Texas Basketball Recruiting Notes: A Clean Shave

[Napoleon 8689]

28 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Although a baseball roster is bigger than a basketball roster- it's 13 scholarships for hoops and 11.7 for baseball. So, advantage basketball.

So you're saying that having several NIL deals in place is even more vital to the success of a baseball program than to a basketball program?

I agree.

[texifornia 57011]

https://www.on3.com/db/john-clark-236572/

[Teryor 4476]

https://247sports.com/player/aiden-sherrell-46125406/

Talk about no sunshine

[Js1 85422]

That dude is like 28

[MuellerHorn 4256]

19 hours ago, ztejas said:

I remember digging his house when they made that vid pre tourney.

Here is the link:

https://www.ncaa.com/video/basketball-men/2023-03-16/getting-know-texas-head-coach-rodney-terry

[Rickylovesweed 14492]

The '25 class is loaded. 

If there was ever a time to buy some 5 stars, at the top of that class, that's when it should be done. 

[Horny Bull 2760]

 

[HtownHorn 14726]

Damn, Terry is doing work.

[Teryor 4476]

Probably way too late to the party, dude is trending to be the #1 pick when he comes out 

[Rickylovesweed 14492]

I wouldn't be surprised if Flagg reclassifies. He's probably already the best player in the country. 

[ATXbronco 4084]

https://247sports.com/Player/Cooper-Flagg-46129443/

 

[texifornia 57011]

2 minutes ago, ATXbronco said:

https://247sports.com/Player/Cooper-Flagg-46129443/

 

I did not have "white dude from a town in Penobscot County, Maine that's famous for its drumstick factory"as the next big thing, but life loves to surprise you.

[Rickylovesweed 14492]

Cameron Boozer is a great player but he isn't better than Flagg. 

Either way, the top 3 players in the country are probably in the '25 and '26 classes (Flagg, Boozer, and Dybantsa). 

[Rickylovesweed 14492]

About what I expected. 

 

[RollingPresidential 633]

36 minutes ago, texifornia said:

I did not have "white dude from a town in Penobscot County, Maine that's famous for its drumstick factory"as the next big thing, but life loves to surprise you.

A Flagg from Maine. The Stephen King special

[ztejas 43479]

On 7/10/2023 at 10:05 AM, Horny Bull said:

 

[Rickylovesweed 14492]

The Kevin Durant comparisons are tired but Flagg reminds me a lot of Durant offensively. Now just imagine that with a guy that can also block 10 shots a game defensively. 

Flagg is a freak of nature. 

[CashMcCoy 3199]

Gerry says he’s paying more attention to Flagg possibly playing in college now that the thought is he will reclassify. NIL definitely a big factor, and I imagine we will need to match a bag bigger than what Holland wanted. Getting Liam McNeeley on board couldn’t hurt since they are friends and teammates.

[Fud 9552]

13 minutes ago, CashMcCoy said:

Gerry says he’s paying more attention to Flagg possibly playing in college now that the thought is he will reclassify. NIL definitely a big factor, and I imagine we will need to match a bag bigger than what Holland wanted. Getting Liam McNeeley on board couldn’t hurt since they are friends and teammates.

Not all #1 prospects are impactful college players in their single year since they're ranked with an eye towards NBA ceiling, but Flagg will likely be one of the best players in college ball. He's a two way guy too; he'll be an impactful defensive player

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

On 7/13/2023 at 12:59 PM, texifornia said:

I did not have "white dude from a town in Penobscot County, Maine that's famous for its drumstick factory"as the next big thing, but life loves to surprise you.

In my experience white athletes from predominantly white areas tend to perform disproportionately better than white athletes from more diverse areas. 

[Napoleon 8689]

37 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

In my experience white athletes from predominantly white areas tend to perform disproportionately better than white athletes from more diverse areas. 

Have any examples of the second subset mentioned?

