The Business of Hollywood & Streaming

[henrygandorf 28,883]

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

What has changed ?

AI could replace a lot of people and it’s damn evil 

ai can't write dialogue.

[Texas Flood 1,338]

8 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

The AI language and rejection of proposal is pretty telling 

Not really. They’ll hold on the position for a few months until the writers cave on the other more important positions.

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

ai can't write dialogue.

Exactly.

AI can only draw from LLM's and what people have already put into the world. And writing dialogue is where modern writers score the worst, IMO. So if so few people can do it well, how can we expect AI to do it well?

Now for, as the kids say, all the "mid" content -- AI can probably do a fine enough job equivalent to people. Prestige stuff will suffer. Which brings up this interesting 10 second summary I read about who will suffer:

Quote

 

Companies will likely be hit differently by a strike:

• Netflix, which already has a significant backlog of shows and can draw on a huge amount of unscripted and foreign series, is in a strong position.
• Warner Bros. Discovery, which produces a lot of reality TV, could also bump along OK, though HBO would eventually be hurt by a dearth of new prestige shows. Disney will rely on sports programming and its vast library.
• Traditional broadcasters like Paramount Global and Comcast’s NBCUniversal could be hurt quickly by a lack of new shows.

 

Also super interesting to read roughly 98% vote to strike, biggest voting bloc in history:

Quote

 

What are the writers’ gripes?

They argue that Hollywood’s pivot to streaming worsened their working conditions and made it hard to earn a middle-class income as a writer. Here’s why…

Shorter series: In the previous TV era, shows like How I Met Your Mother reliably churned out seasons with 20+ episodes. Now, streamers are prioritizing seasons with eight-to-12 episodes.

Residuals: Historically, if you had a writing credit on a TV show and that show was aired as a rerun, you’d earn a royalty payment known as a residual. Streaming has disrupted that income stream.

Mini rooms: In the streaming age, writers often work in “mini rooms” where they crank out scripts at low wages for shows that may or may not be made.

So, there’s a lot of frustration. Last month, 97.85% of eligible members of the Writers Guild of America, which represents most of the working writers in Hollywood, voted to authorize a strike if an agreement with major studios wasn’t reached. That’s the most support for a work stoppage in the union’s history.

 

 

[Neonmoon 38,126]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

ai can't write dialogue.

Yet…

[HamsterHookah 112]

I could be reading into this wrong, but it really does seem to me that "writing" in Hollywood is going the way of journalism and photojournalism as standalone jobs that support a lifestyle. Few will get them. Instead they seem to be headed to more of a gig-economy type deal.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,962]

So we're basically in season 2 of The Wire?

[Captain Ron 12,722]

14 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

I could be reading into this wrong, but it really does seem to me that "writing" in Hollywood is going the way of journalism and photojournalism as standalone jobs that support a lifestyle. Few will get them. Instead they seem to be headed to more of a gig-economy type deal.

You’re reading it way wrong. The financial supports of the entertainment and journalism industries are very different. The short being entertainment alone makes a lot of money, journalism alone does not (or barely does).

 Plus, part of what these contracts put in are protections for people. Of you want to make a show or movie, you have to use guild writers. You won’t be allowed to just gig economy it (or JUST AI it).

Finally, there is just so much content now, cable shows, streaming, movie, etc. And we expect it to be good. You need writers. This is probably the biggest thing, the shift over years. Movies/network shows to adding in tons of cable networks to note adding in tons of streaming services. Shorter seasons but so much variety.

 Again, key roles in a very profitable business. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Captain Ron

[Parliament 14,017]

17 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

ai can't write dialogue.

Half the posters here are ai Chinese bots.  

[Sandman 3,399]

1 hour ago, Captain Ron said:

Finally, there is just so much content now, cable shows, streaming, movie, etc. And we expect it to be good.

Shit, I don't. I pretty much gave up on 90% of TV programming, other than documentaries or the occasional HBO series. The acting is just bad and the writing isn't far behind. Every time I walk through the living room and see the trash my wife is watching, I just shake my head. 

[Captain Ron 12,722]

7 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Shit, I don't. I pretty much gave up on 90% of TV programming, other than documentaries or the occasional HBO series. The acting is just bad and the writing isn't far behind. Every time I walk through the living room and see the trash my wife is watching, I just shake my head. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I know there is still a shit ton of garbage on TV and streaming. I expect more (Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones Seasons 1-5, Ted Lasso, etc. Maybe I am in the minority, but I just don't have time to waste my brain on shit TV. 

