Joe Biden 2023: The Dark Brandon Rises

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

They may just throw their hands up and not vote all together with the thought of a extreme progressive like AOC becoming president if Biden dies or becomes incapacitated. 

lulz at 'extreme progressive.'  like really.  just goes to show what i've said in another thread.  i don't want to really get into it and derail here, but maybe it's worth doing some self-refelction and historical study on why you think that's the case.

but yeah, changing up the ticket would be seen as a sign of weakness and indeciveness, sure.

[Pancho 44454]

47 minutes ago, Skipper said:

My issue with the D's isn't that they need to do a shakeup.  But they sure as hell needed to do everything they can to make Kamala visible and presidential the last 3 years given Biden's age.  Seriously - can you recall a less visible VP in any recent administration?  I can't.  I don't get it.  

She’s been very visible.
 

You just either aren’t paying attention or you’re using the wrong mediums. 

[Js1 85095]

Lol at saying Kamala isn’t visible. What the hell did Mike Pence do between 2016 and 2020 besides go to every bullshit prayer breakfast and pull some lame publicity stunts at NFL games with Mother?

[hobbes2702 12799]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

My issue with the D's isn't that they need to do a shakeup.  But they sure as hell needed to do everything they can to make Kamala visible and presidential the last 3 years given Biden's age.  Seriously - can you recall a less visible VP in any recent administration?  I can't.  I don't get it.  

Can you please just take some time to inform yourself before you do this shit?

[aggie08 21424]

It's weird how no one gave a shit about the role of the Vice President until a black woman became one.* I can't remember a single god damn thing that Pence, Biden, or Gore said or did as VP. Cheney was the outlier for obvious reasons.

*my condescension is aimed at the media, not you, Skipper

[TexEx15 17456]

 

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

She’s been very visible.
 

You just either aren’t paying attention or you’re using the wrong mediums. 

 

media

 

[dcbc 14404]

50 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

It's weird how no one gave a shit about the role of the Vice President until a black woman became one.* I can't remember a single god damn thing that Pence, Biden, or Gore said or did as VP. Cheney was the outlier for obvious reasons.

*my condescension is aimed at the media, not you, Skipper

 

[henrygandorf 29174]

1 hour ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

lulz at 'extreme progressive.'  like really.  just goes to show what i've said in another thread.  i don't want to really get into it and derail here, but maybe it's worth doing some self-refelction and historical study on why you think that's the case.

but yeah, changing up the ticket would be seen as a sign of weakness and indeciveness, sure.

the point he was making, though it was probably accidental, is that the moderate never-trumpers likely view her as the most radical of the radical, because fox news, so it's a non-starter.

we've won this exact election before.  now we have a better electorate.  it wasn't particularly close before, though closer than it should've been all things considered.  young people hate trump and the gop.  the almost-deads who voted in 2020 are now dead, either from covid or just because that's what old people do. 

i don't know what the spread is, but i'll take biden -12mm votes.

[Pancho 44454]

1 hour ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

media

 

thanks, dick. 

I was typing while doing incline bench. 💪

[Skipper 6103]

Yeah, I forget what forum I type on sometimes then I read the responses.  AOC isn't progressive, the economy isn't a concern and Kamala is a high profile VP.  Sure Jan.  

As a non "liberal" but democrat voter, just trying to provide some perspective from the moderate world view that is actually going to flip national elections one way or the other in battleground states.   Lots of tunnel vision over here but what else is new.  On the economic front - the smartest people in finance aren't confident where things are 6 months of now with sky high interest rates not taming inflation as expected, consumer demand/spending still super strong, strong job market, consumer credit defaults starting to noticeably creep up.   Nobody knows how this is going to go heading into a voting cycle and to dismiss it as a big risk for Biden is idiotic.

[aggie08 21424]

That's all fine and dandy, but the people who are going to vote for Trump because Kamala "isn't a visible VP"...were already going to vote for Donald Trump. Ain't no one actually cares about VPs.

