantis would be favored over Joe.

Two years ago, I would have completely agreed with this. Not anymore. Even if DeSantis can pull out the primary, MAGA is already being brainwashed to hate him. They obviously won't pull the lever for Brandon, but they'll stay home on election day in support of their cult leader. The GOP can't win national elections anymore without the MAGA contingent.

 

[mdmost 44055]

The best thing would be for DeSantis to win the nomination and Trump to run 3rd party. But DeSantis won't make it out of the primary. The attacks are only going to increase. 

[gmr548 16701]

The 2024 election will go as the economy goes (really going out on a limb there I know). If we continue the pattern of mild deceleration and either don’t experience or have only a mild recession, I don’t see where Trump finds the votes that weren’t there in 2020. His election deniers lost across the board for the important positions in competitive states in 2022.

If there’s a more severe downturn, it’ll be Trump.

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

37 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Roaring '20's

50's postwar

2010-2020 (not sure the name of that decade)

Off the top of my head.

You're clearly a white man.  

[HornOnTheBayou 9063]

43 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Roaring '20's

50's postwar

2010-2020 (not sure the name of that decade)

Off the top of my head.

You mean the era when a large percentage of Americans could not vote or have any type of say in their government because of the color of their skin? And if they did speak out, there was a good chance they would be lynched? Also, you should probably check and see what happened after the 1920s. Spoiler alert: it wasn't good.

Go read a history book or fuck off. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by HornOnTheBayou

[YGIFS 19458]

I know that there are many on here, myself included, that took 2020 with the approach of "Let's get rid of the cancer with Biden Therapy.  We'll deal with overall wellness in 2024, if we make it that far."  I think Biden could still sustain a mild, brief recession to close out 2023 or even Q1 of 2024.  Remember he's still got 6 fiscal quarters to work with, and while he's not the direct controller...we do see inflation cooling somewhat.  But something has got to get the fuck done on interest rates.  That was the quiet killer of Carter and H.W. Bush.  Even with low unemployment, rates have got to stall out and start coming down before the election.  It's way more important than a day of the S&P 500.  

I am most impressed with our stature around the world again.  He is quietly disassembling Russia and not bragging about it non-stop.  We are finally posturing towards China correctly, and the trade imbalance has likely apexed.  I like the infrastructure package and his general leadership tone.  I know I've berated this topic on other threads, but your team has got to get it's fucking act together with regard to judicial appointments.  A year from now, there's no more room or time...so get it the fuck done in the next 6-12 months.  

Theres a bunch of little things Biden has done that bother me, but I'll save that for more in election season.  There isn't a Republican or Libertarian in the field, or on the horizon, I'd vote for over Joe.  I don't know that I'm gonna bust my ass to bundle for him again in Texas among disaffected former Republicans.  As I stated earlier, we were just in a "let's put the fire out and worry about the home's foundation later" so hundreds if not thousands of us canvassed our like-minded friends and family across the country with our base in Texas.  And bundled a pretty good little warchest for him.  But we were just tapping into people's exhaustion with Trump.  It's more challenging, and frankly more depressing, to raise again off veiled threats of what's to come should Trump win again.  I'd rather focus efforts on Michigan and Pennsylvania, and probably Arizona.  Just 30,000 tired Republicans & Independents in each of those states saying, "Oh man, not this fucking Trump guy again" and any Democrat wins the EC by high double digits.  

All that to say, he has to declare soon to keep advancing his agenda and keep the House GOP on its toes.  He can always defer in late 2023 calendar before holiday recess.  But the handoff has to be the most deft political maneuver since the Civil War.  And I have no fucking idea what that looks like.  

[HamsterHookah 112]

40 minutes ago, Red Five said:

The Obama Decade.

Yep. I voted for him in 08

[mdmost 44055]

[HamsterHookah 112]

42 minutes ago, tokamak said:

I think he beats Trump pretty easily. On the flip side, I think DeSantis would be favored over Joe. The age thing will be a big issue, and honestly I don't think that's out of bounds. How many people in their mid-80s do you know who are energetic and 100% sharp?

I guess nobody trusts Kamala to get it done? I don't know a ton about her, but she must be a dud behind the scenes or something.

I think you are right and that Biden cruises for another 4. I think he will have to pick a strong VP this go, however, because at the age and the stress of the job, the concern has to be a natural passing while in the seat.