[henrygandorf 28,883]

3 hours ago, Parliament said:

Half the posters here are ai Chinese bots.  

point proven.

[HamsterHookah 112]

4 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

You’re reading it way wrong. The financial supports of the entertainment and journalism industries are very different. The short being entertainment alone makes a lot of money, journalism alone does not (or barely does).

 Plus, part of what these contracts put in are protections for people. Of you want to make a show or movie, you have to use guild writers. You won’t be allowed to just gig economy it (or JUST AI it).

Finally, there is just so much content now, cable shows, streaming, movie, etc. And we expect it to be good. You need writers. This is probably the biggest thing, the shift over years. Movies/network shows to adding in tons of cable networks to note adding in tons of streaming services. Shorter seasons but so much variety.

 Again, key roles in a very profitable business. 

Good stuff, thanks for the education. I honestly didn't know if you could just use "scab" labor or non-guild/non-union people or how any of that works.

It's so true that entertainment brings in mega dollars, so that makes sense too. However, there is substantial pressure to cut costs for the big, tech-first streamers like NFLX, Hulu, DIsney+, etc.

The real losers the next few days/weeks during the strike are the James Cordon and Jimmy Fallon shows of the world, which is kinda okay in my book, personally.

[henrygandorf 28,883]

6 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

You’re reading it way wrong. The financial supports of the entertainment and journalism industries are very different. The short being entertainment alone makes a lot of money, journalism alone does not (or barely does).

 Plus, part of what these contracts put in are protections for people. Of you want to make a show or movie, you have to use guild writers. You won’t be allowed to just gig economy it (or JUST AI it).

Finally, there is just so much content now, cable shows, streaming, movie, etc. And we expect it to be good. You need writers. This is probably the biggest thing, the shift over years. Movies/network shows to adding in tons of cable networks to note adding in tons of streaming services. Shorter seasons but so much variety.

 Again, key roles in a very profitable business. 

to play add-on, there are writers in places you don't think writers should be.  duck dynasty was famous for having a 12-man room, and that was "scripted reality".  the other issue with using "scabs" is that these aren't one-off fill-ins, like parts of a sports season.  the writers are connected to the directors and producers and agencies and management companies and it all ties together.  unless you're literally talking about scooping up randos on their laptops at starbucks, there's a lot more that goes into it.

also the dga and sag are about to go through similar shit, so now's not the time for anti-solidarity (disunity?).  pretty much everyone is on the same page.

as far as the economics behind it, you can say everyone is slashing for the shareholders, and for tech, that's definitely true.  but what's killing pretty much the entire business goes no farther than one irrefutable fact - people aren't going to the movies like they used to.  movies drive everything and the money trickles down.  when paramount can't release 8-12 movies a year, then mtv can't produce tv shows.  it's that simple, and there's only a handful of corporations that own all of it.

the $ has to come from somewhere, and streaming is still relatively new.  when you look at the last strike (2008?), think how much has changed since then in terms of how we consume content.  as always, the writers are last to the trough, and everyone knew this was a long time coming.

[HamsterHookah 112]

3 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

to play add-on, there are writers in places you don't think writers should be.  duck dynasty was famous for having a 12-man room, and that was "scripted reality".  the other issue with using "scabs" is that these aren't one-off fill-ins, like parts of a sports season.  the writers are connected to the directors and producers and agencies and management companies and it all ties together.  unless you're literally talking about scooping up randos on their laptops at starbucks, there's a lot more that goes into it.

also the dga and sag are about to go through similar shit, so now's not the time for anti-solidarity (disunity?).  pretty much everyone is on the same page.

as far as the economics behind it, you can say everyone is slashing for the shareholders, and for tech, that's definitely true.  but what's killing pretty much the entire business goes no farther than one irrefutable fact - people aren't going to the movies like they used to.  movies drive everything and the money trickles down.  when paramount can't release 8-12 movies a year, then mtv can't produce tv shows.  it's that simple, and there's only a handful of corporations that own all of it.

the $ has to come from somewhere, and streaming is still relatively new.  when you look at the last strike (2008?), think how much has changed since then in terms of how we consume content.  as always, the writers are last to the trough, and everyone knew this was a long time coming.

Great insight. Question for you:

Are there any ladders in chaos for smaller time/minor writers? What about for folks looking to shop projects or get a big break?

