will we ever stop requiring a college degree in order to work the majority of good jobs?

[SimonBolivar 10958]

2 hours ago, slorch said:

I've never really been insulted on Shag/ Surly until today.

a fucking car salesman?  Just shoot me...

Yall leave Willy Loman alone [see I learned that reference getting my fancy degree, or more likely Seinfeld]

Edited February 1, 2023 by SimonBolivar

[DalTxHornFan 3101]

Salesmen are what makes the world go around --ask Rush:

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31483]

5 hours ago, CHIEF said:

CHIEF Jr. graduates in May with an ME degree. We are close to Lockheed, one of his mentors works there. He told him that the ME degree will get him an interview, but his six years as a boat mechanic will get him hired. Shit has to be designed, so you can work on it. Especially warplanes. He said 95% of engineers being turned out have no practical experience working on projects that require ongoing maintenance, or replacement of a component that has been damaged, or destroyed. They have no idea that they need to add clearance for wrenches, sockets, and screwdrivers. Military equipment needs to be fixed in hours and days, not months. Apparently they turn over about 60% of their first year engineering hires. 

A degree is mandatory for the pay grade, and title. But his continued employment will probably hinge on being able to turn a wrench, or design components to be replaced, or maintained. Things he actually learned as a mechanic.

He has great communication skills, and not really the personality of most engineers I know. He just happens to be good at math, physics, calculus, and programming.

CHIEF

I had an experience like this interning after my first year, when I really didn't know shit.  I was tasked to design a fixture to hold a fiber optic bundle in a location that would illuminate a circuit board for placement of components by a robot.  I rightly determined where the computer-vision guys wanted the light, and measured that up relative to the mounting space for the fixture.  I was smart enough to slot the screw holes in the bracket base to give some adjustability.  Where I fucked up was I made it a flat base with a machined/cast-in arm that extended at an angle to the spot where the bundle was to be located, with a hole in it for the bundle and set screws around the periphery of the bundle to give some positional adjustment there as well.

My boss (RIP Fred), commended my work but said it was too hard to machine, so let's ditch the angled arm and go with vertical and horizontal members held together with screws running in slots.

Come to think of it, that looks a lot like baby twice and Fred.

[BabaYaga 15299]

Every college degree brings it's own merits to the conversation.  At the end of the day, any student and parent not factoring in the ROI of the degree is missing out on a critical lesson about decisions and consequences.  

If my son wanted to go to SMU and get a humanities degree vs. Tech and engineering (he's not, just an example) - we'd sit down and run the numbers.  My oldest is scouting colleges now.  He's a junior in HS and we had him construct a spreadsheet with every school he's entertaining and break each down.  Initially it was basic stuff like size, location, entrance requirements, etc.  Once he narrows down a field of study, we go another level deeper:

• Location & logistics of the school's location
• Debt incurred to obtain the degree
• Application of the degree and post-graduate options
• Earning potential post graduation
• Cost to pay the loans (yes little fucker, you're getting loans regardless of my ability to cover the cost of the school)
• Social costs - car, cost of living in the town
• Off site living costs
• Fat chicks with low self esteem

 

[Nivek 16933]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

You need to figure out the ways in which you think that you excel at, and the ones you aren't so strong at.  It's not unlike being an athlete - if you have powerful legs and great speed, maybe you're an RB.  If you aren't as fast, but have a cannon arm, maybe you're a QB.  Play to your strengths, be aware of your weaknesses. 

I look at it a bit differently.  I was crappy at math when I started college and I left with the ability to teach myself higher-order math when I needed it.  I found a subject I was interested in that I had no prior knowledge of.  To me, college was about getting an education and cultivating your mind, not some job training program some seem to think it is. 

 

[BabaYaga 15299]

Just now, Nivek said:

To me, college was about getting an education and cultivating your mind, not some job training program some seem to think it is. 

