Classified Documents...

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Exactly. There is not a more self-important weirdo on this site. I wouldn’t attend anything he recommends if I had AIDS and he had the cure. 

[F250 28945]

37 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

Exactly. There is not a more self-important weirdo on this site. I wouldn’t attend anything he recommends if I had AIDS and he had the cure. 

How did you get AIDS?

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, F250 said:

How did you get AIDS?

Not full-blown but reading Guest Lobo posts will give you Magic Johnson HIV

[Gatorubet 30413]

11 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Every time an elected official mishandles a classified document they should be forced to take a 40 hour continuing education class on classified document handling

Or an angel gets his wings. 

[YGIFS 19453]

Only thing more reliable on this site than the ignore feature is porterhouse following me from thread to thread to indicate how he has me on ignore.  Truly remarkable.

Anyway, conference resumes this morning at 8:30a if anybody is interested.  Officials from State Dept., Prof. Suri, Clements Center leadership, Undersecretary for Intel., directors of multiple presidential libraries, CiA & FBI former leadership all in attendance.  

And predictably, porterhouse will chime in about how he never chimes in on any thread with which I'm involved.  It's kinda cute, it's so US.......

Edited January 27, 2023 by YGIFS

[YGIFS 19453]

Some of y’all are spot on.   Todays theme is the over-classification of materials.  In large part, inspired by of all things our relationship with Kai-Shek after WWII.  Interesting stuff.

Will await porterhouse to post about how he does not post about posts about no posting he doesn’t post about.  

Edited January 27, 2023 by YGIFS

[BabaYaga 15379]

22 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

You cannot fire or administratively discipline an elected or cabinet official or take away their access to classified information, even when it can be done technically it is completely impractical. “We are yanking the Secretary’s clearance” just won’t play.

Why not?

That's the crux of the problem - rules for thee, but not for me.

[BabaYaga 15379]

20 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

i don't know how this topic doesn't go full cloak room, but godspeed to all of you.

i happen to fall in the side of "way too much shit is classified, and why is it so fucking portable?"

fuck, i can't even save a word doc on a usb drive here at work. yet we have former and current officials just running around with classified shit.

it's like corporations where they tell you not to work in a public space, but your boss has you on a deadline, and i doubt anyone in the airport bar is really looking at my screen, so i'll just do some work on the database here.

except, you know, this is national security not some data about something or other else.

Why on earth would you take classified docs if they were not personally beneficial or implicated you of something?  Having the docs is one thing, but what's on them that was so important that they were taken in secret?  This isn't a case of "taking your work home with you" bullshit.

[Dutchrudder 11160]

[Chopper 17355]

26 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Why on earth would you take classified docs if they were not personally beneficial or implicated you of something?  Having the docs is one thing, but what's on them that was so important that they were taken in secret?  This isn't a case of "taking your work home with you" bullshit.

If you're talking about former presidents and vice pres, obviously there were very different motivations at play. Or in some instances, not even motivation, just overlooking and non-personal involvement, nor presumably involvement by anyone whose main job is oversight of classified info. Other than the current investigation involving the florida man where he knowingly stole and then denied having documents at the highest levels of classification , the 2 recent problematic instances of disclosure of top-secret info that come to mind are David Petraeus, passing along classified info to his biographer/side-piece, and, again, the obese man from FL who wanted attention on twitter and decided to tweet out a picture that disclosed key military satellite surveillance information to our enemies. Oh and the same dude passing along classified info to the russian ambassador. That and the ongoing joke that is the release related to the Kennedy assassination files.

Materials from government jobs need to be treated more like corporate materials - it belongs to the employer unless proven otherwise. You can carry a box or two of personal material out of the door. Someone is going to look through it. The rest you can put a request in and professional archivists will later determine if you may have it or not.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Chopper

[Js1 85764]

25 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

God knows what Mike November and his ambassador ex-wife have stashed away from his days at COS days in Caracas

[BabaYaga 15379]

3 minutes ago, Chopper said:

If you're talking about former presidents and vice pres, obviously there were very different motivations at play. Or in some instances, not even motivation, just overlooking and non-personal involvement, nor presumably involvement by anyone whose main job is oversight of classified info. Other than the current investigation involving the florida man where he knowingly stole and then denied having documents at the highest levels of classification , the 2 problematic instances of disclosure of top-secret info that come to mind are David Petraeus, passing along classified info to his biographer/side-piece, and, again, the obese man from FL who wanted attention on twitter and decided to tweet out a picture that disclosed key military satellite surveillance information to our enemies. Oh and the same dude passing along classified info to the russian ambassador.

