2023 Texas High School Football

[Helobious 9467]

1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

 

The novelty/aura of playing at Jerryworld is gone. It needs to go back to multiple sites. 

[Lonestar88 4701]

Almost all of the games stunk.

Championship week can build momentum if the games are good, you’re more likely to bring in more people who come on a whim. But the games were terrible.

Attendance was better last year and it was mostly the same teams as this year. That tells you it was about the quality of the games.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Lonestar88

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

27 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

To me it was the small schools having not as many fans. And if you look at the small school teams it makes sense. 

The smaller schools 4A and below with a few exceptions never pack them and part of that is because they start playing their games on Wednesday.   It’s tough for some of those fans to get time off to make that long drive if you are from West Texas or south of Austin.    It’s an expense too.   When I went back in 2016, it was easily a $500 trip for four.  It’s probably $800 now when you throw in hotel, fuel, meals, tickets, parking.   It adds up!

Edited December 17, 2023 by Nueces River Rat

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

15 minutes ago, Helobious said:

The novelty/aura of playing at Jerryworld is gone. It needs to go back to multiple sites. 

They should spit it into two weekends if the aim is to keep a TV package going.    Along with that rotate it to different sites.   Have six man through 3A at one site and 4A through 6A at another.  Get rid of the Wednesday and Thursday nonsense too. 

[Surly Bevo 25176]

All this bitching about Jerryworld, but isn't it the THSCA that could put a stop to that right quick....if they really wanted to flex that muscle.  

[DaysOff 7976]

State championships should be played in Austin, weather be damned.

[BurntOrange&White 40044]

9 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

The smaller schools 4A and below with a few exceptions never pack them and part of that is because they start playing their games on Wednesday.   It’s tough for some of those fans to get time off to make that long drive if you are from West Texas or south of Austin.    It’s an expense too.   When I went back in 2016, it was easily a $500 trip for four.  It’s probably $800 now when you throw in hotel, fuel, meals, tickets, parking.   It adds up!

I’ve seen far larger crowds in the smaller school ranks there than I have this year. The fan bases of the smaller schools in the games this year just aren’t very large 

[Dennis Taylor 18876]

16 hours ago, Helobious said:

Counterpoint: NS offense sucks hard

NS vs 956 all star team...who you got??

[tx 3 putt 77533]

[tx 3 putt 77533]

Northshore play calling was horrible. It was middle school level 

[Vic Mackey 47163]

1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

It looked like it too.  PNG travels well and it helped them even more having their game on Saturday helped push their numbers higher.   
 

The fans that get the shaft are the lower classifications which many of the schools in those classes that make it don’t sit within a couple of hours from Jerryworld.   Those fan bases in some cases don’t have the resources to pay for $30 parking on top of all the other costs to get there if they can get there.   Small town folks just can’t take off work on a whim too on short notice   
 

This whole concept needs to be reevaluated.   UIL is supposed to provide as neutral as possible venues for their championships and not fleece the very taxpayers who fund the organization.  

 

 

 

 

The lower classification games should be at their own site, a much smaller venue, on the weekends. To play a state championship game at 11am on a Wednesday and Thursday is silly. 

[Helobious 9467]

4 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

NS vs 956 all star team...who you got??

You’re talking the best 22 out of probably well over 500 players to pick from, I think it’d be close. We’d be lining up guys with at least FCS offers all across the o-line and at QB. And maybe one at LB, I think one at receiver.. I don’t know actually. Duncanville or Desoto we’d be fucked hardcore. I have no idea how NS went undefeated or beat Westlake. They looked like nothing special anywhere. 

[PTINS 3485]

11 hours ago, Scholz said:

Dude Desoto are some assholes. Still throwing deep and multiple jailbreak punt blocks when up 50+. And a lateral to score. Guess they’re trying to break the records. 

9 hours ago, Helobious said:

That entire portion of Texas can go fuck itself

SEC! SEC! SEC! ... oops!

