Classified Documents...

[YGIFS 19,450]

Bitch all you want, this is a big fucking deal.  This evening and tomorrow (Friday, 27 January)...a massive assembly of big deals in the intelligence/governance world are descending upon UT-Austin to deliver a high-caliber conference regarding the state of our intelligence stewardship:

https://lbj.utexas.edu/events/americas-secrets-classified-information-and-our-democracy

Folks from both sides of aisle, career intelligence experts that are politically agnostic, some local folks, and serious academics.  This is a big fucking deal for UT.  This is arguably the largest, most intense, and biggest draw on the matter in the last several years.  Doubly important when you consider what's been gleaned from many former/current national leaders (no CR).  This kinda shit has obviously been taking place behind the scenes, but this is the most marquee event of its kind in years in public.  And it's happening at UT.  Bitch all you want, move the thread, whatever.  But if you're in town, get your ass there.  This should be beyond intriguing.  

Edited January 26, 2023 by YGIFS

[Samson's Wig 3,192]

Damn. Wish I could make it down.

[gmr548 16,580]

They should have Trump, Biden, and Pence all speak.

[Bevo 13,577]

2 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

They should have Trump, Biden, and Pence all speak.

Didn't Hillary get busted awhile back, also?

[YGIFS 19,450]

Damn you CR people!  

Obviously, the actions/inactions of some national leadership in the last 15 years has brought us to this point.  However, I was hoping to keep this non-political and just bring it to everyone's attention.  Look at the roster/agenda, this is a huge fucking deal.  The panels themselves will certainly have a political tinge to them, but am hoping we can keep it off this thread.  I know the very posting of the agenda has CR elements to it.  But I couldn't help myself, this is massive for our alma mater.  Just look at the names, this kinda aggregation of intelligence experts rarely happens outside of DC and it's on our 40 acres.  Pretty fucking cool, you ask me.  

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

Any word on whether or not this is a big fucking deal?

[Skipper 6,135]

8 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Any word on whether or not this is a big fucking deal?

That's the rumor.  But it's classified.

[52-80 19,159]

Meh. Ive known about this event for 6 years already. The invitation had been sitting around in my garage. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,817]

Any word on whether or not this is a big fucking deal?

Depends on who’s getting busted. 6 months ago? Some people didn’t care and some people lost their minds over it.

Last few weeks? Same people still didn’t care and those who lost their minds likely don’t care.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,200]

[SA-KC_Horn 1,295]

Will there be any tailgating? I got a case of Michelob ultra and frozen fajitas.

[Bateshorn 9,927]

I can't believe I'm saying this.....but take it to CR. Or maybe the football board. Both are equally full of sewage. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Bateshorn

[956 Worldwide 34,715]

This could be a great DT thread. Mishandling is one conversation but the bigger ones about what we classify and how we declassify and manage it is far more interesting. 
 

 

[YGIFS 19,450]

Well as we like to deny it, it’s a message board related to the university of Texas.  This is a thing happening at our school.  People can moan and groan all they want.  In the end, if you’re within 100miles, You should attend.  But bitching is easier; I get it. 

[ABSR 5,312]

When on active duty I had Top Secret plus clearance, and worked with a smaller intelligence agency/group.   If you want to declassify, or lower the classification on something there is a firm process and it involves the originator of the intelligence to review and approve (often they won't).

The running joke was that for the State Department (or any non-military or regular non-intel organization) that the declassification process involved taking a Black Sharpie and lining out the classification designation, then treating it as not being classified.

[Post Oak 20,213]

I'm starting to worry there might be classified documents in my house.

[Kennythetiger 9,384]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

That's the rumor.  But it's classified.

He could tell you. But then he’d have to kill you. 

[YGIFS 19,450]

6 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

I'm starting to worry there might be classified documents in my house.

Me too.  That’s why I purchased Patriot Document Insurance. If it turns out there are top secret papers on my property, I’m fully covered and not liable.  Even if they’re destroyed, burned, lost in a move, or sold to foreign axis powers.  