[TexArcher 39072]

36 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

If we continue the pattern of mild deceleration and either don’t experience or have only a mild recession, I don’t see where Trump finds the votes that weren’t there in 2020.

I agree with your sentiment that Trump probably can't win a straight election.  The problem is that the GOP knows that and has been building the infrastructure to "win" anyway.

And who's going to stop them -- the Supreme Court?

We're pretty thoroughly fucked, I'm afraid.

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by TexArcher

[Js1 87186]

55 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

The problem is that the GOP knows that and has been building the infrastructure to "win" anyway.

They have?

Last I checked, they lost the Wisconsin Supreme Court and don't have control of Michigan or Pennsylvania anymore.  Georgia and Arizona are racing left. Trump couldn't win New Hampshire even in 2016.  Nevada is GOP's white whale in presidential elections. 

SCOTUS is very likely going to blow off the Independent Legislature bullshit. 

SCOTUS also refused to step in to save their boy in 2020 - how many cases did they decline to hear again? 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Js1

[Hefeweizen 5445]

The roaring twenties.  Before any protection for laborers, prohibition, limited voting rights, no environmental protections, no safe drinking water?  Get the fuck out of here with that stupidity.  Are you longing for time before antibiotics too?  What a Dumas.

 

And the 50s?  Again, go look at the waters in our country at the time, untold damage was being done with no checks at all.   Ohio and the Cuyahoga say hello.

 

I could go with 2005 because of VY.

[safe sex 12010]

What else do you expect from someone whom I suspect may be the first known case of a person being born and surviving into adulthood with anencephaly

Edited April 25, 2023 by safe sex

[mdmost 44055]

Roaring 20s. Great times if you could just avoid polio.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Preemptive post -

Joe Biden will not dump Kamala Harris so don’t fucking waste anyone’s time speculating about it.

[HamsterHookah 112]

15 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

The roaring twenties.  Before any protection for laborers, prohibition, limited voting rights, no environmental protections, no safe drinking water?  Get the fuck out of here with that stupidity.  Are you longing for time before antibiotics too?  What a Dumas.

 

And the 50s?  Again, go look at the waters in our country at the time, untold damage was being done with no checks at all.   Ohio and the Cuyahoga say hello.

 

I could go with 2005 because of VY.

Do you realize that you could pick out the problems from every year or decade? The premise was that today America is in better shape than it's ever been and I don't think that is accurate. From a sociological (we all hate each other, mostly), political (again, we all hate each other and our democracy is in bad shape), or psychological (we kill each other and have kids dying in schools literally every other day with mental health issues that are more out of control than typhoid or polio ever posed).

But there is some privilege in my thinking the '20 and '50s were great-- if you are a BIPOC or LGBQ you probably don't want to be anywhere before 1988 (as Louis C.K. said).

The 2010-2020 decade (pre-Covid) is better in almost every respect than today, for my money. Covid broke us.

Edited April 25, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[Hefeweizen 5445]

Sorry you live in such a fucked up world.  Mine is great.  Best I’ve ever lived in.  Getting better all the time despite bitching about things. Corona time was still wonderful for my family and me despite missing friends and other activities.  The 2008 to 2011 recession sucked Chrissy Donkey Cigar balls.
 

Maybe it’s a you problem, and not the world around you?

[HamsterHookah 112]

5 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

Sorry you live in such a fucked up world.  Mine is great.  Best I’ve ever lived in.  Getting better all the time despite bitching about things. Corona time was still wonderful for my family and me despite missing friends and other activities.  The 2008 to 2011 recession sucked Chrissy Donkey Cigar balls.
 

Maybe it’s a you problem, and not the world around you?

[DigglerontheHoof 21552]

Covid didn't "break us", it broke the "muh rights", gun-worshipping, right-wing Christian idiots.

[Post Oak 20568]

Nobody is cruising to victory in 2024.  From here on out courts and recounts and outrage will be involved.

