Question for those familiar with surveying

[RowdyVic 106]

Travis Co. wont issue a permit for solar panel installation due to my survey being metes and bounds. They say it needs to be a subdivision plat. 

• Original property was 10 acres. Eventually divided into 3 separate plots. 3 acre, 3 acre, and 4 acre. Each plot has a house on it.
• According to Travis Co. Anything that is 10acres or more that is divided into 3 or more plots requires a subdivision plat for development.
• 1 of the exceptions to the plat is if the plots are divided for family members. My house was the 2nd plot and the house was built for the old mans son back in 2001. Nothing has been done to the property since.

My question is can I just gather all 3 plot surveys and get them compiled for subdivision plat submission? Or will all 3 properties have to get resurveyed?

[miguelito 11502]

That would be the question to ask Travis County.  It comes down to whatever they will accept. 

It might not hurt to go ahead and get the survey done, it might solve other problems for you down the road.

 

*I was a rodman on a survey crew for 4 summers, and my old man is a civil engineer, but I don't know shit about what you're dealing with.

[Gil Bang 26231]

"rodman"

haha.

[Eastwood 4394]

5 hours ago, RowdyVic said:

Travis Co. wont issue a permit for solar panel installation due to my survey being metes and bounds. They say it needs to be a subdivision plat. 

• Original property was 10 acres. Eventually divided into 3 separate plots. 3 acre, 3 acre, and 4 acre. Each plot has a house on it.
• According to Travis Co. Anything that is 10acres or more that is divided into 3 or more plots requires a subdivision plat for development.
• 1 of the exceptions to the plat is if the plots are divided for family members. My house was the 2nd plot and the house was built for the old mans son back in 2001. Nothing has been done to the property since.

My question is can I just gather all 3 plot surveys and get them compiled for subdivision plat submission? Or will all 3 properties have to get resurveyed?

There are a few things not making sense, here...

Do you have an actual survey or just a metes and bounds description?

If Travis County doesn't allow development without a plat on subdivisions of 10 acres or more that is divided into 3 or more parcels, except for the purposes of conveying to family members, then how did they subdivide and develop the 10 acres in the first place if they weren't granted the exception? If what you said is true, being that at least one of the three tracts had been divided out for the benefit of the son, then that merits the exception and puts the other two tracts outside of the restriction as, 1.) the parent tract would no longer be 10 acres, and 2.) there would be less than three plots subdivided out. It sounds to me like the exception for not having a plat has already been met, but there are a lot of factors involving the chain of title that involve timing that could play a factor.

[RDCanecutter 26878]

Tell them that the Treaty of Tordesillas was never revoked, and you claim your rights to solar panels as a subject of the King of Spain.

[El Diablo 4232]

^^ That or invoke imminent domain. Don't ask questions, just do it.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4999]

Also invoke Prima Nocte just for good measure.

[Eastwood 4394]

12 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Also invoke Prima Nocte just for good measure.

In most cases with city employees, he might want to pass on that one.

[RowdyVic 106]

There are a few things not making sense, here...
Do you have an actual survey or just a metes and bounds description?
If Travis County doesn't allow development without a plat on subdivisions of 10 acres or more that is divided into 3 or more parcels, except for the purposes of conveying to family members, then how did they subdivide and develop the 10 acres in the first place if they weren't granted the exception? If what you said is true, being that at least one of the three tracts had been divided out for the benefit of the son, then that merits the exception and puts the other two tracts outside of the restriction as, 1.) the parent tract would no longer be 10 acres, and 2.) there would be less than three plots subdivided out. It sounds to me like the exception for not having a plat has already been met, but there are a lot of factors involving the chain of title that involve timing that could play a factor.

Its a survey. The first plot was has the old mans house on it. The 2nd(mine) was the sons. And the 3rd had a barn on it at the time of the survey. The barn was converted to the 3rd house. The 3rd doesnt really makes sense. The current owner of it told me he had no problem getting a permit when he installed the septic. Fucking Travis Co.

All 3 of us have surveys. So would a surveyor be willing to compile the 3 surveys for the plat or will i be on the hook to get all 3 plots re-surveyed?

I am thoroughly pissed. How was I supposed to know this shit? If i had known i wouldnt have gotten the solar panels. They are financed and i am paying for panels that i dont have yet.

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[TwiceHorn 32074]

I guess this is Travco's kinda shitty way of forcing property owners to have "modern" surveys in place.  I guess the notion was "buidling permit" = actual construction of a dwelling, so survey/plat must be in order first.  Seems kind of chickenshit to do it to people pulling permits for minor construction.

[RowdyVic 106]

Yea it is shitty. I live out in the country. No city limits. Just trying to install solar panels.

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[Rusty Shackelford 414]

A plat is not just a map that a surveyor draws for you, it is a document that must be voted on and approved in commissioners court. You will need to talk with someone in the country development services office (or county engineer, not familiar with Travis county’s structure). You may be able to find a loophole and get platted or they may tell you that the old man made an illegal subdivision

My question is why you need permission from the county to install solar panels if you are in an unincorporated area?