Obligatory

[Biff Tannen 45690]

50 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Cost to pay the loans (yes little fucker, you're getting loans regardless of my ability to cover the cost of the school)

Well this is a dick move 

[CHIEF 5089]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Every college degree brings it's own merits to the conversation.  At the end of the day, any student and parent not factoring in the ROI of the degree is missing out on a critical lesson about decisions and consequences.  

If my son wanted to go to SMU and get a humanities degree vs. Tech and engineering (he's not, just an example) - we'd sit down and run the numbers.  My oldest is scouting colleges now.  He's a junior in HS and we had him construct a spreadsheet with every school he's entertaining and break each down.  Initially it was basic stuff like size, location, entrance requirements, etc.  Once he narrows down a field of study, we go another level deeper:

• Location & logistics of the school's location
• Debt incurred to obtain the degree
• Application of the degree and post-graduate options
• Earning potential post graduation
• Cost to pay the loans (yes little fucker, you're getting loans regardless of my ability to cover the cost of the school)
• Social costs - car, cost of living in the town
• Off site living costs
• Fat chicks with low self esteem

 

CHIEF Jr. started out at UTD, my wife and I and my parents paid for that first academic year, it was about $40k for tuition, room, and board. We discussed loans after that. He decided to move back home and pay $800/semester to finish his first 76 hours at Hill College in Cleburne. Totally his decision. He was set to go back to UTD, he had been recruited hard by the Dean of Engineering at Tarleton (his best friend's uncle), but they didn't have an ABET certification at the time, as it was a new program. In his year at Hill College  they received their certification. He decided to live at home and commute. The tuition is about $10k a year, we required him to go to college, so we are paying it. He will graduate with no student debt. All of this based on his decisions.

11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I had an experience like this interning after my first year, when I really didn't know shit.  I was tasked to design a fixture to hold a fiber optic bundle in a location that would illuminate a circuit board for placement of components by a robot.  I rightly determined where the computer-vision guys wanted the light, and measured that up relative to the mounting space for the fixture.  I was smart enough to slot the screw holes in the bracket base to give some adjustability.  Where I fucked up was I made it a flat base with a machined/cast-in arm that extended at an angle to the spot where the bundle was to be located, with a hole in it for the bundle and set screws around the periphery of the bundle to give some positional adjustment there as well.

My boss (RIP Fred), commended my work but said it was too hard to machine, so let's ditch the angled arm and go with vertical and horizontal members held together with screws running in slots.

Come to think of it, that looks a lot like baby twice and Fred.

The Tarleton Engineering school received a grant from FMC, in Stephenville, to have the engineer students work on automating their oilfield o-ring machining. They are working with big boy pressures (50-100k psi). Most of these are $200+ o-rings. They vary in size from 4" diameter to 48" in diameter. It is considered their "capstone" project. Per spec, they pump a 15% overage into their o-ring molds. They have one guy, been with them for 30 years, that trims the excess rubber from the o-rings. He is nearing retirement, and stupidly they have no one else ready to take over. So the engineering students have been tasked with automating his position. The first thing CHIEF Jr. does is go and buy a copper/pvc deburring pen for $8.97, it is dummy proof. His idea was to let the QC guys trim it while inspecting it. Problem solved.

I guess the company gave too large of a grant to use this practical solution, they would rather spend $250k to have a machine do it, even though they are paying the QC folks to look it over.

As DalTxHornFan said, "salesmen make the World go round." I have been searching ME jobs, and the highest projected income is from a Sales Engineering job. Figuring out customer's automation needs, and designing or using your companies existing products to create a solution. CHIEF Jr. can sell an eskimo an ice maker, he worked me over enough to buy a $30k Polaris Ranger (you can use it for hunting, showing property, putting out signs, etc.). I think that Sales Engineering will be his calling. He also wants to travel, a career in sales will offer that opportunity.

