Joe Biden 2023: The Dark Brandon Rises

[atomheartbevo 89,630]

16 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

NO ONE under 40 answers their phone, not even for people they know.  And they don’t respond to spam texts.  I am not sure how you accurately poll people under 40 but it isn’t over the phone or via email.  Most people in their 40s are the same way.  Polling via phone is only going to accurately gauge the over 50 vote.

I would agree with @Biff Tannen that the age is up into the 50s - I don’t know anybody under the age of 60 that answers unknown calls anymore, unless they are expecting a callback or something.  Caller ID was a thing in the 80s and 90s so even the boomers have long been used to knowing who is calling, but some of the them are still of the mindset of “oh my gosh somebody actually wants to talk to me!”

 I recently had to use customer support for a company, and I wanted a human and didn’t want chat, so the website literally did a countdown of sorts letting me know within 60 seconds that I’d be getting a call and what the number would be. I would bet that was because too many people ignored unknown or random calls.  

[jimmyjazz 45,893]

12 hours ago, Incredulity said:

neomarxist

Quote

homophobic

 

I'm going to send you a dictionary for Christmas.

[Biff Tannen 45,666]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

the website literally did a countdown of sorts letting me know within 60 seconds that I’d be getting a call and what the number would be.

This is really smart.

[wildcat09 29,348]

33 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I'm only going to say one thing about polling and then I'm probably done with it until summer.

It is bad. 

There's something completely broken with it right now, and I have a hunch it is non-response bias, but the opposite direction of 2020.  In 2020, more likely than not, Dem-leaning voters were staying home, avoiding COVID and were around to answer the phone. Hence why Biden had much better polling numbers than his 2020 results. 

2022 and 2023 and 2024? I just don't think Dems are answering the phone, period. Poll after poll showing Trump/GOP winning young voters, even against non-Biden candidates, and 1/3 of black voters?  Fundamentally wrong. It is not going to happen.  

Anecdotally, my AT&T spam app on my phone shows it has blocked 7 political calls in the last 5 days. I don't even get notification these were blocked, so I sure as hell am not going to answer them. They could be fundraising, they could be polling - either way, they're blocked and my phone doesn't even make a noise. 

Polling is just a tool - feed bad data in, you get bad data out of it.  2022 midterms + 2023 special elections are much more indicative of 2024 than polling.  It is a business that needs to just be put out to pasture. 

I can't see how the overwhelming increase in spam and scam calls over the past 7-10 years (not sure when it really started but it seems like it really boomed under Ajit Pai, before carriers and phone manufacturers began implementing better blocking tech) could be anything other than catastrophic for the reliability of phone polling. 

[Brisketexan 105,083]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I can't see how the overwhelming increase in spam and scam calls over the past 7-10 years (not sure when it really started but it seems like it really boomed under Ajit Pai, before carriers and phone manufacturers began implementing better blocking tech) could be anything other than catastrophic for the reliability of phone polling. 

I am on the "do not call" list and have been since it came out.  It don't make a shit. I get a constant parade of such calls, probably 75% or more are spoofed numbers.  FCC don't care.  Carriers don't care.

The helluvit is, I often have to answer, because it will be an unknown number from a town where I actually have a client contact.  Are they calling me from a number I don't know yet (I don't have the cell of every one of my client contacts)?  So, I answer.  If it's spam, I just say "Fuck off" and hang up.  I don't answer polls, I block their number.  And I ain't young.

[atomheartbevo 89,630]

3 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Motion to insta-neg anyone who posts any polling because it's all junk and clickbait. Do you second?

Edited November 16, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[Pancho 44,720]

1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

Very homophobic.

perfectly on brand for the hypocrites 

Oh so NOW you care about homophobia?

Fuck outta here bro

[aggie08 21,492]

Shit, the more polls that come out with Trump ahead, the better. I think a lot of people have readjusted to something resembling their political normalcy pre-Trump, where they can ignore it for the most part, and it doesn't dominate their daily news feeds. Which is a good thing for everyone's sanity, but it probably breeds complacency. A couple reminders that we're dangerously close to electing these idiots again can't hurt.

[YGIFS 19,449]

I’m running as an independent in all 50 states under the ballot name “Spam Likely”.     We’re not not getting 100% unfavorables

[Neonmoon 38,129]

No one under 50 is taking the time to fill out a survey/poll/questionnaire. It doesn't mater what format. Phone/email/TikTok

People are constantly overwhelmed by information in this world. Most people are fatigued by it. No one is filling out a poll

 

[Guest]

I'm not an old, but also not on TikTok. How do you get news from there?

Is is just creators talking about things going on?  

[The Royal We 3,069]

It's a jet stream of bullshit.

[Js1 85,297]

1 minute ago, The Royal We said:

It's a jet stream of bullshit.

