Patrick Mahomes

[Vic Mackey 46932]

2 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Disclaimer: I don't do the Xs and Os too in-depth, but what has always stood out to me is that KC seems to play offense like a college team. And I think that's such a huge part of their success (along with Mahomes, who makes it run).

For so long it seemed that everyone said college offenses would never make it in the NFL. It never made sense to me. Now you are seeing it spread everywhere in the league. Remember when there used to be a question about a QB because they didn't play under center in college? How many plays do you see either team run under center last night apart from QB sneaks? 

 

Absolutely. We are seeing a lot of college aspects coming into the pro game. For so long, people said the NFL was too bland and close to the vest. Being too conservative. Now we are finally seeing more teams pass to set up the run. We are seeing a lot more misdirection and creative offensive gameplans. Hurts and the Eagles offense looked exactly what he ran at OU. All those years, they said this would never work in the NFL. Also, coaches are now starting to be much more aggressive. Going for it on more 4th downs instead of FGs and punts. I love the Eagles approach last night. They knew FGs and punts were not winning a game against Mahomes. Your offense has a higher chance to succeed than relying on special teams and defense.

The nFL as a whole right now has so much star power on offense. Speed, talent, fun to watch. The whole "defense wins championships" just isn't what it used to be. Sure, having a great defense is fine but you need a QB and an offense that can score. What you really need is more of an opportunistic defense. KC defense most the night had no idea how to stop Philly. But they got the scoop and score. A 3 and out and then a 17 play drive they held Philly to 3. All they needed. You don't need a defense that is going to smother teams all game long. The game is gearing more and more towards the 7 on 7 mentality. Letting your star players make plays and passing much more.

[tx 3 putt 76314]

With Brady retired, he’s the new #1 

id take him in heart beat over rodgers 

[gernblansten 3187]

59 minutes ago, Trojan Man said:

It's a reasonable assumption that somebody using the phrases "pass happy league that gives offenses every advantage" and "bubble wrapped QB" is making a "back in my day we walked uphill both ways to get to school" argument about how the sport was much more difficult back in the day.  I'm pointing out that the changes to the sport making certain parts of the game easier for QBs also make other parts of the game harder.  Again, how often were legendary QBs of the past in a situation where they had to score every time they had the ball in the second half to win the Super Bowl?  A lot of Super Bowl lore is built around one clutch drive winning the game.  Mahomes had to play an entire clutch second half to win.

You're right, 5 years into a career means his story is far from over.  However, Mahomes' age should be seen as a point in his favor rather than against.  At this point in Mahomes' career he is outpacing everyone not named Tom Brady, and if Mahomes wins one more ring in the next decade that catches him up with Brady at the same points in their careers.  It's football so the possibility of an injury that ends his career or turns him into a much less effective player always exists, but short of that worst case scenario I have a hard time seeing Mahomes not winning a few more rings.  I don't think he'll get to 7 rings, but given what kind of player Mahomes is and how well his franchise is run 4-5 rings feels more likely than not.

You think Mahomes is currently a top 3, 5, or 10 QB in the history of the NFL. I think it's too early to place him there. If you want to keep posting about the second half of last night's game, feel free.

[Al_4_ISU 12409]

14 hours ago, Hank Chinaski said:

I think QBs in general are overrated. That’s just how it is, always has been and always will be. We give them credit for Super Bowl wins, which has always been weird to me. (Does Pete Carroll deciding not to punch it in with Marshawn Lynch make Brady a better QB?)

I like watching the line play, and KC’s OL was phenomenal tonight. They get the game ball. 

Mahomes is great, has always reminded me of Elway. I don’t think that if he wins a third Super Bowl that that means he’s necessarily better than Elway - that’s a weird metric to me if we’re talking about how good a player is. 

I agree with a lot of this.  I'd put Mahomes in the Top 5 based less off the number of Super Bowls he's won, and more about the way he can throw the football, read the field, and extend plays with his legs.  He combines those 3 things probably better than anyone else ever has.  Brady was the uber competitor with an incredible grasp of the game.  Manning knew the game and could read the field better than anyone.  Mahomes's ability to throw the ball the way he does might be the only area where he's ahead of everyone else, but he's elite at all other facets of the position to boot.

But the reality is most of the world does judge QBs by what they win at the end of the day, and Mahomes helped his legacy a lot last night.

[Nivek 16851]

4 hours ago, Uncle Nate said:

I am as big of a Mahomes fan as there is, but I do think we should wait until he's at least old enough for that next big car insurance discount before we start hiring the Mt. Rushmore of Football sculptors.