[gmr548 16701]

I know that there are many on here, myself included, that took 2020 with the approach of "Let's get rid of the cancer with Biden Therapy.  We'll deal with overall wellness in 2024, if we make it that far."  I think Biden could still sustain a mild, brief recession to close out 2023 or even Q1 of 2024.  Remember he's still got 6 fiscal quarters to work with, and while he's not the direct controller...we do see inflation cooling somewhat.  But something has got to get the fuck done on interest rates.  That was the quiet killer of Carter and H.W. Bush.  Even with low unemployment, rates have got to stall out and start coming down before the election.  It's way more important than a day of the S&P 500.  
I am most impressed with our stature around the world again.  He is quietly disassembling Russia and not bragging about it non-stop.  We are finally posturing towards China correctly, and the trade imbalance has likely apexed.  I like the infrastructure package and his general leadership tone.  I know I've berated this topic on other threads, but your team has got to get it's fucking act together with regard to judicial appointments.  A year from now, there's no more room or time...so get it the fuck done in the next 6-12 months.  
Theres a bunch of little things Biden has done that bother me, but I'll save that for more in election season.  There isn't a Republican or Libertarian in the field, or on the horizon, I'd vote for over Joe.  I don't know that I'm gonna bust my ass to bundle for him again in Texas among disaffected former Republicans.  As I stated earlier, we were just in a "let's put the fire out and worry about the home's foundation later" so hundreds if not thousands of us canvassed our like-minded friends and family across the country with our base in Texas.  And bundled a pretty good little warchest for him.  But we were just tapping into people's exhaustion with Trump.  It's more challenging, and frankly more depressing, to raise again off veiled threats of what's to come should Trump win again.  I'd rather focus efforts on Michigan and Pennsylvania, and probably Arizona.  Just 30,000 tired Republicans & Independents in each of those states saying, "Oh man, not this fucking Trump guy again" and any Democrat wins the EC by high double digits.  
All that to say, he has to declare soon to keep advancing his agenda and keep the House GOP on its toes.  He can always defer in late 2023 calendar before holiday recess.  But the handoff has to be the most deft political maneuver since the Civil War.  And I have no fucking idea what that looks like.  

Can you elaborate on the judiciary point? I’m not going to pretend to be an expert but Biden has confirmed more judges at this point in his term than any President since Clinton (and more than every other President, save for Clinton, since at least Carter) and more appellate judges than anyone but Trump. It would seem to me he’s done okay appointing judges, which is why holding the Senate was so crucial. He can’t open SOCTUS seats but he can stock the lower courts.

I agree with your sentiment that Trump probably can't win a straight election.  The problem is that the GOP knows that and has been building the infrastructure to "win" anyway.
And who's going to stop them -- the Supreme Court?
We're pretty thoroughly fucked, I'm afraid.
 

The 1a or 1b most important outcome of the 2022 midterms (the other being holding the Senate) was that the GOP got stonewalled in bids to hold or take statewide governorship and SOS offices in PA, MI, WI, and AZ. They also lost the Nevada SOS despite gaining the governorship. Democrats took the Michigan legislature and just took the WI Supreme Court. That infrastructure is not there for 2024.

[shakahorn 1658]

45 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Preemptive post -

Joe Biden will not dump Kamala Harris so don’t fucking waste anyone’s time speculating about it.

Agree.  She brings in/retains more votes than she would cost.  Unless she gets replaced with another woman of color, none of whom are evident, no one else can increase the net votes.

[Incredulity 11876]

1 hour ago, mdmost said:

Roaring 20s. Great times if you could just avoid polio.

most of the 50's too.

[Fudge Nuggets 19455]

3 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

Roaring '20's

Europe was digging itself out of the ashes of WWI

 

3 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

50's postwar

Entire world except US and South America was digging itself out of the ashes of WWII

 

3 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

2010-2020 (not sure the name of that decade)

As mentioned above, thanks Obama

 

I would venture to say America in the 90's was as strong or stronger than today.  Thanks, Bill. 

 

Man, I'm seeing a trend with which party has America kicking ass on a regular basis.

[Js1 87186]

53 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

Nobody is cruising to victory in 2024.  From here on out courts and recounts and outrage will be involved.

Again, which courts are going to do this in 2024? 

The Wisconsin Supreme Court that is now majority liberal? 

The Michigan Supreme Court that is now majority liberal? .

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court that is majority liberal? 

The Arizona Supreme Court that tossed out multiple challenges by Trump, Masters and Lake in 2020 and 2022? 

The Nevada Supreme Court that rejected multiple Trump challenges to throw out votes in 2020? 

The Georgia Supreme Court that also rejected multiple Trump challenges to throw out votes in 2020? 

The United States Supreme Court that rejected multiple challenges to the 2020 election? 

 

What was the final count? 1 win and 54 losses? 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Js1

[WhatTheBuck 28930]

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Again, which courts are going to do this in 2024? 