CHIEF

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by CHIEF

[South Austin 52511]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

At the end of the day, any student and parent not factoring in the ROI of the degree is missing out on a critical lesson about decisions and consequences. 

Absolutely.  My daughter is looking to get out of Texas for college, and she's considering either state schools out west, like University of Washington and University of Oregon, or private schools in the northeast like Smith or Mount Holyoke.  For several years she thought she would pursue a liberal arts track in college, but over the past couple years she's discovered that she really enjoys and is good at math and chemistry, so she's considering a non-engineering STEM path.  I've having to explain to her the concept of ROI if she's at all leaning toward the private school route.  Her parents can only pay so much, and beyond that she'll have to get loans if there's not enough merit-based aid, so we're discussing the factors of debt and earning potential that come with various school and degree choices.  

I hate telling my daughter that her ultimate college choice is all about the money, but it's kinda all about the money.

[DalTxHornFan 3101]

4 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Absolutely.  My daughter is looking to get out of Texas for college, and she's considering either state schools out west, like University of Washington and University of Oregon, or private schools in the northeast like Smith or Mount Holyoke.  For several years she thought she would pursue a liberal arts track in college, but over the past couple years she's discovered that she really enjoys and is good at math and chemistry, so she's considering a non-engineering STEM path.  I've having to explain to her the concept of ROI if she's at all leaning toward the private school route.  Her parents can only pay so much, and beyond that she'll have to get loans if there's not enough merit-based aid, so we're discussing the factors of debt and earning potential that come with various school and degree choices.  

I hate telling my daughter that her ultimate college choice is all about the money, but it's kinda all about the money.

I told my kids that they could get their first degree anywhere they wanted to go without any college loan debt, except that all we would pay for would be the cost of in-state tuition at a public school in Texas.  I ended up with an aggy grad (but a full 2 percenter, to her credit!) and an UNT grad.  Both fully deployed into life and no college loan debt.

[Beau Vine 54230]

1 hour ago, CHIEF said:

CHIEF Jr. started out at UTD, my wife and I and my parents paid for that first academic year, it was about $40k for tuition, room, and board.

WTF???

[South Austin 52511]

29 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

I ended up with an aggy grad

I'll take out a second mortgage before I let my kid go aggy.

[fattyflattie 4639]

On 1/31/2023 at 10:59 AM, Celery Man said:

Art history is always a funny one to include with basket weaving. I took one art history class at Texas and it was both as difficult and as applicable to my post college life as calculus.

Troof 

[South Austin 52511]

1 hour ago, CHIEF said:

CHIEF Jr. started out at UTD, my wife and I and my parents paid for that first academic year, it was about $40k for tuition, room, and board.

 

3 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

WTF???

No shit.  Did you rent him a house in Highland Park?

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I'll take out a second mortgage before I let my kid go aggy.

Yep. Swayze household rules:

No aggy (if they want to be a vet, UC)
No Baylor

If they don’t like those rules, they can always go back to school in Brazil.

[CooterBrown 18014]

Absolutely.  My daughter is looking to get out of Texas for college, and she's considering either state schools out west, like University of Washington and University of Oregon, or private schools in the northeast like Smith or Mount Holyoke.  For several years she thought she would pursue a liberal arts track in college, but over the past couple years she's discovered that she really enjoys and is good at math and chemistry, so she's considering a non-engineering STEM path.  I've having to explain to her the concept of ROI if she's at all leaning toward the private school route.  Her parents can only pay so much, and beyond that she'll have to get loans if there's not enough merit-based aid, so we're discussing the factors of debt and earning potential that come with various school and degree choices.  
I hate telling my daughter that her ultimate college choice is all about the money, but it's kinda all about the money.

UW gives very little merit aid so mark that off the list if that’s a major factor. They’re on my daughter’s list so I’ve already looked up the data.

From the Common Data Set, in ‘21, 483 freshman got an average of $4,501 merit aid.