[aggie08 21424]

Honestly, barring $7 gas, I struggle to envision a scenario where Trump picks up a significant portion of the independent voters through usual metrics. "Man, I was going to vote for Biden, but the economy forecasts sure are ominous. Guess I have to vote for the guy facing real jail time with the intelligence of a 6 year old who is going to lie and call for violence if he loses."

He'll gain a fair number of people who will fall down the conspiracy rabbit hole in the next year, but I'd argue that they were going to find their way there regardless of what Joe Biden, his cabinet, or the economy did or didn't do; they're consuming media that will never paint Democrats as anything other than evil and extreme.

[atomheartbevo 89407]

22 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

He'll gain a fair number of people who will fall down the conspiracy rabbit hole in the next year, but I'd argue that they were going to find their way there regardless of what Joe Biden, his cabinet, or the economy did or didn't do; they're consuming media that will never paint Democrats as anything other than evil and extreme.

If they aren't down that rabbit hole already, they probably never will be.  COVID was the perfect storm for them.

[henrygandorf 29174]

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Honestly, barring $7 gas, I struggle to envision a scenario where Trump picks up a significant portion of the independent voters through usual metrics. "Man, I was going to vote for Biden, but the economy forecasts sure are ominous. Guess I have to vote for the guy facing real jail time with the intelligence of a 6 year old who is going to lie and call for violence if he loses."

He'll gain a fair number of people who will fall down the conspiracy rabbit hole in the next year, but I'd argue that they were going to find their way there regardless of what Joe Biden, his cabinet, or the economy did or didn't do; they're consuming media that will never paint Democrats as anything other than evil and extreme.

it’s $7 here and ca isn’t gonna flip. 

[Skipper 6103]

8 hours ago, aggie08 said:

That's all fine and dandy, but the people who are going to vote for Trump because Kamala "isn't a visible VP"...were already going to vote for Donald Trump. Ain't no one actually cares about VPs.

I agree people that are going to vote for Trump generally are going to vote for him.  But there are still a lot of moderates and anti-trump R's you need to actually vote D in swing states.  And I agree nobody caring about VP's is accurate is just about every election until this cycle just because of Biden's age.  This time next year R's will absolutely make Biden's age the #1 issue (they know they would have absolutely zero chance at beating a 10 year younger Biden) and taking the position a vote for Biden is really a vote for 'President Harris.'  I just don't think the D's are adequately positioning for that reality.   There is still some time obviously.  This article kind of articulates my thoughts better:  Opinion | How Joe Biden should solve the Kamala Harris Conundrum - The Washington Post

[Skipper 6103]

8 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Honestly, barring $7 gas, I struggle to envision a scenario where Trump picks up a significant portion of the independent voters through usual metrics. "Man, I was going to vote for Biden, but the economy forecasts sure are ominous. Guess I have to vote for the guy facing real jail time with the intelligence of a 6 year old who is going to lie and call for violence if he loses."

I think a significant portion of the voting population flat out don't put that much thought into it.  There is a reason "it's the economy stupid" is still referenced every campaign season.  Trump's ridiculousness has been so normalized, sadly, a lot of people probably just don't give a shit.  I think state of the economy will definitely have an impact on blue collar workers in swing states and I don't think it's going to be any kind of thoughtful macro analysis.  Very much viewed from their personal situation.   Probably a good thing the UAW strike is this year and not this time a year from now but no doubt his operatives are trying to figure out how the hell to solve it before any kind of macro impact.

[aggie08 21424]

Biden is too old, but people dumb enough to conclude, "I'm worried that Joe won't make it through his term, and we'll have President Harris; I'm going to vote for the 3 years younger, prison-bound fat tub of lard and whatever sycophant VP he selects" have likely already made that choice.