 

He acknowledged DJ Johnson.   Shit if he made a remark about Jamal Charles we might put up our own statue of him. 

[BurntOrange&White 39614]

29 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

With Brady retired, he’s the new #1 

id take him in heart beat over rodgers 

I think him and Burrow are the class of the nfl with guys like Allen, Herbert and Hurts behind them. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[Satchel 6908]

2 hours ago, Uncle Nate said:

It begs the question...how much of an influence is Eric Bienemy?

I interpreted Reid’s comments about Bienemy shortly after the game ended to be a full throated endorsement of his preparedness to be a head coach. 

[SHOOTER12 8788]

38 minutes ago, gernblansten said:

You think Mahomes is currently a top 3, 5, or 10 QB in the history of the NFL. I think it's too early to place him there. If you want to keep posting about the second half of last night's game, feel free.

While I agree it's way too early, he's definitely on the right trajectory to become one of the all time greats.

[Zeus 5947]

He's the current best QB in the league with Andy Reid.

Curious to see how he does after Andy retires. 

Some of those guys were wide open with nobody within 10 yards especially down on the goal line. Pat's improvisation is great but the system is taking care of the bulk of heavy lifting. Did throw a pretty ball over the shoulder to Kelsey though. 

[Uncle Nate 2097]

Just now, Zeus said:

He's the current best QB in the league with Andy Reid.

Curious to see how he does after Andy retires. 

Some of those guys were wide open with nobody within 10 yards especially down on the goal line. Pat's improvisation is great but the system is taking care of the bulk of heavy lifting. Did throw a pretty ball over the shoulder to Kelsey though. 

It always amazes me how TE's like Kelce, Gronk, Witten, Gonzalez, etc. could always find ways to be open.  I mean, they are the biggest damn guy running past the LOS and still defenses find ways to lose them.

[Zeus 5947]

1 minute ago, Uncle Nate said:

It always amazes me how TE's like Kelce, Gronk, Witten, Gonzalez, etc. could always find ways to be open.  I mean, they are the biggest damn guy running past the LOS and still defenses find ways to lose them.

It's tricky because they are hiding on the inside pretending to be linemen sometimes 😉

[BurntOrange&White 39614]

7 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

It always amazes me how TE's like Kelce, Gronk, Witten, Gonzalez, etc. could always find ways to be open.  I mean, they are the biggest damn guy running past the LOS and still defenses find ways to lose them.

Gronk said his blocking allowed him to be open. He prepared every play and made it look like he was run blocking in order to create his separation essentially. With Kelce it appears he's just really good at settling in zone or like he and Mahomes are playing playground football where he will just adjust his route how he sees during the play and with Mahomes ability to stretch the play out it works.


Witten and Gonzalez IMO are more like the Gronk style of getting open. 

 

They are all excellent route runners too, don't get that twisted at all. 

 

 

IMO Kelce is the best pass catching tight end maybe ever. I'd say Gronk is the best all around tight end when it comes to blocking and pass catching ever.

Edited February 13, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[Zeus 5947]

Just rewatched that first touchdown

Nice route running 

 

2:24

 

shed the jam, then made him slip with the out and up

shitty footing on the field helped  Roger Goodell rigged it by getting the turf from okie lite he knew it would be shit

[Shoxthemonkey 1976]

2 hours ago, Uncle Nate said:

It begs the question...how much of an influence is Eric Bienemy?

Reid, twice, went out of his way to praise Bienemy for his contributions last night. So did Mahomes. I don't know if they are trying to get him a head coaching position, but I like him right where he is. I want him to replace Reid when that day comes.

Bijan will be gone long before KC picks but it would make me happy to have another UT RB in the fold. I am sick and tired of seeing Pacheco showboat after every 4 yard gain. It rankles my old man bones.

[BurntOrange&White 39614]

2 minutes ago, Shoxthemonkey said:

Reid, twice, went out of his way to praise Bienemy for his contributions last night. So did Mahomes. I don't know if they are trying to get him a head coaching position, but I like him right where he is. I want him to replace Reid when that day comes.

Bijan will be gone long before KC picks but it would make me happy to have another UT RB in the fold. I am sick and tired of seeing Pacheco showboat after every 4 yard gain. It rankles my old man bones.

I hope Bijan goes at like the 20-30 pick because I'd hate to see him get drafted by a shit team.

Buffalo would be nice for him as long as they sure up their offensive line.

[BurntOrange&White 39614]

 

 

Mahomes dad had them Joe Burrow's last week now it's that Philly blunts! haha

 

 

[Had Enough 2056]

Gronk was so big that defenders couldn’t fight through him to get to the ball. He also was agile enough to adjust as necessary. If you could isolate him on one dude, that dudes in trouble.