[South Austin 52511]

4 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Yep. Swayze household rules:

No aggy (if they want to be a vet, UC)
No Baylor

If they don’t like those rules, they can always go back to school in Brazil.

Yeah, and fuck Baylor, too.  But my daughter is a gay liberal, so is wise enough to avoid a school like Baylor. 

[South Austin 52511]

Just now, CooterBrown said:

UW gives very little merit aid so mark that off the list if that’s a major factor. They’re on my daughter’s list so I’ve already looked up the data.

From the Common Data Set, in ‘21, 483 freshman got an average of $4,501 merit aid.

I've read the same about UW.  We'll see.  She's got a few things going for her -- top 10%, classical guitar major who just made state in UIL competition + multi-year letter in varsity basketball, NHS, Science NHS and chemistry tutor (okay, I'm bragging; but she continues to blow me away).  But I know a lot of talented out-of-state kids apply to UW, so we're realistic on having to pay closer to sticker price there.

Anecdotally, I know a couple Austin parents who have sent their kids to University of Oregon, and were able to knock down costs enough to get them closer to Texas in-state tuition.  And cost of living is a lot cheaper in Eugene than Seattle. 

[gyroprotagonist 2592]

21 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Engineers really should be required to take a few classes on communication. Christ, most of them are just so awful at it.

they did at UT at least.  There was a EE class where we had to pretend to pitch to VCs.  get up in front of the class and go through a pitch.  The Indian and Pakistani students really went after each other (class got to ask questions during the pitch).  Then everyone turned a white dude when the crux of his plan was to use basically slave labor after he denigrated most of Asia in trying to explain his point.  Prof had to stop his pitch lol

Also a writing component class was required to graduate.  I took American Studies where we met at Posse East most fair weather days.

Requiring them and being good/decent at it are 2 different things though.  

[HamsterHookah 112]

4 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I've read the same about UW.  We'll see.  She's got a few things going for her -- top 10%, classical guitar major who just made state in UIL competition + multi-year letter in varsity basketball, NHS, Science NHS and chemistry tutor (okay, I'm bragging; but she continues to blow me away).  But I know a lot of talented out-of-state kids apply to UW, so we're realistic on having to pay closer to sticker price there.

Anecdotally, I know a couple Austin parents who have sent their kids to University of Oregon, and were able to knock down costs enough to get them closer to Texas in-state tuition.  And cost of living is a lot cheaper in Eugene than Seattle. 

One of my friends at work went to Oregon and loved it.

That said, Baylor is one of the few schools on the list that I'll actually pay for and allow that is a bad deal on paper (low ROI, high cost for average education), just for the cultural reasons. YMMV

[RDCanecutter 26446]

Y'all with future college kids need to know that the Tec de Monterrey is SACS accredited and accepts all kinds of US financial aid. Your kid will be surrounded by good-looking uppity Mexicans who will consider him or her a telenovela star. Tuition and room and board are relatively low so even with the occasional kidnapping fee you'll come out ahead.

[BabaYaga 15299]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

I hate telling my daughter that her ultimate college choice is all about the money, but it's kinda all about the money.

It need not be the ultimate deciding factor, but it also should be a part of the calculus.  Get the kids involved early and often

1 minute ago, RDCanecutter said:

so even with the occasional kidnapping fee you'll come out ahead.

Do they accept mother in law's?

[SimonBolivar 10958]

3 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

 

That said, Baylor is one of the few schools on the list that I'll actually pay for and allow that is a bad deal on paper (low ROI, high cost for average education), just for the cultural reasons. YMMV

Bad idea, I went to Baylor and look at how fucked up I am.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

3 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Y'all with future college kids need to know that the Tec de Monterrey is SACS accredited and accepts all kinds of US financial aid. Your kid will be surrounded by good-looking uppity Mexicans who will consider him or her a telenovela star. Tuition and room and board are relatively low so even with the occasional kidnapping fee you'll come out ahead.