[Catdaddyhorn 3446]

6 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I don’t know if it’s scientific, but anecdotally I would agree that when there is a white dude who can really play I assume he’s from like West Virginia, Kentucky, Indiana, Iowa, or the Great Plains states and not like Chicago or Houston something, even though there are way more white dudes in Chicago or Houston. When you’re from Whitey McWhiteville, North Dakota, where there are no black dudes, it stands to reason that the star player who gets developed is a white dude and no white kids will get discouraged from playing basketball because they think it’s a black guy’s sport.  

Conversely a disproportionate number of African Americans with PhDs went to HBCUs for undergrad even though the majority of black undergraduates go to predominantly white universities. 

[Lonestar88 4697]

1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

I don’t know if it’s scientific, but anecdotally I would agree that when there is a white dude who can really play I assume he’s from like West Virginia, Kentucky, Indiana, Iowa, or the Great Plains states and not like Chicago or Houston something, even though there are way more white dudes in Chicago or Houston. When you’re from Whitey McWhiteville, North Dakota, where there are no black dudes, it stands to reason that the star player who gets developed is a white dude and no white kids will get discouraged from playing basketball because they think it’s a black guy’s sport.  

 

I don’t know if your point is true, but I do know the sample size is probably too small to draw a solid conclusion. There aren’t very many top white American basketball prospects overall. And there have been none I can think of to the level of Cooper Flagg since Bird.

 

Off the top of my head though, Walker Kessler is from Atlanta and he was a 5-star coming out of high school and just finished top 3 in rookie of the year voting.

[FreeHorn 1307]

Flagg is going to Duke. His dad was telling everybody that Duke was the clear number one and his preference for his son at the Nike stop in Dallas. 

[ztejas 43479]

30 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

I don’t know if your point is true, but I do know the sample size is probably too small to draw a solid conclusion.

It is true and the sample size isn't too small. Why do you think two of the best 10 players in the league are white Euros?

32 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

And there have been none I can think of to the level of Cooper Flagg since Bird.

Well... Chet was pretty recent. And there have been others. Maybe not a ton of #1 recruit status guys but certainly high 4 or 5 stars.

[Fud 9552]

11 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 

Well... Chet was pretty recent. And there have been others. Maybe not a ton of #1 recruit status guys but certainly high 4 or 5 stars.

I mean, that’s his point. He’s probably the best white American prospect since bird 

[ztejas 43479]

3 minutes ago, Fud said:

I mean, that’s his point. He’s probably the best white American prospect since bird 

Chet was a 1.000 rated prospect. So at best he's tied for 1st. And I don't think @longhornmattwas exclusively referring to #1 prospects. I'm assuming he was referring to white guys that are very highly rated recruits or really good college players.

Go through every recruiting class and look at where the top white guys are from. A bunch of them come from white-ass America. Not Houston or Chicago or NYC.

[Lonestar88 4697]

40 minutes ago, ztejas said:

It is true and the sample size isn't too small. Why do you think two of the best 10 players in the league are white Euros?

You think the reason there are Central/Eastern Europeans thriving in the NBA is because the countries are really white? By that logic, we’d have more White American superstars too, because there’s still a shit ton of super white areas here. 

 

43 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Well... Chet was pretty recent. And there have been others. Maybe not a ton of #1 recruit status guys but certainly high 4 or 5 stars.

There are 20+ 5 stars every year and like 50+ high 4 stars, it’s actually not as special as it sounds. Flagg is on a different level.

And I’m not talking about ratings services anyways, I’m talking NBA hype. Flagg is already moving the needle in NBA circles in a way Chet never did.

 

Edit: Also, Chet is from Minneapolis, which goes against your theory anyway. Minneapolis is not some lily white city.

[Michael Knight 12988]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

It is true and the sample size isn't too small. Why do you think two of the best 10 players in the league are white Euros?

Because AAU has succeeding in stunting the development of American basketball players

[ztejas 43479]

13 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

You think the reason there are Central/Eastern Europeans thriving in the NBA is because the countries are really white? By that logic, we’d have more White American superstars too, because there’s still a shit ton of super white areas here. 