That's what I think about when I see HS football in Texas. Pay for play teams, and "towns" with a single HS team that recruits players and keeps 100% of the tax revenue for one school and one team. 

Texas HS football used to be about stars from normal teams who built a following for leading their teams into the playoffs, Joe Washington & Earl & Billy Simms & Todd Dodge & Donnie Little & VY and ...

 If Katy & Cypress & Sugar Land & Alief & Pearland only had one select high school instead of 10 schools sharing players and resources within the same district, perhaps Texas HS football would look more representative. 

De Soto and Duncanville looked good yesterday.  But let's not pretend they are playing by the same set of rules as everybody else. 

4 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Bottom half is really good at? Soccer?

Not being assholes, for starters. 

Football, team football. I'll take a Jordan Whittington from Quero, or Johnathan Brooks from Halletsville, or VY from Houston-Madison, all day, every day, over most of those entitled "assholes" from the "private" high schools prevalent up north.  These guys from regular high schools don't have to get that "me first ... look at me ... I'm a prick" attitude coached out of them before they learn how to contribute to a greater good.

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

State championships should be played in Austin, weather be damned.

and fuck that notion right in the ass too.

If it stays in one place, JerryWorld is the right place.  If it moves around, I'd support neutral site, like it used to be.

Not a fan of the Wednesday/ Thursday games, because it affects the latter rounds of the POs as well, as teams adjust their schedules ahead of time. I get the trade off of getting to play at Jerry World, but it's still dumb.

Edited December 17, 2023 by slorch

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, PTINS said:

SEC! SEC! SEC! ... oops!

That's what I think about when I see HS football in Texas. Pay for play teams, and "towns" with a single HS team that recruits players and keeps 100% of the tax revenue for one school and one team. 

Texas HS football used to be about stars from normal teams who built a following for leading their teams into the playoffs, Joe Washington & Earl & Billy Simms & Todd Dodge & Donnie Little & VY and ...

 If Katy & Cypress & Sugar Land & Alief & Pearland only had one select high school instead of 10 schools sharing players and resources within the same district, perhaps Texas HS football would look more representative. 

De Soto and Duncanville looked good yesterday.  But let's not pretend they are playing by the same set of rules as everybody else. 

Not being assholes, for starters. 

Football, team football. I'll take a Jordan Whittington from Quero, or Johnathan Brooks from Halletsville, or VY from Houston-Madison, all day, every day, over most of those entitled "assholes" from the "private" high schools prevalent up north.  These guys from regular high schools don't have to get that "me first ... look at me ... I'm a prick" attitude coached out of them before they learn how to contribute to a greater good.

Cuero, maybe?

 

[Dennis Taylor 18876]

12 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Sealy / Eric Dickerson

That was 20 or so years after him

[tx 3 putt 77533]

2 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

That was 20 or so years after him

doh !

• Football^[4]
  • 1978(2A), 1994(3A), 1995(3A), 1996(3A), 1997(3A)

[WBT 20672]

f tj mills 

[Dennis Taylor 18876]

25 minutes ago, WBT said:

f tj mills 

 

[Lonestar88 4701]

1 hour ago, PTINS said:

If Katy & Cypress & Sugar Land & Alief & Pearland only had one select high school instead of 10 schools sharing players and resources within the same district, perhaps Texas HS football would look more representative. 

De Soto and Duncanville looked good yesterday.  But let's not pretend they are playing by the same set of rules as everybody else. 

DeSoto doesn’t even have 6A numbers anymore, so I don’t know what you want them to do. Building another high school there makes no sense.

And until very recently, Katy High just funneled all the best players in the area to themselves anyways.

[Beau Vine 54465]

2 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

All this bitching about Jerryworld, but isn't it the THSCA that could put a stop to that right quick....if they really wanted to flex that muscle.  

THSCA overwhelmingly wants all games at Jerryworld.  

