Rodney Terry

[UTEE97 3512]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

I don't either.  Even if he wins the sweet 16 and this conference, I think we could still do better.  BUT, when was the last time we did both of those?  With Rick, Smart and Chris?  What's our rebuttal when we're challenged with "why did you let Rodney go when he won the title in the best conference and made the sweet 16?"  Is it "we deserve the best?"  Rodney will have done what nobody has done in 20 years?  It would be hard to argue against his case if you're presenting Tang and Oats. 

Fans have recency bias, and so do ADs to some extent. They are willing to overlook the past performance of a coach who is winning "now." This is why I have mixed feelings about this season. I am happy that we are doing well, but I am also afraid the result of this season will lead us to hiring a coach who will be mediocre in coming years.

Edited February 6, 2023 by UTEE97

[hobbes2702 13029]

Fuck mixed feelings.

I hope Terry wins every game he coaches this season.

I hope Lloyd or Muss is our coach next season.

[jimmyjazz 45887]

Derka said it pages ago -- if RT were still at UTEP, nobody would mention his name as a possible candidate.  Fair or not, his record as a (hired) D1 head coach is the definition of mediocre.  Could that be because Fresno State and UTEP lack the resources to excel?  Well, maybe, but it's not like they face a murderer's row on the court, either. 

I think it's fair to expect a G5 coach to have achieved a high winning % over multiple seasons in order to receive attention from a P5 program like Texas.  Factor in the very obvious maturity of this team that is about to evaporate next year . . . no thanks.

[hobbes2702 13029]

On 2/5/2023 at 10:48 AM, UTEE97 said:

Have you heard him talk in interviews or locker room, and if you did, did you feel like he was communicating well? I mean the HC is usually a top salesman in the program. He needs to sell his ideas to every stakeholders. That's why Beard was so successful.

[n64ra 1080]

I'm loving RT this year.

[shadow_operative 15932]

55 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I don't either.  Even if he wins the sweet 16 and this conference, I think we could still do better.  BUT, when was the last time we did both of those?  With Rick, Smart and Chris?  What's our rebuttal when we're challenged with "why did you let Rodney go when he won the title in the best conference and made the sweet 16?"  Is it "we deserve the best?"  Rodney will have done what nobody has done in 20 years?  It would be hard to argue against his case if you're presenting Tang and Oats. 

how much of our success this year is because of RT, and how much if it is because of this senior-laden roster who all returned together as a player-led team to try and win a national title? this team was on the very short list of national title favorites when beard got himself canned. RT "leading" this team to the Sweet 16 is not the achievement you seem to think it is, both in terms of actual success as well as how much of it is due to Rodney Terry's coaching and leadership. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by shadow_operative

[Valmy77 13225]

37 minutes ago, UTEE97 said:

Fans have recency bias, and so do ADs to some extent. They are willing to overlook the past performance of a coach who is winning "now." This is why I have mixed feelings about this season. I am happy that we are doing well, but I am also afraid the result of this season will lead to us to hiring a coach who would be mediocre in coming years.

If that is how it goes, I just have to hope whatever we accomplish this season will be so awesome it will all have been worth it.

[KingBobo81 534]

It's fine to not want Terry to be the coach next season but I don't understand the mixed feelings part. This group has the ability to go further than any squad we have had in 15 years. I'd rather see this team have tremendous success with Terry possibly being given the gig as a result than fucking crashing and burning and hoping the next guy can get us there.

[Chad 1728]

1 minute ago, KingBobo81 said:

It's fine to not want Terry to be the coach next season but I don't understand the mixed feelings part. This group has the ability to go further than any squad we have had in 15 years. I'd rather see this team have tremendous success with Terry possibly being given the gig as a result than fucking crashing and burning and hoping the next guy can get us there.

Crash and burn the official slogan of Texas Basketball during the Shaka years.

[Js1 85275]

1 minute ago, Chad said:

Crash and burn the official slogan of Texas Basketball during the Shaka years.

2009-2010 Texas says hi. 17-0 and #1 to 24-10 with a first round loss. THAT was crash and burn 

[Chad 1728]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

2009-2010 Texas says hi. 17-0 and #1 to 24-10 with a first round loss. THAT was crash and burn 

I still have that agonizing loss to #14 seeded Abilene Christian etched into my brain because it happened very recently.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Chad

[closetohumping 17434]

29 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Derka said it pages ago -- if RT were still at UTEP, nobody would mention his name as a possible candidate.  Fair or not, his record as a (hired) D1 head coach is the definition of mediocre.  Could that be because Fresno State and UTEP lack the resources to excel?  Well, maybe, but it's not like they face a murderer's row on the court, either. 

