Texas Basketball Recruiting Notes: A Clean Shave

[HenryJames 66293]

Can he defend?

[Hornlover 8858]

5 hours ago, Ricky's one-hitter said:

5th yr guard averaging over ~20 ppg for his career and shooting .388 from three, from Rockwell via Dallas Jesuit. 

Yeah, I'd hope we're interested. 

Gotta get Perryman to work that Jesuit connection. 

[Mason Ramsey 3398]

I would guess we'd go for one of Abmas, Olivari and Love. I would probably prefer Olivari or Abmas (not sure if we are pursuing those two but Gerry did report we are in contact with Love).

Edited April 4, 2023 by Mason Ramsey

[Js1 85815]

11 hours ago, Mason Ramsey said:

I would guess we'd go for one of Abmas, Olivari and Love. I would probably prefer Olivari or Abmas (not sure if we are pursuing those two but Gerry did report we are in contact with Love).

From what I’ve read on Reddit, the expectation is Abmas is going to Wichita unless he thinks he has legit pro prospects and might want to prove it at the P5 level. And if the 💰is big enough 

[Mason Ramsey 3398]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

From what I’ve read on Reddit, the expectation is Abmas is going to Wichita unless he thinks he has legit pro prospects and might want to prove it at the P5 level. And if the 💰is big enough 

Would make sense to want to follow his coach, but it might be hard to ignore if a blue blood or a program like Texas comes calling to say "come be our leading scorer, get PAID, and get a lot more exposure here compared to Wichita" (and in our case, be much closer to home). I would think with the right pitch, it's possible we could land him. 

[RGBIII 22843]

AJ Johnson may not be coming to Texas now and instead going to the NBL. Arterio Morris may test the portal as well but could be a raise play

[Js1 85815]

17 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

AJ Johnson may not be coming to Texas now and instead going to the NBL. Arterio Morris may test the portal as well but could be a raise play

[CashMcCoy 3242]

23 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

AJ Johnson may not be coming to Texas now and instead going to the NBL. Arterio Morris may test the portal as well but could be a raise play

Is my $10 monthly donation not enough?

[Ghost of Frank Erwin 29]

1 hour ago, RGBIII said:

AJ Johnson may not be coming to Texas now and instead going to the NBL. Arterio Morris may test the portal as well but could be a raise play

I would imagine the pay in NBL vs Texas is comparable, but I guess he doesnt want to go to class. Arterio transferring somewhere else wouldn't make sense unless there's someone in the portal coming to Texas that would take his minutes. Either way.... shit. 

[Schulz2.0 29063]

3 hours ago, RGBIII said:

AJ Johnson may not be coming to Texas now and instead going to the NBL. Arterio Morris may test the portal as well but could be a raise play

So we're going portaling for another guard?

[Rickylovesweed 14842]

I don't even get excited anymore by 5 star recruits in basketball. 

Several go the NBL route, the ones that make it to college normally aren't ready and then enter the draft after 1 year, and if they don't enter the draft there's a good chance they transfer due to lack of playing time/production. 

Build a roster with transfers every year. It's the way. 

 

[Js1 85815]

Some of that 2022 class besides those 2: Nick Smith, Whitehead, Filipowski,  Lively, Cason Wallace, Brandon Miller, Anthony Black, Bona, Jordan Wash, Dick, Hood-Schifino. Some damn good ones in there 

We would have been excited by any of those a year ago. 

We just got one who couldn’t do jack offensively and one who ended up behind 2 fifth year players

[Rickylovesweed 14842]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Some of that 2022 class besides those 2: Nick Smith, Whitehead, Filipowski,  Lively, Cason Wallace, Brandon Miller, Anthony Black, Bona, Jordan Wash, Dick, Hood-Schifino. Some damn good ones in there 

We would have been excited by any of those a year ago. 

We just got one who couldn’t do jack offensively and one who ended up behind 2 fifth year players

How many of those players advanced past the Sweet 16?

[Gut Wagon 8130]

34 minutes ago, Rickylovesweed said:

I don't even get excited anymore by 5 star recruits in basketball. 