Materials from government jobs need to be treated more like corporate materials - it belongs to the employer unless proven otherwise. You can carry a box or two of personal material out of the door. Someone is going to look through it. The rest you can put a request in and professional archivists will later determine if you may have it or not.

I cannot believe anyone in a position of power at the highest levels of government "overlook" anything as it relates to classified and SAP documents.  Why you have them is part of the problem, but the initial punitive steps needs to factor along the act of having them in the first place.  

[DDD Dad 14375]

12 hours ago, Porterhouse said:

Exactly. There is not a more self-important weirdo on this site. I wouldn’t attend anything he recommends if I had AIDS and he had the cure. 

 

7 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Only thing more reliable on this site than the ignore feature is porterhouse following me from thread to thread to indicate how he has me on ignore.  Truly remarkable.

Anyway, conference resumes this morning at 8:30a if anybody is interested.  Officials from State Dept., Prof. Suri, Clements Center leadership, Undersecretary for Intel., directors of multiple presidential libraries, CiA & FBI former leadership all in attendance.  

And predictably, porterhouse will chime in about how he never chimes in on any thread with which I'm involved.  It's kinda cute, it's so US.......

 

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

Some of y’all are spot on.   Todays theme is the over-classification of materials.  In large part, inspired by of all things our relationship with Kai-Shek after WWII.  Interesting stuff.

Will await porterhouse to post about how he does not post about posts about no posting he doesn’t post about.  

[YGIFS 19453]

Catfights are supposed to be hot, I thought?  At least he’s not a pussy like Rex Kramer though who posted my real name and wife’s name on TOS.  
 

I really had no idea though about the over-classification mechanisms in place going back to the civil war and then it Ramps up after WWI and then China in the 1950s.  Crazy shit.  Our national paranoia goes way back. 

[Chopper 17355]

47 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I cannot believe anyone in a position of power at the highest levels of government "overlook" anything as it relates to classified and SAP documents.  Why you have them is part of the problem, but the initial punitive steps needs to factor along the act of having them in the first place.  

Do you believe a Vice President Mike Pence or Joe Biden packed their own office or maintained their own files? Which is why I also wrote, "non-personal involvement." Each of the above-named VPs had people on staff, including some with top secret clearance, whose job it was to maintain files.

Another issue is you're not distinguishing between levels of classification. For example, at the highest levels an aide, perhaps with CIA or DOD, will say, President or Vice President, may I have that document back? AFAIK only one elected official ever declined the opportunity to return said document.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Chopper
clarity

[BabaYaga 15379]

2 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Do you believe a Vice President Mike Pence or Joe Biden packed their own office or maintained their own files? Which is why I also wrote, "non-personal involvement." Each of the above-named VPs had people on staff, including some with top secret clearance, whose job it was to maintain files.

That's the same diffusion of responsibility weak-sauce CEO's at corporations can no longer hide behind.  You want the chair.  You own your responsibilities to the chair.  

[Chopper 17355]

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

That's the same diffusion of responsibility weak-sauce CEO's at corporations can no longer hide behind.  You want the chair.  You own your responsibilities to the chair.  

LOL. The reform I mentioned is a presumption that all docs in the offices of elected officials belong to the government and not the elected official. If you think the country should put a former pres or VP in jail because they unwittingly possessed a document of some level of classification, no matter how innocuous, and their staff immediately returned it upon its discovery, you're not being serious, you're being emotional.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Chopper

['stache 21910]

It seems likely to me that most, if not all, of this stuff (trump excluded), would be low level classified, otherwise you'd think there would be strict controls on where they are and getting them back. We have controls over sensitive attorney-client materials so that we have a record if anything leaks. Trump would be different for a bunch of reasons, the first and most obvious being his refusal to just work with the government to get them back. I also strongly believe that his was intentional and are of a much higher grade of classified. An investigation will sort it out. I think the others are probably not too serious, but should be investigated of course to find out.