 

[henrygandorf 28,883]

32 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Great insight. Question for you:

Are there any ladders in chaos for smaller time/minor writers? What about for folks looking to shop projects or get a big break?

not really, because it's not structured like that.  if someone like fallon or kimmel was like fuck it, they could hire non-union writers i suppose, but all comics are writers too and they would never do that.  they're all on team wga and their people are hand-picked and no way they would screw them like that.  nbc/abc knows better than to even broach it with them.  and the strike has been looming for so long that all overall deals and writing assignments (rewrites and such) were closed out before may 1st to avoid being left in the lurch.

productions that can move forward without a working room will do so, and the rest will hold steady until it's resolved.  several studios/networks have a backlog in case it stretches on, which it might, especially if it overlaps with another guild's deal expiring.  the issue with the chaos ladder is that the same people still control the distribution, and everything goes through them, whether broadcast network, streaming, movie studio, whatever.  all agents and producers lead to the same destination and all the lights are red. 

not only that, but networks are no longer on a strict schedule like they would be 20 or even 10 years ago.  if an abc show premieres in late october instead of early september, nobody even notices.  there are no rules like that anymore.  there could be 8, 10, 12, 16, or 22 episodes.  nobody knows shit.

it should be an opening for nonscripted, which has blossomed during every strike.  we're currently pitching our nonscripted show, but because of the strike and the general uncertainty in the business, we've been slow-walking it while so many studios are in reorg or outright buying freeze.  our producing partner and agents won't reach out to hulu or prime or nbcu while they're on a freeze.  execs won't hear pitches or they'll pass after an email.  no thanks.

the weird lesson here, which i guess is unavoidable, is why announce and publicize the strike?  everyone knew the deal would lapse on may 1st, and as far back as november, people who knew said nothing would be resolved before now, so everyone saw this coming.  but a strike is supposed to cause turmoil through its unpredictability, and leave the higher-ups with no other option than to cave in to the demands.  there have been strikes before and everyone was ready for this one, so it's ho-hum, here we go again.

 

[HamsterHookah 112]

5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

not really, because it's not structured like that.  if someone like fallon or kimmel was like fuck it, they could hire non-union writers i suppose, but all comics are writers too and they would never do that.  they're all on team wga and their people are hand-picked and no way they would screw them like that.  nbc/abc knows better than to even broach it with them.  and the strike has been looming for so long that all overall deals and writing assignments (rewrites and such) were closed out before may 1st to avoid being left in the lurch.

productions that can move forward without a working room will do so, and the rest will hold steady until it's resolved.  several studios/networks have a backlog in case it stretches on, which it might, especially if it overlaps with another guild's deal expiring.  the issue with the chaos ladder is that the same people still control the distribution, and everything goes through them, whether broadcast network, streaming, movie studio, whatever.  all agents and producers lead to the same destination and all the lights are red. 

not only that, but networks are no longer on a strict schedule like they would be 20 or even 10 years ago.  if an abc show premieres in late october instead of early september, nobody even notices.  there are no rules like that anymore.  there could be 8, 10, 12, 16, or 22 episodes.  nobody knows shit.

it should be an opening for nonscripted, which has blossomed during every strike.  we're currently pitching our nonscripted show, but because of the strike and the general uncertainty in the business, we've been slow-walking it while so many studios are in reorg or outright buying freeze.  our producing partner and agents won't reach out to hulu or prime or nbcu while they're on a freeze.  execs won't hear pitches or they'll pass after an email.  no thanks.

the weird lesson here, which i guess is unavoidable, is why announce and publicize the strike?  everyone knew the deal would lapse on may 1st, and as far back as november, people who knew said nothing would be resolved before now, so everyone saw this coming.  but a strike is supposed to cause turmoil through its unpredictability, and leave the higher-ups with no other option than to cave in to the demands.  there have been strikes before and everyone was ready for this one, so it's ho-hum, here we go again.

 

How does this affect you materially, if at all? Do you have to go work in marketing for a company in LA or something until this thing settles up or are you living off savings since you can't write and make income? I'd imagine a lot of writers want to get this thing done quickly as will the studios who need to run a business, one that is just getting it's sea legs back this year from the 2 years of Covid.