Several go the NBL route, the ones that make it to college normally aren't ready and then enter the draft after 1 year, and if they don't enter the draft there's a good chance they transfer due to lack of playing time/production. 

Build a roster with transfers every year. It's the way. 

 

Sad but pretty much true. I do think you'll still need some of your own "glue" guys who came up through your program. They probably won't be stuffing the stat sheet every night but could help in other key ways, even if primarily in the form of providing depth and culture. 

[Lonestar88 4729]

1 hour ago, Rickylovesweed said:

How many of those players advanced past the Sweet 16?

The importance of freshman has obviously waned, but that’s a dumb way to do the measurement. Brandon Miller, Gradey Dick, and Jarace Walker were all 5 star freshman who played major roles in their teams getting 1 seeds. To act like they don’t matter at all because of the randomness of the tournament is silly. 

The right freshman still have value and any coach with half a brain will still pursue them, it’s just that nobody is building their team around freshman anymore except for Duke and Kentucky.

[UDontKnow 10507]

4 hours ago, Schulz2.0 said:

So we're going portaling for another guard?

[Rickylovesweed 14842]

2 hours ago, Lonestar88 said:

The importance of freshman has obviously waned, but that’s a dumb way to do the measurement. Brandon Miller, Gradey Dick, and Jarace Walker were all 5 star freshman who played major roles in their teams getting 1 seeds. To act like they don’t matter at all because of the randomness of the tournament is silly. 

The right freshman still have value and any coach with half a brain will still pursue them, it’s just that nobody is building their team around freshman anymore except for Duke and Kentucky.

I mean it's just a reality now. The teams that advance far in the tournament are generally made up of transfers and lower end recruits that stay at the same school for 3 or 4 years. 

5 star freshman phenoms contributing on final 4 caliber teams are much more of an outlier than anything else.

I don't think it's randomness either. Older and more experienced players perform better in the tournament because they've been there before. 

 

[Rickylovesweed 14842]

Brandon Miller shot 8/46 from the field with 10 turnovers in 3 NCAA tournament games. Grady Dick was fucking awful in the Round of 32 game against Arkansas. Jarace Walker was fucking terrible in 2 tournament games and shot 4/16 from the field against Miami in the Sweet 16. 

That's not randomness. That's called freshman not being ready when the lights turn on. 

Yeah, they helped their teams get a 1 seed and then they crumbled when the tournament started. Again, I don't think it's randomness at all. 

 

[Laxtonto 12685]

24 minutes ago, Rickylovesweed said:

Brandon Miller shot 8/46 from the field with 10 turnovers in 3 NCAA tournament games. Grady Dick was fucking awful in the Round of 32 game against Arkansas. Jarace Walker was fucking terrible in 2 tournament games and shot 4/16 from the field against Miami in the Sweet 16. 

That's not randomness. That's called freshman not being ready when the lights turn on. 

Yeah, they helped their teams get a 1 seed and then they crumbled when the tournament started. Again, I don't think it's randomness at all. 

 

I’ve always been of the mind that it’s a mix of laying consistently better competition late in the season and fatigue, which both impact the mental side of the game.

[Rickylovesweed 14842]

9 hours ago, Laxtonto said:

I’ve always been of the mind that it’s a mix of laying consistently better competition late in the season and fatigue, which both impact the mental side of the game.

Outside of some very rare examples, I just don’t think you want a FR being one of your top players. 

Baylor is a perfect example this year. If they replace Keyonte George with a decent transfer I bet they have a much better season this year and advance much further in the tournament. 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Rickylovesweed

[Teryor 4558]

2 minutes ago, Rickylovesweed said:

Outside of some very rare examples, I just don’t think you want a FR being one of your top players. 

Baylor is a perfect example this year. If they replace Keyonte George with a decent transfer I bet they have a much better season this year and advance much further in the tournament. 

 

Totally with you. If Baylor replaced Keyonte George their bigs would have magically played well instead of being awful this year.

[closetojumping 63353]

I don't buy for a second that AJ Johnson's camp is willing to send him to the other end of the world for similar money. Not even outsized cash. 

