London-Paris First Timer

[Chopper 17230]

LOL I can't believe I feel the need to defend the British Museum but c'mon ... "a bunch of random artifacts" - there are 8 million artifacts in the museum. Not all have a direct nexis to England but it's organized so you can easily avoid the areas that don't. The museum was created and opened under very different times, like many  institutions you likely take for granted and for which you're more forgiving--the soil beneath your feet being one of them. From wikipedia -

Quote

The British Museum is a public museum dedicated to human history, art and culture located in the Bloomsbury area of London. Its permanent collection of eight million works is among the largest and most comprehensive in existence.^[3] It documents the story of human culture from its beginnings to the present.^[a] The British Museum was the first public national museum to cover all fields of knowledge.^[4]

The museum was established in 1753, largely based on the collections of the Anglo-Irish physician and scientist Sir Hans Sloane.^[5] It first opened to the public in 1759, in Montagu House, on the site of the current building. The museum's expansion over the following 250 years was largely a result of British colonisation and resulted in the creation of several branch institutions, or independent spin-offs, the first being the Natural History Museum in 1881. The right to ownership of some of its most well-known acquisitions, notably the Greek Elgin Marbles and the Egyptian Rosetta Stone, is subject to long-term disputes and repatriation claims.^[6][7]

 

[The Ace of Aces 5182]

The British Museum is amazing but you need a guide. The London Walks tour is really worthwhile there. 

[Ghost of LL 15531]

1 hour ago, The Ace of Aces said:

The British Museum is amazing but you need a guide. The London Walks tour is really worthwhile there. 

I would agree with this.  

The British Museum is the single most significant repository of human artefacts in the world.  I don't understand the critique that they are "random."  Human history is random, I suppose.  If you don't want to look at exhibits that are outside the British Isles--either because of moral objection or because of disinterest--that's fine.  The exhibits that pertain only to British history are exceptional.  I think the Sutton Hoo trove is alone worth the price of admission.

But I think you're depriving yourself if you don't look at the other stuff.  The Rosetta Stone is a remarkable piece.  It's the only way we know a lot of what we know about Ancient Egypt.  The Assyrian relief of the Siege of Lachish is itself incredible.  And for those who want to wrong their hands about it being in London, perhaps they can console themselves with the knowledge that if it were left in Ninveh, it would have been destroyed by ISIS with the rest of the archeological site of that ancient city.

But yeah--the collection is overwhelming, even if you were a history major.  So a guide is a good idea.  And planning out exactly what is of interest to you is critical.

[sasquatch69 603]

We just got back from a week in London (mom, dad, two teenagers).  Lots of good advice in this thread.  A few other notes about London specifically:

- This has been alluded to, but London is expensive af right now, even with the strong(ish) dollar.  As an example, a run of the mill sit-down restaurant family meal (including a beer or mixed drink for each parent) that would be $75-80 in the states often ran $125-130 in London.  

- Can't remember when you're wanting to travel, but order a visitor Oystercard for London transport ASAP.  These are great - they each come preloaded with 50 pounds of credit towards London tube and buses, at the least expensive rate, and you can top them off at any London Transport kiosk (in all Tube stations) as needed.  We used the tube to get everywhere - it's very convenient and you never have to wait long for a train.  Buses are handy in specific cases where you need to get somewhere that is inbetween tube stops.  They get mailed to your house before your trip, so make sure you have enough time: https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/visiting-london/visitor-oyster-card

- Echo the strong rec for Yeoman Warder tour at Tower of London.  I also recommend the Churchill War Rooms if you're a history or WWII buff, as you literally walk through the underground bunker where the British gov't kept running during the Blitz.  We visited the Victoria & Albert museum as well, which was fantastic - it's not just art - it's furniture, textiles, historical exhibits - you name it.

- See a show if you can.  There is a half-price tickets booth in Leicester Square where you can often get same-day tickets the morning of to various shows in the West End.  We saw Back to the Future and Harry Potter and the Cursed Child (wife's pick) and both were great (we ordered both in advance).

-  If anyone in your family is a Beatles/UK music fan, the Abbey Road Studios store is worth a visit - it's an easy walk from the St Johns Wood tube stop.  It's cool enough to see even the exterior of such a famous studio (and the famous crosswalk outside) but the shop has all kinds of music-related shirts, vinyl, etc.

