NFL 2023 Offseason

[Had Enough 2111]

or soccer...We've heard that for 11 billion years too.

Length of career is already longer at WR. So maybe potential earnings too. You have two to three times as many starters at Wr as RB. Same with CB.

And in todays world, you see far more players converting from QB to other positions rather than the other way around. If you aren’t playing QB at a relatively early age, then you probably aren’t playing it much. Certainly not at the NFL level.

Many RB skill sets and size don’t translate elsewhere. At least not relative to other NFL players.

You have about 5 unique RBs in the NFL. That number will always be about that. Give or take.

[A-Tex Devil 2499]

The RBs apparently had a conference call today.  I am sympathetic to their annoyance, but they don’t seem to understand that the market just isn’t there and it kinda is what it is.  They aren’t owed more than what market will bear.  I am not sure what they want to happen?   It’s not like 250 lb MLBs, the Steve Atwater type SS, and over the center NGs could control their fate either.  The difference is these guys touch the ball so we notice this market dynamic more.   
 

Agree that kids are going to try to shift to WR or defense.   But then the kids that don’t are going to be so much better that they will be valued again.
 

That said QB-WR/TE skill set has improved exponentially due to a lot of factors including the infestation of spread and 7 on 7.   Until something new and dynamic happens at RB

I could see how guys like Deebo, McCaffrey, Kamara and even Bijan could potentially create a “new” position that has some value.   

[ChickenSandwich 9958]

15 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

The RBs apparently had a conference call today.  I am sympathetic to their annoyance, but they don’t seem to understand that the market just isn’t there and it kinda is what it is.  They aren’t owed more than what market will bear.  I am not sure what they want to happen?   It’s not like 250 lb MLBs, the Steve Atwater type SS, and over the center NGs could control their fate either.  The difference is these guys touch the ball so we notice this market dynamic more.   
 

Agree that kids are going to try to shift to WR or defense.   But then the kids that don’t are going to be so much better that they will be valued again.
 

That said QB-WR/TE skill set has improved exponentially due to a lot of factors including the infestation of spread and 7 on 7.   Until something new and dynamic happens at RB

I could see how guys like Deebo, McCaffrey, Kamara and even Bijan could potentially create a “new” position that has some value.   

More for the running backs mean less for other positions. The teams aren’t pocketing the savings.

Good luck at the union meeting. 
 

The game evolves, no one cried when the FB went away. 

[Zeus 6859]

On 7/23/2023 at 6:18 AM, Texzilla58 said:

Rookie deals are four years except first rounders. 1st round contracts are guaranteed. Franchise tags are overblown as only 6 - 8 are used each year and about half result in a longterm deal before the rad line. Most rookies are UDFAs.

I am more interested in players having more opportunities, player safety, and post career support and health care. The union ignores much of this. I also want more journeymen players able to get subsequent contracts and have longer careers. Contracts for first three rounds are fine. Cut 4-7 to three weeks years. Eliminate tiered veteran contracts and have a single vet minimum. A lot of vets would rather play for $750k vs getting cut because their min is $1m.

Im saying change the rules so that Rookie deals are only good for one year. That solves some of the problem of RBs being underpaid in their prime.

[Zeus 6859]

18 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

More for the running backs mean less for other positions. The teams aren’t pocketing the savings.

Good luck at the union meeting. 
 

The game evolves, no one cried when the FB went away. 

I did. Used to be a two way player until my HS team went to the spread instead of split back veer. 

😥

[Vic Mackey 47953]

Damn

[Juicy 729]

2 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Damn

This is about as lions as it can get. Team looks solid, the hype is there, sign a big time playmaker and he gets injured. 

[BurntOrange&White 41857]

21 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

Bijan signed a 4 year fully guaranteed contract for $21.9m. It came with a $13.0 mill signing bonus. His fifth year option will have significant value based on performance and achievement. They could sign him to an extension after the third year. He’s only 21, but I expect his coach to run the shit out of him. But he might get franchised. Ask Tony Dorsett if he wishes he’d made $40 mil.

doubt, he'll be tagged....

