NCAA Clock-Rule Proposals

[Huckleberry 32685]

And the best radical idea to control length of games is simple - a running clock. 

40 minute running clock for each quarter and a 20 minute halftime (or play with those numbers if you're okay with slightly longer). Done, three hours on the nose. You still have play clocks, etc. for the flow of the game. And to make it to where a team can't stall with the lead at the end of the game you make a delay of game penalty with the lead under 5 minutes an automatic turnover. There would obviously be a lot of other kinks to work out (intentional holding to stall, mostly late game stalling issues) but I'm surprised that the XFL or someone hasn't done this*.

*Editor's note - the author doesn't watch the XFL or someone so has no idea if this has already been done

[TornACL 7673]

I think every level of football should have an "eye in the sky" staff member who can immediately look at a play.

And if he overturns an incorrect call on the field, he has a little button that delivers an electric shock to the on field referee who blew the call.

[Beau Vine 53964]

1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

They simply need to adopt the NFL clock rules, except the 2 minute warning and be done with it.  As a tradeoff eliminate the targeting rule as it is now (you can still call it as 15 yard unsportsmanlike but make it the same where you need two in a game to get ejected).  Klatt has been banging that drum for years, that if it is REALLY about player safety you fix it by reducing the number of plays over the season.

 

So if we play less football, that's a tangible player safety fix?  Got it.

[Huckleberry 32685]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

So if we play less football, that's a tangible player safety fix?  Got it.

Yeah, my reaction as well. 

Mark Joel Klatt as in favor of 8 minute quarters and 6 game seasons. 

[Beau Vine 53964]

1 hour ago, Uncle Nate said:

Worst thing about college football right now is the amount of time they spend reviewing plays.  I would like to see college football adopt the NFL's rules for reviewing plays instead of having the replay official buzz down whenever they feel like they need to interject themselves into the game.

They absolutely have to go to a system where reviews are coach-initiated.  About half of the reviews seem to be for stuff that neither coach would ask to be reviewed if they have a limited number of challenges.

 

27 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

I have gotten to where I set it up at the start of the game and pause it.  Then I go do something else for a while, and when i return, I can fast forward through the commercials and replay shit.  I usually FF through the halftime drivel too, stopping for the updates on other games.  

 

Same.

Quote

It means I can't get involved with the game thread, so there is that downside.

That's a downside?  I disagree.

[Surly Bevo 24692]

2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

So if we play less football, that's a tangible player safety fix?  Got it.

Are you arguing that if the 133 FBS schools each reduced 100-150 minor car wreck-type collisions each in a season with 13-15K fewer car wrecks there would likely be more or the same number of injuries?  

[Beau Vine 53964]

43 minutes ago, Blotto said:

There is just a lot of fucking around time built into todays game. 

Next time you watch an old game, like the 1969 Arkansas game, pay attention to how quickly the ball gets spotted and the play clock started -- the ref will literally be running to get the ball spotted.  

I used to work with a Big 12 ref on his real job, and I brought that up to him one time.  He said that he's too old to run to get the ball spotted and that once he does, he'll wait a couple of seconds and then look to each sidelines before he whistles the play clock to start.  I asked him why, and he said that if he does it too quickly at least one of the coaches will yell at him.

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

Looking through our season this year I'll cherry pick some games to. 

Total stoppages for 1st Downs(All Games): 194


If you on average have 10 per game at the end of half you still have roughly 154 first down plays where there won't be a stoppage. That is substantial. 

[Beau Vine 53964]

5 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Are you arguing that if the 133 FBS schools each reduced 100-150 minor car wreck-type collisions each in a season with 13-15K fewer car wrecks there would likely be more or the same number of injuries?  

I'm not arguing anything.  

I've just never seen a business that openly admits that it should deliver less of its product because its product is dangerous.   That seems like it should come up in lawsuits.

[Blotto 23418]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

Next time you watch an old game, like the 1969 Arkansas game, pay attention to how quickly the ball gets spotted and the play clock started -- the ref will literally be running to get the ball spotted.  

I used to work with a Big 12 ref on his real job, and I brought that up to him one time.  He said that he's too old to run to get the ball spotted and that once he does, he'll wait a couple of seconds and then look to each sidelines before he whistles the play clock to start.  I asked him why, and he said that if he does it too quickly at least one of the coaches will yell at him.

yeah thats kind of what i was thinking of. I also have to think there's a better way of managing down yardage than the stupid fucking chains. and the delay every time they need to bring the chains out to measure, etc...