[henrygandorf 28,883]

3 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

How does this affect you materially, if at all? Do you have to go work in marketing for a company in LA or something until this thing settles up or are you living off savings since you can't write and make income? I'd imagine a lot of writers want to get this thing done quickly as will the studios who need to run a business, one that is just getting it's sea legs back this year from the 2 years of Covid.

i have a "day job" that's on the marketing side.  technically i'm an ind contractor so i can do it when i want or on a project basis.  typically i'm able to work it and still develop projects at the same time since i do both from home.

it affects me because it (along with covid) has changed the industry.  there's not as much money coming in, so the studios and networks have cut back their buying needs dramatically (most by 50-75%).  it's a numbers game.  the less they decide to buy, the less of a chance i have to sell something.  now is a great time to develop projects though, which i'm currently doing while we wait out the pitch game with the other one.

in the streaming world, there are infinite time-slots, so that should be good news for developing and selling shows.  but with all the uncertainly since 2020 and glut of streamers leading to consolidation/reorg of networks (disco bros, max, viacom, etc), there are fewer gatekeepers, and thus fewer gates.

[HamsterHookah 112]

30 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i have a "day job" that's on the marketing side.  technically i'm an ind contractor so i can do it when i want or on a project basis.  typically i'm able to work it and still develop projects at the same time since i do both from home.

it affects me because it (along with covid) has changed the industry.  there's not as much money coming in, so the studios and networks have cut back their buying needs dramatically (most by 50-75%).  it's a numbers game.  the less they decide to buy, the less of a chance i have to sell something.  now is a great time to develop projects though, which i'm currently doing while we wait out the pitch game with the other one.

in the streaming world, there are infinite time-slots, so that should be good news for developing and selling shows.  but with all the uncertainly since 2020 and glut of streamers leading to consolidation/reorg of networks (disco bros, max, viacom, etc), there are fewer gatekeepers, and thus fewer gates.

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing and Godspeed. Post any inside baseball you get about the strike with your connections and network!

[Ricky Butler 2,643]

5 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

as far as the economics behind it, you can say everyone is slashing for the shareholders, and for tech, that's definitely true.  but what's killing pretty much the entire business goes no farther than one irrefutable fact - people aren't going to the movies like they used to.  movies drive everything and the money trickles down.  when paramount can't release 8-12 movies a year, then mtv can't produce tv shows.  it's that simple, and there's only a handful of corporations that own all of it.

Sounds like this summer has an impressive slate of blockbusters. I have a vested interest in all of this, but I'm optimistic that better options will help the box office. Here's hoping.

[Ricky Butler 2,643]

The showrunner on my current show is holding the line and not coming in even though the majority of his duties at this point are "producing." Sound mixes, VFX review, etc. I think if others in Hollywood follow suit, that will help because it will actually stall shows even if they have scripts. 

 

[Parliament 14,017]

We're gonna get more Fast and Furious movies, aren't we.

[YChang 3,394]

2 minutes ago, Parliament said:

We're gonna get more Fast and Furious movies, aren't we.

Jokes on you, we were always gonna get more Fast and Furious movies. It’s all about family, who doesn’t like that?

[henrygandorf 28,883]

 

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

 

To be fair, House of Cards was stolen from South Korea and derivative and not novel, right?

Mad Men though, yes sir!

[HamsterHookah 112]

Great article on some of the underbelly: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/notes-on-hollywood/why-are-tv-writers-so-miserable?

Quote

 

For newer writers, there’s a sense of having shown up at the party too late. Alex O’Keefe, who is twenty-eight, grew up poor in Florida and worked as a speechwriter for the senators Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey and as Green New Deal campaign director before getting staffed on FX’s “The Bear.” “It should be this beautiful rags-to-riches story, right?” he told me. “Unfortunately, I realized not all that glitters is gold.” During his nine weeks working in the writers’ room for “The Bear,” over Zoom, he was living in a tiny Brooklyn apartment with no heat; sometimes his space heater would blow the power out, and he’d bring his laptop to a public library. (He was never flown to set.) He thought that he was making a lot of money, but, after reps’ fees and taxes, it didn’t add up to much. “It’s a very regular-degular, working-class existence,” he said. “And the only future I’m seeking financially is to enter that middle class, which has always been rarified for someone who comes from poverty.”

Last month, “The Bear” won the W.G.A. Award for Comedy Series. O’Keefe went to the ceremony with a negative bank account and a bow tie that he’d bought on credit. He’s now applying for jobs at movie theatres to prepare for the potential strike. “A lot of people assume that, when you’re in a TV writers’ room, you sit around a table, and you just dream together,” he said. “With ‘The Bear,’ I learned from these masters that, if you are given a shit sandwich, you can dress that up and make it a Michelin-star-level dish. And they were consistently given shit sandwich after shit sandwich.” He recalled one of the executive producers apologizing to him. “She said, ‘I’m so sorry this is your first writers’-room experience, because it’s not usually like this. It shouldn’t be like this.’ I don’t even know the alternative. I thought we would be treated more like collaborators on a product. It’s like an assembly line now.” ♦

 

 

[Captain Ron 12,722]

10 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

To be fair, House of Cards was stolen from South Korea and derivative and not novel, right?