No. It's because those countries are poor and historically conflict stricken and have an unreal competitive culture when it comes to sports and in many instances that sport happens to be basketball. Kind of like black Americans growing up in poor, historically disenfranchised communities in the US. 

The discussion is about the types of white guys that typically break the mold and enjoy success at higher levels. Flagg is an example regardless of his recruiting ranking. 

28 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

Flagg is already moving the needle in NBA circles in a way Chet never did.

That definitely isn't true. Chet is a year removed from going 2nd in the draft. When is the last white American that went top 2?

[Napoleon 8689]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

No. It's because those countries are poor and historically conflict stricken and have an unreal competitive culture when it comes to sports and in many instances that sport happens to be basketball. Kind of like black Americans growing up in poor, historically disenfranchised communities in the US. 

The discussion is about the types of white guys that typically break the mold and enjoy success at higher levels. Flagg is an example regardless of his recruiting ranking. 

That definitely isn't true. Chet is a year removed from going 2nd in the draft. When is the last white American that went top 2?

Lonestar doesn’t understand your argument. 

Don’t know if it is a language issue or a reading comprehension issue, but you are right and he doesn’t make sense. 

[Ricky's one-hitter 9117]

Jfc what’re y’all doing in here

[texifornia 57011]

17 minutes ago, ztejas said:

No. It's because those countries are poor and historically conflict stricken and have an unreal competitive culture when it comes to sports and in many instances that sport happens to be basketball. Kind of like black Americans growing up in poor, historically disenfranchised communities in the US. 

The discussion is about the types of white guys that typically break the mold and enjoy success at higher levels. Flagg is an example regardless of his recruiting ranking. 

That definitely isn't true. Chet is a year removed from going 2nd in the draft. When is the last white American that went top 2?

Balkan dudes are also genetically big and tall. The best water polo players on earth (along with the Hungarians).

Edited July 15, 2023 by texifornia

[Lonestar88 4697]

15 minutes ago, ztejas said:

No. It's because those countries are poor and historically conflict stricken and have an unreal competitive culture when it comes to sports and in many instances that sport happens to be basketball. Kind of like black Americans growing up in poor, historically disenfranchised communities in the US. 

The discussion is about the types of white guys that typically break the mold and enjoy success at higher levels. Flagg is an example regardless of his recruiting ranking. 

Got you on the Europe thing. Still don’t know if I agree that white players in diverse areas fair worse (that’s the point I was originally replying to). Chet is from a diverse area.
 

16 minutes ago, ztejas said:

That definitely isn't true. Chet is a year removed from going 2nd in the draft. When is the last white American that went top 2?

A player goes number 1 every year, they aren’t all Lebron James. Some drafts are better than others, some graduating classes are better than others. I don’t think simply comparing a rank or a draft slot is all that useful.
 

11 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

Lonestar doesn’t understand your argument. 

Don’t know if it is a language issue or a reading comprehension issue, but you are right and he doesn’t make sense. 

It’s just a discussion, no need to be a dipshit.

[ztejas 43479]

3 minutes ago, texifornia said:

Balkan dudes are also genetically big and tall. The best water polo players on earth (along with the Hungarians).

Oh for sure. They're genetically good athletes. Granted - Luka and Jokic aren't good athletes by NBA standards. 

[ztejas 43479]

1 minute ago, Lonestar88 said:

Got you on the Europe thing. Still don’t know if I agree that white players in diverse areas fair worse (that’s the point I was originally replying to). Chet is from a diverse area.
 

A player goes number 1 every year, they aren’t all Lebron James. Some drafts are better than others, some graduating classes are better than others. I don’t think simply comparing a rank or a draft slot is all that useful.
 

It’s just a discussion, no need to be a dipshit.

Yeah - I'm not even sure I'm totally right. I'm trying not to be a dick myself. I just think there is weight to the idea presented in the original comment. 

