Psychedelic Therapy for mental health

[Dnaguy 12054]

Between ‘The Daily’ and ‘This week tonight’ it seems that the idea of using Psychedelic drugs to treat mental illness is having a moment. 

As someone who struggles with mental illness, I am super intrigued.

Anyone else have experience with this treatment? 
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-veterans-fighting-to-legalize-psychedelics/id1200361736?i=1000601085238
 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Dnaguy

[Homercles 10206]

No experience as treatment but grew a ton of my own psilocybin in college. Wonderful stuff…with the right people, mindset, setting, and care.  I have zero doubt that it could be used, correctly with a trained professional, to affect impactful change in a persons mental health.  The question has been legality and insane barriers to even develop protocol for it.  
 

I didn’t watch the video but I know MDMA has proven helpful in small doses with therapy, and I’m sure it’s the same for psychedelics.  
 

The way your senses change is indescribable, almost like you finally found the autofocus button for a brief spell…or found a hidden room in your house.  The most peaceful I’ve ever felt was watching the sunset while listening to Any Colour You Like on 5g with a close friend…and that memory of ‘everything will be all right’ still pops up in my mind occasionally. 
 

No doubt that would be useful to someone.  

[Captain Ron 12910]

No experience, but I heard about this a few years back. Here’s a podcast on it. 
 

https://gimletmedia.com/amp/shows/science-vs/76h8a7o

[RDCanecutter 26468]

Dave's not home, man.

[DixonHur 11364]

I had a therapy session with ketamine a few years ago and I felt like it really helped.

[Born to Run 6569]

Phone is gliching

[heso 2816]

[tomahawk dunk 339]

No experience with the treatment.

60 minutes did an episode just a few years back on Johns Hopkins psilocybin study that I thought was good. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/psilocybin-active-agent-in-magic-mushrooms-could-treat-addiction-depression-and-anxiety-60-minutes-2019-10-10/

After watching that I read "How to change your mind" by Michael Pollan which I also really enjoyed.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

I think that Pollan book has a show on Netflix or HBO

[Anastasis 23481]

There have been threads on this subject before. Didn't watch the whole thing, because my attention span doesn't allow, but Oliver hits on a few key points. The scheduling of these drugs suppressing the ability to do the research, and the need to marry drug therapy with psychotherapy. Ketamine, MDMA, psilocybin all show promise for various indications, but they need to be evaluated in proper research settings. The CSA scheduling is a big stand in the way of that. 

[mchookem 16375]

literally was a segment on this exact topic tonight on local Denver news. specifically... several middle-aged suburban women microdosing daily for anxiety, depression and debilitating PTSD (childhood sexual abuse). one called it 'alchemizing grief'.

psilocybin was fully decriminalized across CO in November. CU is starting an official study on mushroom therapy for late stage cancer patients. i recall the 60 Minutes story above included a late stage cancer patient who was absolutely terrified about dying, to where she was just consumed with fear and sadness...mushrooms helped her let go of all that, i recall her tranquil manner and smiling about it during the interview, saying she was ready now. 

definitely should be avoided if there's a history or family history of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. i could certainly imagine a trip triggering some terrible schizoid episode.

anyways... there's been enough anecdotal highlights of psychedelic dosing benefits particularly in controlled settings where formal study is certainly warranted.

the reported impact on addictions is absolutely mind-blowing and i think potentially the greatest impact. imagine those benefits across the opioid addicted masses in Appalachia! game changer. which, of course, means this country will never go that route 🙄

[Fudge Nuggets 19218]

There’s not enough shrooms in the world to fix the craziness of this country. 

[Pescado_Rojo 19428]

Jim Harris was paralyzed, then he ate magic mushrooms

Quote

Reveling in nature’s beauty is common for people on hallucinogens, but something surprising happened to Harris that night. He commandeered an acquaintance’s padded knee scooter so he could rest one leg at a time and still sway to the music. In the middle of a switch, he discovered that he could pick up his right foot and pull it back toward his butt. He tapped his right hamstring with a finger and the muscle contracted—a muscle that had been completely unresponsive since his injury, even in the low-gravity environment of a pool, despite eight months of physical therapy.

 

[SquishMitten 10426]

I have a friend who has greatly benefited from ayahuasca retreats. It's fascinating to hear him talk about his experiences and the benefits he's gotten from it, both mentally and physically. Like, he quit drinking and smoking. No longer needed anxiety medicine. No longer needed adderall. Had longtime physical injuries "cure" themselves. Absolutely wild stuff. To be clear, that wasn't from a single trip. The retreat is several days, and he's probably done it 4 or 5 times. So it's not an immediate cure for all of your problems, but at least for him, it was an extended journey of self-improvement. 

