Largest 15 US cities by GDP

[YGIFS 19453]

This kinda reminds me of the "Would you ever live in a small town" thread.  90% of people in cities don't like living there.  90% of people living in small towns/rural areas don't like living there.  It's a mutually agreed upon facade.  I don't like people or cars or roads or socializing or groups or neighborhoods.  I'd like to be out in the mountains or near an isolated spot on the ocean and away from civilization in a heartbeat.  It's not noble, or interesting, or worth bringing it up at a conference, "Hello, I'm so-and-so and I'm 5th generation East Texan."  That's not admirable, not even accidentally.  People live in cities because there's capital, jobs, and interesting things for their kids to see/do.  That's it.  That's the big fucking reveal.  Texas, and even Austin, are trying their level best to suck as much as possible with the worst possible leadership humanity ever conceived.  But I was raised to make a place better than you found it.  So I'm trying my damndest to keep my kids in a great school district in a city with good assets so they can go on to better things.  I'd just as soon move to my uncle's place in Costa Rica and get outta this shithole.  Meantime, there's business to be done and improvements to be made.  But I'm sure some "leadership" will fuck that up, too.  

[RDCanecutter 26515]

9 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

When all of the broken down washer and dryers that fester around southern lawns wake up, them northern scamps gonna be git!!

When the shootin car starts shootin back...

[Jerry Callo 8777]

3 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Less than 2% of the country is involved in agriculture anymore.  And half of those folks are under the thumb of BigAg/Private Equity/Foreign Corporations.  We don't need them at all.  We just need their land.  They're walking dead and they don't know it yet.  The conversations in dark corners would terrify the shit out of these people.  They're worried about voting when they should be worried about their very survival.  They worry about friendly bank terms and subsidies when what they should be worried about is insignificance.  

Did you lift this from a John Dutton monologue?

[Don Johnson 4758]

11 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I'm far more creeped out in the country than I am the city.  Getting gas in a city vs getting gas in a rural gas station with Cletus hanging out in a booth.....

Everyone is uncomfortable when they get out of their comfort zone.  Lots of people are one or the other.  The country boy that laughs at a city boy for not being to change their oil, is scared to death to ride a subway and insecure just walking into an office building.  So they don't go into the city and act like they don't understand how anyone could like that. 

The guy that snickers at Cletus in rural America, would be intimidated as hell to go roughneck on a drilling rig.  Insecure that they know they could never do that job every day.  So they just make fun of those people and see themselves as better.

Obvious generalizations, but I've seen so many people that fall on either side of this ledger.

[YGIFS 19453]

Yeah, that's true.  And we should all be terrified of a suburban Chili's or Applebee's, but there they fucking are.  Just all shiny and crowded.  How dammit, how?!?!?!?

[Brisketexan 105490]

6 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

Everyone is uncomfortable when they get out of their comfort zone.  Lots of people are one or the other.  The country boy that laughs at a city boy for not being to change their oil, is scared to death to ride a subway and insecure just walking into an office building.  So they don't go into the city and act like they don't understand how anyone could like that. 

The guy that snickers at Cletus in rural America, would be intimidated as hell to go roughneck on a drilling rig.  Insecure that they know they could never do that job every day.  So they just make fun of those people and see themselves as better.

Obvious generalizations, but I've seen so many people that fall on either side of this ledger.

And there are fewer and fewer of us who can comfortably live and move in both spaces.

I love cities, the energy, the business, the conveniences, all that.  Here, in the Northeast, in Europe, wherever.  Cities are cool as shit.  I live in a city, I will likely spend my golden years mostly in cities.

I also love the outdoors, spending days on a ranch, fixing fence, the stars, simple small town pleasures, etc.  I'm perfectly comfortable and happy spending time in a small town and hanging with small town folks (at least for a period of time).  I've spent a good chunk of my life in such places.  But even as a kid growing up in Houston, I realized that I was part of a pretty small group -- when we'd go to the livestock show in elementary school, and many of my classmates were scared shitless of the calves and whatnot.  I remember telling my mother about it, because I was puzzled as hell.  I mean, they're just calves.  They're fuzzy, and dumb, and as long as you don't piss em off and stand in kicking range, all is good.  She explained "son, realize that most of those kids have never been outside of the city, and they sure as hell haven't spent time on a farm or ranch."  She was right.