The Wisconsin Supreme Court that is now majority liberal? 

The Michigan Supreme Court that is now majority liberal? .

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court that is majority liberal? 

The Arizona Supreme Court that tossed out multiple challenges by Trump, Masters and Lake in 2020 and 2022? 

The Nevada Supreme Court that rejected multiple Trump challenges to throw out votes in 2020? 

The Georgia Supreme Court that also rejected multiple Trump challenges to throw out votes in 2020? 

The United States Supreme Court that rejected multiple challenges to the 2020 election? 

 

What was the final count? 1 win and 54 losses? 

60 losses.

[HamsterHookah 112]

16 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Europe was digging itself out of the ashes of WWI

 

Entire world except US and South America was digging itself out of the ashes of WWII

 

As mentioned above, thanks Obama

 

I would venture to say America in the 90's was as strong or stronger than today.  Thanks, Bill. 

 

Man, I'm seeing a trend with which party has America kicking ass on a regular basis.

You'll get no disagreement from me. Outside of the whole Monica Lewinsky affair, he was the perfect president.

[YGIFS 19458]

What was the final count on that 1-63, IIRC?  

When Trump said he was the greatest President since General Washington, who knew his winning percentage would be that of the Washington Generals?  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13732]

3 hours ago, tokamak said:

I guess nobody trusts Kamala to get it done? I don't know a ton about her, but she must be a dud behind the scenes or something.

The Biden Administration doesn't know what to do with her. Not too mention that until January she couldn't venture far from the Senate to break ties.

Biden would be smart to start using Kamala more especially as we get closer to the election. The current admin overall looks to keep a low profile. Whether that is just their style or they don't want Biden in front of the camera too much, I think it's working.

2024 could be an interesting year due to the fact that we have 2 Presidents running against each other. That hasn't happened since 1912 when 2 Presidents (Roosevelt and Taft) actually came in 2nd and 3rd in the general election.

[Bullneck 19530]

1 hour ago, HamsterHookah said:

Making us look at Stephen A. Smith ain't going to win any friends. 

[Bullneck 19530]

8 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

You'll get no disagreement from me. Outside of the whole Monica Lewinsky affair, which was totally understandable given Hillary, well, was Hillary, and Monica was a cute, thick zaftig intern (wheelhouse!!), he was the perfect president.

 

[Chuckie Finster 23081]

2020 was a vote against Trump.

2024 will be a vote for Biden.

His presidency has been a remarkable success given the current political climate, and the fact that Republicans only real attacks against him involve his son should emphasize that.

[Pancho 46320]

 

[Chuckie Finster 23081]

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

 

Again, the fact that their attack ad on a CURRENT FUCKING PRESIDENT has to feature hypothetical imagery should tell you all you need to know about how his presidency has gone.

[mchookem 16769]

i mean

 

[gmr548 16701]

His presidency has been a remarkable success given the current political climate

It’s hard for me to give him anything better than like a C+ given the relative lack of progress against democratic backsliding and climate change, - though I concede that the latter can really only be judged several years down the road as the impact of the IRA becomes apparent - which are really the two existential, society altering challenges this country faces.

Also the handling of immigration has not been good. I’m sympathetic to the fact that he doesn’t control migration and the Democratic Congress could not realistically legislate immigration reform given their thin majorities, but the child labor stuff HHS ignored is really bad.

But yeah he’s been solid otherwise. I think he’s handled Russia-Ukraine brilliantly. I expected mediocrity and in general I think he’s met that bar. I think the vast majority of those who voted Biden over Trump in 2020 probably feel the same way.

[Bullneck 19530]

^^^ Out of curiosity, what would get an A+ from you?

[HamsterHookah 112]

5 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

^^^ Out of curiosity, what would get an A+ from you?

I mean, this is the best time we've ever lived in. Getting better all the time despite bitching about things. Corona time was still wonderful for my family and me, despite missing friends and other activities.  

Maybe it’s a him problem, and not the world around him?

[The Royal We 3100]

Why don't you sit this one out champ?

You know... quit while you are behind.

[gmr548 16701]

^^^ Out of curiosity, what would get an A+ from you?

You mean aside from mandatory CRT reeducation in schools, confiscation of all firearms, and nationalization of all of the means of production?