Mad Men though, yes sir!

I don't recall watching Kevin Spacey speaking Korean. It still needed writers to make it the show it became.

 

You're confusing show creation with show writing.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Captain Ron

[HamsterHookah 112]

On 5/2/2023 at 2:15 PM, henrygandorf said:

ai can't write dialogue.

[henrygandorf 28,883]

2 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

I don't recall watching Kevin Spacey speaking Korean. It still needed writers to make it the show it became.

 

You're confusing show creation with show writing.

it also had korean writers, presumably. 

[tx 3 putt 75,529]

16 hours ago, Ricky Butler said:

The showrunner on my current show is holding the line and not coming in even though the majority of his duties at this point are "producing." Sound mixes, VFX review, etc. I think if others in Hollywood follow suit, that will help because it will actually stall shows even if they have scripts. 

 

I’m curious how much of this can be done remote / from home ?

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

I’m curious how much of this can be done remote / from home ?

For the zoom writing rooms, apparently, it's not great:

Quote

Wrapped up in the economic issues and creative stasis is a sense that TV writing just isn’t that fun anymore. “It’s become a grind at every level,” Jacqmin said. Most writers’ rooms have gone virtual—a pandemic necessity that has become a cost-saving norm—draining the camaraderie that used to help writers learn from one another, feel vulnerable enough to pitch personal story ideas, or just vent. “We always had a Ping-Pong table near the writers’ room, and on every break we would have these completely bare-knuckle tournaments,” Byock said, of her previous jobs. “That was part of what made it feel fun to go to work. It felt like we were really building something together. It wasn’t just a punch-the-clock job. And, when you’re on Zoom, working on a show that you don’t even know whether or not is going to be greenlit—it’s just a completely contingent situation—it’s very hard to get to that place.”

 

[HamsterHookah 112]

On 5/2/2023 at 2:15 PM, henrygandorf said:

ai can't write dialogue.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65465386?

Here's Stephen Colbert v. AI Colbert on Biden's re-election announcement.

The real Stephen Colbert:

"Of course, we know President Biden's real opponent is the ravages of time. If he wins a second term, he will be 86 when he leaves office and voters feel, to put it delicately, that is way too [expletive] old… But what matters is that Biden is young at heart… it's all his other organs we have to worry about."

 

AI Colbert:

"Big news today, folks! President Biden has announced that he will be running for re-election. That's right, the man who once said he didn't want to run for president because of his age is now saying, 'Age is just a number, and so is 78!'

"Now, I know some of you might be concerned about President Biden's age. In a recent poll, 50% of Americans said they were worried about his age, and the other 50% were Joe Biden. But let's be real, folks, Biden's age is not a big deal. He's got the energy of a 30-year-old, and the memory of a... well, I forget what I was going to say."

[henrygandorf 28,883]

8 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65465386?

Here's Stephen Colbert v. AI Colbert on Biden's re-election announcement.

The real Stephen Colbert:

"Of course, we know President Biden's real opponent is the ravages of time. If he wins a second term, he will be 86 when he leaves office and voters feel, to put it delicately, that is way too [expletive] old… But what matters is that Biden is young at heart… it's all his other organs we have to worry about."

 

AI Colbert:

"Big news today, folks! President Biden has announced that he will be running for re-election. That's right, the man who once said he didn't want to run for president because of his age is now saying, 'Age is just a number, and so is 78!'

"Now, I know some of you might be concerned about President Biden's age. In a recent poll, 50% of Americans said they were worried about his age, and the other 50% were Joe Biden. But let's be real, folks, Biden's age is not a big deal. He's got the energy of a 30-year-old, and the memory of a... well, I forget what I was going to say."

yeah, that's not dialogue.  this is dialogue:

Quote

If I gave you a famous exchange of film dialogue, could you rewrite it?  Like if they brought in a new writer to change the dialogue but keep the same intent, could you rewrite the exchange like that?

 

Sure, I can give it a shot!

Henry Hill: Wow, Tommy, you're really cracking me up.

Tommy DeVito: What do you mean, Henry?