[Captainant 27,671]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Depends on who’s getting busted. 6 months ago? Some people didn’t care and some people lost their minds over it.

Last few weeks? Same people still didn’t care and those who lost their minds likely don’t care.

You appear to be missing some details, friend! Please allow me to add the additional information you may not be aware of:

6 Months ago? After taking dozens of boxes of documents, scattering them across multiple properties with zero security or access logging, and then being requested to return them, and then lying to certify that you returned ALL of the documents, and THEN after executing multiple federal search warrants discovering dozens MORE boxes, some people didn't care and some lost their minds over it.

Last few weeks? Finding a handful of documents at the singular residential property that were promptly returned and submitted to the prescribed governance steps to account for the missing time, same people still don't care (but a subset REALLY do now), and those who lost their minds can see that there's a clear difference in facts and scale of what happened and don't care as much.

 

If you can't see a difference between the two, and how they are materially different situations, you should get your money back for your GED.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Captainant

[Foosters 17,856]

This is why we can't have nice things 

[Pato del Muerto 52,499]

30 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

This could be a great DT thread. Mishandling is one conversation but the bigger ones about what we classify and how we declassify and manage it is far more interesting. 
 

 

I’m befuddled that apparently certain positions are basically allowed to ignore the classification and take what they want. While rank and file government employees get hammered for innocent mistakes.  

Edited January 26, 2023 by Pato del Muerto

[deadshank 24,653]

Politicians are dipshits.  

More news when it breaks.  Back to you, Bob.

[956 Worldwide 34,715]

22 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I’m befuddled that apparently certain positions are basically allowed to ignore the classification and take what they want. While rank and file government employees get hammered for innocent mistakes.  

It sucks but it is easy to understand. The vast majority of mishandling incidents are due to carelessness. At the rank and file level, this results in administrative consequences that have a real impact, like suspensions that impact promotion, review of access to classified information, etc. if you mess up too much, you can be replaced with minimal friction. This creates a culture of caution and accountability. 
 

You cannot fire or administratively discipline an elected or cabinet official or take away their access to classified information, even when it can be done technically it is completely impractical. “We are yanking the Secretary’s clearance” just won’t play. This creates a culture of carelessness and no accountability. 
 

In all forms of human endeavor, an inability to impose consequences means that rules fall by the wayside. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

You appear to be missing some details, friend! Please allow me to add the additional information you may not be aware of:

6 Months ago? After taking dozens of boxes of documents, scattering them across multiple properties with zero security or access logging, and then being requested to return them, and then lying to certify that you returned ALL of the documents, and THEN after executing multiple federal search warrants discovering dozens MORE boxes, some people didn't care and some lost their minds over it.

Last few weeks? Finding a handful of documents at the singular residential property that were promptly returned and submitted to the prescribed governance steps to account for the missing time, same people still don't care (but a subset REALLY do now), and those who lost their minds can see that there's a clear difference in facts and scale of what happened and don't care as much.

 

If you can't see a difference between the two, and how they are materially different situations, you should get your money back for your GED.

Alternate response:

You’re a fucktard

[DDD Dad 14,339]

2 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Depends on who’s getting busted. 6 months ago? Some people didn’t care and some people lost their minds over it.

Last few weeks? Same people still didn’t care and those who lost their minds likely don’t care.

Really insightful commentary here.

[DDD Dad 14,339]

1 hour ago, ABSR said:

When on active duty I had Top Secret plus clearance, and worked with a smaller intelligence agency/group.   If you want to declassify, or lower the classification on something there is a firm process and it involves the originator of the intelligence to review and approve (often they won't).

The running joke was that for the State Department (or any non-military or regular non-intel organization) that the declassification process involved taking a Black Sharpie and lining out the classification designation, then treating it as not being classified.

 

[DDD Dad 14,339]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

You appear to be missing some details, friend! Please allow me to add the additional information you may not be aware of:

6 Months ago? After taking dozens of boxes of documents, scattering them across multiple properties with zero security or access logging, and then being requested to return them, and then lying to certify that you returned ALL of the documents, and THEN after executing multiple federal search warrants discovering dozens MORE boxes, some people didn't care and some lost their minds over it.