[Vic Mackey 47953]

23 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

doubt, he'll be tagged....

Agreed. The whole Zeke/Gurley era was the nail in the coffin for RB's. Gurley's wasn't quite as bad but they gave him a deal before Zeke I believe. And they got off it as quick as they could. Dallas just rode with it and saw it as a sunk cost and tried to get the most out of him. No team is going to give a RB a big second contract. And expect that team to run the RB into the ground as much as they can to maximize their return on the cheaper rookie deal. Even RB's being drafted in the 1st round is on a big downward trend. 

[Vic Mackey 47953]

.

[Juicy 729]

CJGJ no structural damage, expected to be day to day and ready for regular season. 

 

HYPE TRAIN BACK ON

[Vic Mackey 47953]

.

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

This seems like a reasonable solution to the RB problem that I haven't seen brought up elsewhere. 

 

 

 

[LTtxfan 50000]

5 hours ago, Zeus said:

Im saying change the rules so that Rookie deals are only good for one year. That solves some of the problem of RBs being underpaid in their prime.

Veteran players will not allow rookie deals for 1st-7th Rd drafted players to be for only 1yr...

The vets want the higher, larger contracts for experienced veteran players...

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by LTtxfan
messed up

[Catdaddyhorn 3467]

The performance based pay pool that Domonique refers to in the tweet up above has no effect on the salary cap. Therefore changing the terms or benchmarks for players gaining extra pay from this pool won't have to be part of a CBA. 

[Vic Mackey 47953]

.

[Vic Mackey 47953]

.

[Texzilla58 4790]

Im saying change the rules so that Rookie deals are only good for one year. That solves some of the problem of RBs being underpaid in their prime.

But the rules aren’t changing. The NFLPA won’t agree and neither will the owners. Both sides like what they have. The union will not put every rookie contract out to the market. And unlike RDs, most rookies have to learn the position and teams don’t know where a player will slot quality wise early on. The NFL is about labor peace and stability. The CBA has enriched everyone involved. It’s not changing.

[Texzilla58 4790]

And just like that…

Saquan hears Carl Banks who tells him not to be a “principled fool” and sign his tag. All this angst to sign a one year deal worth “up to $11 million.” $2m signing bonus. A lot less than the $16m a year 4 year deal he demanded. About $900k more if he hits some goals. And so it goes.

[MisterP 127]

Just seems weird. Why turn down the 4 year 14mil a year deal or whatever the giants were offering to take a 1 year 11 million dollar deal? Seems like bad business on Saquan's part, no?

[Pam Cummings 9868]

Everything is bad business when you're dealing with a system that is rigged against you. I'm sure the Giants owner will really notice that extra money he saved when he uses it to gas up his yacht.

[ChickenSandwich 9958]

The “extra money” went to a different player/position. 
 

Stupid fat cats and their collective bargaining with the Unions. They would have gotten away with it too, if it weren’t for…

[Vic Mackey 47953]

 

[Pam Cummings 9868]

30 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

The “extra money” went to a different player/position. 
 

Stupid fat cats and their collective bargaining with the Unions. They would have gotten away with it too, if it weren’t for…

Keep believing that the people who run the league and make all the rules and have all the money cant afford to pay a fair rate in a sport where we almost all watched a guy die on the field.

 

Every time a bad contract is signed it's "well the cap always goes up, TV deals, this will look like nothing in 2 years". Conveniently for everyone except RBs. Then it's just bad business!

Edited July 25, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[Texzilla58 4790]

Pam you sound like a Marxist student wanting to go chop sugar in Cuba. It sounds like you don’t understand how the nfl salary cap works or the structure of the CBA.

So how is a system rigged when the team offered a $56 million four year contract to an aging often hurt RB. Anyone with a lick of sense bought that was a stupid offer by the Giants as they have bigger needs. But even more stupid Saquan held out for more. Good thing you’re not his agent. He’d be making ZERO. Which as his agent means you’d make ZERO.