I'm doing my first retreat in May, and I'm really looking forward to it. 

[Celery Man 20996]

 

it's a regret of mine that I never tried psilocybin. I mean fuck, I have Be Here Now literally within arms reach of me at my desk right now. But given the alcoholism (and despite Bill W's later in life experimentation with acid) and the kid I just don't think I probably could. But I bet it would have been an altering experience.

[DaggerHorns 3085]

Everyone here does drugs.

Everyone here has mental issues.

There’s your sample size.

[Hammerin Hank 1227]

14 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

I think that Pollan book has a show on Netflix or HBO

I watched this recently, and enjoyed it. I believe it was on Netflix, and it was a 4 episode limited series with each episode about an hour runtime. They had interviews with patients that received the treatments that were very interesting 

Episode 1: LSD

Episode 2: Psylocibyn

Episode 3: MDMA

Episode 4: Mescaline 

[Homercles 10206]

2 hours ago, Celery Man said:

 

it's a regret of mine that I never tried psilocybin. I mean fuck, I have Be Here Now literally within arms reach of me at my desk right now. But given the alcoholism (and despite Bill W's later in life experimentation with acid) and the kid I just don't think I probably could. But I bet it would have been an altering experience.

I haven’t tripped in 15 years.  Would absolutely love to experience that with my wife…but I’d have be 500 miles away from my kids, with my phone locked up, nothing to do the next day and a few Xanax for emergencies/sleep.  Basically it’ll never happen unless we take a trip to Colorado sometime, I can find it, and start with a low dose like 2g maybe. 

[Sawbonz 27584]

I have a buddy that does IV ketamine infusions for PTSD. Mostly for vets of Iraq/Afghanistan wars. Anecdotally it is a miracle treatment. He has one SF guy who told him he wishes he could have had this treatment 20 years and 2 wives ago. Said he got more from his first treatment than all the years sitting in a circle talking about feelings combined 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

There’s not enough shrooms in the world to fix the craziness of this country. 

I find the mental health stuff in the world fascinating. I often wonder how much is a function of human lifestyle change. I'm not talking about the cancer patient fearing death or a soldier battling PTSD. But general anxiety issues in particular... is it rooted in how we live our lives today? It wasn't that long ago that we were a largely outdoor, agrarian society that had lots to do in order to survive. Today, that's largely flipped and I'm not so sure it's always for the better.

[Anastasis 23481]

2 hours ago, DaggerHorns said:

Everyone here does drugs.

Everyone here has mental issues.

New board motto?

[Celery Man 20996]

17 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I find the mental health stuff in the world fascinating. I often wonder how much is a function of human lifestyle change. I'm not talking about the cancer patient fearing death or a soldier battling PTSD. But general anxiety issues in particular... is it rooted in how we live our lives today? It wasn't that long ago that we were a largely outdoor, agrarian society that had lots to do in order to survive. Today, that's largely flipped and I'm not so sure it's always for the better.

my... armchair psychologist Dr. D Kruger take (similar to this) is that we've always had a lot of crazy but have spent much more of our energy fucking around the lower tiers of maslows hierarchy. A lot of shunning/warehousing the real nutcases and a big chunk of the unwashed masses were too busy digging up potatoes or whatever to read Eat Pray Love or form The Cure. I think we can be prone to think that people were actually healthier when they didn't have time to think about their happiness and that probably wasn't quite the case, but either way it's ultimately an extremely important area for us to improve.

[Kennythetiger 9446]

27 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I find the mental health stuff in the world fascinating. I often wonder how much is a function of human lifestyle change. I'm not talking about the cancer patient fearing death or a soldier battling PTSD. But general anxiety issues in particular... is it rooted in how we live our lives today? It wasn't that long ago that we were a largely outdoor, agrarian society that had lots to do in order to survive. Today, that's largely flipped and I'm not so sure it's always for the better.

My counselor thinks a very large part of this has to do with cell phones. We’ve made ourselves instantly accessible to those who want our attention, and they usually want it right now. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Big Pharma must ensure a plant that can be easily grown and administered 1 or 2 times doesn’t fix people.

 

[Pescado_Rojo 19428]

8 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Big Pharma must ensure a plant that can be easily grown and administered 1 or 2 times doesn’t fix people.

