The Business of Hollywood & Streaming

[ChickenSandwich 9768]

29 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

This is an example of why we created antitrust legislation century ago. The streaming model is sometimes rigged to make revenue sharing difficult. The actual value of shows are hidden or impossible to calculate. And because the streaming services produce the content, they are both buyer and seller.

Streaming also may not be profitable but it’s perceived as valuable by stock holders and venture capitalists. And they will be perceived as even more valuable if they can decrease their talent costs.

The other extreme would be to create streaming only content (not licensed out to other platforms), that pays residuals in perpetuity (per view), would be guaranteed to lose money if given enough time. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by ChickenSandwich

[Queen Bitch 1692]

Rumors on the line are WILD today. Everyone saying it’s a done deal, heard from a friend in the room or a high-places senior exec, blah blah. Hell, our waiter at Swingers just said she heard it’s over. 
 

We’ll see….

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Queen Bitch

[KCMasterpieceof 24]

32 minutes ago, Queen Bitch said:

Rumors on the line are WILD today. Everyone saying it’s a done deal, heard from a friend in the room or a high-places senior exec, blah blah. Hell, our waiter at Swingers just said she heard it’s over. 
 

We’ll see….

 

We're rooting for you!

[Queen Bitch 1692]

Hearing it’s imminent.

[henrygandorf 28888]

hearing it 3 days in a row makes me less comfortable. 

[WBT 20278]

On 9/21/2023 at 1:01 PM, ChickenSandwich said:

The other extreme would be to create streaming only content (not licensed out to other platforms), that pays residuals in perpetuity (per view), would be guaranteed to lose money if given enough time. 

not if you're charging enough per view

[billfromlaketravis 11291]

Has ABC revealed what kind of numbers on the double MNF broadcasts? I’d imagine that’ll stick around after the strike. 
 

NBC has Sunday Night Football. That’s 18 weeks out of the year 2 of the 4 networks don’t need scripted TV. 

[henrygandorf 28888]

4 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Has ABC revealed what kind of numbers on the double MNF broadcasts? I’d imagine that’ll stick around after the strike. 
 

NBC has Sunday Night Football. That’s 18 weeks out of the year 2 of the 4 networks don’t need scripted TV. 

that's 18 weeks - one night a week, for 2 networks.  broadcast networks are struggling to fill those slots and would still be even with football on 2-3 nights. 

have you seen what thursday night looks like on nbc the past couple years?  40 years of the best comedies of all time, and now it's law and order shows for 3 hours.  another night is all shows based in chicago (chicago fire, etc).  cbs is all procedural spinoffs.  abc seems like mostly reality (idol, dwts, bachelor).  sunday night on fox has animation, which is not affected by the strike. 

each network has ~one night with any type of comedy.  pickings are slim for quality content.

[billfromlaketravis 11291]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

that's 18 weeks - one night a week, for 2 networks.  broadcast networks are struggling to fill those slots and would still be even with football on 2-3 nights. 

have you seen what thursday night looks like on nbc the past couple years?  40 years of the best comedies of all time, and now it's law and order shows for 3 hours.  another night is all shows based in chicago (chicago fire, etc).  cbs is all procedural spinoffs.  abc seems like mostly reality (idol, dwts, bachelor).  sunday night on fox has animation, which is not affected by the strike. 

each network has ~one night with any type of comedy.  pickings are slim for quality content.

Yikes. I’d say the last good to great network sitcom was AP Bio and well, we know the story there. 

[henrygandorf 28888]

 

[Queen Bitch 1692]

Strike captains are PARTYING tonight. D-day vibes. Every good bar in town is wild. What’s the word for “blackout but much stronger”????

UNION GODDAMN STRONG. SOLIDARITY FOREVER AND EVER, Y’ALL!!!!!!!

[RPM 26097]

Does this mean Colbert will be back?

[naija 2804]

great timing for Drew Barrymore

[mdmost 42490]

I need the SAG strike to end so SNL can return and we get a nice sendup of Drew Barrymore from Chloe Fineman. 

[billfromlaketravis 11291]

22 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I need the SAG strike to end so SNL can return and we get a nice sendup of Drew Barrymore from Chloe Fineman. 

