Immigration Today

[nbmishoid 941]

In today’s NYT, two stories front page.   One is about 40,000 or so asylum seekers who are at or have passed thru into Canada, from the US.  And plenty of quotes that sound familiar to the “keep them in Mexico” constituency.  These are tiny numbers, but the fear juice ratchets up anyway.

Second story concerns Tunisia.  In response to a severe economic downturn the president made a speech blaming all troubles on the sub -Saharan immigrants, from northern Nigeria, Chad, Mali,  etc.   He said they were part of a project to turn the country “African”.  And the next day people are fired from their job, booted from their homes etc.

I have for a while supported Fukuyama’s formula that a democracy needed to have immigration policy reflecting societies’ desires, or it is not a democracy.  And so back to the US, we have a stable number of undocumented immigrants at about 10 mm, since the peak at 12 mm in 2008.   Same result thru Obama, Trump, and now Biden.  Less than 3%.  I mean, it is simply obvious that this is not anything like “too much”,  if we are talking morally and purely economically.

As a liberal the project ought to be reduce cruelty.  There us no way the current immigration limitations meet this requirement.  Why is my comfort, keeping at 100%, more important than the plight of these asylum seekers?  And what about the children, here?  They are fat and happy, if not suicidal, and being rendered cognitively injured by our attack on education.  Nah, more immigrants has got shit to so with “the children” (ours).   So it is just down to our comfort, and the level of fear and hatred in much of society.

So, yes, Francis, democratic leaders need to act democratically.  But how about morally, as well.  Another White Hat conundrum?  Does fear and hate get to wear a White Hat?

Ok, who here is morally for more asylum granting, and well regulated increased immigration.  (If well regulated, we ought to admit 400 million)

 

[fattyflattie 4636]

6 hours ago, nbmishoid said:

well regulated increased immigration

Everyone? 

[cactusflinthead 27594]

Since you're kinda new around here it's understandable if you thought that there wasn't a thread on the subject.

DACA, immigration reform whatever

Punch that into the search feature. I'm genuinely wondering if it gets you to the destination 

[SL Xpress 7505]

There is not a society on this planet, either now, or at any point in human history or pre history, that welcomed all comers into its midst. We do not have the capacity to do this as a species. There will always be those who use actions such as what you're referencing to decry it and seek power based upon it. And history shows they eventually succeed in acquiring it.

As a practical matter I'd shoot for incremental gains rather than wholesale changes that will simply result in a massive reaction that will have the opposite effect you're hoping to create. 

But who knows? Let's see someone get into power and enforce a massive increase in immigration, and see how it plays out. 

I'll also point out that Tunisia represents the most successful of all the Arab Spring states, and by most successful, I mean it's been a complete disaster. Kais Saied runs a democracy in name only. That said, at least they managed to field a functional democracy for a short period of time. They certainly did better than Syria, Egypt, or Libya, the other major western backed Arab Spring movements.

[Biff Tannen 45499]

18 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Since you're kinda new around here i

[Bullneck 18987]

OP is . . . . new here.  

I haz no idea about that wall of text.  But preach on, brother.  Also, my good friend Tito says "hi."

 

Josip Broz Tito?  Not that motherscratcher. I'm talm about Tito G. Austin, III.  

[cactusflinthead 27594]

 

[nbmishoid 941]

By “well regulated” I thought the joke to the second amendment and 400 million guns would be obvious enough.   Well, not so, and not funny.  Of course accepting 400 million immigrants was not serious.

SL, I fully agree there has not been a society that welcomed all comers.   To be more precise, our society could very well handle considerably more.  And, secondly, this inborn hate for the other has been tamped down, superficially, in only a few places for some time.  It is running rampant everywhere now.  It hardly makes the world a better place. It leads to much cruelty.  That all this is justified by sovereignty gives sovereignty a bad name.   

Given climate change, and expanded knowledge in poor societies that they may have options, will greatly increase migrant flow over the coming decades.  We have to learn to be better at facing this and dealing with it in a helpful way.  It’s a global issue but we have to clearly lead by example.  Our most recent example material seems to have shown others how to optimize the hate.  
 

Bullneck, Biff, I’m not new here, I’ve been on these boards since 1996 and Austin360.  Just back after some personal time.  A new handle was required, sadly.  Thanks for the reminder of the immigration thread. 
Cactus, thanks for that video.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20345]

 

 

 

[Sawbonz 27436]

^^^update said everyone walked off train w minor or no injuries 

 

It’s beyond ridiculous we don’t have an at will guest worker agreement w Mexico and Canada 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

On 3/3/2023 at 9:59 PM, cactusflinthead said:

 

hoooooly shit, haven't thought of those guys in a looong time. big blast from the past.

[atomheartbevo 89449]

52 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

It’s beyond ridiculous we don’t have an at will guest worker agreement w Mexico and Canada 

Oh, there were plans for a guest worker program - those libtards George W. Bush, John McCain, Rick Perry, and Teddy Kennedy were working on one circa 2006.