 

"Cures?! There's no money in cures! We need treatments!" 

[WhatTheBuck 28797]

I’ve only ever administered self-treatment and that has been quite rewarding. I’m sure a lot of people could benefit from the experience. It’s not for everybody. For some people, having a guide to lead them through the journey would probably be helpful. For me I feel like that would be restrictive. Bug off, man, and let me space out on the music! Being outside in nature is also nice. But mostly I’ve devoted that time to music. All of my favorite music can pass the acid test.

Here are my top 10 albums to listen to in an enhanced state (not necessarily in this order). Plus 2 more because it’s tough to limit it to 10.

Spoiler

You can’t go wrong with any of those.

 

[BrickHorn 18283]

If it makes Pink Floyd enjoyable, then psilocybin really is a miracle drug. 

[hookemATL 11848]

Just watched the whole Netflix series mentioned upthread. Really enjoyable, if only to watch people in deep suffering see relief and be able to find some measure of happiness. 
 

@WhatTheBuck thanks for the inspiration. I’m gonna go trip balls and put one of these on. 

[hookemATL 11848]

On 2/23/2023 at 2:36 PM, BrickHorn said:

If it makes Pink Floyd enjoyable, then psilocybin really is a miracle drug. 

Pos rep even though I vehemently disagree. 

[WhatTheBuck 28797]

1 minute ago, hookemATL said:

Just watched the whole Netflix series mentioned upthread. Really enjoyable, if only to watch people in deep suffering see relief and be able to find some measure of happiness. 
 

@WhatTheBuck thanks for the inspiration. I’m gonna go trip balls and put one of these on. 

If you’ve never listened to Twelve Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus, give it a shot. It’s a masterpiece. 

[Bigbend1812 12927]

 

You’re welcome psychos. 

[TwiceHorn 31534]

There's a non-drug therapy called EMDR, which uses disco strobes and lights and stuff to help with PTSD and trauma.

ECT, aka shock therapy, is considered valid these days, as it apparently "short circuits" the brain and lets it rewire itself in ways that alleviate depression/cause a hypomanic state.

There seems to be building evidence that basically fucking up the brain in a controlled, short-term way can be very beneficial.  

Interdasting stuff.

[Homercles 10206]

Until Chief kills you and then escapes out the window 

[SL Xpress 7518]

On 2/23/2023 at 1:55 PM, Celery Man said:

my... armchair psychologist Dr. D Kruger take (similar to this) is that we've always had a lot of crazy but have spent much more of our energy fucking around the lower tiers of maslows hierarchy. A lot of shunning/warehousing the real nutcases and a big chunk of the unwashed masses were too busy digging up potatoes or whatever to read Eat Pray Love or form The Cure. I think we can be prone to think that people were actually healthier when they didn't have time to think about their happiness and that probably wasn't quite the case, but either way it's ultimately an extremely important area for us to improve.

Then there's also the idea that society wasn't wealthy enough to keep alive people who were too much of a liability. 

Hunter/gatherer tribes had a lot more free time on their hands than later agrarian/domesticated animal tribes that came after them. But if for whatever reason you weren't able to contribute to the welfare of the tribe to enough of an extent, at some point the rest of the tribe stops supporting you and you either die, are killed, or are exiled. 

But if we believe mental health has a genetic component - and I absolutely believe it does - then it's a genetic component I feel was passed down by an ancestor long before homo sapiens. I've seen research that says chimpanzees and gorillas experience mental health issues as well, so that means a common ancestor up the chain. Anyone who has been around dogs or cats certainly feels like there are mental health aspects to those animals. If dolphins, whales, rats, or other mammals are shown to have mental health issues, then the genetic component for mental health is far up the evolutionary chain indeed. 

Which suggests the mental health issues we've identified are less about something new regarding human beings, and more about an exposure of conditions that have always existed but were not exposed or identified in the same way previously.

I'll also say I believe our knowledge of how the brain works, and its cause/effects are still rudimentary compared to what it will be 100 years from now. I believe future neuro specialists are going to look on with horror at the massive experimentation we've done in an effort to treat mental illness in ways we currently look on lobotomy or leeches. 

[SL Xpress 7518]

I'm a little surprised there's no mention of ayahuasca yet. The following behind it is almost cult like in terms of curing practically all the ills of humanity. I'm curious if there's anyone reading this thread who has either experienced it Jimi Hendrix style, or even better, shares in a belief in its efficacy as a type of miracle drug. 

