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Texas Basketball Recruiting Notes: A Clean Shave

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Js1
Js1

We are slowly moving into “Mark Adams/Rodney Terry was the real genius behind Beard” territory, just like Tech fans 2 years ago 

Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

I think we found Bitter White Guy's sock.

texifornia
texifornia

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Lonestar88

Lonestar88 4585

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Holland is the only gut punch that still hurts imo. I don’t think there’s any realistic scenario where Johnson would’ve ended up on campus, he opted out on the idea of school entirely, and fuck Morris and his camp.

But the Holland thing hurts, and some people are going to have a hard time getting over that, which I get.

We seem to be getting what we want from the portal though and that’s good. It’s going to take some getting used to, but the portal is the most important thing now.

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Lonestar88

Lonestar88 4585

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4 hours ago, RGBIII said:

I grade him pretty fucking bad bruh. Losing Holland is inexcusable. Johnson was never going to make it to campus. Portal was fine and the team should be good next year, its the following year that I am worried about

In the era of the portal, it feels like rosters are just going to be a year-to-year thing. We will be back in the portal again heavily next year.

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realgreggym

realgreggym 832

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10 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

In the era of the portal, it feels like rosters are just going to be a year-to-year thing. We will be back in the portal again heavily next year.

The portal and the NIL are the new norms and you will absolutely have to rerecruit some of the kids every year. It's not appropriate to say that losing Holland is inexcusable until we know why he left.

Many posters do not understand that there are numerous reasons why a kid commits to a school or decides to go elsewhere. Sometimes it could be the coach but if it's due to lack of playing time, that's on the young man. Sometimes you have to wait your turn.

 

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RGBIII

RGBIII 22798

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10 minutes ago, RollingPresidential said:

I just generally assume RGB knows more than we do given his involvement in NIL, so if he says something like that, it implies to me that RT fucked up somehow. 

money was/is there. Usage and promises is why Holland probably ends up at arky and makes us all vomit

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idigTexas

idigTexas 2266

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7 hours ago, RGBIII said:

I grade him pretty fucking bad bruh. Losing Holland is inexcusable. Johnson was never going to make it to campus. Portal was fine and the team should be good next year, its the following year that I am worried about

How does losing Holland impact the following year?  You were expecting him to stay for more than one year?  If anything, losing Holland potentially helps the following year, as it frees up a spot for someone who might be here longer than he was likely going to be. 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14485

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4 hours ago, RGBIII said:

money was/is there. Usage and promises is why Holland probably ends up at arky and makes us all vomit

Arkansas was a shitty team last year with Black running things. 8-10 in a really shitty SEC. They lucked into a tournament draw where Self was out. If Holland wants to run the show in Arkansas, I will laugh when Texas has the better sesaon.

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Teryor

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2 hours ago, txhorns said:

Sounds like Holland prefers to be the #1 option on an average team rather than the #3 option on a great team.  Why would anyone be mad at RT for not giving in to that demand?  

He's going to a school that has been to the Sweet 16 or better the last 3 years what are you talking about lmao

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horn4life

horn4life 3755

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I honestly do not know what Holland's deal is/was. If Terry got beat out for not outright lying to a kid about playing time then I can't fault Terry.  Holland didn't decommit until we started making a little headway in the portal.  The problem is you are ultimately dealing with kids.  Very talented kids, but still kids. And Kids are simply easily influenced.

I remember losing my best player on the select soccer team I coached.  I had recently repositioned her to an attacking mid to give her more touches, and a chance to greater influence play.  She viewed it as a demotion and was uncomfortable with the switch., The coaches from that lured her away promised her a return to her prior position on the left wing.  Of course funny thing was, they eventually learned what I already knew, and they ended up putting her in the same position I was trying to switch her into.  Because I was right all along, and they simply lied to her to hurt my team and help theirs.  I understood why they did what they did, but I was never ever going to be a coach who was going to lie to a kid to keep them in the fold. Nor put players in positions that were not best for my team.  In other words you cannot let the inmates run the prison.