Allegedly Barrymore’s non-writing staff begged her to go back and she gave in for a time. But yes, she needs to get got. 

[FunDip 33]

When are the details expected to be out on the deal?

[Chopper 16666]

6 hours ago, FunDip said:

When are the details expected to be out on the deal?

This is a handy summary of the agreement side-by-side with the opening asks by the WGA and the studios.

https://www.wgacontract2023.org/wgacontract/files/wga-negotiations-tentative-agreement.pdf

[Michael Knight 12725]

 

 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5722]

On 9/24/2023 at 10:00 PM, Queen Bitch said:

Strike captains are PARTYING tonight. D-day vibes. Every good bar in town is wild. What’s the word for “blackout but much stronger”????

UNION GODDAMN STRONG. SOLIDARITY FOREVER AND EVER, Y’ALL!!!!!!!

Get yo ass a michelada to help with the hangover. Hey, we have power in numbers, fuck them 

[Captain Ron 12722]

A lot of this sounds like a great win for the writers- I do have one question for those in the industry - does the short length of the new deal worry anyone? Is there fear that 3 years will go by quickly and that at the end of that time the studios might decide the deal wasn't good and would lock out the writers?

[Biff Tannen 45212]

This seems like a healthy negotiation, no?

 

Quote

WGA PROPOSALS (as of 5/1/2023)       AMPTP OFFERS (as of 5/1/2023)                        TENTATIVE AGREEMENT (9/25/2023)

 

 

ESTIMATED VALUE OF DEAL

$429 million/year                                             $86 million/year                                                          $233 million/year

 

[cactusflinthead 27232]

Did I miss this in here too?

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13317]

4 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

A lot of this sounds like a great win for the writers- I do have one question for those in the industry - does the short length of the new deal worry anyone? Is there fear that 3 years will go by quickly and that at the end of that time the studios might decide the deal wasn't good and would lock out the writers?

Not working for 6 months to get a 3 year deal would seem like they need a ~20% raise over the 3 years to break even. Not too mention how many writers are not starting back because their projects were cancelled or postponed even after the deal is ratified. But I understand the narrative that both sides want the WGA to claim victory.

In my opinion the strike hurt the writers and the industry but I don’t know if the alternative was better.

[RPM 26097]

Just watched a JKL spot for new eps starting Monday.

[Queen Bitch 1692]

It’s always a three year deal. Just how it works.

[billfromlaketravis 11291]

Sounds like the studios and SAG have a tentative deal. 
 

Thanks for pushing Dune II back 6 months for no GD reason. 

[billfromlaketravis 11291]

1 minute ago, BeardIP said:

So to recap: both strikes are over, both got good new deals, paramount+ is killing it, netflix is killing it and the summer box office season was a success and fun? Sounds like things are looking up!

Not to derail, but would you recommend reading the book or watching the movie?

I’m a big audiobook guy. I’d probably go audiobook, then Dune 2021, and Dune 1984. 2021 is a much better film, but I enjoy them both. 1984 does a good job of embracing the weird. 

[mdmost 42490]

Thank the Maker this shit is over. 

[Queen Bitch 1692]

So deeply proud of my sister union. They stood strong and got what they deserved. (Hopefully at least, no one has seen the deal.)  

Contracts for IATSE and Teamsters are up next summer, hopefully they get fair deals and we aren't doing this shit again in eight months

[WBT 20278]

Probably needs to cancel more expensive HBO shows

[Queen Bitch 1692]

lol at the dude who just went through the past few pages and negged my posts from the last few months — cool Thursday you’re having!!

[Stringer 1423]

lol at the dude who just went through the past few pages and negged my posts from the last few months — cool Thursday you’re having!!

Didn’t realize Bob Iger was a poster here.

Hi Bob!

[mdmost 42490]

WB reverses course and allows Coyote vs. Acme to be screened for purchase by another studio. What a shitfest at Warner Bros.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/coyote-vs-acme-wb-warners-canceled-reversal-shop-film-1235645372/

[henrygandorf 28888]

 

[UpperWestside 6032]

This is just cable TV all over again. I have Prime (Good for many other things so it’s worth it) and then Britbox, Acorn TV (More UK TV) and PBS Masterpiece (Again mostly British stuff). I will not go back down the cable route again and buy several other streaming services just to watch one show. I can get so much from those streaming services I have that I don’t care what else I do not get to see. 