I'll also say the best tripping experience I've ever had was going under with ketamine prior to surgery at Memorial/Hermann. It only lasted about an hour, but I still recall the sense of ecstasy I felt both during the experience and immediately following.

I tried LSD and mushrooms on multiple occasions in my youth. The LSD trips were frightening experiences where I felt locked into a state of mind that might last for the rest of my life, with no escape. The mushrooms had no effect on me, although the people around me had a good time. Later in life I was able to talk multiple people down from having bad trips based on my experiences, so no regrets. I do know I felt my brain forming connections it otherwise would not have, as pathways were stimulated that might not have been under normal circumstances. But it's not something I would choose to repeat. 

[TexPx 2323]

I haven’t tripped in 15 years.  Would absolutely love to experience that with my wife…but I’d have be 500 miles away from my kids, with my phone locked up, nothing to do the next day and a few Xanax for emergencies/sleep.  Basically it’ll never happen unless we take a trip to Colorado sometime, I can find it, and start with a low dose like 2g maybe. 

I’ve had some experience with:
LSD
Mescaline (from Peyote buttons)
Mescaline (synthesized)
Psilocybin
MDMA
In my experiences real MDMA is the best one to do with someone you love. Lasts about as long as shrooms but not as long as the others. For me it’s similar to Mescaline, visuals not as intense as the others but has a tactile element that is missing from the all the others.

[Homercles 10206]

Yeah I rolled quite a few times, but the comedown could be brutal even in my 20’s…I shudder to think of what it’d be like now at 42…though I expect I’d get talked to death by my wife before it even peaked.  

[Loop 1604 227]

[Degenerate Gardner 4085]

The Uncle Ben’s subreddit is quite the primer on growing mushrooms. It’s not exactly painting by numbers, but close to being that easy.

[Chopper 17244]

On 2/23/2023 at 12:04 PM, Homercles said:

I haven’t tripped in 15 years.  Would absolutely love to experience that with my wife…but I’d have be 500 miles away from my kids, with my phone locked up, nothing to do the next day and a few Xanax for emergencies/sleep.  Basically it’ll never happen unless we take a trip to Colorado sometime, I can find it, and start with a low dose like 2g maybe. 

You can find ketamine therapy in all 50 states and since it's already legal it just requires a doctor's prescription. Using it to treat depression or anxiety is simply an off-label use. A simple search for ketamine therapy + your city should bring up some relevant results. To find a reputable clinic, maybe start by searching your local reddit sub. It's already a big business and from what I've heard there are clinics that treat you fairly and others that treat you like a mark. To give it at least the veneer of professionalism, if not more, you do it either in private or in a group setting with a therapist who's there to help you through the trip. The group setting can make it more affordable.

I'm not interested in going on a psychedelic trip but I am a strong believer in the positive effects of psilocybin. As I posted here in some other thread on here about psychedelics, I have a neurological medical condition that doctors have been unable to diagnose but which has basically been driving me up a wall, mentally speaking. My acupuncturist suggested microdosing psilocybin (I'm in CO) and it's greatly improved my disposition and how I'm able to handle the lows by multitudes. It's helped me unlike any Rx that the many doctors have seen have suggested trying. Once I found a connection I shared it with a couple friends and they've told me how much it's helped them, as well.

It's also something you can relatively easily grow at home. No grow light needed.

[Chopper 17244]

2 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

The Uncle Ben’s subreddit is quite the primer on growing mushrooms. It’s not exactly painting by numbers, but close to being that easy.

This and also shroomery.org, which someone on surly recommended.

I tried one grow but fucked it up because let's just say I'm not a stickler for details. I haven't tried a second because I discovered how far $100 goes, at least here in CO, just for the raw product and microdoses.

[Homercles 10206]

Yeah sadly you need to be very careful, detail-oriented and incredibly clean when inoculating jars…else you’re creating a wonderful environment for all kinds of nasty shit to grow.  Once they’re fully covered in mycelium, the rest is (usually) very easy.  Sometimes, it still doesn’t work out.  

It’s been 20 years so maybe things have changed, but that was my experience.  I was also doing it in an apt on a students (non existent) income, I’m sure if it were legal it’d be a very inexpensive item to buy.  

