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Sessions Charged with Violations of the Methodist Book of Discipline

Bozo_Casanova

By Bozo_Casanova
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Kyrie Eleison

Kyrie Eleison 9312

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could not agree with this more. pretrial incarnation is a huge problem, which is why i’m a part of the committee trying to institute risk assessment measures over the current bail system we’ve had since the institution of our Republic.

it’ll happen soon. we’ve got Nathan Hecht on board.
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plimon

plimon 190

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We didn't separate everyone, so it wasn't handled? And, again, you are evil. One day you may realize that. 
That is correct. My mom worked at a women's shelter on the border for 10 years. Refugees and asylum seekers were regularly brought in by the feds. Mom and kids at the women's shelter and dad's at a men's shelter. The families were then reunited once their status was determined. No cages, no guards. In the instances where abuse by the dad was a factor, they were given safety and kept away from the dude. These shelters were a blessing for most.

Sent from my KFGIWI using Tapatalk

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DanRydell

DanRydell 799

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There are a crap load of forms to fill out when seeking asylum status.  It's not the same thing as refugee status.  There are all sorts of requirements.   You need to be identified and you need a reliable address in the country.  These people need to be processed.  I'm sure you dont care if another Angel Resendiz gets in the country but you should


And those forms can be obtained by going to a port of entry and telling an agent you are seeking asylum.
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SideSlip

SideSlip 35

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6 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

You should mainline Drano

For the sake of humanity, have you thought about sucking on the business end of a shotgun?  You might find it quite liberating.  

 

And for God’s sake, put down a tarp.

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Guest

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20 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

So where are the cages in which these children are confined?

We got this one kid, Mongo... He's got a forehead like a drive-in movie theatre, but he's a good ship. So we don't bust his chops too much. So, one day Mongo gets out of his cage...

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31240

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Setting aside for a moment the inhumanity and indecency of splitting up families, Sessions' invocation of the Bible in support of it was really a bridge too far.  And by doing so, he subjected himself to this and I am glad someone (a religious entity better yet) brought him to task for it and did so in a formal, non-screechy way.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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F250

F250 28674

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16 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Setting aside for a moment the inhumanity and indecency of splitting up families, Sessions' invocation of the Bible in support of it was really a bridge too far.  And by doing so, he subjected himself to this and I am glad someone (a religious entity better yet) brought him to task for it and did so in a formal, non-screechy way.

SHS repeated it and then conservative media jumped in to repeat it but then the church put a stop to that shit pretty fast. That entire narrative died out pretty quickly. They were pretty exposed once they couldn't hide behind their religion of convenience.

It was a good outcome. I love it when an ecumenical plan comes together.

 

 

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relapse98

relapse98 634

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As a cradle to grave United Methodist, I'm just not a fan of this at all. I find it very vindictive and don't see what the end game is or how it helps anyone. Not a soul on earth thinks he speaks as the head of the UMC. A church trial or reconciling process will just lead to bullshit - he isn't going to suddenly see the error of his ways and repent.

 

I've also held for much of my adult life that if it takes a 913 page book to tell you how to run a church (that's the page count in the 2016 BoD - I can provide a copy if anyone really wants it) then you are doing it wrong. It should contain a single page with the Golden Rule and be done with it.  Too much wasted time in the polity of the church and not enough time invested in doing actual church.

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F250

F250 28674

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6 minutes ago, relapse98 said:

As a cradle to grave United Methodist, I'm just not a fan of this at all. I find it very vindictive and don't see what the end game is or how it helps anyone. Not a soul on earth thinks he speaks as the head of the UMC. A church trial or reconciling process will just lead to bullshit - he isn't going to suddenly see the error of his ways and repent.

 

I've also held for much of my adult life that if it takes a 913 page book to tell you how to run a church (that's the page count in the 2016 BoD - I can provide a copy if anyone really wants it) then you are doing it wrong. It should contain a single page with the Golden Rule and be done with it.  Too much wasted time in the polity of the church and not enough time invested in doing actual church.

I'll just nullify your complaint with an "as a United Methodist, I am a fan of the actions taken by UMC."