And now, in Texas in particular, we have a lot of personalities/politicians who pander to the rural masses, but haven't spent any meaningful part of their life actually living among them, living that life, etc.  It's pandering to them on the surface level, without any understanding of what's actually going on, and what actually makes those folks worth standing up for.  Fucking TV ads with starched clean jeans and a polished shiny vintage pickup.  Bitch please.  

[gsoda3 3284]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Don't want to derail this to the CR, but the map below is instructive of the "divide":

sure, but has it gotten that much worse recently?

[Surly Bevo 25288]

Is there a rural/urban divide politically?  Sure.  But it's a gross oversimplification of the problem unless you want to claim that say the 307K who voted for Trump in Dallas county or the 231K who voted for Biden in Collin County just don't count.  Trump got basically 5.9M votes in Texas.  He got almost 2M of those in Harris, Dallas, Tarrant, Travis and Bexar county alone.  Throw in surrounding counties that are definitely NOT rural and well there you have it.  Texas is not alone in that kind of trend.

It would be nice if the problem was that easily put in a box.....but it's not.  

Edited March 14, 2023 by Surly Bevo

[Pato del Muerto 52687]

55 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Yeah, that's true.  And we should all be terrified of a suburban Chili's or Applebee's, but there they fucking are.  Just all shiny and crowded.  How dammit, how?!?!?!?

I hear the chilis on 45th is transcendent. You should check it out. 

[closetohumping 17506]

1 hour ago, Don Johnson said:

Everyone is uncomfortable when they get out of their comfort zone.  Lots of people are one or the other.  The country boy that laughs at a city boy for not being to change their oil, is scared to death to ride a subway and insecure just walking into an office building.  So they don't go into the city and act like they don't understand how anyone could like that. 

The guy that snickers at Cletus in rural America, would be intimidated as hell to go roughneck on a drilling rig.  Insecure that they know they could never do that job every day.  So they just make fun of those people and see themselves as better.

Obvious generalizations, but I've seen so many people that fall on either side of this ledger.

Cletus to me is a term of endearment sir.

[Samson's Wig 3195]

13 hours ago, goodiemob said:

Who thinks this?

A voter from 1985.

[YGIFS 19453]

29 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

A voter from 1985.

1985:  "Why do you need a fake ID?"

AMHinBC:  "So I can vote."  

[Brisketexan 105490]

1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

Is there a rural/urban divide politically?  Sure.  But it's a gross oversimplification of the problem unless you want to claim that say the 307K who voted for Trump in Dallas county or the 231K who voted for Biden in Collin County just don't count.  Trump got basically 5.9M votes in Texas.  He got almost 2M of those in Harris, Dallas, Tarrant, Travis and Bexar county alone.  Throw in surrounding counties that are definitely NOT rural and well there you have it.  Texas is not alone in that kind of trend.

It would be nice if the problem was that easily put in a box.....but it's not.  

ENTIRELY?  No.  But when you break down even those "urban" counties, and realize that a crapload of those votes came from suburban areas, and folks who envision themselves CULTURALLY as "rural real Americans" as oppose to "city folk" (think of every Aggy with a jacked up F-250 living in Katy), that accounts for a huge chunk of the folks on that side of the "divide."

In fact, that's an interesting part of the phenomenon -- how it's been made a cultural identity that doesn't necessarily tie to actual living location/conditions.  The suburbs are where the lines get blurry and odd.  Even though Katy Aggy guy depends on city infrastructure, economic activity, resources, amenities, etc.....he still fancies himself just a simple fella of the land, and he has no use for those fancy city dwellers, with their lattes and avocado toast (again, irony: the strip malls in Katy probably have more shops selling both of those items than inner loop Houston does all together).

Edited March 14, 2023 by Brisketexan

[YGIFS 19453]

And the red votes in a blue urban MSA count as much as the blue 'urban' votes in a red state.  Which means, not much at all.