[Catpfish 618]

Technically, you are supposed to get a development permit anytime you do something to improve your property.  It's the county's way of raising revenue and making sure they get their tax bite.  I have hackberry trees along the front of my property.  Were I to decide to cut them down, I should get a permit...I won't, but I should.

I had a friend get a pool put in and specifically told the builder that he was not to get the permit from the county.  He's going to ride it until the county finds thee pool via the satellite.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

19 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Also invoke Prima Nocte just for good measure.

He did say he was a Rod man

[Rusty Shackelford 414]

59 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

Technically, you are supposed to get a development permit anytime you do something to improve your property.  It's the county's way of raising revenue and making sure they get their tax bite.  I have hackberry trees along the front of my property.  Were I to decide to cut them down, I should get a permit...I won't, but I should.

I had a friend get a pool put in and specifically told the builder that he was not to get the permit from the county.  He's going to ride it until the county finds thee pool via the satellite.

Texas counties do not really have that much authority granted to them by the State, if you are talking about property that is outside the city limits but inside the ETJ of the City of Austin, then that might explain the ridiculous permits, but that would be the county enforcing the city's requirements.

[RowdyVic 106]

A plat is not just a map that a surveyor draws for you, it is a document that must be voted on and approved in commissioners court. You will need to talk with someone in the country development services office (or county engineer, not familiar with Travis county’s structure). You may be able to find a loophole and get platted or they may tell you that the old man made an illegal subdivision

My question is why you need permission from the county to install solar panels if you are in an unincorporated area?

The county said you can have metes and bounds surveys all you want. But if any development is done on the property and it falls under the subdivision rules then a subdivision plat is required. With the family exception in place I can see how there isnt a plat. At the time. The 3rd plot had a barn on it. The interior was done by the current owner. What i cant understand is how any plumbing, electrical, septic was done on the 3rd plot without the plat.

Solar panels are tapping into the electrical grid. Thats why I need the permit. But it all depends on if the installer is playing by the rules. I am in the sticks and no one would know but it is their license.

I am planning on talking to a surveying company about this but I figured I would pick ya'lls brains first.

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[Catpfish 618]

The septic is the only thing that would require an inspection.  Everything else could easily be done without the county knowing about it.

[Catpfish 618]

44 minutes ago, Rusty Shackelford said:

Texas counties do not really have that much authority granted to them by the State, if you are talking about property that is outside the city limits but inside the ETJ of the City of Austin, then that might explain the ridiculous permits, but that would be the county enforcing the city's requirements.

I'm ETJ of another city but since I'm on over 5 acres, that city defers to Travis County for regulation.  At the time I was carving out my acreage from a much larger farm, I was told by the county that a permit would be required to clear the hackberries and any further development or improvements after my house (plans approved by county but no inspections) and the approved septic (three inspections per code) would require a permit.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Catpfish

[Lobwedgephil 1146]

At this point you may as well just pay the couple hundred bucks for the survey. 

[RowdyVic 106]

That is my delimma..

I am assuming all 3 plot surveys are needed for the subdivision plat. Can a surveyor just compile all 3 surveys for the plat?

Or will the 10 acre boundry be used for the outline and my plot be the first registered plot within the boundry..therefore only my survey is needed?

Or will I have to pay for all 3 properties to be surveyed again?



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[Rusty Shackelford 414]

 

12 hours ago, Rusty Shackelford said:

A plat is not just a map that a surveyor draws for you, it is a document that must be voted on and approved in commissioners court. 

 

 

[Catpfish 618]

What Rusty is getting at is that it oculd take several months to get an approved plat.  The survey is one of the first steps if full approval by the county commissioners is going to be needed.  I think it took about 4-5 months when I went through the process in 2012.

[RowdyVic 106]

I am aware of the long drawn out process. At this point i am just curious what the surveyor needs..if anything.

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[Catpfish 618]

I think the county will determine that.  My neighbor, who I bought my land from, was going to sell a five acre tract on the far end of his property.  Travis county was going to require the new buyer to have all of the "original" tract resurveyed.  That meant that about 6 different tracts were going to have to be resurveyed and I think the total cost was going to be in the $7,000-$10,000 (or higher) range.  I think it will end up being something along TwiceHorn's post about the county trying to force "updated" surveys whenever possible.

[RowdyVic 106]

Yea..thats what I am afraid off.

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[Upgrayedd 5885]

I'm confused.  Where all three plots for family members?

[RowdyVic 106]

Originally 10 acres with house. This 10 acres is within a subdivision but is classified as a lot instead of block.

1st split=House and 3 acres. This was for the old mans' son.

Now there is 7 acres with the dads house and 3 acres with the sons' house. 2 plots.

The son moved back up north and the father went with him.

They decided to split out the 3rd plot with the barn on it. My guess is to maximize profit.