Google Streetview some colleges in Bogota and realize your life was wasted.

[RDCanecutter 26446]

8 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Google Streetview some colleges in Bogota and realize your life was wasted.

When I was 21 I got on the mailing list of the Tec de Monterrey. I could have gone there for peanuts. Had never been to Mexico, probably would have enjoyed it, but I felt compelled to hurry up and graduate and get a shitty job, so no year at the Tec for me.

Finally visited the place 30 years later trying to set up a Study Abroad for an American school, dammit dammit dammit couldn't believe I'd turned it down. 

[Beau Vine 54230]

33 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

That said, Baylor is one of the few schools on the list that I'll actually pay for and allow that is a bad deal on paper (low ROI, high cost for average education), just for the cultural reasons.

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

I know, and I went to UT and I hate RGIII. Go figure.

[Samson's Wig 3192]

58 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Yeah, and fuck Baylor, too.  But my daughter is a gay liberal, so is wise enough to avoid a school like Baylor. 

We already know. You mentioned Smith was on her list. 

[mchookem 16336]

46 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

One of my friends at work went to Oregon and loved it.

That said, Baylor is one of the few schools on the list that I'll actually pay for and allow that is a bad deal on paper (low ROI, high cost for average education), just for the cultural reasons. YMMV

 

[Samson's Wig 3192]

50 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

One of my friends at work went to Oregon and loved it.

That said, Baylor is one of the few schools on the list that I'll actually pay for and allow that is a bad deal on paper (low ROI, high cost for average education), just for the cultural reasons. YMMV

Curious as to what cultural reasons on that campus could possibly come out on the positive side of the ledger.  Have they not demonstrated repeatedly that they can't manage their own house?

[CHIEF 5089]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

 

No shit.  Did you rent him a house in Highland Park?

UTD is expensive as fuck for a public university. More expensive than UT-Austin. I remember we paid for the full academic year, up front. It was over $33k. That was before books. They rape you on rent, and the half ass food plan. Only thing he ever ate was personal pan pizzas. The extra $4k or so was grabbing something different to eat, and entertainment. It's a big commuter campus, and they roll the sidewalks up at night. Indoor go-cart racing gets expensive.

CHIEF

[South Austin 52511]

5 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

We already know. You mentioned Smith was on her list. 

Yeah.  Aside from the gay thing, I've tried to explain to her that rich boarding school girls likely aren't her people.

[Samson's Wig 3192]

1 minute ago, CHIEF said:

UTD is expensive as fuck for a public university. More expensive than UT-Austin. I remember we paid for the full academic year, up front. It was over $33k. That was before books. They rape you on rent, and the half ass food plan. Only thing he ever ate was personal pan pizzas. The extra $4k or so was grabbing something different to eat, and entertainment. It's a big commuter campus, and they roll the sidewalks up at night. Indoor go-cart racing gets expensive.

CHIEF

Wow.  Did not know this, but will be scratching that school off any potential lists for the kids.  ROI indeed.

[DaysOff 7951]

Curious as to what cultural reasons on that campus could possibly come out on the positive side of the ledger.  Have they not demonstrated repeatedly that they can't manage their own house?

Rape?

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 minute ago, Samson's Wig said:

Curious as to what cultural reasons on that campus could possibly come out on the positive side of the ledger.  Have they not demonstrated repeatedly that they can't manage their own house?

Close family is a regent and we jibe with the mission and vision in 2023 so I'll just leave it at that as anything else might take us away from point of the thread.

To bring us back on point-- did anyone have any kids do dual credit to the point of having the first 2 years of college knocked out by time they graduated highschool? That seems like the best ROI bang for the buck.

[Js1 85346]

6 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

Curious as to what cultural reasons on that campus could possibly come out on the positive side of the ledger.  Have they not demonstrated repeatedly that they can't manage their own house?

[South Austin 52511]

Any day now, Waco.