- We also did the GoCity Explorer Pass for attractions to save some $.  The London Pass is an unlimited pass to a bunch of stuff - you pay by the day.  But unless you're hitting up a ton of the attractions on their list, it's not worth the price.  The GoCity Explorer Pass is different in that you pay for a specific number of attractions and then it's like a punch card - you just use them up.  It got us discounted tickets to Tower of London, a hop-on-hop-off bus tour, Shakespeare's Globe and some other stuff. https://gocity.com/london/en-us/products/explorer

 

 

[sasquatch69 603]

One other note: Stonehenge is worth seeing, but it's a good 1.5hr bus ride from London (about the same for train + shuttle).  They built a new visitor center which is much nicer than the old one, but it's nearly two miles from the actual Stonehenge.  You either walk the two miles via footpath (which my older son and I did), or you wait in a queue for a shuttle bus to take you to the stones (my wife and younger son chose this option).  

We did Stonehenge as part of a Viator day tour to Windsor Castle, Stonehenge and Oxford.  We wished we had more time in each spot, but it was a good option since we only had a week there.  My caution: Our tour got us to Windsor before opening time so we got a spot at the front of the queue to get in.  By the time we left 2h later, the line was several hundred people long, and I doubt those folks on tours got much time at all to spend in the castle.   And in the summer it'll be worse - we were there in early March before the full tourist wave really hit.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

5 minutes ago, sasquatch69 said:

One other note: Stonehenge is worth seeing, but it's a good 1.5hr bus ride from London (about the same for train + shuttle).  They built a new visitor center which is much nicer than the old one, but it's nearly two miles from the actual Stonehenge.  You either walk the two miles via footpath (which my older son and I did), or you wait in a queue for a shuttle bus to take you to the stones (my wife and younger son chose this option).  

We did Stonehenge as part of a Viator day tour to Windsor Castle, Stonehenge and Oxford.  We wished we had more time in each spot, but it was a good option since we only had a week there.  My caution: Our tour got us to Windsor before opening time so we got a spot at the front of the queue to get in.  By the time we left 2h later, the line was several hundred people long, and I doubt those folks on tours got much time at all to spend in the castle.   And in the summer it'll be worse - we were there in early March before the full tourist wave really hit.

Stonehenge is going to be pretty controversial.  I also think it's pretty cool.  But at the same time, it's a bunch of old stones.  It really doesn't take that long to see.  And it's a big time investment to get out there for (at most) a half-hour standing around and pondering giant stones.

If you're going to do Stonehenge, I would recommend pairing that with a trip to Salisbury Cathedral.  It's one of the great gothic cathedrals of England, and it's also where they keep one of the four surviving copies of Magna Carta.

It's also where I had the weirdest experience of my travel life.  

I am sure I've shared this story before on this site, but it was really weird.  This happened back in 2018.  My parents decided they were going to treat the family with a trip to London and Paris.  Great.  So one of those days we rented a big 9-passenger van from the rent-a-car spot at Waterloo Station and off we trucked west.  We say Stonehenge and then went over to Salisbury Cathedral.

So as we approach the cathedral, I pull in to a car park next to the cathedral school.  There's an attendant there who is taking a few quid to park.  Ok--"where do you want me," I asked him.  He replied (in his very muddled rural English accent) "Oh, just over there; you know--you've been here before."  Weird comment.  Perhaps he thought I was a tour guide based on the size of the van I was driving.  But it was very weird given that I was wearing a Beto for Senate shirt.

Anyhoo--you go in first to the Charter House, which is the building next to the Cathedral where they would hold meetings.  It's where Magna Carta is now kept.  There are a number of volunteers in there to answer questions and such.  I walk in, and one of them says "good to see you again."  Weird. 

So we're there looking at Magna Carta, and my wife is talking with one of the volunteers about its preservation, when my daughter trots up.  And the volunteer says "Oh, hello again--chose to come back from the Cathedral did you?"  My wife and daughter look at one another very confused, and I look at them both very confused.  Mrs.LL kind of scolds my daughter, "did you wander off into the Cathedral?"  No--and I know she didn't because she was staying pretty close to me.  And it's kind of weird because my daughter was wearing a pink hoodie that we had bought her the previous year when we were in Spain that just said "Madrid" across it in big letters.  It's kind of distinctive.

So we go check out the cathedral.  Again, someone entirely different says to me "good to see you again."  And there are maybe a dozen people in the Cathedral.  It's not crowded.  In fact, it's kind of deserted.

We left the Cathedral and headed back to the car.  The attendant is gone.  The little shack he was manning was gone.  But I do have a note saying that I was parked without authorization in the school's car park.