Although, I do agree with the BoD criticism.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31240

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I dunno, maybe it does set a bad precedent for the church, but  I certainly like it in this particular context.  He and many of his ilk reflect poorly on our church and Christianity more broadly, and I like formal statements of disapproval.  While many politicians privately invoke Christianity or do so in small, like-minded groups, JBS really went balls out with this one with very bad theology.

 

And, I suppose the BoD is ponderous, but what relapse argues for is essentially congregationalism and that is generally not a good thing.  I'll take a dense, unreadable book of doctrine over a rudderless collection of make-it-up-as-you go madrasas/congregations all day and twice on Sunday.  It has lost much of its significance, but the Methodist church did have to distinguish and justify itself from other prod denominations in the early going and the BoD represents that, as well as reflecting some serious religious and theological thinking that is lacking in a lot of less formal denominations.

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relapse98

relapse98 634

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8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, I suppose the BoD is ponderous, but what relapse argues for is essentially congregationalism and that is generally not a good thing.

Meh, I'm really not. I just think so much time is wasted arguing about the politics of the denomination that could be put to better use.

Quote

'll take a dense, unreadable book of doctrine over a rudderless collection of make-it-up-as-you go madrasas/congregations all day and twice on Sunday.

You wouldn't happen to be a lawyer, would you? ;)

Quote

It has lost much of its significance, but the Methodist church did have to distinguish and justify itself from other prod denominations in the early going and the BoD represents that, as well as reflecting some serious religious and theological thinking that is lacking in a lot of less formal denominations.

All the really good stuff is in the Social Principles section.

 

I just don't see the benefit of charging him with something from the BoD. Its nasty and vindictive and won't lead to anything worthwhile. I hate involving the church in politics like that.

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15469

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1 hour ago, relapse98 said:

I've also held for much of my adult life that if it takes a 913 page book to tell you how to run a church (that's the page count in the 2016 BoD - I can provide a copy if anyone really wants it) then you are doing it wrong. It should contain a single page with the Golden Rule and be done with it.  Too much wasted time in the polity of the church and not enough time invested in doing actual church.

As a Catholic, I arch an eyebrow of complete and total non-comprehension at this point.  Lacking a set hierarchy would allow Jeff Sessions to spout patent bullshit and pass it off as "biblical."  Lacking a set code of canon law and doctrine is how you wind up with confusion about what you believe, which allows characters like Joel Osteen and Kenneth Copeland who are willing to engage in heresy to misappropriate the Word for their own personal benefit (and if you know your history, you'll recognize that the Catholic Church has learned the dangers of that from experience). 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26271

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As an Episcopalian, I concur with @Ghost of LL. To me, the most salient charge is the fourth one - dissemination of doctrines contrary to the doctrine of the church. In Episcopal polity we don't just have people out there winging it. And the risks to the church here are minimal in my view. The complaint only asks Sessions pastor and Bishop to reconcile him to the church. It's not like he's being denied the sacrament or threatened with excommunication. 

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Ghost of LL

Ghost of LL 15469

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22 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

As an Episcopalian, I concur with @Ghost of LL. To me, the most salient charge is the fourth one - dissemination of doctrines contrary to the doctrine of the church. In Episcopal polity we don't just have people out there winging it. And the risks to the church here are minimal in my view. The complaint only asks Sessions pastor and Bishop to reconcile him to the church. It's not like he's being denied the sacrament or threatened with excommunication. 

That's what we do.  If he were Catholic, he'd run the risk of being placed under an interdict.

Which, by the way, would be well-deserved.

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25894

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23 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I totally had Sessions pegged as a Baptist. 

This has to be pretty humiliating for him, given that he apparently regularly attends, and it’s rare to be called out like that. 

FWIW, I've always assumed he enjoys getting pegged.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31240

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2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

As an Episcopalian, I concur with @Ghost of LL. To me, the most salient charge is the fourth one - dissemination of doctrines contrary to the doctrine of the church. In Episcopal polity we don't just have people out there winging it. And the risks to the church here are minimal in my view. The complaint only asks Sessions pastor and Bishop to reconcile him to the church. It's not like he's being denied the sacrament or threatened with excommunication. 

Right.  Because there isn't much penalty, just a discussion really, I don't see it as being a major drawback for the church.  It's just a peepee whacking, really.

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