Last few weeks? Finding a handful of documents at the singular residential property that were promptly returned and submitted to the prescribed governance steps to account for the missing time, same people still don't care (but a subset REALLY do now), and those who lost their minds can see that there's a clear difference in facts and scale of what happened and don't care as much.

 

If you can't see a difference between the two, and how they are materially different situations, you should get your money back for your GED.

There's really no point in engaging substantively with his posts.  You understand that, right?

[Pato del Muerto 52,499]

47 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It sucks but it is easy to understand. The vast majority of mishandling incidents are due to carelessness. At the rank and file level, this results in administrative consequences that have a real impact, like suspensions that impact promotion, review of access to classified information, etc. if you mess up too much, you can be replaced with minimal friction. This creates a culture of caution and accountability. 
 

You cannot fire or administratively discipline an elected or cabinet official or take away their access to classified information, even when it can be done technically it is completely impractical. “We are yanking the Secretary’s clearance” just won’t play. This creates a culture of carelessness and no accountability. 
 

In all forms of human endeavor, an inability to impose consequences means that rules fall by the wayside. 

Which is why maybe documents shared with elected and appointed officials need to have their own handlers to ensure compliance?  Even if they can’t control the documents at all times, they could at least be aware of and record who improperly handles them so we at least know what is missing and who took it. Or something. 
 

if there are “these documents don’t leave this room” libraries, have a marine inside them. Maybe this stuff is already happening and it’s just not effective. 

[SHOOTER12 8,810]

Shouldn't this be in that "Cloaky" place. You know it's going to wind up there sooner or later. 

[Jerry Callo 8,703]

I read this from H.W. Brands the other day - speaking about classification of presidential papers and classification of government documents more broadly:

Quote

In my own research into postwar presidents I have examined thousands and thousands of declassified documents at presidential libraries. I can say—and I am confident that my professional colleagues agree—that the great majority of these documents should either never have been classified or could have been declassified much sooner than they were, with no harm to national security. Classification has more to do with avoiding embarrassment than protecting national secrets. Bureaucracies have their incentives and dynamics, and bureaucrats err on the side of caution. 

I'm glad there are people trying to rein in over classification and difficult declassification.

I suspect @YGIFS will provide a summary of the event.  Thanks for posting.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Jerry Callo

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,907]

Every time an elected official mishandles a classified document they should be forced to take a 40 hour continuing education class on classified document handling

[Pato del Muerto 52,499]

4 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Every time an elected official mishandles a classified document they should be forced to take a 40 hour continuing education class on classified document handling

Do you work for big CE?

[Shaggy3.0 1,695]

 

Gordon can't figure out what the fuck any of these experts do.

Rather than having all these meetings with VPs and pencil pushers, why don't we just lock up all classified docs in a single master safe with a really big fucking lock?

Get rid of them--ALL.

 

[hayden_horn 11,362]

i don't know how this topic doesn't go full cloak room, but godspeed to all of you.

i happen to fall in the side of "way too much shit is classified, and why is it so fucking portable?"

fuck, i can't even save a word doc on a usb drive here at work. yet we have former and current officials just running around with classified shit.

it's like corporations where they tell you not to work in a public space, but your boss has you on a deadline, and i doubt anyone in the airport bar is really looking at my screen, so i'll just do some work on the database here.

except, you know, this is national security not some data about something or other else.

[Lhorn 4,913]

3 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

No foolin’?

[Native Horn 3,504]

2 hours ago, SA-KC_Horn said:

Will there be any tailgating? I got a case of Michelob ultra and frozen fajitas.

I'll bring some Tajin and a blowtorch.

[Js1 85,340]

1 hour ago, Jerry Callo said:

I read this from H.W. Brands the other day - speaking about classification of presidential papers and classification of government documents more broadly:

I'm glad there are people trying to rein in over classification and difficult declassification.

I suspect @YGIFS will provide a summary of the event.  Thanks for posting.