[mdmost 42490]

12 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

 

I'm not quite sure what the complaint is here. In the past, you had to physically drive yourself, take a bus, or walk to the nearest home video rental store and hope the movie you wanted was in stock. If it wasn't, you just had to make do with something else. Or you had to wait on Netflix to physically mail you the DVD. Or you had to drive down to a store to buy the DVD and spend $20-$30 to do so. Is going to my Apple TV and typing the movie I want to rent into search that big a deal when it does everything for me? 

[bernorange 8341]

I found Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 on DVD at my local library, so this hits close to home.

[Biff Tannen 45212]

Everyone makes fun of me for my shelves of DVDs and Blu Rays, but when I want to watch something, there it is.  Even if the internet goes down.  I can still watch Band of Brothers or Little Big League or The Cell.

[kevwun 15336]

What I miss is having all of the shows I wanted to watch just appear on my DVR when they aired.  I had to start a list of shows to remember what I want to watch on what platform.  That is the most annoying aspect to me.

Edited November 15, 2023 by kevwun

[henrygandorf 28888]

3 hours ago, mdmost said:

I'm not quite sure what the complaint is here. In the past, you had to physically drive yourself, take a bus, or walk to the nearest home video rental store and hope the movie you wanted was in stock. If it wasn't, you just had to make do with something else. Or you had to wait on Netflix to physically mail you the DVD. Or you had to drive down to a store to buy the DVD and spend $20-$30 to do so. Is going to my Apple TV and typing the movie I want to rent into search that big a deal when it does everything for me? 

so you're saying it's better now than in the mid 90's?  well i would hope so. 

i think the bigger complaint here is that while some movies are hard to locate, others just aren't available anywhere for free.  and many of these were available weeks/months ago on a platform they pay for.  this is not a personal problem for me, because i've been using torrents for 20 years.  my nephew wanted to watch mad men, which went from netflix to prime to freevee to amc+ which i'm pretty sure is fake because nobody i know has it.  so i downloaded the entire series and wetransfer'd it to him, which he then downloaded and dumped onto a usb drive and put in the back of his tv.  the whole process took an hour.

i had hundreds of dvds, and most of which i did not pay $20-$30 for, but we no longer own a dvd player and i don't really miss those days.  i think the point is that when you pay for (or have access to) multiple streaming services, you expect to have everything at your fingertips.  at certain points this was the case, now, not so much.

 

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Everyone makes fun of me for my shelves of DVDs and Blu Rays, but when I want to watch something, there it is.  Even if the internet goes down.  I can still watch Band of Brothers or Little Big League or The Cell.

oh fuck yeah.

[mdmost 42490]

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

so you're saying it's better now than in the mid 90's?  well i would hope so. 

i think the bigger complaint here is that while some movies are hard to locate, others just aren't available anywhere for free.  and many of these were available weeks/months ago on a platform they pay for.  this is not a personal problem for me, because i've been using torrents for 20 years.  my nephew wanted to watch mad men, which went from netflix to prime to freevee to amc+ which i'm pretty sure is fake because nobody i know has it.  so i downloaded the entire series and wetransfer'd it to him, which he then downloaded and dumped onto a usb drive and put in the back of his tv.  the whole process took an hour.

i had hundreds of dvds, and most of which i did not pay $20-$30 for, but we no longer own a dvd player and i don't really miss those days.  i think the point is that when you pay for (or have access to) multiple streaming services, you expect to have everything at your fingertips.  at certain points this was the case, now, not so much.

 

oh fuck yeah.

Justwatch app is pretty easy for figuring out where everything is and on what service. TV series were always going to be an issue because of the way the rights change. Movies are a lot simpler other than if the movie isn't available. Apple TV makes it all pretty simple given iTunes usually has everything either for rent or purchase. Locally, you can run down to Half Priced Books and get pretty much anything you want for an affordable price on DVD. I just get tired of these, oh things were so much easier before all this like things are really that hard. We want everything at the push of a button which they pretty much delivered to us. You just have to figure out where it is and pay for it. 