An A+? I’d have killed the Senate filibuster to pass comprehensive voting rights, climate, healthcare, higher education, and immigration legislation, and to add four SCOTUS seats (one for each circuit) because this court is off the deep end. And it would have been cool if his HHS had taken reports of child trafficking/labor seriously.

Realistic? Not necessarily. In Biden’s control? Not directly, but he was also against doing so. His influence would have obviously changed the game. But since you asked.

He’s been fine, he’s certainly earned reelection over a rematch against Trump or someone similar.

[Dahobbs 18324]

3 hours ago, mdmost said:

Roaring 20s. Great times if you could just avoid polio.

Polio is back too!

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03/polio-virus-pops-up-in-new-york-wastewater-again/

[Nice Guy Eddie 13732]

1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

2020 was a vote against Trump.

2024 will be a vote for Biden.

His presidency has been a remarkable success given the current political climate, and the fact that Republicans only real attacks against him involve his son should emphasize that.

This is where I'm at. Is Biden or his Admin, perfect? Of course not and it's unreasonable to hold anyone to that level. Biden won't go down in history as an eloquent President, but I also don't think that was him when he was 40 much less 80.

Biden has

• substantial legislative achievements including bi-partisan laws
• he got us out of Afghanistan (which was going to be ugly no matter the execution)
• he assisted in cutting Russia down militarily, perhaps forever
• and his gaffes has been relatively minor
• and maybe the most importantly, the daily drama has been removed from the Presidency. Remember how Trump's executive hour tweets would define the news?

 

 

[SimonBolivar 11064]

44 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

^^^ Out of curiosity, what would get an A+ from you?

Authentic taco trucks on every corner.

 

And you know what, we're getting pretty damn close to that utopia.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13732]

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Polio is back too!

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03/polio-virus-pops-up-in-new-york-wastewater-again/

here we go again

Quote

Rockland has one of the lower vaccination rates in the state; as of August, only 60.34 percent of 2-year-olds in the county were up to date on their polio vaccinations. Some areas of the county have rates in the 50s.

In contrast, even Texas kindergarteners have a 94% polio vaccination rate. 

[Bullneck 19530]

35 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

You mean aside from mandatory CRT reeducation in schools, confiscation of all firearms, and nationalization of all of the means of production?

An A+? I’d have killed the Senate filibuster to pass comprehensive voting rights, climate, healthcare, higher education, and immigration legislation, and to add four SCOTUS seats (one for each circuit) because this court is off the deep end. And it would have been cool if his HHS had taken reports of child trafficking/labor seriously.

Realistic? Not necessarily. In Biden’s control? Not directly, but he was also against doing so. His influence would have obviously changed the game. But since you asked.

He’s been fine, he’s certainly earned reelection over a rematch against Trump or someone similar.

Some questions:

• Did Biden have have the power to kill the Senate filibuster?  How do you do that in theory?  And how do you do it in practice with a 50-50 Senate with two of those being Synema and Manchin?
• Should he pack the court?  Hell yes.  But see above.
• Explain the child labor issue.  For real.  Why would he do anything or nothing?  

We all see the problems; what can be done is incremental and every attempt takes time and political capital.  If you asked me he's smashed it.

[atomheartbevo 90650]

3 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Covid didn't "break us", it broke the "muh rights", gun-worshipping, right-wing Christian idiots.

Don't forget the doomsday/survivalist preppers who had buckets of food in underground bunkers and solar panels and water wells and big-ass gardens who spent years studying how to live and thrive off the grid for that inevitable day when society collapsed.

And then a pandemic hits and they are supposed to reduce contact with other people.

And then they get told they can't eat in Chili's or get their hair cut at SuperCuts and their entire survivalist world comes crumbling down.

[Js1 87186]

3 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Some questions:

• Did Biden have have the power to kill the Senate filibuster?  How do you do that in theory?  And how do you do it in practice with a 50-50 Senate with two of those being Synema and Manchin?
• Should he pack the court?  Hell yes.  But see above.
• Explain the child labor issue.  For real.  Why would he do anything or nothing?  

We all see the problems; what can be done is incremental and every attempt takes time and political capital.  If you asked me he's smashed it.

No he can’t do it. He can lean on them to nuke it, but he risks them deciding to torpedo his agenda and nominations as a “fuck you” 

[Dnaguy 12632]

4 hours ago, mdmost said:

Roaring 20s. Great times if you could just avoid polio.

Or anything requiring penicillin.