[gmr548 16517]

18 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

^^^update said everyone walked off train w minor or no injuries 

 

It’s beyond ridiculous we don’t have an at will guest worker agreement w Mexico and Canada 

I'm generally extremely skeptical of silver bullet type solutions but I do believe a simple guest worker program would solve a majority of problems associated with immigration.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

49 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

I'm generally extremely skeptical of silver bullet type solutions but I do believe a simple guest worker program would solve a majority of problems associated with immigration.

oh, you mean sensible legislation rather than reactionary bullshit? yeah, pretty sure that would be better

[hayden_horn 11360]

also might be worth recognizing that these folks are actually fleeing horrific conditions and are actually seeking asylum as refugees.

I've asked before and I'll ask again. what happens if we let them in? 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

also might be worth recognizing that these folks are actually fleeing horrific conditions and are actually seeking asylum as refugees.

I've asked before and I'll ask again. what happens if we let them in? 

it dilutes the white majority, duh.

[Bullneck 18987]

3 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

also might be worth recognizing that these folks are actually fleeing horrific conditions and are actually seeking asylum as refugees.

I've asked before and I'll ask again. what happens if we let them in? 

For them: a chance at a decent, peaceful life

For the US: Nothing other than some grateful immigrants in the labor force.

[HenryJames 65890]

 

[hobbes2702 12846]

On 5/6/2023 at 1:18 PM, hayden_horn said:

also might be worth recognizing that these folks are actually fleeing horrific conditions and are actually seeking asylum as refugees.

I've asked before and I'll ask again. what happens if we let them in? 

Fucking exactly. No one is capable of articulating why it’s a supposed problem 

[Bookman 4611]

6 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Fucking exactly. No one is capable of articulating why it’s a supposed problem 

When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

[Bullneck 18987]

10 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Fucking exactly. No one is capable of articulating why it’s a supposed problem 

or what's so different from now v. the last 300 years.

[Stilicho 1397]

Make-believe cowboys need make-believe indians.

You can do just about anything so long as you convince folks its only going to happen to someone else. Poor foreigners who are poor and foreign make for easy boogeymen.

[chainsaw 9838]

Massive crisis

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by chainsaw

[TwiceHorn 31283]

On 3/3/2023 at 1:51 PM, nbmishoid said:

As a liberal the project ought to be reduce cruelty.

This is simultaneously an accurate and incredible statement.

[chainsaw 9838]

I was promised insanity.

[HamsterHookah 112]

Sixty thousand people were waiting near the border to enter the US yesterday, though Border Patrol is already far beyond capacity with 25,000 migrants in custody, the BBC reported

[chainsaw 9838]

 

[High Plains Drifter 10978]

On 3/4/2023 at 1:23 PM, nbmishoid said:

By “well regulated” I thought the joke to the second amendment and 400 million guns would be obvious enough.   Well, not so, and not funny.  Of course accepting 400 million immigrants was not serious.

SL, I fully agree there has not been a society that welcomed all comers.   To be more precise, our society could very well handle considerably more.  And, secondly, this inborn hate for the other has been tamped down, superficially, in only a few places for some time.  It is running rampant everywhere now.  It hardly makes the world a better place. It leads to much cruelty.  That all this is justified by sovereignty gives sovereignty a bad name.   

Given climate change, and expanded knowledge in poor societies that they may have options, will greatly increase migrant flow over the coming decades.  We have to learn to be better at facing this and dealing with it in a helpful way.  It’s a global issue but we have to clearly lead by example.  Our most recent example material seems to have shown others how to optimize the hate.  
 

Bullneck, Biff, I’m not new here, I’ve been on these boards since 1996 and Austin360.  Just back after some personal time.  A new handle was required, sadly.  Thanks for the reminder of the immigration thread. 
Cactus, thanks for that video.

 

This is already happening.

Katrina refugees and the people displaced when Paradise California burned down are two obvious examples in the US. A few months back on NPR (iirc) they had a story about k-12 students from Paradise who were still having classes at a civic center in a nearby town.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[High Plains Drifter 10978]

On 5/6/2023 at 1:18 PM, hayden_horn said:

also might be worth recognizing that these folks are actually fleeing horrific conditions and are actually seeking asylum as refugees.

I've asked before and I'll ask again. what happens if we let them in? 

 

I can finally find some body who will paint my house?

 

 

[SimonBolivar 10932]

On 5/7/2023 at 2:32 PM, hobbes2702 said:

Fucking exactly. No one is capable of articulating why it’s a supposed problem 

Do you know how popular Peso Pluma is going to become here? He's taking regional Mexican to a whole new level in Latin America and there will be serious ramifications on the prices of brass instruments nationwide. 

[hayden_horn 11360]

so how many people are clamoring for entry today? 

cnn just said approximately 150k people in northern Mexico are waiting to enter. let's be dumb and multiply that by 10. Let's say about a million or million and a half are waiting to enter. 

our population is around what 330 million? 

i will ask again: so, what if we just say welcome and let them in? we could disperse them throughout the country. no one would even notice. 