That dude is awesome and knows his shit.

[TexasGrunt 72]

What I dont get is why do they get special treatment?  Send them to jail, the docs they sign to get the clearance state this is punishable by jail time.  I had TSI, son has TSI, both of us Army.  If I took home classifed stuff, even by accident I would lose clearance and get punshed.  Take away the clearance and lock all of them up and even go further and check all of House and Senate.  Doesn't matter if you dont think it should be classifed, it is.  They are breaking the law and should not be in office.

[bolverk 29,677]

1 hour ago, Jerry Callo said:

I read this from H.W. Brands the other day - speaking about classification of presidential papers and classification of government documents more broadly:

I'm glad there are people trying to rein in over classification and difficult declassification.

I suspect @YGIFS will provide a summary of the event.  Thanks for posting.

Yeah, I heard an interview last week with another historian who agrees and wrote a book about it.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/19/1149906531/classified-documents-biden-trump-matthew-connelly-declassification-engine

 

[deadshank 24,653]

1 hour ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Every time an elected official mishandles a classified document they should be forced to take a 40 hour continuing education class on classified document handling

with exemptions, of course

[FartingMonk 3,606]

The only classified documents I want are the ones that are in Bill O'Brien's hands.  How do you perform so bad and keep getting kick ass jobs.  Has to be some classified NFL shit.

[atomheartbevo 89,674]

8 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Damn you CR people!  

Should have had a better thread title, as a lot of people will ignore this.

[F250 28,777]

4 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Every time an elected official mishandles a classified document they should be forced to take a 40 hour continuing education class on classified document handling

I take a mandatory one every year. That shit is mind numbing.

[Js1 85,340]

34 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

The only classified documents I want are the ones that are in Bill O'Brien's hands.  How do you perform so bad and keep getting kick ass jobs.  Has to be some classified NFL shit.

Probably the ones he was given by Jeff Fisher

[Anastasis 23,469]

“An Evening with Avril Haines” sounds cool. Someone should ask her about covering up torture programs, absolving the CIA hacking of the Senate IC, and how to properly assess the merits of drone strike kill lists when running an extrajudicial assassination program. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Anastasis

[YGIFS 19,450]

Cool, good idea.  Her panel starts in 20 minutes so feel free to join us.  I started this thread, not as a CR bitch-fest...but rather to celebrate how fucking badass our university can be at times when folks like us get the fuck over themselves.  I give time and talent to students because I believe in the mission.  I'm guessing you do as well.  It's the rest of the cunts on here who can't be bothered to do jack-fucking-shit that I take issue with.  The world is long on whiners.  Surly seems to be no exception.  

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

6 hours ago, Jerry Callo said:

I read this from H.W. Brands the other day - speaking about classification of presidential papers and classification of government documents more broadly:

I'm glad there are people trying to rein in over classification and difficult declassification.

I suspect @YGIFS will provide a summary of the event.  Thanks for posting.

I won’t even get you started on the new CUI and associated designations.   Completely useless and counterproductive.  

[Armybrat 40,849]

11 hours ago, Skipper said:

That's the rumor.  But we have only begun to defile ourselves.

Fify.

11 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Meh. Ive known about this event for 6 years already. The invitation had been sitting around in my garage. 

Next to your restored Yugo?

[Armybrat 40,849]

8 hours ago, Shaggy3.0 said:

 

Gordon can't figure out what the fuck any of these experts do.

Rather than having all these meetings with VPs and pencil pushers, why don't we just lock up all classified docs in a single master safe with a really big fucking lock?

Get rid of them--ALL.

 

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12,301]

2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Cool, good idea.  Her panel starts in 20 minutes so feel free to join us.  I started this thread, not as a CR bitch-fest...but rather to celebrate how fucking badass our university can be at times when folks like us get the fuck over themselves.  I give time and talent to students because I believe in the mission.  I'm guessing you do as well.  It's the rest of the cunts on here who can't be bothered to do jack-fucking-shit that I take issue with.  The world is long on whiners.  Surly seems to be no exception.