I think it's fair to expect a G5 coach to have achieved a high winning % over multiple seasons in order to receive attention from a P5 program like Texas.  Factor in the very obvious maturity of this team that is about to evaporate next year . . . no thanks.

But he's not at UTEP.  He's here.  And he's winning.  This is the best conference in the country and the best Big 12 in recent years.  

24 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

how much of our success this year is because of RT, and how much if it is because of this senior-laden roster who all returned together as a player-led team to try and win a national title? this team was on the very short list of national title favorites when beard got himself canned. RT "leading" this team to the Sweet 16 is not the achievement you seem to think it is, both in terms of actual success as well as how much of it is due to Rodney Terry's coaching and leadership. 

Sure, but that's not going to resonate with the media.  "He's winning with Chris's players and they're all seniors.  Don't want to take a chance with how he does with his own players.  We're Texas, we deserve better."  We will get roasted.  Get ready.  And like it or not, his race will come up.  

[shadow_operative 15932]

10 minutes ago, KingBobo81 said:

It's fine to not want Terry to be the coach next season but I don't understand the mixed feelings part. This group has the ability to go further than any squad we have had in 15 years. I'd rather see this team have tremendous success with Terry possibly being given the gig as a result than fucking crashing and burning and hoping the next guy can get us there.

yeah i've got no mixed feelings, as i'm working under the assumption that CDC's POV is more in line with my posts than those who think we "have" to keep him if we make the S16. i feel certain that CDC is already working behind the scenes to identify and quietly reach out to multiple candidates to gauge interest and get the ball rolling. CDC knows what he's doing, and he knows how much of this team's success comes from chris beard and the outstanding roster he assembled. he knows that Rodney Terry is a great guy to have on staff, but he's not HC material at Texas. i want to win every game and every postseason tourney possible. if we do so well that CDC retains RT, then well: 

 

[UTEE97 3512]

37 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

If that is how it goes, I just have to hope whatever we accomplish this season will be so awesome it will all have been worth it.

That's exactly how I feel! Let's make this season so memorable that it would be worth living with few mediocre years.

I see some similarities with Coach Orgeron at USC in 2013. When he took over as the interim coach, he did reasonably well to possibly deserve the permanent gig, but to most people's surprise he didn't get the job.

Edited February 6, 2023 by UTEE97

[jimmyjazz 45887]

20 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Sure, but that's not going to resonate with the media.  "He's winning with Chris's players and they're all seniors.  Don't want to take a chance with how he does with his own players.  We're Texas, we deserve better."  We will get roasted.  Get ready.  And like it or not, his race will come up.  

It's virtually impossible to litigate stupid takes via the media, but anybody bringing up race at a school that recently hired Charlie Strong and Shaka Smart is an idiot.

[ruitxn 296]

The dye for this year has already been cast and I hope the team and Coach Terry takes it far as it can.  The dye has not been cast yet for the future of Horn basketball. I feel our future success is dependent on top tier coaching and top tier recruiting.  Coach Terry has to put his resume against other coaches who will be interested in what I feel like is an emerging program.  I’m hoping the best coach will rise to the top and be hired.

[closetohumping 17434]

17 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's virtually impossible to litigate stupid takes via the media, but anybody bringing up race at a school that recently hired Charlie Strong and Shaka Smart is an idiot.

And they'll mention we cut Charlie too soon and Shaka wasn't given a fair Shaka,  I mean shake.

[jimmyjazz 45887]

[Hookem2147 21194]

Just enjoy the ride boys. No reason to ride the rollercoaster of the game-to-game results and what it did or didn't mean for the coaching search.

These things always work themselves out. I keep reminding myself of that.

[SarkAfterDark 1688]

1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

how much of our success this year is because of RT, and how much if it is because of this senior-laden roster who all returned together as a player-led team to try and win a national title? this team was on the very short list of national title favorites when beard got himself canned. RT "leading" this team to the Sweet 16 is not the achievement you seem to think it is, both in terms of actual success as well as how much of it is due to Rodney Terry's coaching and leadership. 