Chet was crazy hyped. I was looking through some 247 stuff before making a couple of these comments and here was the first write up for Chet:

Quote

EVALUATED 01/05/2021
Brandon Jenkins
RECRUIITNG ANALYST
PROJECTION
Round 1
TOP 10
COMPARISON
Anthony Davis
LOS ANGELES LAKERS
Holmgren is as unique of a prospect as there has ever been in the national recruiting database era. Standing 7-feet tall with phenomenal length, Holmgren is a true game changer on the defensive end with his rim protection. He is the best shot-blocker in the country and definitely the best shot-blocker I have seen in high school basketball. He additionally is one of the most versatile players in the senior class and while he fills the stat sheet in multiple categories and is extremely productive, his upside is still immense. He impacts the game in so many areas and plays with a huge chip on his shoulder. Even though his defense is ahead of his offense, he has elite ball skills on the perimeter as he can handle and shoot the basketball like a combo guard. Holmgren has the potential to be a generational talent with his unreal long-term tools. Eight months in a college weight training program will serve him well. His upside is clearly in his body as he needs to add weight and get stronger.

 

[ztejas 43479]

If I can sneak some anecdotes (well, data points, basically) in, though... the two "blackest" white Americans in the NBA right now (when it comes to how they play the game) are in my mind Caruso and Herro. 

One of them made first team all defense last season (find the last white American that did that) and the other put up 20 ppg and was a borderline all-star.

The former is from College Station. The latter is from Greenfield, Wisconsin which is a shitty small town of 40k that's 90% white. 

Kevin Love. Lake Oswego, Oregon. Population 40k. 90% white, 0.7% black.

Edited July 15, 2023 by ztejas

[Lonestar88 4697]

15 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Yeah - I'm not even sure I'm totally right. I'm trying not to be a dick myself. I just think there is weight to the idea presented in the original comment. 

Honestly, I’m open to the possibility, I just need more info to buy into it. There’s a lot of factors at play.

 

15 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 Chet was crazy hyped. I was looking through some 247 stuff before making a couple of these comments and here was the first write up for Chet:

I could be underestimating the Chet hype, I just remember he wasn’t even the consensus #1 guy until relatively late in that recruiting cycle. (You can check the 247 composite rankings history) He got that perfect rating late too.
 

I also think his class wasn’t as good as the one Flagg is in, which is why I don’t see ranking or draft slot as the end all be all. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Lonestar88

[ztejas 43479]

2 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

I also think his class wasn’t as good as the one Flagg is in, which is why I don’t see ranking or draft slot as the end all be all. 

I obviously understand that. 

I also think that Flagg would be more hyped if Chet hadn't come just a couple years prior. So it's a tough comp.

[Michael Knight 12988]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

No. It's because those countries are poor and historically conflict stricken and have an unreal competitive culture when it comes to sports and in many instances that sport happens to be basketball. Kind of like black Americans growing up in poor, historically disenfranchised communities in the US. 

The discussion is about the types of white guys that typically break the mold and enjoy success at higher levels. Flagg is an example regardless of his recruiting ranking. 

That definitely isn't true. Chet is a year removed from going 2nd in the draft. When is the last white American that went top 2?

Does Ben Simmons count?

[Napoleon 8689]

19 hours ago, ztejas said:

…Go through every recruiting class and look at where the top white guys are from. A bunch of them come from white-ass America. Not Houston or Chicago or NYC.

Larry Bird (From the edge of French Lick, IN) never thought about basketball not being a sport for a white guy to excel at. But even by the 1970s, the sport had become seen as a sport predominantly played at the highest levels by black guys. 

That perception is the core  of this anecdote about Bird at an event honoring him. Magic Johnson is just dying laughing throughout.  

 

[texifornia 57011]

 

[Plorant 805]

I see the statement that AAU is stunting the growth of American basketball.  I don't really know much about AAU.  Would someone be able to explain the reason people feel this statement is true?  

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

10 minutes ago, Plorant said:

I see the statement that AAU is stunting the growth of American basketball.  I don't really know much about AAU.  Would someone be able to explain the reason people feel this statement is true?  

I think what I gather from videos I seen is basically AAU is essentially not teaching fundamentals and it's pretty much just a pickup game out there. While in other countries it's more fundamental based and etc.