[aggie08 21424]

7 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I think a significant portion of the voting population flat out don't put that much thought into it.  There is a reason "it's the economy stupid" is still referenced every campaign season.  Trump's ridiculousness has been so normalized, sadly, a lot of people probably just don't give a shit.  I think state of the economy will definitely have an impact on blue collar workers in swing states and I don't think it's going to be any kind of thoughtful macro analysis.  Very much viewed from their personal situation.   Probably a good thing the UAW strike is this year and not this time a year from now but no doubt his operatives are trying to figure out how the hell to solve it before any kind of macro impact.

You can convince me that the people that don't pay attention to politics whatsoever could be swung by the state of the economy, sure, but how do Democrats "win" that demographic by doing anything beyond what they're currently already doing: creating jobs and trying to keep inflation in check compared to the rest of the world.

[Neonmoon 38127]

Tell people about how good your doing, often . Repetition. Repetition 

The dumb people need you to hit them over the head with it. 

 

[Skipper 6103]

46 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

You can convince me that the people that don't pay attention to politics whatsoever could be swung by the state of the economy, sure, but how do Democrats "win" that demographic by doing anything beyond what they're currently already doing: creating jobs and trying to keep inflation in check compared to the rest of the world.

Don't necessarily disagree.  Just a concern heading into such a consequential election.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

23 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Don't necessarily disagree.  Just a concern heading into such a consequential election.

The real concern is there are too many god damn imbeciles that vote in this country. 

[jimmyjazz 45546]

I think the only way Biden could pick another VP candidate would be if he happened to luck into a SCOTUS opening and nominated Harris to the court.  It would be a promotion of sorts.  (Well, it would flat out be a promotion.  The question would be "is she interested?", and I doubt she is.)  In theory, the Senate would approve.

Or, she could refuse a 2nd term, maybe to take a highly regarded position in academia.  

In other words, she's Biden's veep.

[SydneyCarton 47846]

On 9/16/2023 at 9:10 AM, aggie08 said:

Biden is too old, but people dumb enough to conclude, "I'm worried that Joe won't make it through his term, and we'll have President Harris; I'm going to vote for the 3 years younger, prison-bound fat tub of lard and whatever sycophant VP he selects" have likely already made that choice.

Trump supporters think he's 55 years old, immortal, and the son of God. His age is irrelevent, particularly in a comparison with Biden's. 

[aggie08 21424]

42 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Trump supporters think he's 55 years old, immortal, and the son of God. His age is irrelevent, particularly in a comparison with Biden's. 

Right, so the "Biden is too old, but Trump somehow isn't" crowd is already full of decided voters, regardless of what Biden or his VP does over the next year.

[SydneyCarton 47846]

Just now, aggie08 said:

Right, so the "Biden is too old, but Trump somehow isn't" crowd is already full of decided voters, regardless of what Biden or his VP does over the next year.

Oh I agree. Trump could literally beat an old woman to death on live TV and he'd still get 30% of the vote. 

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

On 9/16/2023 at 12:37 AM, aggie08 said:

Honestly, barring $7 gas, I struggle to envision a scenario where Trump picks up a significant portion of the independent voters through usual metrics. "Man, I was going to vote for Biden, but the economy forecasts sure are ominous. Guess I have to vote for the guy facing real jail time with the intelligence of a 6 year old who is going to lie and call for violence if he loses."

He'll gain a fair number of people who will fall down the conspiracy rabbit hole in the next year, but I'd argue that they were going to find their way there regardless of what Joe Biden, his cabinet, or the economy did or didn't do; they're consuming media that will never paint Democrats as anything other than evil and extreme.

 

Saudi Arabia, if you are listening...

 

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

On 9/16/2023 at 9:19 AM, aggie08 said:

You can convince me that the people that don't pay attention to politics whatsoever could be swung by the state of the economy, sure, but how do Democrats "win" that demographic by doing anything beyond what they're currently already doing: creating jobs and trying to keep inflation in check compared to the rest of the world.

 

Messaging, messaging, messaging.

You roll out the PR media machine, and you crank it to an 11.

You tell every democrat that literally every word out of your filthy pie hole is about how good the economy is doing, and that any democrat who says otherwise or talks about Biden's age gets primaried.