[henrygandorf 28888]

4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Justwatch app is pretty easy for figuring out where everything is and on what service. TV series were always going to be an issue because of the way the rights change. Movies are a lot simpler other than if the movie isn't available. Apple TV makes it all pretty simple given iTunes usually has everything either for rent or purchase. Locally, you can run down to Half Priced Books and get pretty much anything you want for an affordable price on DVD. I just get tired of these, oh things were so much easier before all this like things are really that hard. We want everything at the push of a button which they pretty much delivered to us. You just have to figure out where it is and pay for it. 

i didn’t write the tweet, just thought it was funny. 

[mdmost 42490]

I aware you didn't write it. I found it annoying so I responded. 

[henrygandorf 28888]

7 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Serious question because I get that you are in the industry. Why do you think you don't have a more acute sense of honesty and integrity and obligation for paying for an artist, actor, writer, directors work? These are your people and, potentially and probably, you. Why go all-in using torrents and pirating stuff instead of paying into the ecosystem that ostensibly feeds you as well? I can see the laymen and disconnected to the Hollywood industry nobody having no moral qualms about it, but I would guess being inside the circle you'd feel differently, but that would be a wrong guess.

Not a moral attack, just genuinely curious.

i don't feel attacked, i think this is a fair question.

first off, i pay my fair share and then some.  i subscribe to everything, including a live/cable option (directv stream) which i know a lot of people have gone away from.  i go to movies in the theater, and have paid a premium for nice, la theaters since back when assigned seats were a new feature.  i also won't see a movie without popcorn and snacks, which i always purchase from concessions.  movies fuel the entire industry, and concessions fuel theaters, so $16 popcorn buckets don't bother me.

over the years, i have used torrents when it is necessary.  i don't download anything available on a mainstream platform like prime, netflix, hulu, peacock, apple, disney, and so forth.  i use it when a movie is unavailable and i'm trying to show it to someone who hasn't seen it (usually my wife).  keep in mind this is a film that i not only likely paid to see in a theater, but in many cases, have also previously purchased the dvd.  but like i said, we no longer own a dvd player and i have no idea where my old movies even are.

i also used to use torrents when i needed movies for travel before the days of being able to use a streaming platform on my laptop.  much easier to have a file than tote around a bunch of dvds, especially when you live on a bus.  though we did buy plenty of seasons of tv in their old school boxed sets, like the office, lost, 30 rock, etc.

but the biggest factor is whether i even have a choice with something i'm looking to watch.  in many cases, there are no other options.  i downloaded max dugan returns a couple months ago, which is available pretty much nowhere.  same with the color of money, and many other 70's/80's movies.  if they existed somewhere, i wouldn't need torrents. 

in the case of my nephew, he's not going to buy amc+, so this is a way to introduce him to "prestige" tv and what i believe is the greatest drama of all time.  with this experience, he will (hopefully) seek out other high-end productions, both tv and film, and that will affect his life, just as mine was affected as a teenager when i watched butch cassidy, jaws, the sting, the godfather, and all the president's men with my dad.  in turn, he will spend his money on things actually available to him and not relegated to a fringe (at best) streaming platform.  this is a situation where if not for me and wetransfer, he would simply go without.  i cannot allow that.

but here's the sad truth of it all.  when you pay $3.79 on amazon prime for an old movie, that money is not ever getting to the writers or actors, or even the producers.  it just isn't.  that money will go onto the amazon ledger and pay for storage, servers, attorneys, executives, until they turn to 3rd party sourcing companies that purchased libraries from obsolete production companies like vestron or orion and say, sorry, here's your three cents.

i also will download british shows that aren't available yet on us tv or britbox/acorn, like catastrophe.  but once i like something, i'll make sure everyone in my life knows to watch it on whatever platform carries it, which i believe was prime.

*i don't use torrents to download first-run movies or pirated home video shit, in case that part was unclear.  it's not even about the money, it's about the quality.  fuck all that.

[Queen Bitch 1692]

I also find myself torrenting these days. After what they put us through for five months, these motherfuckers aren't getting any of my money for the time being.