Gonzalez could go get it with the agility of basketballer. Big enough and quick enough.

Kelce seems a bit like Gonzalez. And Reid is pretty good at scheming him for favorable opportunities. He and Mahomes are on the same wavelength.

Their agility for their size and ball skills really are unique.

[tx 3 putt 76314]

56 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I think him and Burrow are the class of the nfl with guys like Allen, Herbert and Hurts behind them. 

All those qb’s have leap frogged the qb in Dallas 

[shadow_operative 15932]

9 hours ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

suppose the mediocre Jimmy G doesn't miss the bomb in Q4 of the SB a few years ago and the Niners win. Suppose Hurts doesn't fumble 6.  PM is 0-3 in the big game and this high praise evaporates, or doesn't exist at all.  Give it another 3-5 years before this becomes a serious talk. Joe Burrow might bring the gold in the meantime.  It's a long way to go. 

suppose patrick mahomes was born a small dog who lacks the opposable thumbs to grip a football. suppose patrick mahomes sr. was hit by a car and killed when he was 12 and pat mahomes ii never existed. suppose hitler didn't have a mangled micropenis and WWII never happened.

what the fuck are you even talking about?!?

[Satchel 6908]

Interesting:

The Super Bowl quarterbacks joined 49ers QB Brock Purdy, Dolphins QB Skylar Thompson, and Seahawks QB Geno Smith to make up the most represented conference at the quarterback position in the 2023 playoffs:

https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2023/02/10/patrick-mahomes-jalen-hurts-show-big-12-some-love-at-super-bowl-media-day/

[lilMAC25 3777]

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

All those qb’s have leap frogged the qb in Dallas 

Yes.

[Irieguy 1059]

3 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

With Brady retired, he’s the new #1 

id take him in heart beat over rodgers 

[Irieguy 1059]

3 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

With Brady retired, he’s the new #1 

id take him in heart beat over rodgers 

Thank you for letting us know you would take the 27 year old league MVP over a 39 year old QB who threw 26 TDs and 12 INTs this year. @tx 3 putt

[tx 3 putt 76314]

I’d take him over prime rodgers 

mahomes is a leader, rodgers never was 

Edited February 13, 2023 by tx 3 putt

[Texzilla58 4717]

suppose the mediocre Jimmy G doesn't miss the bomb in Q4 of the SB a few years ago and the Niners win. Suppose Hurts doesn't fumble 6.  PM is 0-3 in the big game and this high praise evaporates, or doesn't exist at all.  Give it another 3-5 years before this becomes a serious talk. Joe Burrow might bring the gold in the meantime.  It's a long way to go. 

We can say this about just about anyone. And you have to deal with recency bias and changes to the game. No way Brady plays this long with rules Bradshaw played under. Mahomes is 2-1. Could have been 0-3 and looking to displace jim Kelly.

I tend to look at QBs for leadership and putting teams on their back. Bart Starr would get smashed into the hard pan by Deacon Jones and have to get up and call a play in the huddle. Bradshaw might have been the last QB to call his own plays.

So I don’t rank them

Otto Graham
Sammy Baugh
Bart Starr
Unitas
Bradshaw
Staubach
Montana
Marino
Aikman
Favre
Brady
P Manning
Brees

Where they end up ?
Mahomes
Burrow

[59 Burst 434]

I like watching Mahomes. He brought something exciting to the pro game. 
I also believe he is good to go until Reid retires. He was the perfect match for Mahomes. 

[Vic Mackey 46932]

I’d take him over prime rodgers 
mahomes is a leader, rodgers never was 

Prime Rodgers was nothing more than a regular season QB outside of one year. He made the Super Bowl once. Mahomes has been to 3x as many and won twice as many in his first 5 seasons. Mahomes even before this Super Bowl was better than Rodgers. Mahomes played up to his ability come playoff time. Rodgers was good at beating Dallas shitty defense a few times. His lone NFC championship win was when he played like dogshit and the Bears were playing their 4th string QB from Forney,TX.

Hell I'll take playoff Eli Manning over playoff Rodgers.

The mystique of Rodgers has long worn off.

[tx 3 putt 76314]

And he’s a huge douche 

[Sawbonz 27398]

IMO you can’t compare modern QBs to those of the 70’s and 80’s. Those guys would take more vicious hits in a season than Brady et al have over an entire career. Short of a freak catastrophic injury like Alex Smith there is no reason a qb with elite skills can’t play at a high level for 20 seasons. 