Would you have this same take in evaluating Beard's performance if he was still the coach? Would Beard be on your hot seat if we didn't win a championship this year? Terry can only play the hand he is dealt, I don't understand handicapping his performance this far into the future. We haven't been to the Sweet 16 in almost two decades, what school would get rid of their coach for achieving that feat?

[Rickylovesweed 14262]

3 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Would you have this same take in evaluating Beard's performance if he was still the coach? Would Beard be on your hot seat if we didn't win a championship this year? Terry can only play the hand he is dealt, I don't understand handicapping his performance this far into the future. We haven't been to the Sweet 16 in almost two decades, what school would get rid of their coach for achieving that feat?

I don't have a problem with anything Derka said. College sports are 90% about roster building with talent and experience. 

Sure, getting to the Sweet 16 is an achievement but it's primarily driven by the fact that Beard is exceptional at building rosters from the portal and recruiting. If Terry was accomplishing this with his own roster you would have an argument. 

 

[Pancho 44707]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

And they'll mention we cut Charlie too soon and Shaka wasn't given a fair Shaka,  I mean shake.

 

No they won't. Stop with this shit. 

[SarkAfterDark 1688]

15 minutes ago, Rickylovesweed said:

I don't have a problem with anything Derka said. College sports are 90% about roster building with talent and experience. 

Sure, getting to the Sweet 16 is an achievement but it's primarily driven by the fact that Beard is exceptional at building rosters from the portal and recruiting. If Terry was accomplishing this with his own roster you would have an argument. 

 

How do we know Terry wouldn't be able to roster build here at Texas without even giving him one year to do so? Did Beard already have guys lined up to replace all the experience we were losing this year that are now bailing?

[ChickenSandwich 9826]

17 hours ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Would you have this same take in evaluating Beard's performance if he was still the coach? Would Beard be on your hot seat if we didn't win a championship this year? Terry can only play the hand he is dealt, I don't understand handicapping his performance this far into the future. We haven't been to the Sweet 16 in almost two decades, what school would get rid of their coach for achieving that feat?

IMO its 70/30 Jimmys and Joes vs Xs and Os.

He’s killing it on the 30%, but he has debatable responsibility for the Joes (great recruiter recruiting for a hot head coach). My unknown is what happens next when 80% of this team is gone next year. Holding on to Beard’s recruits this year is a good start but will he be able to attract the talent needed long term as the head coach?
 

It’s a fair question.
 

I agree that holding him to a championship standard that you wouldn't hold Beard to is dumb…But, I don’t think that is the proper reading of the situation. Wins in the tournament force the school’s hand but are not a declaration of worthiness for the job. 
 

Final 4 etc?  Can’t fire him.
 

Second weekend?  Debatable either way (how the season ends matters here too).

 
One and done?  The door is open to fire with no bad optics. 

I have no idea if RT has the ability to create a roster like this in the future, but wouldn’t want to bet the next 5 years on it. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by ChickenSandwich

[Rickylovesweed 14262]

1 minute ago, SarkAfterDark said:

How do we know Terry wouldn't be able to roster build here at Texas without even giving him one year to do so? Did Beard already have guys lined up to replace all the experience we were losing this year that are now bailing?

It's almost like that's why Texas should hire a coach with experience building rosters at a school like Texas instead of just praying that Terry can do it. 

[SarkAfterDark 1688]

Just now, Rickylovesweed said:

It's almost like that's why Texas should hire a coach with experience building rosters at a school like Texas instead of just praying that Terry can do it. 

I don't think its a prayer, I think you'd find out rather quickly if Terry could do so or not. I don't think anyone is suggesting we lock Terry up long term based on this year. But the unrealistic expectations some of you are setting for him to get the interim tag removed is asinine. Terry bleeds burnt orange and in my personal opinion at least deserves another year to prove if he can hack it at this job if he takes this team to the second weekend. 

[jimmyjazz 45887]

I think the optics of a short contract would almost be worse than the optics of cutting him loose.

[realgreggym 835]

2 hours ago, UTEE97 said:

Fans have recency bias, and so do ADs to some extent. They are willing to overlook the past performance of a coach who is winning "now." This is why I have mixed feelings about this season. I am happy that we are doing well, but I am also afraid the result of this season will lead us to hiring a coach who will be mediocre in coming years.