We drove back to London pretty quietly.  I think it wasn't until we were inside the M25 loop when I was finally like "ok--that was pretty fucking weird, right?"  And everyone agreed that something really weird was going on there.

[CooterBrown 18006]

1 hour ago, sasquatch69 said:

- Can't remember when you're wanting to travel, but order a visitor Oystercard for London transport ASAP.  These are great - they each come preloaded with 50 pounds of credit towards London tube and buses, at the least expensive rate, and you can top them off at any London Transport kiosk (in all Tube stations) as needed. 

You can just use Apple Pay on your Apple Watch or iPhone. In Wallet, set one of you cards as your transit card and you don't even need to activate a card on your device prior to tapping in/out.  It's way easier than dealing with an Oyster card.  Just make sure you always use either your watch or your phone so that you get proper credit throughout the day towards the maximum fare.  They each have a different Apply Pay chip code so the transit system won't recognize them as being from the same credit card.

Edited March 27, 2023 by CooterBrown

[Ghost of LL 15531]

24 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

You can just use Apple Pay on your Apple Watch or iPhone. In Wallet, set one of you cards as your transit card and you don't even need to activate a card on your device prior to tapping in/out.  It's way easier than dealing with an Oyster card.  Just make sure you always use either your watch or your phone so that you get proper credit throughout the day towards the maximum fare.  They each have a different Apply Pay chip code so the transit system won't recognize them as being from the same credit card.

You can also get an Oyster card through TfL's app and have it in your Apple wallet.  I think that addresses that concern, and it's super-easy.

[sasquatch69 603]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

You can also get an Oyster card through TfL's app and have it in your Apple wallet.  I think that addresses that concern, and it's super-easy.

I get all that, but I specifically went with the physical Oystercard so my kids wouldn't have their phones out (we worked hard to keep phones put away - except for photos - and be present in the moment).  Anything we could do to not have them have to get their phones out was a plus as they paid a lot more attention to their surroundings.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

40 minutes ago, sasquatch69 said:

I get all that, but I specifically went with the physical Oystercard so my kids wouldn't have their phones out (we worked hard to keep phones put away - except for photos - and be present in the moment).  Anything we could do to not have them have to get their phones out was a plus as they paid a lot more attention to their surroundings.

Kids ride free on the Underground if they're 10 or younger.  You just go to the wide ticket gate (the one you use if you have luggage), and the attendant will let you through.

If you have older kids, make sure you get the Young Visitor Oyster Card, which gives you a 50% discount on their travel.

[txduck87 985]

You can just use Apple Pay on your Apple Watch or iPhone. In Wallet, set one of you cards as your transit card and you don't even need to activate a card on your device prior to tapping in/out.  It's way easier than dealing with an Oyster card.  Just make sure you always use either your watch or your phone so that you get proper credit throughout the day towards the maximum fare.  They each have a different Apply Pay chip code so the transit system won't recognize them as being from the same credit card.

So do I need separate Apple Pay accounts for each of my family? Traveling with wife and two teenagers , or can I tap 4 times on my creator card every time we ride ? #oldguy

[CooterBrown 18006]

So do I need separate Apple Pay accounts for each of my family? Traveling with wife and two teenagers , or can I tap 4 times on my creator card every time we ride ? #oldguy

Nope. I have one credit card with my wife and kid on the same card. It worked perfect. We all had it on our Apple Watch and tapped in and out using it on the tube and busses.

My understanding is that when you tap from the card/phone/watch each has a different chip encryption number. That is what the Point of Sale sees, not the credit card number. It’s why your card info can’t be stolen when you tap since the CC number is never exposed.

If you old school swipe the card instead then that wouldn’t work because the POS sees the credit card number and then it would conflict with multiple cards having the same number.

[CooterBrown 18006]

To clarify, each person needs their own Apple ID. The credit card can be the same but the card should be in each person’s name. I’m not sure if sharing an Apple ID or if loading a single credit card in one person’s name onto multiple devices would give each user a different encryption number.

[rage-a-holic 4382]

I fucking love the British Museum. My girlfriend has never been to London and it's the first place I'm taking her when we visit in May.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

22 hours ago, sasquatch69 said:

We just got back from a week in London (mom, dad, two teenagers).  Lots of good advice in this thread.  A few other notes about London specifically:

- This has been alluded to, but London is expensive af right now, even with the strong(ish) dollar.  As an example, a run of the mill sit-down restaurant family meal (including a beer or mixed drink for each parent) that would be $75-80 in the states often ran $125-130 in London.  