 

[chainsaw 9838]

twitter journos saying there was a drop in traffic. she seems like she's actually on the ground there.

 

[SimonBolivar 10932]

25 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

so how many people are clamoring for entry today? 

cnn just said approximately 150k people in northern Mexico are waiting to enter. let's be dumb and multiply that by 10. Let's say about a million or million and a half are waiting to enter. 

our population is around what 330 million? 

i will ask again: so, what if we just say welcome and let them in? we could disperse them throughout the country. no one would even notice. 

 

All of El Salvador could move up here and nobody would notice, other than there suddenly being more fat tortillas.

Edited May 12, 2023 by SimonBolivar

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

On 5/7/2023 at 3:39 PM, Bookman said:

When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

Don’t you just hate all those Mexican countries?

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20345]

You all who are mocking this need to get a clue.  I saw a guy here in Texas today who looked like a Mexican, was speaking Spanish, and could have been illegal ---- and I live a few hundred miles from the border.

 

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

so how many people are clamoring for entry today? 

cnn just said approximately 150k people in northern Mexico are waiting to enter. let's be dumb and multiply that by 10. Let's say about a million or million and a half are waiting to enter. 

our population is around what 330 million? 

i will ask again: so, what if we just say welcome and let them in? we could disperse them throughout the country. no one would even notice. 

 

You are spot-on; if you could evenly distribute and thin it out, nary a soul would notice or care. The reality, not saying it's problematic, is that populations concentrate in small areas, stressing resources. It's understandable though, as there is safety and comfort in community.

[hobbes2702 12846]

5 hours ago, HamsterHookah said:

Sixty thousand people were waiting near the border to enter the US yesterday, though Border Patrol is already far beyond capacity with 25,000 migrants in custody, the BBC reported

What’s the problem exactly?

[Incredulity 11555]

1 hour ago, SimonBolivar said:

being more fat tortillas.

puffy tacos?

 

In all seriousness there is a limit on how many immigrants the US can accommodate in any one time period.  In a non-clown world we would have a robust allocation for immigration with sound reasonable rules around paths to citizenship.  I'd trade 99% of the people in the CR for the overwhelming majority of the immigrants(legal and otherwise) I have had personal interactions with.

Further, the way it is handled now facilitates all sorts of exploitation evils.  But... cheap labor, political footballs, unclaimable entitlement funding wins out.

[SimonBolivar 10932]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

puffy tacos?

Nah, my mother in law was banging an undocumented Salvadoran and his tortillas looked like this...

 

 

Mexican grandmother in law was not impressed.

 

 

[Incredulity 11555]

2 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Nah, my mother in law was banging an undocumented Salvadoran and his tortillas looked like this...

 

 

Mexican grandmother in law was not impressed.

 

 

Would eat.

[Don Johnson 4745]

6 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Nah, my mother in law was banging an undocumented Salvadoran and his tortillas looked like this...

 

 

Mexican grandmother in law was not impressed.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Don Johnson

[Satchel 6908]

I know our immigration system is broken, however, I’m a little disappointed the much anticipated border invasion failed to materialize today. I fully expected to see bands of marauding 10 year old Guatemalans running up and down my street.

[DaysOff 7853]

puffy tacos?
 
In all seriousness there is a limit on how many immigrants the US can accommodate in any one time period.  In a non-clown world we would have a robust allocation for immigration with sound reasonable rules around paths to citizenship.  I'd trade 99% of the people in the CR for the overwhelming majority of the immigrants(legal and otherwise) I have had personal interactions with.
Further, the way it is handled now facilitates all sorts of exploitation evils.  But... cheap labor, political footballs, unclaimable entitlement funding wins out.

We'd trade you for two Whataburger coupons.

[Incredulity 11555]

3 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

We'd trade you for two Whataburger coupons.

[safe sex 11684]

12 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

We'd trade you for two Whataburger coupons.

Two is generous

[chainsaw 9838]

1 hour ago, Satchel said:

I know our immigration system is broken, however, I’m a little disappointed the much anticipated border invasion failed to materialize today. I fully expected to see bands of marauding 10 year old Guatemalans running up and down my street.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20345]

 

 

[chainsaw 9838]

this whole "surge" bullshit is a scam for cops to rack up overtime for playing Clash of Clans in their squad cars

[TwiceHorn 31283]

Well, truth be told, Trump's horrific immigration policies apparently did a pretty good job of deterring people from coming to the border.

And, if you have fewer people queued up at the border, you're going to have fewer people "jumping the fence" or "swimming the river" and fewer asylum applicants, regardless of the harshness or lenience of the actual policies on the other side.

Anyone not Trump would have encouraged more appearances at and movement toward our borders, and the number of asylum seekers.

Kind of amazing how that boca a boca evaluation of US immigration policy works.

So, as far as providing an in terrorem deterrent to immigrants, Biden's policy has been a "failure."  When you consider that US immigration policy ought not be an in terrorem threat accompanied by inflicting cruelty on them once they arrive, well, it's okey dokey.

[Beau Vine 54003]

Florida just passed a law requiring employers to use e-Verify.