Morris and Terry aren't a great fit, whether he stays or goes. 

 

[Rickylovesweed 14842]

51 minutes ago, Teryor said:

Totally with you. If Baylor replaced Keyonte George their bigs would have magically played well instead of being awful this year.

I see you didn't watch Baylor this year. They were a much better team when the 4 guards were Flagler, Cryer, Bonner and Love. All you need to do is turn on the Texas game in Waco to see the obvious. 

Also, money spent on a decent transfer big would have been money better spent for Baylor than spending it on a player like George who played zero defense and was inefficient. 

Baylor hitched their wagon to Keyonte George and it cost them this year. 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Rickylovesweed

[dieucla98 2942]

1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

Morris and Terry aren't a great fit, whether he stays or goes. 

 

Can you share more on this?

Morris looked as bought in as he could for a 5* getting 10 min a game. Hard nosed, high effort defense. Rarely tried to do too much on offense and had no interest in trying to be "the guy". Took his open shots when presented them, made a decent clip of them, and otherwise passed the ball to teammates. On paper, that doesn't scream "not a great fit with the coach" but obviously, a lot goes on behind the scenes that most of us aren't privy to.

[closetojumping 63353]

41 minutes ago, dieucla98 said:

Can you share more on this?

Morris looked as bought in as he could for a 5* getting 10 min a game. Hard nosed, high effort defense. Rarely tried to do too much on offense and had no interest in trying to be "the guy". Took his open shots when presented them, made a decent clip of them, and otherwise passed the ball to teammates. On paper, that doesn't scream "not a great fit with the coach" but obviously, a lot goes on behind the scenes that most of us aren't privy to.

I don’t think it is a personality or effort issue. I don’t have anything else to offer, just passing it on. 

[RGBIII 22843]

1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

I don't buy for a second that AJ Johnson's camp is willing to send him to the other end of the world for similar money. Not even outsized cash. 

Morris and Terry aren't a great fit, whether he stays or goes. 

 

Fwiw the Johnson smoke isn’t about money. More about not wanting to play school for a year

[closetojumping 63353]

23 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

Fwiw the Johnson smoke isn’t about money. More about not wanting to play school for a year

I heard a full breakdown of the Johnson situation this morning. Point is that I don't think there is any truth to the notion that that dude's camp sends him to NBL Australia.

[RGBIII 22843]

18 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I heard a full breakdown of the Johnson situation this morning. Point is that I don't think there is any truth to the notion that that dude's camp sends him to NBL Australia.

That would be great, very much hope this is the case and you’d def know better than I would

[HtownHorn 14940]

2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

I don't buy for a second that AJ Johnson's camp is willing to send him to the other end of the world for similar money. Not even outsized cash. 

Morris and Terry aren't a great fit, whether he stays or goes. 

 

Yeah, Gerry shit all over it within 5 minutes of it being asked, it is posted here quickly, and then there is a slew of posts about Johnson leaving. Texas offers him a better chance to build his brand than any of the shitty NBA minor leagues.

Interesting on Morris, I think Texas could easily replace him with the portal and improve the production.

[Lonestar88 4729]

12 hours ago, Rickylovesweed said:

I mean it's just a reality now. The teams that advance far in the tournament are generally made up of transfers and lower end recruits that stay at the same school for 3 or 4 years. 

5 star freshman phenoms contributing on final 4 caliber teams are much more of an outlier than anything else.

I don't think it's randomness either. Older and more experienced players perform better in the tournament because they've been there before. 

 

No one is arguing with you about the transfer portal being supremely important. The disagreement is that you’re abandoning 5-star freshman completely and basing that on the randomness of the tournament, and not even long term data from the tournament because the portal hasn’t even been around that long. That is reactionary.

Btw, Duke made the final 4 last year with freshman Paolo Banchero being their best player. Gonzaga made the national championship the year before that with freshman Jalen Suggs being their best, and there was no tournament the year before that. You’re getting caught up in the moment of this year.

Coaches need to be more judicious, maybe there are some 5-stars you avoid, but you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

[HtownHorn 14940]

50 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

Fwiw the Johnson smoke isn’t about money. More about not wanting to play school for a year

Technically, it would be one semester.