Some of us are more than fans and some of us have been following Texas hoops longer than many posters will be alive. You have no clue and neither do I or any poster about what the future brings if Coach Terry is our coach next year. The kids are responding to him and that's all that matters.

Duke fans and alums wanted Coach K gone the first 3 years that he was at Duke. Fortunately, their AD didn't pay attention to them.

[Pancho 44707]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I think the optics of a short contract would almost be worse than the optics of cutting him loose.

Correct. 

If you hire Terry, you'll give him a standard contract (4-5 years), he won't be paid very much (prob the lowest in the conference), and the buyout will be extremely low. That's the key to giving Terry the permanent gig.

[Rickylovesweed 14262]

15 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

I don't think its a prayer, I think you'd find out rather quickly if Terry could do so or not. 

The "we should give Terry a year or 2 to prove he can build a roster" is not convincing. 

This is Texas. Not a school where coaches prove they can build a roster and learn on the job. 

 

[Rickylovesweed 14262]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

And they'll mention we cut Charlie too soon and Shaka wasn't given a fair Shaka,  I mean shake.

I don't think Del Conte gives a shit. He's received criticism for hiring all male coaches in the women's sports yet he keeps doing it. 

All that matters is winning and that's why Del Conte continues to hire male coaches that win. 

[Pancho 44707]

18 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

I don't think its a prayer, I think you'd find out rather quickly if Terry could do so or not. I don't think anyone is suggesting we lock Terry up long term based on this year. But the unrealistic expectations some of you are setting for him to get the interim tag removed is asinine. Terry bleeds burnt orange and in my personal opinion at least deserves another year to prove if he can hack it at this job if he takes this team to the second weekend. 

 

You don't give coaches a 1-year contract. You cannot have him be interim for one year. That's not a thing. 

Assistants would leave, and none would come here. Recruits would bail. The portal would be useless.

 

Yall need to stop with this horseshit idea of "give him 1 more year as interim" because you're showing your idiocy. You wouldn't want this in football so why are yall suggesting it for basketball?

[shadow_operative 15932]

51 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Would you have this same take in evaluating Beard's performance if he was still the coach? Would Beard be on your hot seat if we didn't win a championship this year? 

[shadow_operative 15932]

remember that year where dick tomey or someone like that was brought back to the football program as some special analyst or something, and then the defense got better? i don't read the football board very often, so i have to ask: did a bunch of our fans start clamoring for Tomey to be our next HC? suggest we give him a one year contract/trial year? i have to imagine the answer is no, but with so many here arguing that rodney has earned the job i have to ask. 

[SarkAfterDark 1688]

8 minutes ago, Rickylovesweed said:

The "we should give Terry a year or 2 to prove he can build a roster" is not convincing. 

This is Texas. Not a school where coaches prove they can build a roster and learn on the job. 

 

Is there some rich basketball tradition at Texas in the last 20 years that I am unaware of? What exactly is "This is Texas" supposed to mean here?

4 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

You don't give coaches a 1-year contract. You cannot have him be interim for one year. That's not a thing. 

Assistants would leave, and none would come here. Recruits would bail. The portal would be useless.

 

Yall need to stop with this horseshit idea of "give him 1 more year as interim" because you're showing your idiocy. You wouldn't want this in football so why are yall suggesting it for basketball?

I am not opining for him to be given a one year contract or return as interim coach for one year. You give him a 3-4 multi-year contract with a small buyout(show and prove). Terry loves this school, and I am sure he understands the current position he and the school is in. I don't think he would command much and would relish the opportunity to prove he is up for this job. If he fails we can cut bait. 

[Rickylovesweed 14262]

3 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Is there some rich basketball tradition at Texas in the last 20 years that I am unaware of? What exactly is "This is Texas" supposed to mean here?

 

They just hired Chris Beard who was widely considered a top 10 coach. Ya know, Texas should probably try to do the same thing this time instead of praying Terry can build a roster. 

[Pancho 44707]

12 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

I am not opining for him to be given a one year contract or return as interim coach for one year. You give him a 3-4 multi-year contract with a small buyout(show and prove). Terry loves this school, and I am sure he understands the current position he and the school is in. I don't think he would command much and would relish the opportunity to prove he is up for this job. If he fails we can cut bait. 

 

Then we agree there. 

However, the whining about how that must be done now is idiotic. Let the season play out. And yes, if Muss wants the job over Terry, then you have to go Muss. 