[Brisketexan 105,083]

1 minute ago, The Royal We said:

It's a jet stream of bullshit.

Fuckers at TikTok are swerving into Surly's lane, man.

[chainsaw 9,860]

6 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I'm not an old, but also not on TikTok. How do you get news from there?

Independent journalists and reporters who have accounts and get "stitched" by their followers and influencers. Or it can be traditional journalists whose articles get discussed by TikTokers. It's no different from how twitter and youtube were used in the 10s

[elfenix 34,227]

i'm sure candace owens is on tiktok doing her lying grifter act.  some people probably think she presents news.

 

[Biff Tannen 45,666]

28 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

No one under 50 is taking the time to fill out a survey/poll/questionnaire. It doesn't mater what format. Phone/email/TikTok

People are constantly overwhelmed by information in this world. Most people are fatigued by it. No one is filling out a poll

 

I did a text one the other day.  It was the first political poll I've ever been asked to participate in in my life.  It turned out to be right wing bullshit questions, but still. 

[Js1 85,297]

4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I did a text one the other day.  It was the first political poll I've ever been asked to participate in in my life.  It turned out to be right wing bullshit questions, but still. 

And there’s your other portion - right wing spam. Flood the zone, set the narrative. (See: 2022)

[chainsaw 9,860]

10 minutes ago, Js1 said:

And there’s your other portion - right wing spam. Flood the zone, set the narrative. (See: 2022)

I agree polls are becoming less reliable, but I also believe Joe Biden has become less popular with the left and with moderates. Whether that hurts him in the general election depends mainly on the particular states that matter (GA, MI, WI, PA, NV, AZ) and if Biden's 2020 voters plan to stay home, vote third party, or even vote Trump. It's wishful thinking to assume his drop in popularity won't hurt him. He needs to turn this around. "Dark Brandon" has been absent of late.

[SubliminalHorn 6,786]

I’ve responded STOP to every single fundraising text I’ve gotten the past couple of months. All democratic fundraising. Media would probably run with omg Democratic enthusiasm is down and they’re headed for catastrophe!! Nah, I just don’t need to be bombarded with texts telling me the world is ending. We’ve got all next year for anxiety. Imma chill right now

[Js1 85,297]

4 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I agree polls are becoming less reliable, but I also believe Joe Biden has become less popular with the left and with moderates. Whether that hurts him in the general election depends mainly on the particular states that matter (GA, MI, WI, PA, NV, AZ) and if Biden's 2020 voters plan to stay home, vote third party, or even vote Trump. It's wishful thinking to assume his drop in popularity won't hurt him. He needs to turn this around. "Dark Brandon" has been absent of late.

Actually about 4 diff polls have his approval around 45% as of this week. But that doesn’t get reported. 

[chainsaw 9,860]

10 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Actually about 4 diff polls have his approval around 45% as of this week. But that doesn’t get reported. 

I hope you are right but I don't need a weatherman to know where the wind blows. My opinion don't make a shit and quite frankly neither do national polls. It's all about those six states.

[texasdago 7,569]

2 hours ago, Snake Diggity said:

NO ONE under 40 answers their phone, not even for people they know.

Correct... and in fact I saw a person post a video whining about getting cold called.  Their definition of cold call?  A friend calling out of the blue without sending a text.  

[atomheartbevo 89,630]

3 minutes ago, texasdago said:

Correct... and in fact I saw a person post a video whining about getting cold called.  Their definition of cold call?  A friend calling out of the blue without sending a text.  

If a friend or relative calls me out of the blue without a text, I assume something bad has happened…

[Js1 85,297]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

If a friend or relative calls me out of the blue without a text, I assume something bad has happened…

Unless it's my mom, yeah, family usually sends a text first.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,437]

2 hours ago, BeardIP said:

 

Motion to insta-neg anyone who posts any polling because it's all junk and clickbait. Do you second?

 

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

DEMS IN DISARRAY 

[Horn Dog 9,816]

1 hour ago, SubliminalHorn said:

I’ve responded STOP to every single fundraising text I’ve gotten the past couple of months. All democratic fundraising. Media would probably run with omg Democratic enthusiasm is down and they’re headed for catastrophe!! Nah, I just don’t need to be bombarded with texts telling me the world is ending. We’ve got all next year for anxiety. Imma chill right now

This is a good way to get put on every spam call list there is.  Responding in any way lets them know there is a real person on your line reading their shit and leads to proliferation.  Report as spam then block is your best remedy. 

[SubliminalHorn 6,786]

1 minute ago, Horn Dog said:

This is a good way to get put on every spam call list there is.  Responding in any way lets them know there is a real person on your line reading their shit and leads to proliferation.  Report as spam then block is your best remedy. 