[twosheds 374]

This is why we can't have nice things 

Michelob Ultra and frozen fajitas are not nice things

[YGIFS 19453]

Well, what about frozen Michelobs and ultra fajitas?  

Was a really interesting conference, FWIW.  As some had posted here, the over-classification of materials and the mechanisms by which it is done, and then onto chain of custody...was fucking mind-bottling as a logistics guy by trade.  Anyway, big names and big ideas on our campus today.  Back to the grind...

[TwiceHorn 31686]

8 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Why on earth would you take classified docs if they were not personally beneficial or implicated you of something?  Having the docs is one thing, but what's on them that was so important that they were taken in secret?  This isn't a case of "taking your work home with you" bullshit.

I think the reality is that many of them just get piled up with other briefing papers and stuffed in a file folder or file box that is immediately  forgotten.

The main flaw in the system is apparently all the Lt. Colonels that bring em to the White House don't get em back like they should.

And, i think Chopper is right, the PRA needs to be beefed up so that EVERYTHING in the White House is presumptively a Presidential Record and NARA should immediately take possession of it, shortly after it is used and in any event before leaving office.  The outgoing President can then request return of personal materials upon a showing that it is, in fact, personal.

Edited January 27, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Wally Fairway 5600]

[BabaYaga 15379]

16 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think the reality is that many of them just get piled up with other briefing papers and stuffed in a file folder or file box that is immediately  forgotten.

The main flaw in the system is apparently all the Lt. Colonels that bring em to the White House don't get em back like they should.

And, i think Chopper is right, the PRA needs to be beefed up so that EVERYTHING in the White House is presumptively a Presidential Record and NARA should immediately take possession of it, shortly after it is used and in any event before leaving office.  The outgoing President can then request return of personal materials upon a showing that it is, in fact, personal.

I don’t buy that documentation such as what has been found has been treated carelessly as junk mail.   Nor does it absolve anyone in possession.   They are classified for a reason.    So you either enforce the laws as they are today or change them.   To not enforce them and lament on them just engenders more sloppy behavior for officials that know they are immune from laws that would send the layman away for years if not decades and ruin their lives.   

[FartingMonk 3608]

5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

I don’t buy that documentation such as what has been found has been treated carelessly as junk mail.   Nor does it absolve anyone in possession.   They are classified for a reason.    So you either enforce the laws as they are today or change them.   To not enforce them and lament on them just engenders more sloppy behavior for officials that know they are immune from laws that would send the layman away for years if not decades and ruin their lives.   

Dude.  We lost two TS-SCI documents when I was on the USS Michigan.  Radio had shredded it but never logged it.  We searched the entire fucking boat.  We had people dumpster diving for that shit on the pier.  If you've ever handled any type of classified material above TS.  You don't just walk out with it.  The handlers were scared to piss off their civilian overlords is what is was.

[Leeroy Jenkins 2430]

We used to have to check out TS crypto and take that shit to wired places we were flying.  Crypto in a metal case with two locks with two different people only knowing the combo for one each.  It was really stressful when we were at a place where we had to destroy our used crypto.  Literally burning paper in coffee cans.  I had to chase down a partly burning piece of flying crypto one time.  I felt like I was watching my clearance fly away.  
 

The only one good thing about the case was that customs couldn’t look in it.  😆

[YGIFS 19453]

On 1/26/2023 at 10:13 PM, Porterhouse said:

Not full-blown but reading Guest Lobo posts will give you Magic Johnson HIV

Anyway, conference is over with now.  We can delete the thread.  My favorite part of all of it though was you PM'ing me as Rex Kramer saying "I got your real name from another poster."  It was the most "totally met my girlfriend from Canada on Spring Break at Niagara Falls" moment...even for you.  Seriously, you are absolutely fucking precious.  I mean, you have to remember that you and have literally exchanged contact info on an oil deal a few years back.  