My understanding is that if the property is 10 acres or more that has 3 or more plots, then a subdivision plat is required for development permitting. So the plat wasnt required at the time of the splits. But now that there is 3 plots, if any development is done to any of them, then the plat would be required. The only development that has been done is on the 3rd plot. The current owner did alot of the work himself. He told me had no problem getting a permit for the septic...which pisses me off. I guess I am just dealing with an asshole at the county office.

My only concern is being told I will have to get all 3 properties resurveyed for this plat. I dont know if that will happen but I can see it.

Maybe I will get lucky and no resurveying is needed. But if it is, I am hoping that during the submission process they will just use the 10 acre boundry line and require that only my property get resurveyed. If any more development is done on the other properties then those owners will have to go through the process as well.

I was very confused about all of this as well. Still am actually. Just hoping to get more insight before starting the submission process.

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[zork 629]

2 hours ago, RowdyVic said:

Originally 10 acres with house. This 10 acres is within a subdivision but is classified as a lot instead of block.

1st split=House and 3 acres. This was for the old mans' son.

Now there is 7 acres with the dads house and 3 acres with the sons' house. 2 plots.

The son moved back up north and the father went with him.

They decided to split out the 3rd plot with the barn on it. My guess is to maximize profit.

My understanding is that if the property is 10 acres or more that has 3 or more plots, then a subdivision plat is required for development permitting. So the plat wasnt required at the time of the splits. But now that there is 3 plots, if any development is done to any of them, then the plat would be required. The only development that has been done is on the 3rd plot. The current owner did alot of the work himself. He told me had no problem getting a permit for the septic...which pisses me off. I guess I am just dealing with an asshole at the county office.

My only concern is being told I will have to get all 3 properties resurveyed for this plat. I dont know if that will happen but I can see it.

Maybe I will get lucky and no resurveying is needed. But if it is, I am hoping that during the submission process they will just use the 10 acre boundry line and require that only my property get resurveyed. If any more development is done on the other properties then those owners will have to go through the process as well.

I was very confused about all of this as well. Still am actually. Just hoping to get more insight before starting the submission process.

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Go down there and throw a coke on 'em.  Or, if you remember who you were talking to, go down there and try and get a different person in the dept to talk to about it in person with the knowledge you have upfront.  Tell him the land was split twice but first into a family split.  That should get your technicality about a family split because the second split was after it technically wasn't a 10 acre plot anymore.  So your split off the original 10 acres grandfathers your land into the type that doesn't need their outrageous new expense.  

Keep reading about it and talking to surveyors before you go in and have a plan.  With a couple of 2 liter bottles of coke in your truck, just in case.

[Eastwood 4394]

Go down there and throw a coke on 'em.  Or, if you remember who you were talking to, go down there and try and get a different person in the dept to talk to about it in person with the knowledge you have upfront.  Tell him the land was split twice but first into a family split.  That should get your technicality about a family split because the second split was after it technically wasn't a 10 acre plot anymore.  So your split off the original 10 acres grandfathers your land into the type that doesn't need their outrageous new expense.  
Keep reading about it and talking to surveyors before you go in and have a plan.  With a couple of 2 liter bottles of coke in your truck, just in case.

That's what I was saying up above. This shouldn't require a Plat because it fell under exception at the time of the split.

[Upgrayedd 5885]

So you own all of the parcels now?  That's my assumption.  Assumed also that they didn't perform the lot split for you.

I'd research if what you want to do qualifies as "development."  There are some definitions there and I'm not sure that what you are proposing qualifies as "development."

Even if the parcels were sub-divided under the exception, there has to be some sort of county approval.  Looks like it's some sort of letter according to 482.104 (b).  County should be able to provide you with the letter.  I'd be surprised if it wasn't recorded.

Take the letter to the person at permitting that is giving you grief.  Escalate to supervisor if required.  Rinse and repeat.  If that doesn't do it, pull in the commissioner for your district.

Obviously you want to avoid having to go the subdivision/plat route.  That's not just plotting the parcel boundaries on paper.  Go read what that process entails and you will get my drift.  If you are forced to go that route, you might have an issue with the seller and/or title IMO (unless this was all disclosed).

I'm not a surveyor (although I did take a year of it in school).  Not a land-use attorney.  I'm often wrong but never in doubt.  

[RowdyVic 106]

No sir. I own the first split(the sons place). I am the 3rd owner. The deed and survey was done in 2001. No development has been to the property since the house was built in 2001.

The only thing that is being done is adding solar panels. Eventually I am planning to add onto the house.

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[Upgrayedd 5885]

The approval letter is probably the way to go.  Get a copy of that.  Sounds like you'll need it later.

[phdhorn 6225]

On 6/20/2018 at 1:33 PM, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Also invoke Prima Nocte just for good measure.

 

On 6/20/2018 at 1:46 PM, Eastwood said:

In most cases with city employees, he might want to pass on that one.

Either that or what happens is one has sex while the other 6 stand around and watch.