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

53 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Not really, at least according to SI

https://www.si.com/college/2023/02/20/college-football-shorter-game-rules

I question this stat, but presumably someone looked into it. There is just a lot of fucking around time built into todays game. 

 

So lets go with the middle here and say 8....that's 96 plays over the course of a 12 game season which is basically a game and a half worth of plays taken out.

[Surly Bevo 24692]

15 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I'm not arguing anything.  

I've just never seen a business that openly admits that it should deliver less of its product because its product is dangerous.   That seems like it should come up in lawsuits.

Ok, I can see that.  That said I don't know if that completely tracks across all industries.  Take banks for instance.  Loans as a product can be inherently dangerous to them and the customer.  There are all sorts of rules in place to try to avoid that danger, and usually shit goes sideways when the rules either are not good enough or get flat-out broken.  

Even in entertainment...there seems to be an agreement that a Quentin Tarantino flick isn't really made for a certain younger audience without some guardrails in place. And when they slap that R rating on it, they know they are not going to deliver as much product.  

Now yea, agree that there is the problem of "how long did you know this before you did anything about it".

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Surly Bevo

[Dewey 3280]

I'm in favor of doing away with replay, giving these idiot officials a second chance to look at anything has proven detrimental, now we don't know what a catch is anymore.

 

As for time, adopt the NFL approach and move on. 

[Vic Mackey 46919]

2 hours ago, Uncle Nate said:

Like Mike Leach always said, "I just don't understand why the powers-that-be think fans want less football rather than more."

Except in college, we aren't getting more football, just longer durations to finish the game, which isn't the same. Watching college football has become a beating. Games are normal to go 3.5 hours. Sometimes even 4. 2 hour first halves are the norm. It's getting ridiculous. This started once they let unlimited reviews come into play. The game has also become very pass happy across the board and the QBs just aren't as effective as the pro QBs so you get a ton of incompletions which stop play. Combined with the always in place clock stops after 1st downs and out of bounds.

College football know they have a problem with these game times, which is why they are trying to fix it. Except they are going about it the wrong way. All they need to do is adapt the NFL rules of the clock and challenge system and problem solved. Each team gets 2 challenges per game and all scoring plays and turnovers are challenged. Nothing else. I have watched games where 3 plays in a row are challenged. Where one single play is ran in 20 minutes of real time. 

You can set your watch to an NFL game finishing in a 3 hour window barring overtime or some other long delay. College game just drags on and on. We are just seeing more standing around with the clock stopped than actual gameplay. The actual game time is still 60min like the pros. 

They tried this in 2006 and ceased it pretty quickly. Where the clock stops on kickoffs and then right after the ball is spotted after kickoffs. So even nearly 20 years ago, they saw a change to pace of play needed to be addressed. But they keep trying these goofy ways instead of just adopting exactly how the NFL handles the clock and reviews. 

[Nueces River Rat 5528]

Rig 12 games have to be the longest in College football.   We've become accustomed to this thanks the incompetence of the officials on the field and the booth.  

['stache 21743]

54 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

And the best radical idea to control length of games is simple - a running clock. 

40 minute running clock for each quarter and a 20 minute halftime (or play with those numbers if you're okay with slightly longer). Done, three hours on the nose. You still have play clocks, etc. for the flow of the game. And to make it to where a team can't stall with the lead at the end of the game you make a delay of game penalty with the lead under 5 minutes an automatic turnover. There would obviously be a lot of other kinks to work out (intentional holding to stall, mostly late game stalling issues) but I'm surprised that the XFL or someone hasn't done this*.

*Editor's note - the author doesn't watch the XFL or someone so has no idea if this has already been done

I'm okay with that in theory, but we already have a problem of fake injuries, and I don't want anything to do with refs determining stoppage time.  Also, wouldn't the fourth rule get you fairly close? It already runs after out of bounds after the ball is reset, it would do the same for incomplete passes. Incomplete passes seem to be the only hard clock stoppages left outside of timeouts, turnovers, scores, and some penalties. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by 'stache

[Nueces River Rat 5528]

2 hours ago, Deej said:

Maybe just fix the problem of incessant and overly long replay reviews?

This is ALOT of it.      These new rules MIGHT shave a few minutes off a game if the long reviews are not addressed as part of a fix.  

[Hagbard Celine 10734]

2 hours ago, Uncle Nate said:

I'm talking number of plays, not necessarily length.