[Beau Vine 54465]

2 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

The smaller schools 4A and below with a few exceptions never pack them and part of that is because they start playing their games on Wednesday.   It’s tough for some of those fans to get time off to make that long drive if you are from West Texas or south of Austin.    It’s an expense too.   When I went back in 2016, it was easily a $500 trip for four.  It’s probably $800 now when you throw in hotel, fuel, meals, tickets, parking.   It adds up!

You get a lot more people going to Jerryworld for a 3A game on Thursday than you would heading a couple of hundred miles for a neutral site championship on a Saturday.  People who wouldn't ordinarily drive out of town to watch football will go to Jerryworld.  I've lived in Wimberley for both situations, and it was 2-3X more people going to Jerryworld in 2011 on a Friday afternoon than going to Waco in 2005 for a Saturday night state championship game.  

[Dennis Taylor 18876]

32 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

DeSoto doesn’t even have 6A numbers anymore, so I don’t know what you want them to do. Building another high school there makes no sense.

And until very recently, Katy High just funneled all the best players in the area to themselves anyways.

Two words- open enrollment.  DeSoto- Cedar Hill-Duncanville-SOC were transfer portalling before it was cool.  Samples only took the Duncanville job because they adopted that policy. 4500 kids in an open enrollment school is not a normal 4500 student population. Same can be said for a lower enrollment school, it'll skew athletically.  

Edited December 17, 2023 by Dennis Taylor

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

THSCA overwhelmingly wants all games at Jerryworld.  

THSCA would all vote themselves a $50k  raise too which some would argue would be just right for some HC/AD’s, but that doesn’t mean its feasible.   I’d guess most of the THSCA voting bloc that would favor it at Jerryworld until it crumbles are all within a two to three hour drive and add that to some  some struck coaches who only dream about it from the 956 and other areas, that’s where you get your overwhelming support.   
 

Put it to you this way.  If the Alamodome was something special and the games were played there multiple years, the North Texas coaches and their boses in the Superintendents would’ve had this on a rotational schedule already.  The UIL listens to them more than they do us poor hicks south of San Antonio and that is a fact.  Go look at the different committees on both the athletic and non athletic sides and the further south you go, the less representation is found.  
 

I’d like to see them move baseball down here for a tourney  or two and you’d see how quick the DFW metro coaches would scream.  

Edited December 17, 2023 by Nueces River Rat

[Rockethorn1978 6108]

2 hours ago, PTINS said:

Not being assholes, for starters. 

Football, team football. I'll take a Jordan Whittington from Quero, or Johnathan Brooks from Halletsville, or VY from Houston-Madison, all day, every day, over most of those entitled "assholes" from the "private" high schools prevalent up north.  These guys from regular high schools don't have to get that "me first ... look at me ... I'm a prick" attitude coached out of them before they learn how to contribute to a greater good.

[Lonestar88 4701]

28 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

Two words- open enrollment.  DeSoto- Cedar Hill-Duncanville-SOC were transfer portalling before it was cool.  Samples only took the Duncanville job because they adopted that policy. 4500 kids in an open enrollment school is not a normal 4500 student population. Same can be said for a lower enrollment school, it'll skew athletically.  

I view recruiting in high school like the steroid era in baseball. It’s widely believed Barry Bonds didn’t start juicing until he saw what Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa were doing with no repercussions.

Same thing happened in high school sports. In the DFW specifically, Big (and usually richer schools) like Allen and Southlake and Aledo, were openly recruiting (open enrollment or not) with little to no repercussions and everyone else saw it and said “well, me too”. 

We’re at the point now where I don’t think there is a power program in 5A or 6A that isn’t recruiting. 

I don’t like it either, but the idea that this is only happening in one place or area is nonsense. People have a blind spot for the schools they root for and always think it’s those “other schools”. It’s everyone that matters.

[BurntOrange&White 40044]

FWIW Jerry actually charges very little compared to other venues in the state. Which means more for the schools and that is best case scenario IMO.