[HtownHorn 14940]

4 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

No one is arguing with you about the transfer portal being supremely important. The disagreement is that you’re abandoning 5-star freshman completely and basing that on the randomness of the tournament, and not even long term data from the tournament because the portal hasn’t even been around that long. That is reactionary.

Btw, Duke made the final 4 last year with freshman Paolo Banchero being their best player. Gonzaga made the national championship the year before that with freshman Jalen Suggs being their best, and there was no tournament the year before that. You’re getting caught up in the moment of this year.

Coaches need to be more judicious, maybe there are some 5-stars you avoid, but you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

I agree. You avoid 5 stars like Mitchell with no ability to create their own shot or have limited range. If we replaced Mitchell with a wing on the level of Rice, we'd probably have made the final 4.

This is why Calipari will likely continue to flounder at Kentucky building his teams on 5-star HS players with serious holes in their game.

Edited April 5, 2023 by HtownHorn

[Rickylovesweed 14842]

27 minutes ago, Lonestar88 said:

No one is arguing with you about the transfer portal being supremely important. The disagreement is that you’re abandoning 5-star freshman completely and basing that on the randomness of the tournament, and not even long term data from the tournament because the portal hasn’t even been around that long. That is reactionary.

Btw, Duke made the final 4 last year with freshman Paolo Banchero being their best player. Gonzaga made the national championship the year before that with freshman Jalen Suggs being their best, and there was no tournament the year before that. You’re getting caught up in the moment of this year.

Coaches need to be more judicious, maybe there are some 5-stars you avoid, but you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

I never said to completely abandon 5 star freshman. I said the return on investment is normally not worth it compared to other options. 

Obviously, if the #1 recruit wants to come to Texas you take him. Regardless, my opinion is building a roster around 5 star freshman is generally not the way to go. There’s not enough data on the portal yet but I bet this year will be the trend moving forward—I.e. older teams advancing deep in the tournament with transfers and players that have been in system for a couple years rather than with 5 star FR. 

[Rickylovesweed 14842]

42 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

I agree. You avoid 5 stars like Mitchell with no ability to create their own shot or have limited range. If we replaced Mitchell with a wing on the level of Rice, we'd probably have made the final 4.

This is why Calipari will likely continue to flounder at Kentucky building his teams on 5-star HS players with serious holes in their game.

The other thing is avoiding those type players if you know there’s very little chance you get more than 1 year with them. Granted, sometimes that’s difficult to determine. 

I think Mitchell is a good case study. He’s a 5 star that has zero offensive game and was likely leaving after 1 year no matter what. Was prioritizing NIL funds for Mitchell worth it over adding another experienced transfer with more game? No chance. 

[Lonestar88 4729]

40 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

I agree. You avoid 5 stars like Mitchell with no ability to create their own shot or have limited range. If we replaced Mitchell with a wing on the level of Rice, we'd probably have made the final 4.

This is why Calipari will likely continue to flounder at Kentucky building his teams on 5-star HS players with serious holes in their game.

Calipari doesn’t team build at all, he just recruits high talent with little regard to fit. They’ve got 4 of the top 5 hs recruits coming in this class. No idea if they fit, but they got them. I guess it works if one of those players is Anthony Davis.

 

8 minutes ago, Rickylovesweed said:

I never said to completely abandon 5 star freshman. I said the return on investment is normally not worth it compared to other options. 

Obviously, if the #1 recruit wants to come to Texas you take him. Regardless, my opinion is building a roster around 5 star freshman is generally not the way to go. There’s not enough data on the portal yet but I bet this year will be the trend moving forward—I.e. older teams advancing deep in the tournament with transfers and players that have been in system for a couple years rather than with 5 star FR. 

The building around freshmen has already largely stopped. Like I said earlier, Duke and Kentucky are pretty much the only programs still doing it. Freshmen will be more complimentary now as opposed to the main course. So I think attitude and disposition matter more than ever for HS recruits. Will a star freshman be willing to take on the role needed on a veteran team? The answer being no is why Beard passed on Keyonte George.