 

I am not sure where you live, but, a run of the mill sit-down restaurant in most major US cities is going to cost you about the same.  

[gyroprotagonist 2592]

we did the same trip over thanksgiving last year.  4 days in each city with teens.  i posted a little trip report here in the London thread:  

 

 

 

 

no idea what it cost 'cause the wife planned it all, but the airfare (biz class) and hotels were pretty damn expensive (but incredibly nice and convenient).

[CooterBrown 18006]

I fucking love the British Museum. My girlfriend has never been to London and it's the first place I'm taking her when we visit in May.

I’d take her to pound town first but the British Museum is next on the list.

[locodos 5387]

Just now, CooterBrown said:

I’d take her to pound town first but the British Museum is next on the list.

English Dollar Store?

[locodos 5387]

On 3/27/2023 at 9:12 PM, CooterBrown said:

To clarify, each person needs their own Apple ID. The credit card can be the same but the card should be in each person’s name. I’m not sure if sharing an Apple ID or if loading a single credit card in one person’s name onto multiple devices would give each user a different encryption number.

Not when I went last year. ymmv

[locodos 5387]

On 3/27/2023 at 9:08 AM, Chopper said:

LOL I can't believe I feel the need to defend the British Museum but c'mon ... "a bunch of random artifacts" - there are 8 million artifacts in the museum. Not all have a direct nexis to England but it's organized so you can easily avoid the areas that don't. The museum was created and opened under very different times, like many  institutions you likely take for granted and for which you're more forgiving--the soil beneath your feet being one of them. From wikipedia -

 

lulz.  Not all = barely any

Absolutely go if you haven't been.  

YOINK!

[Chopper 17230]

I'll confess that I'm highly unlikely to make it out to Easter Island to see the statues in person so having one in the UK seems pretty convenient. Also the site of the originals is at extreme risk due to fires and global warming so perhaps it's a good thing that 1 of the thousand originals is ensconced at the British Museum.

It's also unlikely I'll ever be able to see historical treasures or art in many other parts of the world, including Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan (whatever remains that wasn't destroyed by the taliban), Russia and its satellites, and most of Africa. And I don't even think I'll ever be back in China or HK at this rate. By that measure what I can see at the Brit or perhaps a few other museums is about the only opportunity.

England was a province of the Roman empire, and before that (BC) its trading partner, and in ancient times there was an actual land bridge between it and the Continent. What is now Greece belonged to the Romans at one point, at the very same time the Romans also inhabited England. English history is European history and the reverse is also true.

If you're in northern England, perhaps near Carlisle or Newcastle, it's easy to see the the northern frontier of what was the Roman empire, demarcated by Hadrian's Wall. It was an 80 mile long wall meant to protect the Roman empire, and today the footings are almost entirely intact, a surprising amount of other structures remain, and in fact the entire structure is a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

I mentioned the Sutton Hoo rooms at the British Museum above and perhaps nobody gives a fuck, and that's fair, but it's one of the world's greatest ever archeological finds (in Suffolk, discovered just before WWII) and it provided much illumination about the Anglo Saxons and the so-called Dark Ages. It's the 1400 year old burial chamber of a king, and his 80 foot long ship, which was buried along with him and many assorted, priceless treasures.

The discovery and the dig are the subject matter of the film The Dig on Netflix.

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Chopper

[RamjetFDO 10575]

English Dollar Store?

Close enough, actually.

[locodos 5387]

On 3/31/2023 at 6:14 PM, Chopper said:

I'll confess that I'm highly unlikely to make it out to Easter Island to see the statues in person so having one in the UK seems pretty convenient. Also the site of the originals is at extreme risk due to fires and global warming so perhaps it's a good thing that 1 of the thousand originals is ensconced at the British Museum.

It's also unlikely I'll ever be able to see historical treasures or art in many other parts of the world, including Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan (whatever remains that wasn't destroyed by the taliban), Russia and its satellites, and most of Africa. And I don't even think I'll ever be back in China or HK at this rate. By that measure what I can see at the Brit or perhaps a few other museums is about the only opportunity.

England was a province of the Roman empire, and before that (BC) its trading partner, and in ancient times there was an actual land bridge between it and the Continent. What is now Greece belonged to the Romans at one point, at the very same time the Romans also inhabited England. English history is European history and the reverse is also true.