You sound ridiculous whining about the injustice of being paid $11 million to run a football. Do you know how many thousands of RBs out there would kill to play pro ball for millions less and never got a break. Saquan is a 0.01%’er of RBs, basically a Rockefeller of his industry. You’re may think you’re advocating for some coal miners in Appalachia but you’re whiny for a multimillionaire.

Btw that rigged system will pay $7.16 billion to players in 2023. There are roughly 2280 players so that’s $3.1m avg. obviously some make much more, others don’t. That’s a huge transfer of wealth every year. Few businesses hand over half their TOP LINE revenue to their employees before any costs are calculated. They aren’t sharecroppers choppin cotton down in Groesbeck.

[Magus Ossis 2997]

The idea of a free market presumes the absence of monopolies. The laws of supply and demand are premised on the idea that there are large pools of potential suppliers and consumers. There are a few players that are so special as to negate this effect when negotiating for free agent contracts, but for the most part, the exception works in the favor of the league. There is no meaningful specific competitor to the NFL. One can not bargain fairly against a monopoly. This reality can be treated in various ways, but it does not vanish. Viewing the 32 franchises as competitors is only partially true. They negotiate the important contracts as a league.

 

TLDR Playing a game for millions may be cool, but the owners will always be the real winners.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Magus Ossis

[Pam Cummings 9868]

Thousand of RBs that arent any good and dont belong in the NFL. When you start seeing those guys in the NFL youve made your product shittier. Good job.

 

The system is rigged due to the salary cap. All that does is protect dumbass owners from themselves. That's literally in place to give them an excuse to not shell out as much money. You sounds so dumb with those owner talking points. Literally nobody should feel sorry for the oligarchs. There's a part of me that hopes the Saudis start their own league. All of a sudden these owners might conveniently start finding some extra money.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[BurntOrange&White 41857]

4 hours ago, MisterP said:

Just seems weird. Why turn down the 4 year 14mil a year deal or whatever the giants were offering to take a 1 year 11 million dollar deal? Seems like bad business on Saquan's part, no?

Because he overvalued himself and his position.

[BurntOrange&White 41857]

5 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

But the rules aren’t changing. The NFLPA won’t agree and neither will the owners. Both sides like what they have. The union will not put every rookie contract out to the market. And unlike RDs, most rookies have to learn the position and teams don’t know where a player will slot quality wise early on. The NFL is about labor peace and stability. The CBA has enriched everyone involved. It’s not changing.

Only thing I see potentially getting changed is the two franchise tags.....maybe only have 1 and if you get franchised then the following year you have the player option.

[BurntOrange&White 41857]

3 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Thousand of RBs that arent any good and dont belong in the NFL. When you start seeing those guys in the NFL youve made your product shittier. Good job.

 

The system is rigged due to the salary cap. All that does is protect dumbass owners from themselves. That's literally in place to give them an excuse to not shell out as much money. You sounds so dumb with those owner talking points. Literally nobody should feel sorry for the oligarchs. There's a part of me that hopes the Saudis start their own league. All of a sudden these owners might conveniently start finding some extra money.

The system isn't rigged you dumb mother fucker. It's literally a position that is no longer considered premium and where teams would rather spend that extra money on receivers. Why are you being such a stupid mother fucker about this? 

[Brothahorn 10097]

.

Sounds like something Leveon Bell would say.

[Ignatius 4141]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

The system isn't rigged you dumb mother fucker.

…….

Why are you being such a stupid mother fucker about this? 

Spell it right, motherfucker…

[BurntOrange&White 41857]

1 minute ago, Ignatius said:

Spell it right, motherfucker…

[Blotto 24017]

Zach Wilson looking nimble out there

 

 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10803]

7 hours ago, MisterP said:

Just seems weird. Why turn down the 4 year 14mil a year deal or whatever the giants were offering to take a 1 year 11 million dollar deal? Seems like bad business on Saquan's part, no?

or the 4yr 14mil deal's actually fully guaranteed amount was really low, making the franchise offering a viable worst case alternative

[Pam Cummings 9868]

4 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

The system isn't rigged you dumb mother fucker. It's literally a position that is no longer considered premium and where teams would rather spend that extra money on receivers. Why are you being such a stupid mother fucker about this? 