 

Dillon Mitchell’s offensive game clearly wasn’t ready, but he wasn’t a team killer either. He fit in with the guys and didn’t demand the ball, that probably played a part in why he was a take and George was not.

[Gut Wagon 8130]

Aside from becoming an AT&T meme, Kentucky's "one-and-done" approach hasn't been of much note lately. But I guess those guys picked up a few bucks and helped their brand by doing that commercial. Although I'd have said, "Keep your money. I'll take Lily." 

[HtownHorn 14940]

1 hour ago, Gut Wagon said:

Aside from becoming an AT&T meme, Kentucky's "one-and-done" approach hasn't been of much note lately. But I guess those guys picked up a few bucks and helped their brand by doing that commercial. Although I'd have said, "Keep your money. I'll take Lily." 

That commercial was made with a SR, too.

Edited April 5, 2023 by HtownHorn

[Fud 9576]

3 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Texas offers him a better chance to build his brand than any of the shitty NBA minor leagues.

Jalen Green and Scoot Henderson's brands appear to be doing fine 

[CashMcCoy 3242]

Would be interesting to know what the staff’s expectations were of Mitchell before he got there and how they changed over time. He still started and contributed for an E8 team, but I know most of us were expecting more immediate impact from the #4 guy. Doesn’t mean we should stop trying for all the top 10 high school talents we can stack, while also using the portal to fill any needs if you can.

If this season’s team had freshman Bamba or even Hayes (easily best Shaka eval ever) instead of Mitchell we’d have won it all. I hope DM finds success in the future wherever he is but I’m not sure his ceiling is the highest at Texas. Would love to have him back if he could accept a bench role and kept developing his offensive bag though.

[Chuckie Finster 22784]

44 minutes ago, Fud said:

Jalen Green and Scoot Henderson's brands appear to be doing fine 

It didn't hurt his draft stock, but I would actually say Green's brand did suffer a bit by not having a year in college to build a following.  People were much quicker to label him a bust than most any other rookie in memory and the vitriol online has seemed unnecessarily harsh from the basketball community at large. 

[Gut Wagon 8130]

1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

Ultimately, it’s about getting a roster full of guys who can score and handle the ball so you pretty much always have at least 4 guys on the floor who are some kind of threats on offense.  No top level team should have guards who aren’t well rounded offensive players in the portal era.  The model would be the Villanova and Baylor teams that have won titles recently.  Too many threats to handle and lots of guys that are complete players. 

 

Agreed. Of course, guys also need the right mindset about showcasing their skills. If one is determined to be the leading scorer most nights, it's hard to see him wanting to be part of a group who all play rugged D and score 12-15 apiece. 

[Wulaw Horn 19261]

3 hours ago, Lonestar88 said:

Calipari doesn’t team build at all, he just recruits high talent with little regard to fit. They’ve got 4 of the top 5 hs recruits coming in this class. No idea if they fit, but they got them. I guess it works if one of those players is Anthony Davis.

 

The building around freshmen has already largely stopped. Like I said earlier, Duke and Kentucky are pretty much the only programs still doing it. Freshmen will be more complimentary now as opposed to the main course. So I think attitude and disposition matter more than ever for HS recruits. Will a star freshman be willing to take on the role needed on a veteran team? The answer being no is why Beard passed on Keyonte George.

 

Dillon Mitchell’s offensive game clearly wasn’t ready, but he wasn’t a team killer either. He fit in with the guys and didn’t demand the ball, that probably played a part in why he was a take and George was not.

I loved everything about Dillon Mitchell this year except his actual on the court game.  It's a weird thing to say I guess, but it was refreshing. 5 star. Played hard. Didn't play big minutes. Cheered his teammates on whenever he wasn't in the game.  Seemed to keep his head down and didn't pout.  None of that shit is common for a top 10 type recruit who doesn't see things going his way and is watching his NBA stock crater.  Seems like a good dude. 