If you're in northern England, perhaps near Carlisle or Newcastle, it's easy to see the the northern frontier of what was the Roman empire, demarcated by Hadrian's Wall. It was an 80 mile long wall meant to protect the Roman empire, and today the footings are almost entirely intact, a surprising amount of other structures remain, and in fact the entire structure is a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

I mentioned the Sutton Hoo rooms at the British Museum above and perhaps nobody gives a fuck, and that's fair, but it's one of the world's greatest ever archeological finds (in Suffolk, discovered just before WWII) and it provided much illumination about the Anglo Saxons and the so-called Dark Ages. It's the 1400 year old burial chamber of a king, and his 80 foot long ship, which was buried along with him and many assorted, priceless treasures.

The discovery and the dig are the subject matter of the film The Dig on Netflix.

 

Imagine how convenient it would be for the "British" Crown Jewels to be displayed in NY, DC, Tokyo, or GASP New Delhi...  so many more people would get to enjoy them!

Is that a round about argument for having ~1/2 the Parthenon statues?  If so Bra-fucking-vo!  I mean that's quite the leap

A question I think about occasionally, after 1066 is anything really English?  What's left?  I mean the French/Norman knights fucking wrecked shop and completely transformed the Island in terms of genetic history, aristocracy, and culture.   You know those "English" castles?  Built by Normans (in the French tradition) to subjugate/dominate what was left of the English.  The Doomsday book details how the country was gutted in a way it would not recover from for hundreds of years.  Is England a former French Colony?  (Also this is a good way to troll blokes at the pub)

[Michael Knight 12977]

I'd recommend not going to Paris when they are on strike. Also echo Versailles being meh and I liked the British museum. Arc de triumph was a bear to climb and while the top was nice it probably wasn't worth it. Friend of mine did his vacation thru tripmaster and said it was worth it to avoid the hassle, said they even rescheduled his train tickets when it got cancelled. Don't do tour guides, pick something you wanna see each day and walk towards it, in Paris and London you'll discover plenty of shit along the way

[Ghost of LL 15531]

23 minutes ago, locodos said:

Imagine how convenient it would be for the "British" Crown Jewels to be displayed in NY, DC, Tokyo, or GASP New Delhi...  so many more people would get to enjoy them!

Is that a round about argument for having ~1/2 the Parthenon statues?  If so Bra-fucking-vo!  I mean that's quite the leap

A question I think about occasionally, after 1066 is anything really English?  What's left?  I mean the French/Norman knights fucking wrecked shop and completely transformed the Island in terms of genetic history, aristocracy, and culture.   You know those "English" castles?  Built by Normans (in the French tradition) to subjugate/dominate what was left of the English.  The Doomsday book details how the country was gutted in a way it would not recover from for hundreds of years.  Is England a former French Colony?  (Also this is a good way to troll blokes at the pub)

Go back a thousand years before that.  What is "English" is defined largely by the boundaries of Roman Britannia.  Scotland was beyond Hadrian's Wall.  The Romans canceled their plans to invade Hibernia.  And Roman control over (particularly northern) Wales was always tenuous.  

And inside Roman Britannia, there was a transformation in terms of genetic history, aristocracy, and culture.  The Romans sent in soldiers from across the Empire.  And after they had served their 25 years in the legions, those soldiers often settled in Britain with their often-native wives.  So the people who populated the major cities like Londinium or Eboracum or Mamucium were half-Briton and half-Dacian or half-Latin or half-Italian or half-Spaniard.  They adopted Roman culture--as Tacitus remarked, "All this in their ignorance they called civilization, when it was but a part of their servitude."

And after the Romans, there was the Anglo-Saxon invasion.  And after that, there were the Danish invasions.  Those peoples didn't eradicate the island's inhabitants; they needed them for labor.  They intermarried with them.  So by 1000 AD, your average Englishman was a mix of some bits Briton, some bits Germanic, perhaps some Danish, and some bits from elsewhere in the old Roman Empire.

And even before the Romans, you can go back and find evidence of Neolithic "invasions" of Britain from the continent.  Over the centuries, that island has seen wave after wave of "invasion" and resettlement.

The remarkable thing about it, however, is the continuity.  The Roman roads often followed roads that had existed from the Neolithic Age.  Watling Street was a thoroughfare hundreds or thousands of years before Caesar stepped foot in Kent.  And even today the lines of farms still track a lot of the lines laid out by Neolithic farmers and adopted by the Romans, the Anglo-Saxons, and then the Normans.  Counties and districts are often centered on Iron Age hill forts.  And many aspects of English culture would be familiar to a pre-Roman Briton (eels, anyone?).  There was genetic and cultural mixing, but the preexisting people and culture was never wiped out.  And perhaps that's the most remarkable thing about the people we now regard as "English"--despite all of the "invasions" by various peoples, the amount of genetic and cultural continuity is really quite remarkable.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

By the way--you can still walk along Watling Street in the middle of London.  From the Mansion House Tube stop, go north on Bow Lane a block, and there is Watling Street.  Look west, and you'll get a great view of St. Peter's dome framed by a narrow street lined with pubs and restaurants.