It's a sport that ruins your body for life you dumb motherfucker. You play it for 5 years if you're lucky and your body is never ever the same. If you want these goliaths to keep entertaining your dumb ass at the expense of their long term health you'd better make sure they're square financially.

 

This is a discussion that has been happening for a long time now and it's one that is bad for the business of the NFL. To even have that perception out there that you are taking advantage of people and ruining their bodies and not compensating them fairly is bad for your business. God damn.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[4th&Five 42002]

7 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

 

Uhhh, I know people love their pets but a sick dog doesn’t excuse driving 140. 

[LTtxfan 50000]

Giants did cough up more money to help Saquon feel slightly better...

Giants and Saquon Barkley agree to terms on a 1-year deal, RB will report to training camp 

From article:   Saquon Barkley and the New York Giants have found a temporary solution regarding the star running back's contract. While it isn't a long-term deal, the two sides have agreed to an adjusted one-year deal that will replace the franchise tag, the deal will pay him the $10.1 million franchise tag, plus $900,000 in incentives that could push the 2023 earnings up to $11 million. Barkley also received a $2 million signing bonus with the new deal, according to NFL Media and confirmed by CBS Sports NFL insider Josina Anderson. Barkley, who was initially slated to play under the team's franchise tag, will be in attendance when the Giants begin training camp. 

If Barkley earns all the incentives and earns the $11 million, his franchise tag value will increase to up to $13.2 million in 2024 or a $24.2 million payout over two years, per Sportac. The only other running backs with higher two-year cash outputs are San Francisco 49ers' Christian McCaffrey ($30.5 million) and Tennessee Titans' Derrick Henry ($26 million). The Giants have the option to franchise tag Barkley again next year.

According to a report from the NY Post, the incentives, each $303,000 (1,350 yards rushing, 65 catches, 11 total touchdowns) are all also tied to the Giants making the playoffs.

A one-year deal was the only other option for Barkley sans signing the team's franchise tag, given that he and the Giants missed the mid-July window to sign a long-term deal. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/giants-and-saquon-barkley-agree-to-terms-on-a-1-year-deal-rb-will-report-to-training-camp/

[BurntOrange&White 41857]

22 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

It's a sport that ruins your body for life you dumb motherfucker. You play it for 5 years if you're lucky and your body is never ever the same. If you want these goliaths to keep entertaining your dumb ass at the expense of their long term health you'd better make sure they're square financially.

 

This is a discussion that has been happening for a long time now and it's one that is bad for the business of the NFL. To even have that perception out there that you are taking advantage of people and ruining their bodies and not compensating them fairly is bad for your business. God damn.

You literally answered why he isn’t getting a huge second contract with your first paragraph. Thanks 

[Js1 87179]

27 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Uhhh, I know people love their pets but a sick dog doesn’t excuse driving 140. 

For real. That’s not the excuse they think it is.  More likely to end up in a fatal crash and kill the dog than to get where he was trying to go a few min faster 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Js1

[Pam Cummings 9868]

7 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You literally answered why he isn’t getting a huge second contract with your first paragraph. Thanks 

Except for the entire fucking incentive to put your body through that is to get paid, which they now don't. 

[Sabalo 1008]

3 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You're better off arguing with a fencepost BOW. The fence post is more flexible.

[LTtxfan 50000]

 

 

Awesome...

[Vic Mackey 47953]

2 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Uhhh, I know people love their pets but a sick dog doesn’t excuse driving 140. 

Also, can they verify this story? Was the dog with him in the car? Was he going to meet the dog? Seems very odd. And he got pulled over for speeding at 3am going 140. 

Even if this story is true, you put yourself, anyone on the road and the dog (if with him in the car) life in danger. 

[TonyTexas 10764]

I’m beginning to think Pam Cummings is a Leigh Steinberg sock with a bunch of RBs on the client roster. 