My point was we don't need rural/exurban areas like we used to.  I'd love to move out there when the kids graduate.  I fucking hate cities.  Only reason I live 3 miles from downtown Austin is because the kids here can read.  For now.  

The map just illustrates, not so much a state by state divide as there are places where talent and capital flock.  And there are places where they don't.  This idiotic notion that businesses and their employees relocate because of politics is fucking laughable.  Not even the people that say it on TV believe it.  

[Brisketexan 105490]

1 minute ago, YGIFS said:

This idiotic notion that businesses and their employees relocate because of politics is fucking laughable.  Not even the people that say it on TV believe it.  

Businesses do (relocate for economics).  And young people starting out do (move to where the jobs are).  But something that has changed is that older people DON'T.  We used to be much more mobile (everybody hopping onto Route 66 to find a better life in California, all the people from Michigan who flocked to Houston 40+ years ago when the job market sucked in Michigan, but Houston was booming -- the joke was "last one outta Michigan turn out the lights," that sort of thing).

You've heard my pitch I would have given to the W. Virginia coal miners begging for coal to come back (it won't.  Ever.  It may experience a few little rises and falls, but the days of increasing coal extraction are over).  "Hey guys....I found your coal mining jobs!  They're now construction jobs in Houston -- go and get 'em!"  But they won't.  They'll stay there, with their dying industry, hoping that it will come back and refusing to LEAVE AND GO WHERE THE JOBS ARE.  I don't get it.  Sure, I get "I love where I'm from, I was raised here," all that.  But every generation has been able to say that....as they loaded up the car and drove west for a new life.

The bottom line for so many of these people: you want a better life?  Move out of PossumPecker, head to a city where there are jobs, and start a new life.  Sure, they can't afford to go places where the costs of living are the highest (NYC, SF, Austin), but they can damn well get to Houston, or Phoenix, etc., and live a damn nice life.  Signed, a guy who grew up in Houston with a pretty decent middle class life, provided by parents who grew up in McAllen and Eagle Pass.

[Samson's Wig 3195]

3 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

And the red votes in a blue urban MSA count as much as the blue 'urban' votes in a red state.  Which means, not much at all.

My point was we don't need rural/exurban areas like we used to.  I'd love to move out there when the kids graduate.  I fucking hate cities.  Only reason I live 3 miles from downtown Austin is because the kids here can read.  For now.  

The map just illustrates, not so much a state by state divide as there are places where talent and capital flock.  And there are places where they don't.  This idiotic notion that businesses and their employees relocate because of politics is fucking laughable.  Not even the people that say it on TV believe it.  

It's a sad state of affairs when crumbling AISD keeps anyone in place.  I'm right there with you and wish all the time there was an option well outside of town for a couple of intelligent kids to receive a decent education in a culturally stimulating environment.  The suburban schools rank high on paper but come with the mouth-breathing, book-burning, low-info moron contingent.  Frats and sororities have to raise new recruits somewhere, I guess. 

There is probably a gem of a rural school hiding out there somewhere, but I've yet to hear of it.

 

 

 

[BabaYaga 15332]

4 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

This idiotic notion that businesses and their employees relocate because of politics is fucking laughable.  Not even the people that say it on TV believe it.  

People and companies vote with their pocketbooks.  Companies flocked to certain municipalities because of the available labor options and tax implications.  Silicon valley boomed due to the capital markets and intellectual availability of the workforce.  Plano flourished years prior due an availability of tax incentives and skilled labor.  Austin is much the same.  

You can talk about people leaving California due to tax implications, but the reality is they are financially stable enough to do so.  The layman has fewer options.  

[BabaYaga 15332]

As additional caveat, with the acceptance of a remote workplace, geo-specificity becomes less relevant.  Will social and political considerations take a larger role in where people live?  Maybe.   

[Samson's Wig 3195]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Businesses do (relocate for economics).  And young people starting out do (move to where the jobs are).  But something that has changed is that older people DON'T.  We used to be much more mobile (everybody hopping onto Route 66 to find a better life in California, all the people from Michigan who flocked to Houston 40+ years ago when the job market sucked in Michigan, but Houston was booming -- the joke was "last one outta Michigan turn out the lights," that sort of thing).