Over and over and over, daily, nay multiple times a day, until the election.

 

[Js1 85095]

8 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

You tell every democrat that literally every word out of your filthy pie hole is about how good the economy is doing

You still gotta talk about abortion. Especially bc these idiot republicans keep trying to enact total or draconian bans. 

[StassneyHorn 6536]

From Linkedin

After laying off 10% of its workforce early this year, Salesforce is hiring again — and looking specifically for former employees willing to return to the cloud software company. At least eight executives recruited this year are so-called "boomerangs" who had previous tenures at Salesforce. At its Dreamforce conference last week, Salesforce held an event with 50 rehired employees, who received swag including a stuffed animal wearing a boomerang shirt. The company is aiming to fill about 3,300 positions, from sales to engineering

Will be interesting to see if other big tech names have the same approach, or continue to hire contractors. Tech layoffs were a major contributor to our favorite moving target (recession). Would love to be in these folks position after receiving severance, being told they NEED you back, and demand 20% more.

Edited September 19, 2023 by StassneyHorn

[jimmyjazz 45546]

10 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Trump supporters think he's 55 years old, immortal, and the son of God. His age is irrelevent, particularly in a comparison with Biden's. 

I love the fact that Biden was "too old" when elected at age 77, but Trump will be totally qualified at age 78

[David Dennison 18651]

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

On 9/15/2023 at 3:43 PM, Skipper said:

Yeah, I forget what forum I type on sometimes then I read the responses.  AOC isn't progressive, the economy isn't a concern and Kamala is a high profile VP.  Sure Jan.  

 

No reason to be a dick.  I took issue with your characterization of 'extreme.'   I would again ask which of her ideas are extreme, but it should be another thread really.

Quote

As a non "liberal" but democrat voter

Ah, well there you have it.  Perhaps you do view anything remotely progressive as 'extreme.' Has Biden enacted 'extreme' policies in your view? 

[Skipper 6103]

2 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

No reason to be a dick.  I took issue with your characterization of 'extreme.'   I would again ask which of her ideas are extreme, but it should be another thread really.

Ah, well there you have it.  Perhaps you do view anything remotely progressive as 'extreme.' Has Biden enacted 'extreme' policies in your view? 

I mean wasn't AOC proposing a 70% or higher marginal tax rate to fund the "green new deal".  That qualifies as extreme in my view.  I certainly don't follow AOC issue to issue but historically when she's made headlines she's been closer to the Bernie/Warren end of the spectrum.   Off the top of my head I can't think of anything Biden has accomplished I consider 'extreme'.

['stache 21758]

2 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I mean wasn't AOC proposing a 70% or higher marginal tax rate to fund the "green new deal".  That qualifies as extreme in my view.  I certainly don't follow AOC issue to issue but historically when she's made headlines she's been closer to the Bernie/Warren end of the spectrum.   Off the top of my head I can't think of anything Biden has accomplished I consider 'extreme'.

The horror. Who could ever imagine a 70% marginal income tax rate in the United States. Such extreme nonsense.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

7 minutes ago, 'stache said:

The horror. Who could ever imagine a 70% marginal income tax rate in the United States. Such extreme nonsense.

It would never happen in a million years.  Never has.

Oh, wait.

[Skipper 6103]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

The horror. Who could ever imagine a 70% marginal income tax rate in the United States. Such extreme nonsense.

Well aware of pre-Reagan. I answered his question. No desire to debate tax and spend policy with a bunch of progressives on this board.  But there is a reason Biden isn't proposing that going into an election year.  It's because it is, by definition, a progressive, not moderate, position.  Which again, was just responsive to his question.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

Just now, Skipper said:

Well aware of pre-Reagan. I answered his question. No desire to debate tax and spend policy with a bunch of progressives on this board.  But there is a reason Biden isn't proposing that going into an election year.  It's because it is, by definition, a progressive, not moderate, position.  Which again, was just responsive to his question.