[Vic Mackey 47953]

Herbert got paid. As expected.

[Carl Spackler 3615]

2 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Uhhh, I know people love their pets but a sick dog doesn’t excuse driving 140. 

I initially read the final sentence of that tweet as sarcasm, but, holy shit, maybe that was wishful thinking on my part.  Can't believe anyone would try to condone putting other people at risk just for a sick dog.  Sounds to me like he was trying to come up with an excuse -- any excuse -- to give to the LEO to rationalize driving like a complete fucking idiot.  

[LTtxfan 50000]

COSTA MESA, Calif. - The Los Angeles Chargers and quarterback Justin Herbert have agreed to terms on a five-year, $262.5 million contract extension, sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter. The deal comes a day before the Bolts open training camp and keeps Herbert, 25, under contract in L.A. through the 2029 season.

The deal includes $133.7 million fully guaranteed, $193.7 million with an injury guarantee and jumping potentially to $218.7 million guaranteed, sources tell ESPN.

The team announced a multiyear extension for their franchise quarterback but did not disclose specific terms.

Herbert becomes the third quarterback this offseason to agree to a blockbuster extension following new deals between the Philadelphia Eagles and Jalen Hurts (Five years, $255 million) and the Baltimore Ravens and Lamar Jackson (Five years, $260 million).

Herbert's deal makes him the highest-paid quarterback in NFL history based on average annual value.

"I sleep better at night knowing we have a franchise quarterback," Chargers general manager Tom Telesco said at the end of last season. "He's done so much already in his young career, yet we all know there's still a lot there because of his commitment to the game."

Herbert has surpassed several significant statistical NFL milestones since he was selected with the sixth overall pick in 2020 and last season led the Chargers to their first playoff appearance since 2018.

In three seasons Herbert is 25-24 with a playoff loss. He has passed for 14,089 yards, besting Andrew Luck for the most passing yards through a quarterbacks first three NFL seasons. He has completed 1,316 career passes, which also is the most in league history through a player's first three seasons. His 64 Total QBR is ranked fourth best in the NFL since his rookie season in 2020.

Herbert has thrown 94 career touchdowns, recording three consecutive seasons with at least 25 passing touchdowns - putting his name alongside Hall of Famer Peyton Manning's as the only quarterbacks to accomplish such feats at the outset of their careers.

Despite two seasons remaining on his rookie deal, the Chargers opened negotiations with Herbert on a long-term extension shortly after the 2022 season when he became eligible.

Earlier this offseason at the NFL Annual Meeting in Phoenix, coach Brandon Staley expressed confidence that Herbert would remain with the team for "a long time."

"We're so excited that he is leading our franchise," Staley said. The Chargers' ability to strike a deal with Herbert before opening training camp ensures that the organization not only has their most important player under contract into the foreseeable future but will allow for the team to focus solely on earning a repeat postseason appearance, something they have not accomplished since making four consecutive playoff appearances from 2006 to 2009.

This season Herbert will be under the direction of new offensive coordinator Kellen Moore, who joins the Bolts after four seasons as the Dallas Cowboys offensive coordinator, where his unit ranked in the top four in points per game (27.7), yards per game (391) and third-down conversion percentage (44%).

Herbert also will have at his disposal a plethora of playmakers, including receivers Keenan Allen and Mike Williams, first-round pick Quentin Johnston, as well as running back Austin Ekeler, who last season led the NFL with 18 touchdowns.

Herbert was scheduled to earn $4.23 million in the fourth season of his rookie contract.

[Ignatius 4141]

2 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

It's a sport that ruins your body for life you dumb motherfucker

Spell it right mother fucker…

[LTtxfan 50000]

Austin Ekeler gonna be asking Herbert...

 

 

"Herbert also will have at his disposal a plethora of playmakers, including receivers Keenan Allen and Mike Williams, first-round pick Quentin Johnston, as well as running back Austin Ekeler, who last season led the NFL with 18 touchdowns."