 

I think you're seeing this at the NBA level with the international takeover of the game. International All-Star team would essentially shit on American All-Star team in the NBA. 

 

 

[Plorant 805]

17 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I think what I gather from videos I seen is basically AAU is essentially not teaching fundamentals and it's pretty much just a pickup game out there. While in other countries it's more fundamental based and etc.

 

I think you're seeing this at the NBA level with the international takeover of the game. International All-Star team would essentially shit on American All-Star team in the NBA. 

 

 

I see.  So it's a case of what they are not doing rather than they are doing something differently.  I can see that.  It does appear that international players care more to a certain extent about passing rather than volume scoring.  The ones being drafted early do seem to contribute more quickly than the American lottery players.  

[texifornia 57011]

https://www.on3.com/db/tre-johnson-145522/ - Link Academy looking like another very real and totally legit academic institution https://linkacademylions.com/

 

[deech 2291]

5 minutes ago, Plorant said:

I see.  So it's a case of what they are not doing rather than they are doing something differently.  I can see that.  It does appear that international players care more to a certain extent about passing rather than volume scoring.  The ones being drafted early do seem to contribute more quickly than the American lottery players.  

Club teams in Europe are set up like their soccer counterparts with Academies and youth teams.  They play limited games and spend the vast majority of their time until they are ready practicing skills/improving fundamentals.  They do things fundamentally differently everywhere else in the world.    

[Degenerate Gardner 4085]

8 minutes ago, texifornia said:

https://www.on3.com/db/tre-johnson-145522/ - Link Academy looking like another very real and totally legit academic institution https://linkacademylions.com/

 

It’s hard not to view potential 5 star signees with very tempered excitement given our experience this year. I’m starting to enjoy the relative finality of a transfer signee’s announcement as much or  more.

[ztejas 43479]

The AAU stuff is overblown. There are shitty AAU coaches and teams that play the wrong way and there are AAU teams that will run you off the court if you don't show up locked in. Almost every high school team worth a shit (in school play) is going to play disciplined on both sides of the ball and look for good shots. 

There are more and more international players and international superstars simply as a function of the game being more popular. The best international players aren't the best because they play the "right way". Around 75% of the league's players still come from a country sporting about 3% of the world's population. 

Jokic - passing savant. BBIQ on both ends off the charts. Huge frame and strong as shit and does everything on and off the court the right way. There is no "coaching" guys like that. And he was a late 2nd round pick and really honed his game in the states - not playing in Europe. Just won a title with a bunch of great American players around him.

Giannis - athletic freak that can't shoot for shit. Fairly fundamentally sound player but mainly relies on raw talent, feel for the game and athletic ability.

Luka - plays like a shitty AAU coach's wet dream. Minimal effort on D. Shows up out of shape every season. Slows the game down and runs iso plays and ball screens to death. Another guy that is just straight up ridiculously talented. Amazing player but not because he "plays the game the right way".

Embiid - total US product. Didn't start playing the game until 15 - was in the states by 16.

Then you have guys like Sabonis who is a classic Euro prototype player that got exposed in the playoffs by American defenders playing under an American coach. 

The Miami Heat team that just made the Finals as an 8 seed didn't have an ounce of Euro on it. All Americans being coached by an American. 

International players are getting more and more representation because more and more internationals are picking up a basketball at an early age, and on top of that they do coach and develop well and in a lot of instances play the right way. That doesn't mean that Americans aren't also being developed and coached in the right ways - and at the end of the day we still completely dominate the NBA landscape. The American share of the league will continue to decline as a basic function of world population.

We still won the last Olympics despite throwing together an awful roster last minute and asking the best American player to drag them to the medal. We can't keep relying on that - but the talent gap is still massive. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by ztejas

[ztejas 43479]

Think about this analogy - there are more and more Americans playing soccer at a high level overseas. Is that because we play the "right way"? No - it's because we have more and more kids playing soccer and our coaching and development has gotten better.