[brakeman 28227]

[redswingline 1057]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

IMO you can’t compare modern QBs to those of the 70’s and 80’s. Those guys would take more vicious hits in a season than Brady et al have over an entire career. Short of a freak catastrophic injury like Alex Smith there is no reason a qb with elite skills can’t play at a high level for 20 seasons. 

Absolutely. I remember around 2000? or so, they started changing rules to protect QBs. I wish I had the article, but SI did a story on it back in the day that the game suffered when a slew of starters getting knocked out. Games were boring, sloppy and not fun to watch. Wanting to protect their biggest investment the owners made rules changes and the pussification began. I call it the flag football era for QBs

[Irieguy 1059]

7 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

We can say this about just about anyone. And you have to deal with recency bias and changes to the game. No way Brady plays this long with rules Bradshaw played under. Mahomes is 2-1. Could have been 0-3 and looking to displace jim Kelly.

I tend to look at QBs for leadership and putting teams on their back. Bart Starr would get smashed into the hard pan by Deacon Jones and have to get up and call a play in the huddle. Bradshaw might have been the last QB to call his own plays.

So I don’t rank them

Otto Graham
Sammy Baugh
Bart Starr
Unitas
Bradshaw
Staubach
Montana
Marino
Aikman
Favre
Brady
P Manning
Brees

Where they end up ?
Mahomes
Burrow

You have 10 QBs ranked higher than Brady?

[South Austin 52127]

10 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

IMO you can’t compare modern QBs to those of the 70’s and 80’s. Those guys would take more vicious hits in a season than Brady et al have over an entire career. Short of a freak catastrophic injury like Alex Smith there is no reason a qb with elite skills can’t play at a high level for 20 seasons. 

It's not only the rules changes that reduce the punishment QBs take, but it's also (1) medical advances that can get an injured player back on the field quicker, and (2) better diet and training to help QBs withstand the physical grind of an NFL career.

You hypothetically take 1970s Terry Bradshaw and put him in today's NFL, and he doesn't play at a high level for 20 years without the other two components. 

[Sawbonz 27398]

34 minutes ago, South Austin said:

It's not only the rules changes that reduce the punishment QBs take, but it's also (1) medical advances that can get an injured player back on the field quicker, and (2) better diet and training to help QBs withstand the physical grind of an NFL career.

You hypothetically take 1970s Terry Bradshaw and put him in today's NFL, and he doesn't play at a high level for 20 years without the other two components. 

Of course evolving training methods, nutrition and medical care contribute but they would happen anyway. The rules changes are the main driver. Look at running back and linebacker and DB longevity over the same time period. 
 

also obligatory 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Sawbonz

[BurntOrange&White 39614]

44 minutes ago, South Austin said:

It's not only the rules changes that reduce the punishment QBs take, but it's also (1) medical advances that can get an injured player back on the field quicker, and (2) better diet and training to help QBs withstand the physical grind of an NFL career.

You hypothetically take 1970s Terry Bradshaw and put him in today's NFL, and he doesn't play at a high level for 20 years without the other two components. 

I hate when people make this argument. Going to act like you’re just going to throw them in the old generation at peak modern times. 
 

 

when you make these comparisons make it both ways. Would a modern athlete be what they are in the 70s and 80s medical, physical, and etc? Conversely how would older athlete fair growing up with the modern training, science, and etc?

 

 

You just don’t swap a generation without applying all the same standards of that generation to a player. 
 

 

it’s my opinion that the truly great ones would be at the top regardless of era because at a certain point it isn’t about skill or talent it’s about the mental side of the game. 
 

 

[Texzilla58 4717]

You have 10 QBs ranked higher than Brady?

Did you miss where I said I didn’t rank them?

[Texzilla58 4717]

Absolutely. I remember around 2000? or so, they started changing rules to protect QBs. I wish I had the article, but SI did a story on it back in the day that the game suffered when a slew of starters getting knocked out. Games were boring, sloppy and not fun to watch. Wanting to protect their biggest investment the owners made rules changes and the pussification began. I call it the flag football era for QBs

It’s not pussification. It’s protecting the product. There are barely 32 QBs worthy of starting in the league. It used to suck watching your season collapse with a QB laying in a lump on the field. It sucked when 2/3 of the starting QBs were out hurt. I also didn’t like crackback blocks (tore out my knee in HS getting one of those ending my playing). Or WRs being mugged so bad that pass completions were a rarity. I don’t think protecting players from lifelong brain injury is bad. I loved Dick Butkus and Bob Lilly and Deacon Jones but the game wasn’t sustainable with that level of violence and injury.