Henry Hill: I mean, the way you tell stories, man. You've got a real gift for it.

Tommy DeVito: (confused) Gift? What gift?

Henry Hill: You know, your sense of humor, your timing. You just know how to make people laugh.

Tommy DeVito: (skeptical) Yeah? Well, I'm not trying to be funny. I'm just telling it like it is.

Henry Hill: (nodding) I get that, I do. But you gotta admit, the way you do it is hilarious.

Tommy DeVito: (defensive) Hilarious? Come on, Henry, I'm not some clown trying to entertain you.

Henry Hill: (putting up his hands) Hey, calm down. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, you're a funny guy.

Tommy DeVito: (sarcastic) Oh, great. Just what I always wanted to be - a funny guy.

Henry Hill: (laughing) I'm serious, Tommy. People love that kind of thing. You've got a real talent.

Tommy DeVito: (pausing) Alright, I guess I see what you're saying. I just don't like to think of myself as a jokester, you know?

Henry Hill: (smiling) I hear you, man. But hey, if the shoe fits...

Tommy DeVito: (chuckling) I guess so. Thanks, Henry. You always know how to make a guy feel good.

Henry Hill: (grinning) No problem, buddy. That's what friends are for.

 

[Captain Ron 12,722]

Good listen

 

[ChickenSandwich 9,768]

Seems like the strike could be huge for non-union Youtube content creators.

[Ricky Butler 2,643]

18 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Seems like the strike could be huge for non-union Youtube content creators.

I do feel like one thing that is lost in this is the concept of skilled labor. Writing, directing, acting, editing are actually very difficult things to be good at. The people striking are some of the top talent in the world. It's easy to diminish their value if you're not aware how movies, tv, etc. are made. This is not a case where a Chatbot or 25 year old influencer can just step in and fill the void.

[ChickenSandwich 9,768]

I don’t think they will replace or do the job of those on strike. I do think those that are putting out content frequently could see an uptick in their viewership. 

[henrygandorf 28,883]

i was on a zoom on thursday with some folks who know way more than me and they set the over/under at halloween.

[Ricky Butler 2,643]

59 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i was on a zoom on thursday with some folks who know way more than me and they set the over/under at halloween.

It'll be interesting to see how the DGA and SAG negotiations go. Those will put a lot of pressure on both sides if they're able to work things out.

[wild_turkey 3,085]

On 5/2/2023 at 2:15 PM, henrygandorf said:

ai can't write dialogue.

Maybe you mean good dialogue, which I would probably agree, but it seems Chatgpt in it's current version is capable of writing dialogue.

I just plugged in the following prompt:

"Write a screenplay for a short film about a family getting a dog."

This is what it gave me back:

Quote

FADE IN:

EXT. SUBURBAN NEIGHBORHOOD - DAY

We see a typical suburban neighborhood with manicured lawns and well-maintained homes.

CUT TO:

INT. LIVING ROOM - DAY

A family of four - a mom, a dad, and two young children - sit on the couch, watching TV. The kids are begging for a dog.

CHILD 1 Please, Mom and Dad! We really want a dog!

CHILD 2 Yeah, we'll take care of it, we promise!

MOM (sighs) I don't know, kids. A dog is a big responsibility.

DAD But think of all the fun we could have as a family! Plus, a dog can teach the kids about responsibility and empathy.

MOM (considering) I guess you have a point.

CUT TO:

EXT. ANIMAL SHELTER - DAY

The family walks into an animal shelter. They're greeted by a friendly shelter worker.

SHELTER WORKER Hi there! How can I help you today?

DAD We're interested in adopting a dog.

SHELTER WORKER Great! Let me show you some of the dogs we have available.

The shelter worker leads them to a room filled with dogs of all shapes and sizes. The family looks around, trying to decide which dog to adopt.

CUT TO:

EXT. DOG PARK - DAY

The family is at a dog park, playing with their new dog, a golden retriever named Max. Max is running around, fetching a ball, and the family is laughing and having a great time.

MOM (smiling) I can't believe we ever hesitated to get a dog. Max has brought so much joy to our family.

DAD (nodding) And the kids have been so responsible, taking turns feeding and walking him.

CHILD 1 And he's the best snuggle buddy ever!

CHILD 2 And he loves playing catch with me!

CUT TO:

EXT. SUBURBAN NEIGHBORHOOD - DAY

The family is walking Max around the neighborhood. They stop to talk to a neighbor.

NEIGHBOR Hi there! Who's this cute pup?