[Js1 85346]

4 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Close family is a regent and we jibe with the mission and vision in 2023 so I'll just leave it at that as anything else might take us away from point of the thread.

To bring us back on point-- did anyone have any kids do dual credit to the point of having the first 2 years of college knocked out by time they graduated highschool? That seems like the best ROI bang for the buck.

Between AP exams and some credit by exams in the summer, I think i knocked out all my liberal arts math requirements, half my foreign language, US History, Economics and US government.  It was like 18-21 credit hours before I even started my freshman year. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Js1

[South Austin 52511]

2 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

To bring us back on point-- did anyone have any kids do dual credit to the point of having the first 2 years of college knocked out by time they graduated highschool? That seems like the best ROI bang for the buck.

My daughter will have taken 7 AP courses by the time she graduates.  It's less than a year's worth of college credits, but that'll be nice.

[CHIEF 5089]

4 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Close family is a regent and we jibe with the mission and vision in 2023 so I'll just leave it at that as anything else might take us away from point of the thread.

To bring us back on point-- did anyone have any kids do dual credit to the point of having the first 2 years of college knocked out by time they graduated highschool? That seems like the best ROI bang for the buck.

My kid CLEPed out of English, but didn't do much dual credit in high school. They didn't have high school teachers, at his school to teach mid-level STEM college curriculum. Dual credit seems to be the most bang for the buck, followed by junior or community colleges for the first 76 hours, and finish out at a four year university. The tuition at Hill College wasn't really any more expensive than McLennan Community College was for me, almost 30 years ago.

CHIEF

 

[fattyflattie 4639]

52 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Between AP exams and some credit by exams in the summer, I think i knocked out all my liberal arts math requirements, half my foreign language, US History, Economics and US government.  It was like 18-21 credit hours before I even started my freshman year. 

Pretty much same except for the foreign language.  But I had a hell of a good start. 

[Nivek 16933]

6 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Obligatory

because while pre-tokugawa Japanese history did nothing for my career, it made life more interesting and helped me understand a little bit of history.  And looking at rocks in thin-section helped me understand rock formations in greater detail and I tried not to laugh when engineers told me their frac model assumed homogenous isotropic rock.   

[Pescado_Rojo 19416]

4 hours ago, CHIEF said:

CHIEF Jr. started out at UTD, my wife and I and my parents paid for that first academic year, it was about $40k for tuition, room, and board. We discussed loans after that. He decided to move back home and pay $800/semester to finish his first 76 hours at Hill College in Cleburne. Totally his decision. He was set to go back to UTD, he had been recruited hard by the Dean of Engineering at Tarleton (his best friend's uncle), but they didn't have an ABET certification at the time, as it was a new program. In his year at Hill College  they received their certification. He decided to live at home and commute. The tuition is about $10k a year, we required him to go to college, so we are paying it. He will graduate with no student debt. All of this based on his decisions.

The Tarleton Engineering school received a grant from FMC, in Stephenville, to have the engineer students work on automating their oilfield o-ring machining. They are working with big boy pressures (50-100k psi). Most of these are $200+ o-rings. They vary in size from 4" diameter to 48" in diameter. It is considered their "capstone" project. Per spec, they pump a 15% overage into their o-ring molds. They have one guy, been with them for 30 years, that trims the excess rubber from the o-rings. He is nearing retirement, and stupidly they have no one else ready to take over. So the engineering students have been tasked with automating his position. The first thing CHIEF Jr. does is go and buy a copper/pvc deburring pen for $8.97, it is dummy proof. His idea was to let the QC guys trim it while inspecting it. Problem solved.

I guess the company gave too large of a grant to use this practical solution, they would rather spend $250k to have a machine do it, even though they are paying the QC folks to look it over.