It seems a lot of you want to gamble with Terry because he's nice and is doing a good job and because Texas basketball doesn't have the most successful history so why not!?!?!? But you wouldn't dare do the same for Texas baseball or football. 

That is so fucking dumb. 

[jimmyjazz 45887]

All 3 of our prior head coaching hires had reached the 2nd weekend of the tournament in their prior gigs, and in Shaka's case, the Final 4.

If you want to make the argument that should RT make the 2nd weekend that would be "the same", go ahead I suppose, but it really isn't.  It's not his team.  He didn't build the roster, he didn't identify a style of play he thought would be optimal for late season success (although he sure is changing it), and he's never come close to the head coaching success of Penders, Barnes, or Smart.

Dammit, Beard.

[Hookem2147 21194]

Let's play the hypothetical game:

Let's say Holland and Johnson are tied at the hip with Terry, so if he stays they stay and if he goes they go, does that change your opinion at all on either side? 

My opinion is that it doesn't move the needle for me at all either way because I try to look at things long term, but I could see how some could be influenced the other way because part of "building the roster" is recruiting high level five star players and Holland and Johnson would be a damn good start.

[shadow_operative 15932]

Coach K has been grooming John Scheyer for years, and left him with a a shred recruiting class that included 3 of the top 4 and 5 of the top 27 players in the country, and check out how Duke is looking right now.

it continues to just blow my mind that so many of our fans here think that RT deserves the Texas job based on like five weeks of good basketball with a team that was a national title favorite when he took over as HC, forgetting that the rest of his 27 years as a D-1 coach all point to him being nowhere near the level of coach we should be considering for this job. it's just crazy. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

14 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Let's play the hypothetical game:

Let's say Holland and Johnson are tied at the hip with Terry, so if he stays they stay and if he goes they go, does that change your opinion at all on either side? 

if losing RT means losing those recruits then so be it. i'll take eric musselman and whoever he brings in going forward uber rodney terry + holland and johnson. 

[Valmy77 13225]

3 hours ago, Js1 said:

2009-2010 Texas says hi. 17-0 and #1 to 24-10 with a first round loss. THAT was crash and burn 

Yeah what the hell happened there anyway? We didn't even have Mike Wacker's knee to blame.

[closetohumping 17434]

1 hour ago, Rickylovesweed said:

The "we should give Terry a year or 2 to prove he can build a roster" is not convincing. 

This is Texas. Not a school where coaches prove they can build a roster and learn on the job. 

 

As of right now, he’s not only learning on the job he’s actually winning. 

[Rickylovesweed 14262]

21 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

As of right now, he’s not only learning on the job he’s actually winning. 

It's in reference to roster building. He's winning with Beard's roster. That's the point. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

right about now i want to nominate timmy allen to be our next coach. 👀 

[Loop 1604 227]

88 points given up? Throwback to 1990s games.

Worrisome trend imo.

[SL Xpress 7513]

18 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Yeah what the hell happened there anyway? We didn't even have Mike Wacker's knee to blame.

Barnes' typical team building strategy was to tear a team down in terms of individuals and team play, especially over the break, and then build them back up again. In his last 4 years at Texas the teams didn't build back real well. Some of the same things have happened at Tennessee, too. But that 2009-2010 team was the worst example of it. 

[Valmy77 13225]

14 hours ago, Loop 1604 said:

88 points given up? Throwback to 1990s games.

Worrisome trend imo.

We lost a game! DOOOOOOMED!

 

[HtownHorn 14663]

23 hours ago, closetohumping said:

I don't either.  Even if he wins the sweet 16 and this conference, I think we could still do better.  BUT, when was the last time we did both of those?  With Rick, Smart and Chris?  What's our rebuttal when we're challenged with "why did you let Rodney go when he won the title in the best conference and made the sweet 16?"  Is it "we deserve the best?"  Rodney will have done what nobody has done in 20 years?  It would be hard to argue against his case if you're presenting Tang and Oats. 

The correct answer is never in the same season. So yes, let's get rid of the only coach in our history to do it.

Individually, 1999 was the last time Texas won the conference out right, and 2008 was the last time we played in the S16.

Edited February 7, 2023 by HtownHorn

[HtownHorn 14663]

18 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Yeah what the hell happened there anyway? We didn't even have Mike Wacker's knee to blame.

We lost our top 3 PGs.