Worst thing about college football right now is the amount of time they spend reviewing plays.  I would like to see college football adopt the NFL's rules for reviewing plays instead of having the replay official buzz down whenever they feel like they need to interject themselves into the game.

this is the #1 problem

the way college reviews plays is comically bad

atrociously stupid

beyond comprehension given the technology available in 2023

retarded review process = found money for the networks

the way the english prem does reviews for offside and goals from a remote command center in london is exquisite, modern, and appropriate

relying on incompetent camera crews and production trucks to serve up blurware on iphones in a hood that the umpire takes 3 minutes to waddle over to watch for 3 minutes to make the call that was instantaneously apparent in real-time is simply inexcusable

block in 1 extra 30-second spot in every break and pay for world-class replay and remote decision support

get the onfield zebras OUT of the equation = 15 minutes of our lives back and games that don't run over EVERY FUCKING WEEK

[Hookem2147 20910]

The biggest change that needs to be made, and maybe this can only be done for P5 games cuz of replay resources, is they need to move to what the NFL did this year where they could expedite replay reviews without having the stop the game.

The person in the booth would be able to talk directly in the refs ear to correct rulings that were easy to see. The ref wouldn’t have to stop the game. They would simply announce the new ruling and play would resume.

You would save 5-10 minutes a game by doing that in college with the amount of obvious reviews that take place.

edit: just saw @Uncle Nate mentioned it earlier. Completely agree.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Hookem2147

[Vertuzzi 1351]

2 hours ago, Helobious said:

The clock should stop after a first down in the NFL within 2 minutes of a half. How stupid is it that games are decided on the ability of 60 year old refs to hustle down and get the ball spotted.

How stupid is a team for running a sneak up the middle with only 14 seconds left and no timeouts?

[Hagbard Celine 10734]

2 hours ago, Bartles said:

NFL with only 32 teams is able to spend a ton of money on quick, professional replay systems and personnel. College has to account for C-USA stadiums with cables dangling out of the press box, and retired refs who never even learned how to FF/REV on a VCR.

point/counterpoint:

no one gives a flying fuck about the length of a CUSA game or the accuracy/efficacy of their review process

all the more reason for a 64-team breakaway in football

[Surly Bevo 24692]

42 minutes ago, Vertuzzi said:

How stupid is a team for running a sneak up the middle with only 14 seconds left and no timeouts?

[Beau Vine 53964]

1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Rig 12 games have to be the longest in College football.   We've become accustomed to this thanks the incompetence of the officials on the field and the booth.  

Has anyone ever seen game time broken down by conference?

Officials across all sports seem to have forgotten that one of their primary jobs is to keep the game moving along smoothly, with college basketball being the absolute worst.

[po elvis 2070]

Just get rid of the 4th quarter.

[AeroHorn 735]

Yep, the biggest change should be that there is a ref in the box with 4+ monitors showing different angles live. Whenever he/she sees a discrepancy, he/she buzzes in the correct answer. This can be done in less than 30 seconds, which means the plays continue as long as there is no incoming buzz. No need for a field ref to take a movie break.

Currently, the whole review is almost theatrical; with the ref ceremoniously announcing that there is going to be a review, then the majestic jog to the sidelines, the donning of the headphones and the slight crouching for an exclusive view that we, the peanut gallery, is not privy to, and finally the royal edict that proves that they are after all emperors without clothes, i.e., big 12 refs.

 

 

 

[Had Enough 2054]

If you can get them down to 3.5 hours, that’s probably ideal.

I don’t want less actual football. Meaning fewer plays. I want less screwing around.

Easy fixes - the real time officiating adjustments that the NFL used this year. When it comes replay time, the official keeps his ass on the field. The resolution is communicated to him on the field. When a replay or injury occurs, cut immediately to commercial. Increase the number of split screen commercials. Cut 5 minutes off halftime. I was thinking college halftimes are 8 minutes longer than the NFL. Replays have a time limit - tie it to commercial length. If it’s so damn close after 2-3 minutes that you still can’t tell, then the call on the field was reasonable.

I attend the games. My goal is to not rush home. I pay more money and spend more time than those that don’t. I won’t get charged less for tickets and don’t care to be rushed out after 3 hours. My opinion matters more than those that don’t attend. That’s damn valid whether some of you gimps like it or not.

If you’re sitting on your ass at home, record it and start watching 30 minutes late. Then you’ll realize it’s the commercials that take forever. But you can manage how long it takes to watch the game.

1 sounds good. 2 is a non-factor. 3 and 4 are not preferable.