I'm not sure if you realize this, but Joe Biden isn't AOC.

[Skipper 6103]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not sure if you realize this, but Joe Biden isn't AOC.

Read the fucking thread dude.  I was responding to MC Fresh Breath.  JFC

[jimmyjazz 45546]

3 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Read the fucking thread dude.  I was responding to MC Fresh Breath.  JFC

It's a fucking thread about Joe Biden, dude.  Don't continue the derail if you're gonna get pissy when someone points out the obvious. JFC.

[Skipper 6103]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's a fucking thread about Joe Biden, dude.  Don't continue the derail if you're gonna get pissy when someone points out the obvious. JFC.

If you want to play thread police, then go yell at LChorn for suggesting Biden could make AOC his VP which is what started the discussion.  

[G650 14086]

10 minutes ago, Skipper said:

No desire to debate tax and spend policy with a bunch of progressives on this board. 

I don't know, I don't find it super progressive.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

2 minutes ago, Skipper said:

If you want to play thread police, then go yell at LChorn for suggesting Biden could make AOC his VP which is what started the discussion.  

I am making a citizen's arrest.

['stache 21758]

Good lord, so anything that might be defined today as "progressive" is also "extreme." I forget that we live in a country where anyone left of Ted Cruz is considered an extreme leftist. 

[Skipper 6103]

1 minute ago, 'stache said:

Good lord, so anything that might be defined today as "progressive" is also "extreme." I forget that we live in a country where anyone left of Ted Cruz is considered an extreme leftist. 

Label it however you want.  It doesn't matter.  But be sure to tag me when Biden takes a position to almost double top marginal tax rates or similar that would risk the moderate votes he needs to win reelection.  

['stache 21758]

3 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Label it however you want.  It doesn't matter.  But be sure to tag me when Biden takes a position to almost double top marginal tax rates or similar that would risk the moderate votes he needs to win reelection.  

That doesn't make it an "extreme" leftist position, just one that isn't quite popular enough to gain votes. Same with single payer healthcare. Most of the first world countries have this, it isn't extreme, but currently doesn't have the votes in the US (I could rant on this for days but won't here). You're ironically making extreme characterizations of what is or is not an "extreme" position.

Edited September 19, 2023 by 'stache

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

In fairness to Skipper, he was answering me and I was derailing.   That broad swaths of this country have been persuaded that such things that he listed are 'extreme' is truly one of the major issues facing this country.  Not saying Skipper is the issue.  There are unfortunately tons who feel the same way.  Unlimited Pentagon budgets aren't extreme.  Proliferation of billionaires while the income gaps increase broadly not extreme.  Climate change not extreme. Crap, I'm derailing again, sorry.

To get back to Biden--I do think his age is a concern.  Not a 'oh my, I don't want to vote for him' because the alternative is flat out nazism.  But as McConnell has shown, you can be fine one day (totally evil but obviously quite cogent) and then drop off the next.  To me, that's concerning.  Not concerning enough to give the Executive Branch over to the loony bin, but still troubling to me. 

Barring an Eagleton moment VP choices don't matter in elections.  Well, maybe Palin damaged McCain but Obama was going to win that one either way imo.

Edited September 19, 2023 by MC Fresh Breath

[nbmishoid 938]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Well aware of pre-Reagan. I answered his question. No desire to debate tax and spend policy with a bunch of progressives on this board.  But there is a reason Biden isn't proposing that going into an election year.  It's because it is, by definition, a progressive, not moderate, position.  Which again, was just responsive to his question.

Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Nixon = progressives re marginal tax rates.   Genius.

[jimmyjazz 45546]

Age is a non-issue in this election.  Both guys are old as shit.  That discussion is silly.

['stache 21758]

51 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Nixon = progressives re marginal tax rates.   Genius.

Which, by technical definition, makes it conservative, right? Make america great again like the 50s and 60s? Back when housing, healthcare, and education was affordable, and CEO's didn't make hundreds of times more than average workers? 

Edited September 19, 2023 by 'stache