[BurntOrange&White 40044]

59 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

You get a lot more people going to Jerryworld for a 3A game on Thursday than you would heading a couple of hundred miles for a neutral site championship on a Saturday.  People who wouldn't ordinarily drive out of town to watch football will go to Jerryworld.  I've lived in Wimberley for both situations, and it was 2-3X more people going to Jerryworld in 2011 on a Friday afternoon than going to Waco in 2005 for a Saturday night state championship game.  

Yeah I remember the old neutral site state games that would have little turn out and being in 40 degree weather for a state game is not ideal for either team.

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

FWIW Jerry actually charges very little compared to other venues in the state. Which means more for the schools and that is best case scenario IMO.

 

Jerry isn’t losing any money on this thing.   
 

The big elephant in the room is the TV package and with Bally Sports gone bankrupt and divesting itself of its deals in has with the pro teams in their respective markets, it will be interesting to see how long this last anyway.   

[BurntOrange&White 40044]

3 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

 

Jerry isn’t losing any money on this thing.   
 

The big elephant in the room is the TV package and with Bally Sports gone bankrupt and divesting itself of its deals in has with the pro teams in their respective markets, it will be interesting to see how long this last anyway.   

Ofc Jerry isn't but NRG is SUPER expensive. As much as you want to hate Jerry he's giving UIL the best deal they could get because Jerry does actually want the games there.

[Lonestar88 4701]

1 minute ago, Nueces River Rat said:

 

Jerry isn’t losing any money on this thing.   
 

The big elephant in the room is the TV package and with Bally Sports gone bankrupt and divesting itself of its deals in has with the pro teams in their respective markets, it will be interesting to see how long this last anyway.   

Reportedly, he only breaks even from it. The last time I saw the numbers reported, NRG stadium was charging triple the amount Jerryworld did.

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Ofc Jerry isn't but NRG is SUPER expensive. As much as you want to hate Jerry he's giving UIL the best deal they could get because Jerry does actually want the games there.

I don’t think the UIL ever makes a serious effort to reach out and sit the table for others.   I can be certain if they sat down with NRG and The Alamodome folks and said we’d like to rotate this event and every three years you will get it for the next 10 or 20 seasons, it could be done.   I just see the UIL as not a serious player at the table because the same excuses about attendance being low at NRG is used and the lack of Lockroom space at the Alamodome. The Alamodome thing can be fixed easily if the UIL just showed some serious intent. 
 

   None of these facilities and the UIL will make a huge bank of ticket sales after expenses.  It’s all coming from key sponsor and TV revenue.  

[Dennis Taylor 18876]

10 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

I view recruiting in high school like the steroid era in baseball. It’s widely believed Barry Bonds didn’t start juicing until he saw what Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa were doing with no repercussions.

Same thing happened in high school sports. In the DFW specifically, Big (and usually richer schools) like Allen and Southlake and Aledo, were openly recruiting (open enrollment or not) with little to no repercussions and everyone else saw it and said “well, me too”. 

We’re at the point now where I don’t think there is a power program in 5A or 6A that isn’t recruiting. 

I don’t like it either, but the idea that this is only happening in one place or area is nonsense. People have a blind spot for the schools they root for and always think it’s those “other schools”. It’s everyone that matters.

Never said it was in one area did I sport...

Hell it goes back as far as the MOJO/ Midland Lee, Judson and Sealy dynasties and probably farther back than that. It's more difficult in multi- school districts but can happen there too. 

[Beau Vine 54465]

A few years back, Jerry was charging $150K.   A guy who worked there that I talked to told me $150K was literally cost, so it's probably more now.

The next year (2015), NRG charged $495K.  

Edit: Looks like Jerry charged $500K last year.  

Edited December 17, 2023 by Beau Vine

[Dennis Taylor 18876]

3 hours ago, Helobious said:

The novelty/aura of playing at Jerryworld is gone. It needs to go back to multiple sites. 

Oh really? You've played there how many times exactly? 