You've heard my pitch I would have given to the W. Virginia coal miners begging for coal to come back (it won't.  Ever.  It may experience a few little rises and falls, but the days of increasing coal extraction are over).  "Hey guys....I found your coal mining jobs!  They're now construction jobs in Houston -- go and get 'em!"  But they won't.  They'll stay there, with their dying industry, hoping that it will come back and refusing to LEAVE AND GO WHERE THE JOBS ARE.  I don't get it.  Sure, I get "I love where I'm from, I was raised here," all that.  But every generation has been able to say that....as they loaded up the car and drove west for a new life.

The bottom line for so many of these people: you want a better life?  Move out of PossumPecker, head to a city where there are jobs, and start a new life.  Sure, they can't afford to go places where the costs of living are the highest (NYC, SF, Austin), but they can damn well get to Houston, or Phoenix, etc., and live a damn nice life.  Signed, a guy who grew up in Houston with a pretty decent middle class life, provided by parents who grew up in McAllen and Eagle Pass.

If anything, this is a sign that being poor now is not as devastating as it used to be. 

[BabaYaga 15332]

5 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

There is probably a gem of a rural school hiding out there somewhere, but I've yet to hear of it.

 

You can make the argument regarding student to teacher ratios.  Smaller schools with smaller classes and involved teachers is rarely a recipe for problems.  There are always exceptions, but these massive, multi-thousands of student schools are problematic for many students 

[gmr548 16617]

That's a staggering statistic. The rest of the US accounts for only 3 trillion dollars. I would have thought agriculture alone would have been 5 trillion.

US metropolitan GDP presumably refers to all MSAs, for which the qualifying size is something like 50k or 100k. There’s plenty of agriculture within MSA boundaries as counties are included or not included wholesale. Most of the California Central Valley is within various MSA’s, for example.

[Captain Ron 12936]

24 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

And the red votes in a blue urban MSA count as much as the blue 'urban' votes in a red state.  Which means, not much at all.

My point was we don't need rural/exurban areas like we used to.  I'd love to move out there when the kids graduate.  I fucking hate cities.  Only reason I live 3 miles from downtown Austin is because the kids here can read.  For now.  

The map just illustrates, not so much a state by state divide as there are places where talent and capital flock.  And there are places where they don't.  This idiotic notion that businesses and their employees relocate because of politics is fucking laughable.  Not even the people that say it on TV believe it.  

Huh?

Then why is Elon setting up shop in Texas? Why Did the Founder Fund move to Miami (BTW - I have literally heard Keith Rabois say that Miami's/Florida's politics are better than California's/the Valley's). 

I think firms and people with big pocket books will do it because in the end along with the politics, they also get financial incentives to do so. Remote work has made that easier to do because if your talent doesn't follow, you can leave then behind and still have your HQ where you want with its smaller tax base. The question will be what will happen as remote work starts to go away. We all thought it was here to stay, but maybe not as we see a lot of companies requiring it more.

Then the real question is what will the talent do it? There is a reason that MOST the leading places that are on this map are on it and that is because they produce the talent. Of the top 10:

1-5, 8 & 10  are all rich in schools - churn out talent

6 & 7 - Oil & Gas with a smaller school base that turn out a touch less talent

9 - the same as Houston/Dallas but with Tech companies instead of oil & gas.

[ABSR 5327]

18 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

I remain convinced that the Northeast is actually one city, starting from the Fredericksburg VA train station, and ending a mile north of the Dunkin Donuts in South Portland ME.

The individual "mayors" are paid off by the sports franchises to keep their yaps shut.

So same assholes, but different accents! 

Kind of like here.

[closetohumping 17506]

46 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Businesses do (relocate for economics).  And young people starting out do (move to where the jobs are).  But something that has changed is that older people DON'T.  We used to be much more mobile (everybody hopping onto Route 66 to find a better life in California, all the people from Michigan who flocked to Houston 40+ years ago when the job market sucked in Michigan, but Houston was booming -- the joke was "last one outta Michigan turn out the lights," that sort of thing).