🤷🏽‍♂️ I haven’t been getting any since I did that 

[Brian Fantana 6,682]

1 hour ago, SubliminalHorn said:

I’ve responded STOP to every single fundraising text I’ve gotten the past couple of months. All democratic fundraising. Media would probably run with omg Democratic enthusiasm is down and they’re headed for catastrophe!! Nah, I just don’t need to be bombarded with texts telling me the world is ending. We’ve got all next year for anxiety. Imma chill right now

Dem strategy seems to be:

"See? SEE?! Look how bad the Rs are, please give us money so we can continue being somewhat less bad and do absolutely nothing for you in return."

[Biff Tannen 45,666]

21 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Dem strategy seems to be:

"See? SEE?! Look how bad the Rs are, please give us money so we can continue being somewhat less bad and do absolutely nothing for you in return."

"somewhat less bad"?  "do absolutely nothing for you in return"?  I mean, not sure what you are looking for exactly, but keeping a functioning democracy and not openly grifting the dumbest people in America out of all of their money seems pretty ok to me.

[Brian Fantana 6,682]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

"somewhat less bad"?  "do absolutely nothing for you in return"?  I mean, not sure what you are looking for exactly, but keeping a functioning democracy and not openly grifting the dumbest people in America out of all of their money seems pretty ok to me.

Yes, I'm just saying that the D strategy is now to just point at the GOP and say "see how much they suck?", which of course they do, and then just effectively do nothing but maintain the status quo while coming up with excuses as to why nothing can get done, GOP obstructionist politics notwithstanding.

Of course, with how quickly this country is spiraling into fascism, maybe that's the best we can do.

Everyone loses.

[nbmishoid 949]

They did pass some helpful laws, Brian.  This is beyond Repub capability.   The difference is real.  

[Brian Fantana 6,682]

PS: This is why that, until something changes, there will always be a Manchin or Sinema within the party to play the villain and torpedo any number of meaningful initiatives from getting off the ground.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Brian Fantana

[Brian Fantana 6,682]

1 minute ago, nbmishoid said:

They did pass some helpful laws, Brian.  This is beyond Repub capability.   The difference is real.  

Yes of course and that's why I will continue voting D. But the fact that they are better than the GOP doesn't absolve them from criticism as some here apparently think, considering the amount of push back it gets.

[SydneyCarton 48,067]

Yeah. Inflation Reduction Act, CHIPS Act, attempted to cancel large swaths of student debt multiple different ways, staved off a default and multiple shut downs at this point, multiple aid packages to Ukraine, and all while in the most vitriolic and partisan congress and nation in general since the Civil War, and they still accomplished more than any administration has in the past 20 years, maybe more. Brought Down inflation from Covid. Strong economy. 

But gee wiz, what the fuck have they really done? You don't get to just hand wave "GOP Obstructionist politics nothwithstanding" away because guess what, it's fucking real and it impacts everything. "The fact that he doesn't look like Brad Pitt notwithstanding, Huckabeef Sanders should have had more success trying to fuck supermodels."  Get the fuck out of here.  

What the fuck else did you expect them to accomplish, considering the curren environment?

[nbmishoid 949]

2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Yes of course and that's why I will continue voting D. But the fact that they are better than the GOP doesn't absolve them from criticism as some here apparently think, considering the amount of push back it gets.

Sure.  The dem party is a big disappointment to the left, on many issues.  Mostly they are slow.  

[Js1 85,297]

2 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Sure.  The dem party is a big disappointment to the left, on many issues.  Mostly they are slow.  

Progressive policies move slowly. But gee wiz, regressive ones fly by at light speed. Progressives should note how quickly everything can be undone if they don’t show up. It won’t be pretty 

[Brian Fantana 6,682]

1 minute ago, nbmishoid said:

Sure.  The dem party is a big disappointment to the left, on many issues.  Mostly they are slow.  

Yeah, I should have clarified that I'm coming at this from a socialist perspective.

Of course I recognize all the good that they have done and have tried to do, despite GOP and interparty obstructionist elements acting against them.

I still think my criticism is valid on certain key issues.

[Brian Fantana 6,682]

6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Yeah. Inflation Reduction Act, CHIPS Act, attempted to cancel large swaths of student debt multiple different ways, staved off a default and multiple shut downs at this point, multiple aid packages to Ukraine, and all while in the most vitriolic and partisan congress and nation in general since the Civil War, and they still accomplished more than any administration has in the past 20 years, maybe more. Brought Down inflation from Covid. Strong economy. 

But gee wiz, what the fuck have they really done? You don't get to just hand wave "GOP Obstructionist politics nothwithstanding" away because guess what, it's fucking real and it impacts everything. "The fact that he doesn't look like Brad Pitt notwithstanding, Huckabeef Sanders should have had more success trying to fuck supermodels."  Get the fuck out of here.  

What the fuck else did you expect them to accomplish, considering the curren environment?

We're on the same side here, champ, take a breath.