DAD (smiling) This is Max. We just adopted him from the animal shelter.

NEIGHBOR That's wonderful! You know, I've been thinking about getting a dog myself.

DAD (grinning) You should definitely do it. It's been the best decision we've made as a family.

CUT TO:

EXT. SUBURBAN NEIGHBORHOOD - DAY (LATER)

The family and Max are walking back towards their house. They reach their front porch, and Max excitedly jumps up and scratches at the door.

MOM (laughing) Looks like someone's excited to be home!

DAD (opening the door) Come on, Max. Let's go inside.

The family and Max walk inside their home, and the door shuts behind them.

FADE OUT.

 

[gofuckyourself 8,066]

On 5/4/2023 at 11:05 AM, henrygandorf said:

yeah, that's not dialogue.  this is dialogue:

 

Both of those AI examples are terrible, because they're from comedians and films that have incredible jokes/dialogue written by great writers who understand nuance and tone and tempo, etc.

But I'm confident now, or in 6 weeks, AI write some Disney teen show pablum or terrible ABC family sitcom. They already sound like they're written by robots with no concept of humor or entertainment as it is.

 

[wild_turkey 3,085]

Here's another one just for shits and grins:

"Write a short story with dialogue about an old man fishing in the sea."

Quote

The old man sat quietly in his small fishing boat, gazing out at the vast expanse of ocean before him. He had been fishing these waters for as long as he could remember, and it was where he felt most at peace.

Suddenly, he felt a tug on his line, and he quickly reeled it in. As he pulled the fish onto the boat, he heard a voice behind him.

"Nice catch there, old-timer," said a young man who had just pulled up in a speedboat.

The old man turned to face him and replied, "Thank you kindly. But you know, it's not just about catching fish. It's about being out here, feeling the salt air in your lungs and the sun on your face."

The young man scoffed. "I don't have time for all that. I'm here to catch as many fish as I can, and then get back to shore and sell them."

The old man sighed. "That's a shame. You're missing out on the true beauty of fishing."

They sat in silence for a few moments, until the old man felt another tug on his line. He began reeling it in, but this time the fish was much larger and put up a fierce fight.

As the old man struggled with the fish, the young man watched in amazement. "Wow, that's a huge one! You're really something, old-timer."

The old man smiled. "It's not about the size of the fish, son. It's about the challenge. The thrill of the fight. That's what makes fishing so special."

They continued to fish together for a while, and as the sun began to set, the young man turned to the old man and said, "You know, I think I understand what you mean now. It's not just about catching fish. It's about the experience."

The old man nodded. "That's right, son. And if you keep fishing like this, one day you'll be an old-timer just like me."

The young man laughed. "I hope so. Thanks for showing me the true beauty of fishing, old-timer."

And with that, they both cast their lines back into the water, content to enjoy the simple pleasure of fishing in the ocean.

 

[henrygandorf 28,883]

you wanna waste some time - ask it to write in the voice or style of a writer/director you like.  it will come up with some shit-rate dialogue but the occasional fun insight.

[wild_turkey 3,085]

fwiw, without knowing all the specifics of this current strike, I tend to support the writers. I worked for a writer on one of the legacy daytime televesion shows years ago, and my experience there made me appreciate the creative writing process, even if I didn't have any interest in that particular television series. It was fun getting to see behind the curtain, how each script went from basically being an outline to an 80-page script with dialogue and details.

I think it will be a sad moment in human history, possibly in the near future, when AI is used to replace human creativity in television, film, books, music, and art. What a depressing world that machines would be able to capture our imaginations better than our fellow humans can.

[HamsterHookah 112]

Quote

 

The real concern for screenwriters is that language models will be trained on their source material without their permission. The idea is, for instance, that once a chatbot has absorbed patterns from every SNL skit, it could write jokes equally well (plus it’s a low bar).

Writers are taking a stand, demanding that AI not be used to write or rewrite any literary material trained on their contributions. In other words, don’t use our sh*t.

But the producers rejected the demand, sparking another heated debate among creators anxious about AI repurposing their work to generate fresh material.

We’ve seen this among artists (Midjourney), musicians (Drake), and online platforms (Reddit). Now it’s writers.

Here’s our take: AI might replace copywriters, but it’s not producing Breaking Bad anytime soon. However, with cost-cutting measures and stock dips, companies resorting to chatbots (regarded as assets, not staff) is quite plausible.

“Live from New York, it’s ChatGPT!” 