[Beau Vine 54465]

6 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I don’t think the UIL ever makes a serious effort to reach out and sit the table for others.   I can be certain if they sat down with NRG and The Alamodome folks and said we’d like to rotate this event and every three years you will get it for the next 10 or 20 seasons, it could be done.   I just see the UIL as not a serious player at the table because the same excuses about attendance being low at NRG is used and the lack of Lockroom space at the Alamodome. The Alamodome thing can be fixed easily if the UIL just showed some serious intent. 
 

   None of these facilities and the UIL will make a huge bank of ticket sales after expenses.  It’s all coming from key sponsor and TV revenue.  

You're just making up stuff.  

[Lonestar88 4701]

15 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

Never said it was in one area did I sport...

Hell it goes back as far as the MOJO/ Midland Lee, Judson and Sealy dynasties and probably farther back than that. It's more difficult in multi- school districts but can happen there too. 

Didn’t mean to assume you did, my point was just that by the time you get deep into the playoffs, it’s a bunch of teams doing the same thing.  

I’ve mostly stopped complaining about recruiting outside of a joke here and there, because everyone is doing it. It’s as pointless as complaining about NIL in college.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Lonestar88

[Beau Vine 54465]

If you think the UIL does a poor job of policing recruiting, you should go check it out in literally any other state.

[Lonestar88 4701]

3 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

If you think the UIL does a poor job of policing recruiting, you should go check it out in literally any other state.

No doubt. Most other states stopped trying a long time ago.

And despite what some think, there is still very much a sense of community at these big programs in Texas. They recruit here and there, but they’re not recruiting entire teams. Except for maybe Allen.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Lonestar88

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

You get a lot more people going to Jerryworld for a 3A game on Thursday than you would heading a couple of hundred miles for a neutral site championship on a Saturday.  People who wouldn't ordinarily drive out of town to watch football will go to Jerryworld.  I've lived in Wimberley for both situations, and it was 2-3X more people going to Jerryworld in 2011 on a Friday afternoon than going to Waco in 2005 for a Saturday night state championship game.  

IDGAF about attendance numbers.

It's dumb playing on Wednesdays and Thursdays for the playoffs, all because of Jerryworld.

You and I have had this discussion before and you are absolutely right that the coaches favor it.  I'm strictly discussing it from a fan's perspective, particularly from the POV of a parent or fan of that respective school.  Random people from DFW watching the game doesn't resonate with me as a valid fucking reason for having it there.  I've been to 3 state games-  Waco, Pennington Field, and Mansfield.  Nobody is sitting there wishing the locals could add to the flavor of the game.  LO_fucking-L.

If that's the case then have them all at Kyle Field for the best fans in the history of football.

Edited December 17, 2023 by slorch

[PTINS 3485]

37 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

I view recruiting in high school like the steroid era in baseball. It’s widely believed Barry Bonds didn’t start juicing until he saw what Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa were doing with no repercussions.

Same thing happened in high school sports. In the DFW specifically, Big (and usually richer schools) like Allen and Southlake and Aledo, were openly recruiting (open enrollment or not) with little to no repercussions and everyone else saw it and said “well, me too”. 

We’re at the point now where I don’t think there is a power program in 5A or 6A that isn’t recruiting. 

I don’t like it either, but the idea that this is only happening in one place or area is nonsense. People have a blind spot for the schools they root for and always think it’s those “other schools”. It’s everyone that matters.

Barry Bonds was a great baseball player, before steroids.  Clearly, he benefited from the juice, but probably would have put up Hall of Fame without it.

We’re at the point now where I don’t think there is a power program in 5A or 6A that isn’t recruiting. 

Define your terms. Power Program being a State Finalist team?  I think there are a lot of large high schools committed to quality HS sports (power programs?) that will probably not advance deep into the football playoffs because they can not and do not do some of the things the single HS and open enrollment school districts do openly.  They may still do some questionable things, but open recruiting isn't one of them.