You've heard my pitch I would have given to the W. Virginia coal miners begging for coal to come back (it won't.  Ever.  It may experience a few little rises and falls, but the days of increasing coal extraction are over).  "Hey guys....I found your coal mining jobs!  They're now construction jobs in Houston -- go and get 'em!"  But they won't.  They'll stay there, with their dying industry, hoping that it will come back and refusing to LEAVE AND GO WHERE THE JOBS ARE.  I don't get it.  Sure, I get "I love where I'm from, I was raised here," all that.  But every generation has been able to say that....as they loaded up the car and drove west for a new life.

The bottom line for so many of these people: you want a better life?  Move out of PossumPecker, head to a city where there are jobs, and start a new life.  Sure, they can't afford to go places where the costs of living are the highest (NYC, SF, Austin), but they can damn well get to Houston, or Phoenix, etc., and live a damn nice life.  Signed, a guy who grew up in Houston with a pretty decent middle class life, provided by parents who grew up in McAllen and Eagle Pass.

Innovate in California, move to red state for tax breaks ten years later.

[SydneyCarton 48255]

4 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

i haven't noticed an urban vs rural divide worth mentioning.  am i living in a bubble?

Yes.

2 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

sure, but has it gotten that much worse recently?

Absolutely, yes. 

[Surly Bevo 25288]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

ENTIRELY?  No.  But when you break down even those "urban" counties, and realize that a crapload of those votes came from suburban areas, and folks who envision themselves CULTURALLY as "rural real Americans" as oppose to "city folk" (think of every Aggy with a jacked up F-250 living in Katy), that accounts for a huge chunk of the folks on that side of the "divide."

In fact, that's an interesting part of the phenomenon -- how it's been made a cultural identity that doesn't necessarily tie to actual living location/conditions.  The suburbs are where the lines get blurry and odd.  Even though Katy Aggy guy depends on city infrastructure, economic activity, resources, amenities, etc.....he still fancies himself just a simple fella of the land, and he has no use for those fancy city dwellers, with their lattes and avocado toast (again, irony: the strip malls in Katy probably have more shops selling both of those items than inner loop Houston does all together).

I still think that is a gross oversimplification using a straw man aggy stereotype but I guess that's what you got.  What if that aggy you described turned out to be the Liberal Redneck or the Buttercream Dream?   What is the problem you hope to solve by broad brushstroking everybody into urban=liberal democrat, everything else = real rural MAGA American.  What the fuck does it matter what kind of car they drive?  I am quite sure there are Prius drivers going MAGA and Ford Truck drivers going sensible.  

[Brisketexan 105490]

44 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

I still think that is a gross oversimplification using a straw man aggy stereotype but I guess that's what you got.  What if that aggy you described turned out to be the Liberal Redneck or the Buttercream Dream?   What is the problem you hope to solve by broad brushstroking everybody into urban=liberal democrat, everything else = real rural MAGA American.  What the fuck does it matter what kind of car they drive?  I am quite sure there are Prius drivers going MAGA and Ford Truck drivers going sensible.  

Of course there are.  Never did I say "all."  There are hardcore liberal types living in PossumPecker (they moved there because they could farm organic chia seeds and go solar, whatever).  There are ultra-MAGAs who live in the middle of NYC.  I'm positive there are ultra MAGAS who drive Priuses (Pri-i?), and plenty of Dem voters who drive trucks (hell, I'm one of those).  We're talking bulk trends.  Travis County ballot boxes went 72-27 for Biden in the last election.  McCulloch county went 84-15 Trump.  So, tens of thousands of Trump voters in Travis County.  Hundreds of Biden voters (only 3500 votes total in that county) in McCulloch.  Few places are 100% anything.  If you look at suburban precincts, they aren't as lopsided -- the example I used, Katy, is probably in the 60-40 Trump voter class, or somewhere near that (Brazoria county was about that, Montgomery county was about 70-30).  I specifically said that the lines get "blurry" there.  That's functionally the opposite of me saying "all."  In the burbs, you've got a blended culture (not just rural and urban, but also white v ethnic, see what's happened in Ft. Bend county in recent years). 