So if a kid WANTS to believe the lies there is not much an honest coach can do.  Again not sure what Holland's needs, desires, promises were or were not.  I just do know that there are a LOT of coaches who want to win and honestly do not give much of a shit about the players.  Lying is just part of their process. 

What the portal does do interesting is allow a much greater movement among the same kids that have been lied to or simply do not like the way things have shaken out.  It's going to be harder and harder to hang onto the very talented kids who simply do not want to wait for playing time, that are unable to push the starter off the court.  I still think that players still want a sense of "family." But I also think that Basketball for a very long time has been the most fickle and most bottom line of all the sports.  Simply because of the potential of a high school kid to make bank.  LeBron James became the dream scenario model for every high school player who believes they have NBA level talent.  

It's gonna be interesting to see what happens. I hate like hell to loose Holland, but if the only way to get a kid is to lie to them?  I don't see Terry as that sort of coach.  And with the flexibility the portal gives kids, lying about playing time or anything else is simply a one year experiment doomed to another year of portal movement.

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RGBIII

RGBIII 22798

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15 hours ago, SarkAfterDark said:

If usage and promises were the issue I wonder why in the fuck are you blaming RT.

Because that’s recruiting and RT has this job partially based on that

15 hours ago, idigTexas said:

How does losing Holland impact the following year?  You were expecting him to stay for more than one year?  If anything, losing Holland potentially helps the following year, as it frees up a spot for someone who might be here longer than he was likely going to be. 

Losing Holland doesn’t impact that at all, of course I know he wasn’t staying more than a year. I’m talking about recruiting in general, only so much NIL can do getting kids out of the portal year over year 

11 hours ago, txhorns said:

Sounds like Holland prefers to be the #1 option on an average team rather than the #3 option on a great team.  Why would anyone be mad at RT for not giving in to that demand?  

1. It wasn’t being the #1 option, it was style of play and nba prospects

2. great team?

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idigTexas

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1 minute ago, RGBIII said:

Losing Holland doesn’t impact that at all, of course I know he wasn’t staying more than a year. I’m talking about recruiting in general, only so much NIL can do getting kids out of the portal year over year

That makes more sense.  I don't expect RT to assemble a team capable of reaching the Final Four year after year.  No coach does that. 

Success in the portal increases the chances of success on the court.  Success on the court (along with NIL) increases chances of success in the portal. 

RT has shown he can manage a good collection of experienced complimentary players.  So far, he appears to be capable of getting talent from the portal.  Time will tell whether he can continuously attract the right combination of players and get the most out of them. 

 

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RGBIII

RGBIII 22798

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2 minutes ago, idigTexas said:

That makes more sense.  I don't expect RT to assemble a team capable of reaching the Final Four year after year.  No coach does that. 

Success in the portal increases the chances of success on the court.  Success on the court (along with NIL) increases chances of success in the portal. 

RT has shown he can manage a good collection of experienced complimentary players.  So far, he appears to be capable of getting talent from the portal.  Time will tell whether he can continuously attract the right combination of players and get the most out of them. 

 

That’s the make or break of it and Holland is a big red flag. He’s done fine in the portal with NIL support but if he doesn’t win that support starts to dry up and then you have to win on merit alone and that’s a terrifying prospect. I get giving him the full time job and RT is a GREAT guy, met him multiple times and not in the “meet and greet” sense and he seems to be a genuinely good dude but he’s going to have to win this year and next

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ztejas

ztejas 43263

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21 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Holland wants to be showcased for the NBA. Terry said no.

What does that have to do with style of play? Texas didn't play in a way last season that would be inconducive to Holland showcasing himself for the NBA. We averaged like 80 ppg. If he wants more minutes then I get it but "style of play" isn't a legitimate reason for not playing for Texas. 

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 39647

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15 minutes ago, ztejas said:

What does that have to do with style of play? Texas didn't play in a way last season that would be inconducive to Holland showcasing himself for the NBA. We averaged like 80 ppg. If he wants more minutes then I get it but "style of play" isn't a legitimate reason for not playing for Texas. 

Holland wants the offense to run through him like say Lebron in the NBA. 