19 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

It's more difficult in multi- school districts but can happen there too. 

My info is dated, ~ 15 years ago. Katy ISD now has 10 HS, each between 3-4,000 students. The demographic differences across the district are huge, but they all share in revenue & expenses somewhat equally (No CR, but very democratic for a deep red area). They each have their own athletic booster clubs, which are "unregulated", and most certainly not equal. The primary benefits Katy HS gets, are gerrymandering attendance zones to include apartments, and school populations (Div 1 v. Div 2). Nothing that compares to what some other school districts do.  

[SameSame 1705]

Good God fucking cry more you goddamn babies

[Surly Bevo 25176]

1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

 to see them move baseball down here for a tourney  or two and you’d see how quick the DFW metro coaches would scream.  

State baseball tournament is at Disch or Round Rock....soooooo.  I mean you can bitch but the population center of Texas isn't south of that, so it isn't happening.  

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

You're just making up stuff.  

This is for everything under domain from football to robotics and in between.   I specifically said from this event.  

[BurntOrange&White 40044]

Just now, Nueces River Rat said:

This is for everything under domain from football to robotics and in between.   I specifically said from this event.  

It's significantly cheaper to host in Dallas than anywhere else. point blank. 

 

Why are you not getting this through your head?

[Mittens 8312]

 

[Beau Vine 54465]

4 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

This is for everything under domain from football to robotics and in between.   I specifically said from this event.  

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

14 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

State baseball tournament is at Disch or Round Rock....soooooo.  I mean you can bitch but the population center of Texas isn't south of that, so it isn't happening.  

I’ve been to it a few times and have zero problem with at in Austin/ Round Rock because it’s a true central location being the closest to Brady which is the true geographical center of Texas. .  My point is next to football, its a sport that has high interest and fan bases that will follow and if the north Texas powers had to play in San Antonio year in a year out or heaven forbid further south, they’d be asking why can’t they have it up there.  

Edited December 17, 2023 by Nueces River Rat

[cochamps 1879]

4 hours ago, PTINS said:

SEC! SEC! SEC! ... oops!

That's what I think about when I see HS football in Texas. Pay for play teams, and "towns" with a single HS team that recruits players and keeps 100% of the tax revenue for one school and one team. 

Texas HS football used to be about stars from normal teams who built a following for leading their teams into the playoffs, Joe Washington & Earl & Billy Simms & Todd Dodge & Donnie Little & VY and ...

 If Katy & Cypress & Sugar Land & Alief & Pearland only had one select high school instead of 10 schools sharing players and resources within the same district, perhaps Texas HS football would look more representative. 

De Soto and Duncanville looked good yesterday.  But let's not pretend they are playing by the same set of rules as everybody else. 

 

Duncanville ISD decided back in the 80's not to go to two high schools.  It is a bedroom community without much retail or industry.  The merchants were staunchly opposed to two high schools because it would mean two band bossters, two football boosters, etc. vying for donations.  It has had the effect of making a sports juggernaut, but that was an unintended consequence of an economic decision.

And if you are talking about transfers, please spare me that other schools don't do this on a regular basis.  I can cite examples, but I am hoping that this isn't your point.

[BurntOrange&White 40044]

4 minutes ago, cochamps said:

Duncanville ISD decided back in the 80's not to go to two high schools.  It is a bedroom community without much retail or industry.  The merchants were staunchly opposed to two high schools because it would mean two band bossters, two football boosters, etc. vying for donations.  It has had the effect of making a sports juggernaut, but that was an unintended consequence of an economic decision.

And if you are talking about transfers, please spare me that other schools don't do this on a regular basis.  I can cite examples, but I am hoping that this isn't your point.

Medina Valley ISD is about to build a new high school. They have enough space and people moving to their area that it's pretty dumb to even do. Just build one massive high school, invest in super nice football stadium, indoor practice facility and they could become a  power in SA. 40k homes are being built in that district area.