To bring it all back home to the original, NON-CR point of this, "rural American culture" (whether it's actual rural Americans, or self-styled rural Americans who just have some trappings of the "rural" life and/or claim it as their identity) and "urban American culture" (including aspiring "cultural elites" who may not live in a large urban area) have been purposefully pitted against each other, at our collective expense.

[ABSR 5327]

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

And there are fewer and fewer of us who can comfortably live and move in both spaces.

I love cities, the energy, the business, the conveniences, all that.  Here, in the Northeast, in Europe, wherever.  Cities are cool as shit.  I live in a city, I will likely spend my golden years mostly in cities.

I also love the outdoors, spending days on a ranch, fixing fence, the stars, simple small town pleasures, etc.  I'm perfectly comfortable and happy spending time in a small town and hanging with small town folks (at least for a period of time).  I've spent a good chunk of my life in such places.  But even as a kid growing up in Houston, I realized that I was part of a pretty small group -- when we'd go to the livestock show in elementary school, and many of my classmates were scared shitless of the calves and whatnot.  I remember telling my mother about it, because I was puzzled as hell.  I mean, they're just calves.  They're fuzzy, and dumb, and as long as you don't piss em off and stand in kicking range, all is good.  She explained "son, realize that most of those kids have never been outside of the city, and they sure as hell haven't spent time on a farm or ranch."  She was right.

And now, in Texas in particular, we have a lot of personalities/politicians who pander to the rural masses, but haven't spent any meaningful part of their life actually living among them, living that life, etc.  It's pandering to them on the surface level, without any understanding of what's actually going on, and what actually makes those folks worth standing up for.  Fucking TV ads with starched clean jeans and a polished shiny vintage pickup.  Bitch please.  

That’s a lot of words just for you to tell us you consider $20 to be $20 whether you are in the city or the country.

[Fudge Nuggets 19242]

21 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

That's a staggering statistic. The rest of the US accounts for only 3 trillion dollars. I would have thought agriculture alone would have been 5 trillion.

Rubes need to start pulling their own weight. 

[Dnaguy 12186]

On 3/13/2023 at 10:25 AM, closetohumping said:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/us-cities-by-gdp-map/

 

TLDR - The south has risen, but looks like some of the coastal cities can still hang.  Boston is doing well for such a tiny geographic spot, Seattle tambien. 

 

Exxon moved its headquarter to Houston, no?

That spring campus is now the headquarters I thought.

[Fudge Nuggets 19242]

8 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Some messaging that we all need to cooperate and collaborate, instead of treating each other as demons, would be mighty fucking helpful.

Fuck your messaging.

[fattyflattie 4639]

15 hours ago, YGIFS said:

We just need their land.

That’s a pretty big fucking part of the agricultural equation.   

[fattyflattie 4639]

9 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

The bottom line for so many of these people: you want a better life?  Move out of PossumPecker, head to a city where there are jobs, and start a new life.  Sure, they can't afford to go places where the costs of living are the highest (NYC, SF, Austin), but they can damn well get to Houston, or Phoenix, etc., and live a damn nice life.  Signed, a guy who grew up in Houston with a pretty decent middle class life, provided by parents who grew up in McAllen and Eagle Pass

Funny. This statement was worth several negs in the homeless thread just yesterday.  

[Captain Ron 12936]

On this whole Rural vs Urban, there was a good podcast that really nails why there is such a us vs them mentality. IT's specifically talking about SVB, where I've cued this up to. The meat of the Us vs Them starts at around 20:00 (this is where I recommend you start), but he really digs into the distrust of the tech sector at 24:10 - which even as someone that works in this sector I totally get why this rings true.

 

 

[Eastwood 4394]

I am one of those rare types that Brisket talked about that can exist in both the rural world and urban world. I was born and spent half of my childhood in Small Town, Texas. Half of my family still lives in Small Town, Texas and I visit them regularly. I live in a big city and frequent many downtown areas in other big cities around the nation. I’ve ridden horses, herded cattle with catahoula cowdogs, and pulled a breach birth calf out of a cow.  I also have a post graduate education, work white collar, and have enjoyed big city comforts for two decades.