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UTEE97

UTEE97 3429

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My theory on Holland is that he helped RT get $3M a year and he thought he deserved a piece of that. It's like a broker fee for a successful transaction. Hits close to home, as I just signed with an investment bank who would collect a 6% fee for raising money for me. 😂

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Teryor

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1 hour ago, ztejas said:

What does that have to do with style of play? Texas didn't play in a way last season that would be inconducive to Holland showcasing himself for the NBA. We averaged like 80 ppg. If he wants more minutes then I get it but "style of play" isn't a legitimate reason for not playing for Texas. 

Because he can play for Eric Musselman who is an objectively better offensive coach and possibly the best offensive mind currently going who has been an NBA head coach? Muss is a better bet right now than RT until RT proves he can do it with his own guys. 

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txhorns

txhorns 2408

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29 minutes ago, Teryor said:

Because he can play for Eric Musselman who is an objectively better offensive coach and possibly the best offensive mind currently going who has been an NBA head coach? Muss is a better bet right now than RT until RT proves he can do it with his own guys. 

What does Arkansas’ team look like right now?

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Schulz2.0

Schulz2.0 28768

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38 minutes ago, Teryor said:

Because he can play for Eric Musselman who is an objectively better offensive coach and possibly the best offensive mind currently going who has been an NBA head coach? Muss is a better bet right now than RT until RT proves he can do it with his own guys. 

Arkansas was 20-13 prior to the NCAA tournament. 

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ztejas

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1 hour ago, Teryor said:

Because he can play for Eric Musselman who is an objectively better offensive coach and possibly the best offensive mind currently going who has been an NBA head coach? Muss is a better bet right now than RT until RT proves he can do it with his own guys. 

I seriously doubt he's picking Arky over Texas because he favors Musselman's offensive philosophy and play design. On top of that - Texas adjO was 39 spots higher than Arky's last season. 

Muss is a great coach and I'd never knock any kid for wanting to play for him but he isn't some offensive savant. He has yet to produce a top 40 offense at Arky per kenpom.

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Gut Wagon

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2 hours ago, Teryor said:

Because he can play for Eric Musselman who is an objectively better offensive coach and possibly the best offensive mind currently going who has been an NBA head coach? Muss is a better bet right now than RT until RT proves he can do it with his own guys. 

Maybe he just prefers his coaches topless. 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14485

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5 hours ago, Teryor said:

Because he can play for Eric Musselman who is an objectively better offensive coach and possibly the best offensive mind currently going who has been an NBA head coach? Muss is a better bet right now than RT until RT proves he can do it with his own guys. 

What makes Musselman objectively a better offensive coach?

He's had 0 Top 20 offenses at Arkansas with an average rating of 51.25 in his 4 seasons. Terry's 30 games last year were likely much better than anything Musselman has done at Arkansas.

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horn4life

horn4life 3755

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19 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

What makes Musselman objectively a better offensive coach?

He's had 0 Top 20 offenses at Arkansas with an average rating of 51.25 in his 4 seasons. Terry's 30 games last year were likely much better than anything Musselman has done at Arkansas.

I think there is also an asterisk next to Terry's name in that scenario, because it was "Beard's team." A fair argument to be certain. That's why I think RGBIII is so concerned about losing Holland, as it's a loss no matter how you paint it or justify it.  Retaining Holland was important perceptually, and perception is reality in recruiting.  Terry needs to win.  Without wins it does not matter what situation he was hired in, nor how far we went in this years tournament.  He needs to win with HIS guys.  He's gonna have that asterisk in a lot of fans and players minds until he wins at Texas with his own crew.

I don't think you can really compare Musselman and Terry in that Terry isn't remotely the self-promoter that Musselman is.  But I think Terry is a team builder.  Now it's up to him to get the players he needs to win, whether one and dones, or in the portal.  It's also a new landscape that may not be a conducive to the "family/team" recruiting style I sense he would prefer.  Bottom line he needs to get another quality player in the fold to have the sort of depth he's gonna need to be able to get close to last years performance.  And I think for a lot of folks he's gonna need to get close to remove that asterisk from their mind. 