[Texzilla58 4717]

Of course evolving training methods, nutrition and medical care contribute but they would happen anyway. The rules changes are the main driver. Look at running back and linebacker and DB longevity over the same time period. 
 
also obligatory 
 

A Fresca and a Chesterfield. The perfect SB halftime snack.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Of course evolving training methods, nutrition and medical care contribute but they would happen anyway. The rules changes are the main driver. Look at running back and linebacker and DB longevity over the same time period. 
 

also obligatory 

 

That photo is so great, not just for the smoke, see also Charlie Hough; but a freaking Fresca is what made Lenny D and the boys keep matriculatin' that ball down the field?  

[Uncle Nate 2097]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

That photo is so great, not just for the smoke, see also Charlie Hough; but a freaking Fresca is what made Lenny D and the boys keep matriculatin' that ball down the field?  

Well, a beer would have been inappropriate at halftime.

Anybody else remember the gatorade commercial a few years back highlighting this old KC team (and EJ Holub as I recall).  I guess Len decided to stick with what works for him instead, lol.

[Vic Mackey 46932]

[Irieguy 1059]

6 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

Did you miss where I said I didn’t rank them?

I don’t get the value of your post then. Just listing the top 15 QBs? We all have the same group. 

[Texzilla58 4717]

I don’t think you can compare Bart Starr to Montana to Brady. Only the best of their eras. Would Brady be as good as Otto Graham in the 50’s? Or vice versa? Two different games.

Sammy Baugh was slinging a ball that equates to a beach ball. Also led league in INTs and punting. When a man was a fucking man. Or Graham playing with guys who were on Iwo Jima or Normandy.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

On 2/12/2023 at 10:38 PM, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

Elway carried a talentless franchise to 1980s superbowls. 

The "Broncos had no talent" argument is a bit disingenuous.

Those 80s Broncos teams may have not been on par with the 80s 49ers or Giants, but they were very good; it's just that the NFC teams were generally better and there were a few all-time great teams that nobody was going to beat.

And the 1987 Broncos were definitely considered one of the best team in the NFL that year and were a 3-point favorite in the Super Bowl over the Redskins. It's not like they were playing against some juggernaut or all-time great team like there were in their other two 80s Super Bowls ('89 49ers and '86 Giants). They were playing a good (but not great) Washington team with their backup QB starting. 

The Broncos (and Elway specifically with 3 INTs) just totally shit the bed in that game.

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by oSuJeff97

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1291]

Mahomes is just the 12th quarterback to win 2 or more super bowls, so I don't really think top 10 all time talk is all that outrageous. He's started 5 seasons and played in 5 AFC championship games. He's never had to play a road playoff game. He's been to 3 super bowls, winning 2. That's ridiculous.

[Richard Kimball 1492]

23 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

Mahomes is just the 12th quarterback to win 2 or more super bowls, so I don't really think top 10 all time talk is all that outrageous. He's started 5 seasons and played in 5 AFC championship games. He's never had to play a road playoff game. He's been to 3 super bowls, winning 2. That's ridiculous.

If Clark Hunt had any vision, he'd do what a REAL owner does, and fire Andy Reid for hogging all the attention and bring in Barry Switzer to start coaching. Course, if Lamar Hunt had any vision, he would have named his son Mike. 

[Crapinon 2250]

21 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

IMO you can’t compare modern QBs to those of the 70’s and 80’s. Those guys would take more vicious hits in a season than Brady et al have over an entire career. Short of a freak catastrophic injury like Alex Smith there is no reason a qb with elite skills can’t play at a high level for 20 seasons. 

Like this guy

[Irieguy 1059]

1 hour ago, Texzilla58 said:

I don’t think you can compare Bart Starr to Montana to Brady. Only the best of their eras. Would Brady be as good as Otto Graham in the 50’s? Or vice versa? Two different games.

Sammy Baugh was slinging a ball that equates to a beach ball. Also led league in INTs and punting. When a man was a fucking man. Or Graham playing with guys who were on Iwo Jima or Normandy.

Oh you are old and stuck in the past. Got it. 

[StassneyHorn 6536]

Question for the olds

… I know Pittsburg D carried Bradshaw  is always the story. But what kind of playoff QB was he? Did a quick Super Bowl search and had like a 112 rating which seems crazy for a guy that threw as many TDs and Interceptions even if a lot came early in the career.

[redswingline 1057]

12 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

It’s not pussification. It’s protecting the product.

it's both. protecting the product resulted in pussification for that position.