As DalTxHornFan said, "salesmen make the World go round." I have been searching ME jobs, and the highest projected income is from a Sales Engineering job. Figuring out customer's automation needs, and designing or using your companies existing products to create a solution. CHIEF Jr. can sell an eskimo an ice maker, he worked me over enough to buy a $30k Polaris Ranger (you can use it for hunting, showing property, putting out signs, etc.). I think that Sales Engineering will be his calling. He also wants to travel, a career in sales will offer that opportunity.

CHIEF

 

I was an SE in tech for about 10 years, and most of the good SEs I worked with...especially in more specialized roles...came from industry. Their path was usually college grad>job in industry for several years>Sales Engineer in that industry. A lot of good, vertical specific sales guys had similar paths. Grad>Industry job>Industry management job> Sales in that industry. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Yep. Swayze household rules:

No aggy (if they want to be a vet, UC)
No Baylor

If they don’t like those rules, they can always go back to school in Brazil.

I’d much rather they go to A&M than Baylor. I won’t let my 15/11 yo daughters set foot on Baylor’s campus. 

[CHIEF 5089]

12 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I was an SE in tech for about 10 years, and most of the good SEs I worked with...especially in more specialized roles...came from industry. Their path was usually college grad>job in industry for several years>Sales Engineer in that industry. A lot of good, vertical specific sales guys had similar paths. Grad>Industry job>Industry management job> Sales in that industry. 

I have seen several entry level jobs that look like they fast track you into an SE job as an assistant, still pretty decent money. Low tech stuff, security, audio/video, dust and contaminant control positions, will let you be a SE after a short training period on what they offer. It just doesn't have the kind of travel he is wanting. I agree, he needs to get some industry experience in the field he is interested in. He came in a few minutes ago and we talked about it. He then went into a diatribe about maybe going back to get his Masters, I just shook my head. He needs to go to work, and let his company pay for it.

CHIEF

[TwiceHorn 31483]

4 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

Close family is a regent and we jibe with the mission and vision in 2023 so I'll just leave it at that as anything else might take us away from point of the thread.

To bring us back on point-- did anyone have any kids do dual credit to the point of having the first 2 years of college knocked out by time they graduated highschool? That seems like the best ROI bang for the buck.

Surely you know this, but while Baylor positions itself as a Christian school with mission statements and vision etc., it is possibly, in reality, more depraved than UT.

I heard stories from Baylor that would make SAEs and KAs and even Phi Delts blush.  And I think it's the previously sheltered kids that are at the heart of it.  See Porterhouse, above.  Don't bet that your "good kids" are going to stay that way at Baylor any more than UT or anywhere else.

Edited February 2, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[rage-a-holic 4401]

8 hours ago, CHIEF said:

CHIEF Jr. started out at UTD, my wife and I and my parents paid for that first academic year, it was about $40k for tuition, room, and board. We discussed loans after that. He decided to move back home and pay $800/semester to finish his first 76 hours at Hill College in Cleburne. Totally his decision. He was set to go back to UTD, he had been recruited hard by the Dean of Engineering at Tarleton (his best friend's uncle), but they didn't have an ABET certification at the time, as it was a new program. In his year at Hill College  they received their certification. He decided to live at home and commute. The tuition is about $10k a year, we required him to go to college, so we are paying it. He will graduate with no student debt. All of this based on his decisions.

My nephew had an engineering scholarship to UTD 4 years ago. Hated the classes and commuter atmosphere. Dropped out after 1 semester and became an electricians apprentice.

A year later he was making as much as I did when I was 30.

[safe sex 11735]

It's all about what your actions look like on the surface, not the underlying rot.

[SHOOTER12 8810]

On 1/31/2023 at 3:34 PM, RDCanecutter said:

I find that if a Gentleman can ride, fence, and shoot, then excessive education is not required.

But can can they use punctuation and capitalization where needed? If not, screw them and give them a shovel.  The world needs ditch diggers too.

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

7 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

WTF???

No shit.  I'm in full ass panic mode if UTD is $40k a year.