All that to say...the full video presentation will be here within a few days:

https://intelligencestudies.utexas.edu/

[Homercles 10206]

1 hour ago, FartingMonk said:

Dude.  We lost two TS-SCI documents when I was on the USS Michigan.  Radio had shredded it but never logged it.  We searched the entire fucking boat.  We had people dumpster diving for that shit on the pier.  If you've ever handled any type of classified material above TS.  You don't just walk out with it.  The handlers were scared to piss off their civilian overlords is what is was.

[YGIFS 19453]

On 1/26/2023 at 10:13 PM, Porterhouse said:

Not full-blown but reading Guest Lobo posts will give you Magic Johnson HIV

Hey, cuntface...just making sure you're okay.  Go ahead and post my real name again and then remember that nobody ever, at any time does that same amateur shit except you.  You are literally the most immature, fuckhead on the site.  The only person that repeatedly posts people's real name.  What is that like, by the way?  To be the only truly, soft shithead on the whole of this site?  To be literally the lone, singular piece of fucking weak ass pussy shit on the shitstain of humanity?  We've had one another's real life contact info for almost a decade and it would never, ever even occur to me to post your name...and I think this makes three times you've done it with my info.  And wait for it...here goes.  This is the part where you predictably tell us you have no idea who I am, would never post my name, and never knew Rex Kramer/Dr. Beeper...even though you literally just got your shit deleted yesterday under the super fun excuse of "another poster sent me your name."  You are delightful.  You're a fucking pussy in real life and you fucking know it.  Every one of our mutual friends thinks you're an overblown cunt and we all fucking laugh at how fucking sad a Sig Ep you were.  Post my name again, I fucking encourage you.  Everybody in you sorrority house laughs at your pathetic ass.

Edited January 29, 2023 by YGIFS

[DDD Dad 14375]

5 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Go ahead and post my real name again and then remember that nobody ever, at any time does that same amateur shit except you….Post my name again.

Frank Stallone?

[Guest]

18 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Anyway, conference is over with now.  We can delete the thread.  My favorite part of all of it though was you PM'ing me as Rex Kramer saying "I got your real name from another poster."  It was the most "totally met my girlfriend from Canada on Spring Break at Niagara Falls" moment...even for you.  Seriously, you are absolutely fucking precious.  I mean, you have to remember that you and have literally exchanged contact info on an oil deal a few years back.  

All that to say...the full video presentation will be here within a few days:

https://intelligencestudies.utexas.edu/

Why have you started 4 separate PMs with me and removed yourself from each conversation, only to start another one. I did get your name from another poster.  Another person that doesn’t like you. I’ve never communicated with you in real life and wouldn’t. I’ve certainly never sent you a slide deck of an oil deal. I’m not divorced and wasn’t a SigEp. Sounds like you’re making threats to release my identity. Well, just do it tough guy. 

[YGIFS 19453]

I guess I'll regret asking this...but why did you ask that poster for my name in the first place?  And how did you know he'd know it?  Or did he just outta the blue offer to send it to you?  Seems like a weird backstory.

[Homercles 10206]

[Guest]

1 hour ago, YGIFS said:

I guess I'll regret asking this...but why did you ask that poster for my name in the first place?  And how did you know he'd know it?  Or did he just outta the blue offer to send it to you?  Seems like a weird backstory.

The poster and I are friends. You did something to piss the poster off. There is nothing weird about the backstory. I didn’t know who you were at the time (The Cruiser) and this poster offered it up. 

[FartingMonk 3608]

This thread has more drama than Melrose Place

[Twizzler 176]

54 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

This thread has more drama than Melrose Place

Psa.

Dont bother looking up Heather Locklear now.

[YGIFS 19453]

Yeah, we can move it to CR or delete it. or leave it as a reminder that twice a year when you change smoke detector batteries, also check to see if you have any classified documents laying around the house since chain of custody is apparently only a thing prior to 2009.  

and holy shit, you weren't kidding about Heather Locklear.  Yikes.  

[HornOnTheBayou 8967]

3 hours ago, Twizzler said:

Psa.

Dont bother looking up Heather Locklear now.

Goddammit. You knew we were going to google that, so why did you say anything?!?