Go around 5:30 on a weekday, and you'll be surrounded by bankers and lawyers from the City who are stopping in at their preferred pubs for a pint.  Grab your own pint, and hang out outside--it's expected that you may drink your pint out on the sidewalk right outside the pub.  And while you're enjoying your pint and the view of St. Peter's dome, you can ponder the thousands of years of history that have walked over that very street.  From Iron Age farmers going to sell their produce at Westminster to the Roman legions who marched into Londinium along the street to the pilgrims in Canterbury Tales--they all walked right where those bankers and lawyers are walking today.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Ghost of LL

[TornACL 7698]

Nothing much more to add that hasn't already been said, but in both places I would highly, highly recommend keeping half a day each day free for exploring. Unless you're the type who needs every minute of your day planned and to do otherwise makes you anxious.

Best times I have had in both cities have been stuff like wandering the Latin Quarter for eat and drink, or grabbing some bread and cheese and sitting outside in one of the gardens people watching. Or finding some random pub in London and meeting some locals. Unless you're a complete jackass those same locals may also give you some great recs on other things to do in the area.

I am a big fan of a Sunday Roast at a good London pub.

I also enjoy using the metro or tube in both places to get around quickly and cheaply.

 

[locodos 5387]

14 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

The remarkable thing about it, however, is the continuity.  The Roman roads often followed roads that had existed from the Neolithic Age.  Watling Street was a thoroughfare hundreds or thousands of years before Caesar stepped foot in Kent.  And even today the lines of farms still track a lot of the lines laid out by Neolithic farmers and adopted by the Romans, the Anglo-Saxons, and then the Normans.  Counties and districts are often centered on Iron Age hill forts.  And many aspects of English culture would be familiar to a pre-Roman Briton (eels, anyone?).  There was genetic and cultural mixing, but the preexisting people and culture was never wiped out.  And perhaps that's the most remarkable thing about the people we now regard as "English"--despite all of the "invasions" by various peoples, the amount of genetic and cultural continuity is really quite remarkable.

 

[jimmyjazz 45903]

On 3/25/2023 at 10:19 AM, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Montmartre is a great place to walk around and get a real feel for a Paris village. 

Seconded.  At the very least, visit at sunset, and watch the city light up at your feet.  

[gernblansten 3196]

This thread is a wealth of information. Pretty well covers what to see in London and see in France, just misses seeing underpants.

[Chopper 17230]

20 hours ago, locodos said:

Imagine how convenient it would be for the "British" Crown Jewels to be displayed in NY, DC, Tokyo, or GASP New Delhi...  so many more people would get to enjoy them!

Is that a round about argument for having ~1/2 the Parthenon statues?  If so Bra-fucking-vo!  I mean that's quite the leap.

Did I mention the Parthenon or are you making up some bullshit straw man argument because that's the fight you want to have and because your reading comprehension doesn't measure up? The marbles were apparently moved from in about 1800 by a British diplomat. Are there any other great wrongs from the 1800s involving improper, abhorrent ownership or theft that you also support correcting, or is your outrage limited to objets d'art on foreign soil?

My argument, as you laughably put it, is not "round about" in more ways than one.  https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/roundabout I was merely trying to provide context for some of the criticisms that others were voicing about the British Museum. I'm not sure why that's so unfortunately difficult for you to grasp.

Since you bring them up, the British Crown Jewels are (still) owned by the monarchy, so you'll have to take up their display with Charles. However, personally, I'd be happy if the entire lot of 'em (the royals, not their jewels) were stripped of official sanction, wealth and privilege.  But that's probably for another forum.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Chopper

[rage-a-holic 4382]

On 3/31/2023 at 1:30 PM, CooterBrown said:

I’d take her to pound town first but the British Museum is next on the list.

She's getting a sausage surprise behind one of the Babylonian statues. 

[yoladu 4094]

On 3/13/2023 at 1:19 PM, po elvis said:

If you go the apartment route, I would also check out Booking.com. When we got to Europe, it ended up being our go to site over Airbnb to find apartments for a few days. But we were winging it, usually booking a place for that afternoon or the next day. They seemed to have great very last minute deals.

i will say, getting an AirBNB with a washer and dryer can reducing your clothes packing by half, if not even more than half.