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TheBryMan81

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On 5/6/2023 at 11:14 AM, Teryor said:

Because he can play for Eric Musselman who is an objectively better offensive coach and possibly the best offensive mind currently going who has been an NBA head coach? Muss is a better bet right now than RT until RT proves he can do it with his own guys. 

If that was really the issue.... Then why even commit and sign with Texas in the first place? Chris Beard wasn't exactly known for offensive showcases. If the opportunity to play for Musselman was the deciding factor, he would've decommitted much earlier than he actually did.

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SarkAfterDark

SarkAfterDark 1688

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On 5/6/2023 at 7:54 AM, RGBIII said:

Because that’s recruiting and RT has this job partially based on that

 

Recruiting is telling Holland he can come in and immediately compete for a starting spot and he'll be in an offense that will allow him to score from the wing.

Recruiting is not promising a starting spot and or an offense will be centered around him.

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HtownHorn

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2 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Anybody have any updates on our next portal targets?  Wonder if we are in a wait and see approach with Hunter and Mitchell before we take on anyone new.

They have been listed on the portal thread and the 2023-2024 thread.

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Js1

Js1 85104

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4 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Anybody have any updates on our next portal targets?  Wonder if we are in a wait and see approach with Hunter and Mitchell before we take on anyone new.

If Texas is looking at Rodman Jr, probably not a lot of hope on Mitchell. Sellers is important bc we need a 4th guard 

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Schulz2.0

Schulz2.0 28768

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8 hours ago, TheBryMan81 said:

If that was really the issue.... Then why even commit and sign with Texas in the first place? Chris Beard wasn't exactly known for offensive showcases. If the opportunity to play for Musselman was the deciding factor, he would've decommitted much earlier than he actually did.

The narrative is that Texas under Terry won't develop 5 star talent because of Morris and Mitchell. Terry prioritized, rightly, playing experienced players. Musselman played several freshman heavy minutes, including Anthony Black who'll likely be a lottery pick.

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cafe society

cafe society 2840

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26 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

The narrative is that Texas under Terry won't develop 5 star talent because of Morris and Mitchell. Terry prioritized, rightly, playing experienced players. Musselman played several freshman heavy minutes, including Anthony Black who'll likely be a lottery pick.

Didn't Musselman have to play freshmen big minutes?  I thought they lost most of their '21-'22 roster.  Not that this would be noted by high school seniors.

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Schulz2.0

Schulz2.0 28768

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46 minutes ago, cafe society said:

Didn't Musselman have to play freshmen big minutes?  I thought they lost most of their '21-'22 roster.  Not that this would be noted by high school seniors.

Regardless of circumstances, Musselman played Black, Walsh, and Smith 24+ minutes per game or more. Mitchell and Morris played significantly less. Black is a projected top-10 pick. That's the narrative being pushed.

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UnhappilyMarried

UnhappilyMarried 815

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16 hours ago, Schulz2.0 said:

Regardless of circumstances, Musselman played Black, Walsh, and Smith 24+ minutes per game or more. Mitchell and Morris played significantly less. Black is a projected top-10 pick. That's the narrative being pushed.

Wasn’t Holland in the building to see us beat them in a scrimmage by 40? Wonder why one of those teams played more freshmen. 
 

The only thing I care about still is that everyone on planet earth knew Muss never stopped recruiting him and we sat back and let him eat our lunch. And fuck Holland for waiting so long that we were too late to get in on elite wing transfers

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Schulz2.0

Schulz2.0 28768

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8 minutes ago, UnhappilyMarried said:

Wasn’t Holland in the building to see us beat them in a scrimmage by 40? Wonder why one of those teams played more freshmen. 
 

The only thing I care about still is that everyone on planet earth knew Muss never stopped recruiting him and we sat back and let him eat our lunch. And fuck Holland for waiting so long that we were too late to get in on elite wing transfers

The 5 star kids that see themselves as one and dones want to play. They want to be a featured part of the game plan. It's not a hard concept. Winning is generally secondary to getting developed how the expect.

It's more like Terry played vets this past season to win and get the HC job. Musselman played several true freshmen a ton of minutes and lost several more games because of it.

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