[Wulaw Horn 19261]

1 hour ago, Fud said:

Jalen Green and Scoot Henderson's brands appear to be doing fine 

Is Jalen Green's brand really getting built?  Plays on a shitty Rockets team.  Most basketball people probably know about him mainly by his beef with Bill Simmons. It's possible he sucks at basketball (well, not sucks- but- you know- no great shakes). Is going to the NBDL and making like 100k in salary really better than going to Duke or Kansas and making 500k and being the face of a blue blood program?  Makes no sense to me.  

[RollingPresidential 633]

Is the Morris and RT stuff related at all to Morris's other issues

[honolulu horn 6179]

I'd love to have Dillon back. He was a spark plug during Disu's absence against Miami. 

[HtownHorn 14940]

1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

It didn't hurt his draft stock, but I would actually say Green's brand did suffer a bit by not having a year in college to build a following.  People were much quicker to label him a bust than most any other rookie in memory and the vitriol online has seemed unnecessarily harsh from the basketball community at large. 

Scoot is in for a similar experience. His stats and shooting %'s in OVE were abysmal given his stature as a player and the level of competition. His handlers had him shut down because his stock had started to drop. I'd rather have Miller (if he can clean up his act) or Walker from UH over Henderson.

[MrX 745]

If Mitchell comes back he could be an absolute monster by the end of next year just based on ceiling and potential trajectory. That said I’d expect him to declare. 
 

The Beard model for this year and last seemed to punt on rim protection. I’d like to see us recruit one big dude who can do that. 

[Wulaw Horn 19261]

8 hours ago, MrX said:

If Mitchell comes back he could be an absolute monster by the end of next year just based on ceiling and potential trajectory. That said I’d expect him to declare. 
 

The Beard model for this year and last seemed to punt on rim protection. I’d like to see us recruit one big dude who can do that. 

Really lowers the offensive ceiling imo.  Also not totally necessary against most teams. I get forgoing that. 

[Fud 9576]

14 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Is Jalen Green's brand really getting built?  Plays on a shitty Rockets team.  Most basketball people probably know about him mainly by his beef with Bill Simmons. It's possible he sucks at basketball (well, not sucks- but- you know- no great shakes). Is going to the NBDL and making like 100k in salary really better than going to Duke or Kansas and making 500k and being the face of a blue blood program?  Makes no sense to me.  

Yes, his "brand" is doing fine. He went to Ignite and was a the third overall pick. He'll eventually get the full rookie exemption and be very rich. Scoot is going to be the second overall pick and if Wemba wasn't in this draft he'd go #1 overall, and his "brand" will be fine. 

There are plenty of highly rated recruits who went to Duke or Kansas who have a "brand" in the NBA, and there are plenty who don't because they weren't good

Unless you just want to be a college student, this "brand" notion should be much less important than developing as a player in preparation for the NBA, and for players who are talented enough and who have the emotional maturity, it probably makes more sense to go to the G-League where you can spend all of your time working on your game with better developmental coaching in NBA schemes against grown ass men

 

8 hours ago, MrX said:

If Mitchell comes back he could be an absolute monster by the end of next year just based on ceiling and potential trajectory. That said I’d expect him to declare. 
 

The Beard model for this year and last seemed to punt on rim protection. I’d like to see us recruit one big dude who can do that. 

If Mitchell has the option to start at Ignite (it's unclear if they want him), that’s probably his best move. If he shows he can guard up and down the lineup in NBA coverages vs that competition, he’s potentially a lotto pick next year as a role player, vs if he looks marginally better in college over last season he’s probably a mid second rounder 

Hope he returns obviously 

[Fud 9576]

13 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Scoot is in for a similar experience. His stats and shooting %'s in OVE were abysmal given his stature as a player and the level of competition. His handlers had him shut down because his stock had started to drop. I'd rather have Miller (if he can clean up his act) or Walker from UH over Henderson.

Scoot didn't play for OVE, he played for Ignite. The Thompson twins played for OVE. 

Scoot did fine for his age, and Ignite plays strong competition for a bunch of young guys. He's going to be the second or third overall pick, and Miller's stock moved up through the season and the discussion is more about the value of a big wing vs a small guard than Scoot's issues. Scoot is still a very strong pick at #2 or #3.