[yoladu 4094]

On 3/27/2023 at 2:36 PM, Ghost of LL said:

You can also get an Oyster card through TfL's app and have it in your Apple wallet.  I think that addresses that concern, and it's super-easy.

all: can you just use/tap your credit card or debit card and not purchase an Oyster card? I believe they keep track and cap your bank cards as well.

Oyster cards cost 7 quid, yeah?

[locodos 5387]

3 minutes ago, yoladu said:

all: can you just use/tap your credit card or debit card and not purchase an Oyster card? I believe they keep track and cap your bank cards as well.

Oyster cards cost 7 quid, yeah?

Yup, apple pay on phone is even easier

[Ghost of LL 15531]

3 minutes ago, yoladu said:

all: can you just use/tap your credit card or debit card and not purchase an Oyster card? I believe they keep track and cap your bank cards as well.

Oyster cards cost 7 quid, yeah?

Last time I was there, the readers were not set up for that.  But it's been a few years, so things may have changed.

[locodos 5387]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Last time I was there, the readers were not set up for that.  But it's been a few years, so things may have changed.

Was in London last Sept.  Used the phone to tap in and out on tube without a problem.   Set up apple pay express mode...

https://www.apple.com/uk/apple-pay/transport/

 

Credit card will work too, but the phone is easier/faster.  You don't even have to unlock the phone IIRC

Edited June 12, 2023 by locodos

[Sandman 3403]

24 minutes ago, locodos said:

Was in London last Sept.  Used the phone to tap in and out on tube without a problem.

I was there in Nov/Dec and it was the same. Breezed through with Apply Pay, it was awesome. 

[lemonlime 5503]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

Last time I was there, the readers were not set up for that.  But it's been a few years, so things may have changed.

I was there a few weeks ago.  Just tapped my credit card in and out of the tube with no issues.

[CooterBrown 18006]

all: can you just use/tap your credit card or debit card and not purchase an Oyster card? I believe they keep track and cap your bank cards as well.
Oyster cards cost 7 quid, yeah?

Yes you can. If you have a smart watch, you can just use it or use your Apple wallet on your phone instead of pulling your card out. Make sure you go into your settings and set your preferred card as a transit card (that’s what Apple calls it). If it’s set as a transit card, you don’t have to open the card first when you scan in and out. You can just tap your phone or watch and go. Make sure you use the same payment method all the time so it keeps track towards the daily maximum charge. Your card, watch, and phone all have different security codes for the same credit card and the point of sale has no way of knowing it’s the same credit card.

[Asithappens 974]

Just returned from a week in London. What a world-class city! 

We stayed in an aparthotel in the Whitechapel area: The Gate Hotel. 

It's a great location for catching the subway (Tube) and within walking distance of Brick Lane (London's curry district) and Tower Bridge if you're so inclined. Get a little Tube map and hit the Aldgate East station and the city is basically your oyster. And speaking of oyster, you don't need to get an Oyster card. Just use your credit/debit card and tap in and tap out. As easy as falling off a log. 

Some people are the museum types, but I don't know how anyone can go to London and not see the Rosetta Stone and the Elgin Marbles (Parthenon statues now) in the British Museum. Free entry, spend an hour or so and Bob's your uncle. The National Portrait Gallery and National Gallery are also pretty good. We had the great fortune of having a friend who's a local and he helped guide us around. 

Here's my take on some of the places, of course, ymmv:

British Museum: worth it.

Notting Hill: NOT worth it.

Trafalgar Square and environs (around the Embankment Tube station): totally worth it.

Brick Lane (street near our hotel) and the weekend market (mostly food stalls): worth it at least once.

Borough Market: mind-blowing but you can't eat at every food stall and you probably don't need to do your weekly grocery shopping there, but worth it.

Jack the Ripper tour, Westminster tour (both with guides) TOTALLY worth it.

Bus tour to  Windsor Castle, Stonehenge, and Bath: eh, it's ok, but the downside is you get to Bath and have an 75 minutes to see things. It's a trade-off imo, quantity over quality. I liked Windsor Castle, Stonehenge was meh, and Bath was a notch or two above meh. 