[henrygandorf 28888]

7 hours ago, BeardIP said:

But…WBD CEO David Zaslav’s decisions favoring tax strategies over creators could still deter filmmakers from working with the studio.

gee, you think so, doctor?

(quoting the reporter, not the poster)

[Nice Guy Eddie 13317]

Pet peeve of mine with semi-streaming channels especially CNN. I was in my car listening to a panel debate on CNN via Sirius. Get home, go inside and flip on the CNN streaming channel logged on with an account for my cable subscription at another house. Not free, I pay for it.  CNN makes me watch 2+ minutes of streaming ads before they broadcast their live channel.

and when I finally got to that debate, the debate was ending and they went to the actual commercials. I’m cool with them paying their bills and earning a profit but abusing your viewers is the wrong path.  Wrap the content with ads on the border but don’t hide your content.

EDIT: had to add this. I kept watching the CNN content. Iin the middle of the next segment CNN popped up ads with a 240 second countdown on the screen. WTF. Interrupt the broadcast for a 4 min commercial break. I’m done with their streaming content.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Biff Tannen 45212]

5 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Pet peeve of mine with semi-streaming channels especially CNN. I was in my car listening to a panel debate on CNN via Sirius. Get home, go inside and flip on the CNN streaming channel logged on with an account for my cable subscription at another house. Not free, I pay for it.  CNN makes me watch 2+ minutes of streaming ads before they broadcast their live channel.

and when I finally got to that debate, the debate was ending and they went to the actual commercials. I’m cool with them paying their bills and earning a profit but abusing your viewers is the wrong path.  Wrap the content with ads on the border but don’t hide your content.

EDIT: had to add this. I kept watching the CNN content. Iin the middle of the next segment CNN popped up ads with a 240 second countdown on the screen. WTF. Interrupt the broadcast for a 4 min commercial break. I’m done with their streaming content.

Yep. I turn it on for background noise for my dogs when I leave the house so they don’t go nuts at every noise. It’s like 80% ads, 20% content. 

[Chopper 16666]

On 11/10/2023 at 3:55 PM, BeardIP said:

There is an interesting read I'll link (it's a bit long, by our 2023 standards to your TikTok and Youtube Shorts point), but it makes the opposite case. That Prestige TV is dying/dead.

Pretty sure Netflix killed it or put it on life support because of the rarity with which they have a show that goes beyond one or two seasons. They also created -- from what understand but am open to correction -- the hard checklist for how often there has to be a chase scene, or a fight, or a hint of a boob, etc. They produce mostly formulaic shit. But it's an all in one product for lowbrow, mass audience tastes such that old, upper-mid tv shows like Suits become attractive and essential viewing.

On 11/15/2023 at 12:09 AM, UpperWestside said:

This is just cable TV all over again. I have Prime (Good for many other things so it’s worth it) and then Britbox, Acorn TV (More UK TV) and PBS Masterpiece (Again mostly British stuff).

This is my tv package too except I have hulu tv for football season and a $20 monthly credit from Amex I can use to pay for Hulu without ads, or Peacock's premium option.

I find it really difficult to watch any non-sports tv with commercials...the quality has to be higher than normal. I barely watch anything on Prime as it is but as soon as they add commercials unless you pay more (next year as announced), I may just cut off our prime membership.

 

[Neonmoon 38126]

9 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Pet peeve of mine with semi-streaming channels especially CNN. I was in my car listening to a panel debate on CNN via Sirius. Get home, go inside and flip on the CNN streaming channel logged on with an account for my cable subscription at another house. Not free, I pay for it.  CNN makes me watch 2+ minutes of streaming ads before they broadcast their live channel.

and when I finally got to that debate, the debate was ending and they went to the actual commercials. I’m cool with them paying their bills and earning a profit but abusing your viewers is the wrong path.  Wrap the content with ads on the border but don’t hide your content.

EDIT: had to add this. I kept watching the CNN content. Iin the middle of the next segment CNN popped up ads with a 240 second countdown on the screen. WTF. Interrupt the broadcast for a 4 min commercial break. I’m done with their streaming content.

CNN is the same 3 “breaking” stories talked about by a different host each hour with a used up panel of political commentators, all being asked “what’s your reaction?” to said breaking story.