 

AI/Chatgpt isn't going to write the next Mad Men or Breaking Bad, but could it write the next King of Queens and Everybody Loves Raymond and Adam Sandler movie? Probably.

[Captain Ron 12,722]

18 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

fwiw, without knowing all the specifics of this current strike, I tend to support the writers. I worked for a writer on one of the legacy daytime televesion shows years ago, and my experience there made me appreciate the creative writing process, even if I didn't have any interest in that particular television series. It was fun getting to see behind the curtain, how each script went from basically being an outline to an 80-page script with dialogue and details.

I think it will be a sad moment in human history, possibly in the near future, when AI is used to replace human creativity in television, film, books, music, and art. What a depressing world that machines would be able to capture our imaginations better than our fellow humans can.

 

When it comes to the little guy vs Billionaire CEOs/owners, I'm always on the side of labor. When you have one side trying to squeeze the little guy in the name of profits, I don't see any situation where you take the owners/CEOs.

On the part about AI - until AI achieves real sentience, I'm not sure it will ever be up to the task. Current AI only generates based on what it has learned in the past. It needs real creativity to come up with something truly original. 

 

27 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

AI/Chatgpt isn't going to write the next Mad Men or Breaking Bad, but could it write the next King of Queens and Everybody Loves Raymond and Adam Sandler movie? Probably.

Yeah, probably. But again, see that thing about needing real creativity.

[Deej 76,218]

1 hour ago, HamsterHookah said:

but could it write the next Adam Sandler movie?

It didn't write the previous ones? I thought his movies were the testing ground the last 20 years. 

[Parliament 14,017]

Chatbots can write scripts.  Bland, safe, algorithm-driven scripts.  Which is 90% of the shlock Hollywood makes today.

Gonna take real live people to make the new next Top Gun or the Matrix. Of course we get a movie like that every 5 years.  In between it's Marvel movies and Gerard Butler flicks.

[Ricky Butler 2,643]

20 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Chatbots can write scripts.  Bland, safe, algorithm-driven scripts.  Which is 90% of the shlock Hollywood makes today.

Gonna take real live people to make the new next Top Gun or the Matrix. Of course we get a movie like that every 5 years.  In between it's Marvel movies and Gerard Butler flicks.

While setting your cynicism aside, I don't think this strike has anything to do with studios not wanting to pay humans on the 10 blockbuster franchises they produce each year. Want to talk about a drop in the bucket? Those movies are formulaic by design, so the studios are getting exactly what they want for a global audience. Thank God Tom Cruise has enough weight to throw around at Paramount.

[henrygandorf 28,883]

On 2/6/2023 at 1:37 PM, henrygandorf said:

my guess is they're basically gone in 3 years, or will exist on their current model, which is to buy everything not nailed down, and end up with 50%+ of their content being foreign language, because that's their one built-in advantage, they are active all over the world.

Quote

Netflix doubles down on Korean content

Netflix announced a $2.5B investment in Korean content over the next four years — 2x the amount it has invested in the market since 2016 — in a recent press release.

Co-CEO Ted Sarandos spoke of Netflix’s confidence in Korean storytelling and its impact on the world’s interest in the country.

“Hallyu” (meaning “Korean wave”) refers to that global phenomenon, spurred by K-pop bands, Parasite’s Best Picture win, and, of course, Netflix’s “Squid Game.” In 2021, South Korea saw a record $12.4B in content exports.

For Netflix, the move is obvious

didn't remember that these two posts were both on this thread, 10 weeks apart. 

[henrygandorf 28,883]

5 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

AI/Chatgpt isn't going to write the next Mad Men or Breaking Bad, but could it write the next King of Queens and Everybody Loves Raymond and Adam Sandler movie? Probably.

except here's the problem - with king of queens, raymond, and sandler stuff, those guys are writers.  raymond was based on romano's comedy, and he wouldn't be there to help guide the scripts and the show.  same with kevin james, he was a big creative part of his show.  sandler movies are likely only funny because he and other comedians (writers, cough), make changes and adlib when they're shooting.  those scripts are basic and formulaic before they get on set.

if you want robots to write that shit, you'll have to get robots to play the characters as well.  when those guys produce their own shows, it's so they can be involved in the creative process.  there are plenty of actors who are just actors, but those 3 examples (and many others) wouldn't fly.

even the big bang's of the world deal with a mega-showrunner like chuck lorre and he's a writer too.  i hope corporations try to produce a multi-cam sitcom using gpt.  the fallout would be something.