[Foosters 17,843]

13 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

We're on the same side here, champ, take a breath.

DEMS IN DISARAY!!

[SydneyCarton 48,067]

11 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

We're on the same side here, champ, take a breath.

We're on the same side on most shit man. Every time I have a slight disagreement doesn't mean I'm over here hyperventilating. 

I do think that the position you initially put forth is a very easy one we see often, and it supports a really bad narrative that we see everywhere in regards to the Democrats. Hell, there's not many groups of people that are more critical of the Democratic party than this group of posters here (outside of dumb MAGA dipshits), but the criticism of Biden and dems is pervasive, and everyone is so happy to just shit on them while in no way recognizing the actual, real, great fucking shit they've accomplished.

On a macro level, the discontent from the far left/progressive group, and the centrists, and the far right just creates this general malaise. I think it's why we see such low approval ratings, low polling. It irritates the fuck out of me. Biden might have accomplished more than any other president of our lifetime, and in the worst environment possible. But man, we sure can find reasons to be disappointed with him. And we have to stop it, on some level. 

 

[Biff Tannen 45,666]

33 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Yeah, I should have clarified that I'm coming at this from a socialist perspective.

Of course I recognize all the good that they have done and have tried to do, despite GOP and interparty obstructionist elements acting against them.

I still think my criticism is valid on certain key issues.

I agree.  There's plenty of criticism to go around.  I'm just not worried about it until we defeat these fascist fuck heads.  Then if I could get a Buttigieg/Warren admin or vice versa, with a halfway functional congress, we could get some REAL shit done.

[SydneyCarton 48,067]

11 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

The root cause to my small mind is simple:

The tent with the "R" on the front of it seems to be a much more niche and narrow and is a more homogenous group of people (and true believers are small). You don't need to accommodate for much diversity.

The tent with the "D" on front of it is very large and very heterogenous in that there are a lot of different stakeholders, interests, desires, identities, aspirations, etc. that call that large tent home to please, so it stands to reason you are going to have some internal fighting between coalitions, etc. In theory, it's a shark tank and the strongest and best idea will win and has been battle tested by the time it emerges, which I think we saw in 2020 with Biden. He was the only one who could end the national nightmare and he did. The system worked, though not everyone (like probably @Brian Fantana) was thrilled.

Fighting between D's isn't necessarily a bad thing when viewed in this context.

Fighting between R's (e.g. House Speaker housefire) definitely is.

Sure, I agree with all of that, until your second to last line. There is danger there. That danger is that when the infighting because a reason to abandon the coalition, or to convince other people that the coalition isn't working, or when it sucks all the oxygen out of the ability to recognize the good things that have been accomplished. 

We joke about it, gallows humor style, when someone says "Sure, that guy is an authoritiarian fascist who wants to end Democracy, but have you seen the cost of milk," but THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY PEOPLE, and not small numbers in the Independant area, that are inclined to think and act that way. 

[Biff Tannen 45,666]

16 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

We joke about it, gallows humor style, when someone says "Sure, that guy is an authoritiarian fascist who wants to end Democracy, but have you seen the cost of milk," but THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY PEOPLE, and not small numbers in the Independant area, that are inclined to think and act that way. 

I think the "Rs are good at the economy and Ds are not" may be the most enraging thing about all of politics, pre-2016.

[Js1 85,297]

16 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think the "Rs are good at the economy and Ds are not" may be the most enraging thing about all of politics, pre-2016.

Also Republicans are better at foreign policy. Uh like Iraq, Afghanistan and Iraq 2: Electric Bushaloo?

[Horn Dog 9,816]

It may be a good time to review how our government works.  There are 3 branches of government, and 1 of those is split into 2 parts.  If a contrarian party gets hold of even 1 of those branches, or even 41/100 seats in the Senate, it is almost impossible to get anything meanful accomplished.  Hell, if 1 (one) obstructionist senator wants to hold up a bunch of shit that the other 99 support, well apparently that can also happen under our current rules.  That is the political reality in play.  Despite this, Senile Biden has accomplished more than any other president in 1 term since probably Clinton.  All while being a drooling vegetable apparently.   But its just sooo disappointing cause we haven’t passed universal income or gone 100% solar!

[Biff Tannen 45,666]

1 hour ago, Horn Dog said:

  But its just sooo disappointing cause we haven’t passed universal income or gone 100% solar!

Or if you're of the "independent" or "centrist" persuasion, it's soooo disappointing because he's TOO OLD!

[bolverk 29,658]

An example:

https://www.threads.net/@gtconway3dg/post/CzuM_JfpZJG

Dan Rosenheck is the editor of The Economist's data team.

 

[mchookem 16,324]

omg you're fucking kidding me

 

[Js1 85,297]

Remember the Iowa voter in 2020 who didn’t know Pete was gay? She lost her mind 😂