[crony 362]

On 2/25/2023 at 8:06 PM, Bigbend1812 said:

 

You’re welcome psychos. 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=games.paveldogreat.fluidsimfree&hl=en_US≷=US&referrer=utm_source%3Dgoogle%26utm_medium%3Dorganic%26utm_term%3Dfluid+app&pcampaignid=APPU_1_dSP-Y9mbGOC4qtsPgaqJ2AU

[Js1 85556]

On 2/23/2023 at 8:54 AM, Pescado_Rojo said:

Jim Harris was paralyzed, then he ate magic mushrooms

Usually the opposite happens to me, but then it goes away after a while 

[Brisketexan 105296]

Walter Cronkite:
Do you have a question for the President?

Peter:
[on the phone] Uh.. I uh.. I took some acid.. I'm afraid to leave my apartment, and I can't wear any clothes.. and the ceiling is dripping, and uh..

Walter Cronkite:
Well, thanks you very much for calling, sir..

Jimmy Carter:
Just a minute, Walter, this guy's in trouble. I think I better try to talk him down. Peter?

Peter:
[on the phone] Yeah..?

Jimmy Carter:
Peter, what did the acid look like?

Peter:
[on the phone] They were these little orange pills.

Jimmy Carter:
Were they barrel shaped?

Peter:
[on the phone] Uh.. yes.

Jimmy Carter:
Okay, right, you did some orange sunshine, Peter.

Peter:
[on the phone] Very good of you to know that, sir.

Jimmy Carter:
How long ago did you take it, Peter.

Peter:
[on the phone] Uh.. I don't know. I can't read my watch.

Jimmy Carter:
Alright, Peter, just listen. Everything is going to be fine. You're very high right now. You will probably be that way for five more hours. Try taking some Vitamin B complex, Vitamin C complex.. if you have beer, go ahead and drink it.

Peter:
[on the phone] Okay..

Jimmy Carter:
Just remember you're a living organism on this planet, and you're very safe. You've just taken a heavy drug. Relax, stay inside, and listen to some music. Do you have any Allman Brothers?

Peter:
[on the phone] Yes, I do, sir. Everything is okay, huh Jimmy?

Jimmy Carter:
It sure is, Peter. You know, I'm against drug use myself, but I'm not going to lay that on you right now. Just mellow out the best you can, okay?

Peter:
[on the phone] Okay.

Jimmy Carter:
Okay!

[WhatTheBuck 28797]

I recall this stuff was pretty kickass as blotter goes. Nothing tops good, clean, liquid LSD. But other than some gel, or “window pane,” acid, this was some of the best I had.

[WhatTheBuck 28797]

If I could’ve found the t-shirt, I would’ve bought one.

[TexPx 2323]

I recall this stuff was pretty kickass as blotter goes. Nothing tops good, clean, liquid LSD. But other than some gel, or “window pane,” acid, this was some of the best I had.

Yeah, careful with window pane. They stick together and it’s hard to tell until it’s too late
I remember
Orange Sunshine blotter
Mr Natural blotter
Plain blotter
Orange barrel
Blue microdot
Purple microdot

[WhatTheBuck 28797]

2 minutes ago, TexPx said:

Yeah, careful with window pane. They stick together and it’s hard to tell until it’s too late
I remember
Orange Sunshine blotter
Mr Natural blotter
Plain blotter
Orange barrel
Blue microdot
Purple microdot

I heard the Bart Simpson blotter was supposed to be pretty good but I never came across any.

[Al_4_ISU 12482]

I've taken significant doses of psilocybin and LSD when I was younger.  I found shrooms a far more positive and productive experience than acid.  I always connected strongly with the people around me on shrooms and felt these greater connections to the world at large.  There would always be some moment of clarity in that process.  It was a shroom trip when I was 20 that convinced me that having strong relationships with other people was the most important thing in my life, and I've kinda lived my life by that maxim ever since.  I haven't done a full dose since 2006 or so, but have done slightly more than a micro dose with the same group of old friends on a few occasions in the last 3-4 years.  Those "not quite a trip but absolutely enhanced" experiences have been remarkably positive and left me with a great state of mind for a couple weeks afterwards.

LSD just turns me into an idiot that alternates between euphoric silliness and being terrified that you're going to stay trapped in that state permanently.  The last time I tripped on acid was in a down period of my life (fighting with my wife, drinking too much, etc) and it absolutely sucked.  To paraphrase Hunter Thompson, I could see myself behaving like the village idiot, but I was incapable of stopping it.  I have friends that really enjoy it, but it's never been good to me.

I don't think there's an objective right or wrong on this front, but I absolutely believe that psychedelics can be really positive in the right setting and when you find the psychedelic that works best for you.