Westminster Abbey: good, but not great imo. It was kinda dark that day and there's room after room (or alcove after alcove) of what I guess were famous people I've never heard of with a bunch of stuff written in Latin about them. That stuff gets old fast, imo. Also, the audio guide was not good. But I did like the Scientists "corner" (Isaac Newton, Stephen Hawking, Paul Dirac, dudes like that, and the Poets' Corner. But even so, it's essentially a bunch of names on the floor. Worth seeing but don't put it on the top of your list, imo. 

Hampton Court Palace: Henry VIII's place. We had a tour guide and it was fantastic. TOTALLY worth it. Better than Windsor Castle and Westminster Abbey. Plus, there's a nice little pub nearby, The Mute Swan, that has good beer and good food. Speaking of pubs, we went to the Blind Beggar (favorite haunt of the Kray brothers - look them up if you haven't heard of them, catch a movie about them, NOT the Tom Hardy one but the 1990 movie "The Krays") on Friday night and it was basically a so-so college bar with a bunch of drunk 20-year olds. NOT how an American would envision an English pub. Same goes for the White Hart on Whitechapel High Street. Other than a sign that reads 1729 (iirc) it was just another hangout for slightly older drunks. However, the Churchill Arms in Notting Hill was good. 

Now, don't laugh too much, but we caught the ABBA Voyage show in the ABBA arena (specially built for the show) on Pudding Mill Lane, and it was incredible. Just incredible. Basically holograms of ABBA (but with a live band).  TOTALLY worth it even if you're not a big ABBA fan. Depending on your views of hallucinogens you might want to imbibe a bit before the show. But seriously, I would consider the ABBA show a must see. 

We walked about 8 miles a day and took the tube basically everywhere. 

Go, spend a week in a central location, and enjoy yourself. Cheerio mate!

[Asithappens 974]

- This has been alluded to, but London is expensive af right now, even with the strong(ish) dollar.  As an example, a run of the mill sit-down restaurant family meal (including a beer or mixed drink for each parent) that would be $75-80 in the states often ran $125-130 in London.  

 

Things may have changed a bit, but I found London to be very affordable. Of course, you can spend as much as you want when dining, but we went to a very good Turkish restaurant, Efes (1 Whitechapel Road) and the total bill for four of us was 82 pounds. And no tipping!  We had/shared two appetizers, a Greek salad, and a two kabob plates (one plate was more than enough for two people). We did not have any drinks, however. We raved to the waiter and he threw in a free dessert! The curry places on Brick Lane had entrees for around 12-15 pounds. You can't begin to eat at Pappasito's for that. And when you're out walking around, you can hit up a Pret a Manger and buy a sandwich for less than 5 pounds, or go to a Greg's (we went to one in the Westminster tube station) and get a Steak Bake for less than 3 pounds or a sausage roll for around 2 pounds. 

[gsoda3 3254]

i love the national gallery.  i also love the british museum.  it's my favorite museum in the world.  A History of the World in 100 Objects is a great read, almost a prerequisite, before going to the british museum.  it highlights 100 of the most important artefacts at the museum.

 

something not mentioned in this thread yet-  st martin in the fields.  it's right off trafalgar square, across the street from the national gallery.  get in there for one of their concerts.  they have loads of them.  my favorite ones are the lunch concerts.  they're cheaper than the night concerts and you don't have to make reservations.  if you do make a reservation for an evening concert there's a bistro in the crypt that's alright but if you're feeling adventurous make a quarter mile trek or so north of the church on st martin's lane towards leicester square and see what suits your fancy.  

 

i've seen it briefly mentioned twice but i want to enforce the recommendation for going to greenwich- the national maritime museum and the royal observatory are there.  tremendous museums which could easily both fill several hours of your day.  i wouldn't recommend going to both in one day as they're both informationally dense.   

 

sunday roast - pick a spot and make a reservation.  

[Chopper 17230]

Is there a general Paris thread? I couldn't find one. Anyway just wanted to drop this somewhere for anyone who loves cheese. Newly open in Paris on Île Saint-Louis.

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

No Paris even from Olympics?

St. Tropez / Cannes?  
 

On way to both.  Will post what’s PG.  Cheers Surly…

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

Picture perfect.  Good start.  Maybe secret squirrel updates later. 

[Gil Bang 25945]

oui oui

[Sandman 3403]

Abrasion on the Achilles, would not bang.

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

Cannes is great but 3 days enough for me.  Off to Paris and more chill with the family.  I need it.  FML

Baoli / Medusa etc.  shitty food but amazing scene and talent.  La petite plage Sundays a must… decent food, great music, and scene incredible.  

Wasn’t here for the food anyway.  Hopping over to Paris and hope to get my brain cells sorted.