[Jimbob 417]

5 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

The thing is with the amount networks are paying for these rights they're not cutting back ads at all, so anyone who brings that up should full stop. 

IMO rule 4 changes the game fundamentally as mentioned earlier. With rule 4 proposal how does that work on long incompletions including with play clocks and etc?

3 is the best way to speed up games without messing up too much of the game. The NFL runs that rule and their games are about 3 hrs to 3 hr 10 minutes, not including OT. It feels like most college games are 3hr 15min to 3:30 min. 

 

Speeding up the games also allow the networks to control the windows and such more so than a say game where we play Tech that starts at 2:30 and ends at 6 or 630.

Games won’t be shorter, just look at all the extra TV timeouts they can cut in!

Rule #4 could be helped in that regard if the team on offense is allowed to say we want to use THAT ball.   Remember when you were a kid and the long bomb went across the street, down the creek and into the drain pipe and someone had to crawl in and get it?  Not the same but it would allow more time for receivers to get back to LOS. 
 

3 most likely passes and has an impact. 

[Treefidy 1463]

The icing the kicker rule in no way reduces the number of plays or makes it safer for the players.  Shorten a game by 1 minute for sure.  Does not affect the play clock or play count in any way.  

[dcar00 14023]

6 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

If these pass, will need to have two sets of record books.  Pre-2023 and Post 2023.

they already allowed bowl stats to be counted in career stats and they don't show exceptions in the record book for those.  the NCAA has added games to seasons also.  some records are just never going to be broken based on these new rules.

[dcar00 14023]

we could do all of these OR we could just tell certain teams to quit scheduling an extra game with the little sisters of the poor and cut out a game.

I'd like the first down clock stop to start at 5 min left in game.

[BurntOrangeAss 91]

Let’s go to a soccer game type of clock.  2 45-minute halves and the clock doesn’t stop for anything.  90 minutes for game time and a 20 minute halftime.  Start to finish is less than 2 hours.  Get in and get out.  The game is shortened and college football is now completely fucked.  Then let’s go back to a 10-game schedule.  Less injuries with less games.

[Deej 76510]

4 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

So lets go with the middle here and say 8....that's 96 plays over the course of a 12 game season which is basically a game and a half worth of plays taken out.

A lot fewer chances for Worthy to quit on a ball.

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

16 minutes ago, Deej said:

A lot fewer chances for Worthy to quit on a ball.

[Js1 85056]

7 hours ago, 'stache said:

I also wish the NCAA and NFL would coordinate on rules better. I just don't understand why there are such drastic differences in the rules

CFB and MCBB want to be different and the NCAA seemingly wont force them to align. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10134]

Wouldn't be a lot easier just to knock a couple minutes off each quarter? Instead of 15min play 12 like high school, etc.

[WBT 20397]

5 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Except in college, we aren't getting more football, just longer durations to finish the game, which isn't the same.

College games have about a third more plays per game than NFL.  The 1st down clock change would probably bring them pretty close together and the incomplete pass one would probably lead to fewer plays than in the NFL.

I wish they'd eliminate replay altogether in all sports.  The juice has never been worth the squeeze to me.  Bastardized compromise systems like the nfl where "the most important thing is we get it right" except only on some plays and not on others are the worst to me.

['stache 21743]

16 minutes ago, WBT said:

College games have about a third more plays per game than NFL.  The 1st down clock change would probably bring them pretty close together and the incomplete pass one would probably lead to fewer plays than in the NFL.

I wish they'd eliminate replay altogether in all sports.  The juice has never been worth the squeeze to me.  Bastardized compromise systems like the nfl where "the most important thing is we get it right" except only on some plays and not on others are the worst to me.

If you have to go extreme I’d go the other way, calls would be more accurate if all done from the booth using cameras. You’d only need someone to spot the ball and to maybe blow a play dead. Officials on the field miss stuff because they can only see limited things in real time. The same number of refs in the booth with immediate access to replay would get it right most of the time and faster. I mean we can all see false starts and off sides and even holding from the single camera view they broadcast. I think the hybrid system is fine in concept but poor in execution.

[Tex Long 4326]

tl;dr.

Here's the real answer. If the ball is ready for play, the clock is running. When the ball is not ready for play, it runs backwards, including when officials are holding/handling the ball or standing over it so that it clearly is unplayable. Who's got the over/under action on total time?

[bullet 1596]

9 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 

1-3 I have no issues with but 4 is just stupid.

2 is stupid.  1 is probably not necessary.  Just make the 2nd one a 30 second.

[bullet 1596]

9 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

They simply need to adopt the NFL clock rules, except the 2 minute warning and be done with it.  As a tradeoff eliminate the targeting rule as it is now (you can still call it as 15 yard unsportsmanlike but make it the same where you need two in a game to get ejected).  Klatt has been banging that drum for years, that if it is REALLY about player safety you fix it by reducing the number of plays over the season.

 

Well if you got rid of targeting, that would shorten the typical game by 10 minutes!

[LTtxfan 48928]

Another article...

 

[Zeus 5943]

Change the fucking rule where an 'injured' defender stops the game and gets to come back one (1) play later. It's fucking bullshit. Make em sit out the entire drive.

Player safety remember? 

Also fuck LSU 

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

Any fan watching tv who tunes in at kickoff deserves a 3-1/2 to 4 hours game. Set the DVR and start watching 1-1/2 hours after kickoff. If you don’t watch the halftime b.s., you will be caught up to live tv by the end of 3Q.

I know this isn’t optimal if you have friends over for a game watching party, but it’s great if you don’t. 

[WBT 20397]

People watch just 1 game? Commercials are when you flip around to the other 2-5 games that are on.

 

[Texzilla58 4715]

Plus limit the official reviews to a certain time and fire big 12 officials for reviewing and having meetings about obvious shit every other play. 
Their proposal is to "limit plays" not limit time of the game, so it's probably going to add commercials in somehow lol

The networks want a more predictive time for a game at 3 hours or so. These games have gotten ridiculous in their wild swings in time and games shifting from one network to another. “Folks if you’re looking for the fucking game that kicked off at 3 it’s over on ESPN xyz. Until it move back here when this four and half hour shitshow finally ends.

I have no issue with any of these rules. It gets rid of so much bullshit. No issue with 4. Spiking stops the clock to get a quick reset and run your play. It eliminates so much waiting on incomplete passes.

[Laga4 1270]

18 minutes ago, WBT said:

People watch just 1 game? Commercials are when you flip around to the other 2-5 games that are on.

 

So you can see what commercials are on during their timeouts. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

21 hours ago, 'stache said:

I also wish the NCAA and NFL would coordinate on rules better. I just don't understand why there are such drastic differences in the rules. Like one foot in bounds for a catch. Is the skill level really that different that two feet is too hard for college players or one foot is too easy for the NFL? Are kickers really so different that the hash marks need to be narrower in college? And basketball is the worst, I've never heard a coherent argument for why men's college basketball is stuck on two halves instead of four quarters. 

Ugh. 

The hash marks are narrower in the NFL. Reducing the difference in the field/boundary distinction in college doesn’t seem like an advantage. Why do you wish for that?

You really want spot fouls on defensive pass interference in college?

You want to change being down without contact in college?

Lord knows college football needs a good influx of the NFL’s fuckwittery of what’s a catch and what isn’t, right?

College football could use some improvement — reviews, especially — but I’m not sure that homogenization with the NFL is a benefit. 

[Jkwellborn 6649]

Option 4 fundamentally changes the game of football. I don't understand why college football needs a pace-of-play initiative like this

Because nick saban and the sec are still whiny bitches.

[Laga4 1270]

If all 4 pass it will make time outs more valuable. 
Probably take some of the 5yd penalties for delay of game rather than taking the TO.  
It will make the last drive to win the game harder with clock running on incompletions.  But as mentioned before it will be interesting to see how they deal with clocking the ball. 

['stache 21743]

1 hour ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Ugh. 

The hash marks are narrower in the NFL. Reducing the difference in the field/boundary distinction in college doesn’t seem like an advantage. Why do you wish for that?

You really want spot fouls on defensive pass interference in college?

You want to change being down without contact in college?

Lord knows college football needs a good influx of the NFL’s fuckwittery of what’s a catch and what isn’t, right?

College football could use some improvement — reviews, especially — but I’m not sure that homogenization with the NFL is a benefit. 

So I got the hashmarks backwards, of all the differences, this one makes the least sense. What is it about the college game that requires less room to the sideline? The rest have their reasons for either, I just wish they would agree. I tend to prefer the college rule on pass interference, but I get why some might want a spot foul to prevent DBs from just tackling a guy once their beat to avoid the longer penalty. Down without contact, yeah why not? Defenses are supposed to make tackles not rely on turf monsters. The catch/no catch problem exists in both leagues, tinkering with the wording of rules hasn't seemed to make any difference. It's the same game, why such different rules?