I’ve seen the slack jawed Cletus and the homeless camps. I’ve talked to the proverbial big city welfare queen and the farmer who gets by on ag subsidies. Neither know a damn thing about how the other lives or how they got there, but they hate each other because they were told that they have to. They have been told that the other benefits off of their burdens. 
 

We’re all fighting the same struggle. It only looks different on its face. The divide is there, has been there for decades, and getting deeper. Anyone who can’t see that is in their own bubble. What this country really needs is an honest look at the other side. Unfiltered. You’ll stop seeing Cletus and Welfare Queen and start seeing people who are systematically suffering from the same issues. 

[YGIFS 19453]

^
Well stated.  I didn't really think about it until much later in life.  But I lived on the West Coast, the East Coast, the RGV, and Chicago.  I have lived in a town that at the time had 3,000 people in it (I think it's a whopping 4-5k now).  I have lived in a town with over a million people in it.  

But I have almost always been around people of various socio-economic levels.  And always around people of color.  I think that's kept me grounded.  Cities, rural, suburbs, exurbs, everything in between.  Only universal truth I've found in any of 'em is ain't nothing more annoying than an uneducated, entitled white asshole.  Rest I can deal with.

Edited March 17, 2023 by YGIFS

[closetohumping 17506]

1 hour ago, Eastwood said:

I am one of those rare types that Brisket talked about that can exist in both the rural world and urban world. I was born and spent half of my childhood in Small Town, Texas. Half of my family still lives in Small Town, Texas and I visit them regularly. I live in a big city and frequent many downtown areas in other big cities around the nation. I’ve ridden horses, herded cattle with catahoula cowdogs, and pulled a breach birth calf out of a cow.  I also have a post graduate education, work white collar, and have enjoyed big city comforts for two decades.

I’ve seen the slack jawed Cletus and the homeless camps. I’ve talked to the proverbial big city welfare queen and the farmer who gets by on ag subsidies. Neither know a damn thing about how the other lives or how they got there, but they hate each other because they were told that they have to. They have been told that the other benefits off of their burdens. 
 

We’re all fighting the same struggle. It only looks different on its face. The divide is there, has been there for decades, and getting deeper. Anyone who can’t see that is in their own bubble. What this country really needs is an honest look at the other side. Unfiltered. You’ll stop seeing Cletus and Welfare Queen and start seeing people who are systematically suffering from the same issues. 

Got damn what a post.  Will be back with my thoughts later.

[Bateshorn 9942]

What is fascinating to me is that, as a child of Texas urban wealth, I was able to pass in rural communities for most of my adult life, but in the last 5 years, I really can't do it anymore.  Part of it is clothing:  I lean towards what you expect costal bobo elite to wear: patagonia, bean, tech gear, etc. But part of it, even when I'm careful how I dress, is just manner and colloquilisms, etc.  Even when I slide into my Texas twang, people know something is a bit off.  I particularly noticed it in West Texas. 

Also, I've used this phrase before: Farmers are welfare queens in Carhartt. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Bateshorn

[Aqua Buddha 14643]

On 3/14/2023 at 2:28 PM, Samson's Wig said:

If anything, this is a sign that being poor now is not as devastating as it used to be. 

 

On 3/14/2023 at 2:23 PM, Brisketexan said:

Businesses do (relocate for economics).  And young people starting out do (move to where the jobs are).  But something that has changed is that older people DON'T.  We used to be much more mobile (everybody hopping onto Route 66 to find a better life in California, all the people from Michigan who flocked to Houston 40+ years ago when the job market sucked in Michigan, but Houston was booming -- the joke was "last one outta Michigan turn out the lights," that sort of thing).

You've heard my pitch I would have given to the W. Virginia coal miners begging for coal to come back (it won't.  Ever.  It may experience a few little rises and falls, but the days of increasing coal extraction are over).  "Hey guys....I found your coal mining jobs!  They're now construction jobs in Houston -- go and get 'em!"  But they won't.  They'll stay there, with their dying industry, hoping that it will come back and refusing to LEAVE AND GO WHERE THE JOBS ARE.  I don't get it.  Sure, I get "I love where I'm from, I was raised here," all that.  But every generation has been able to say that....as they loaded up the car and drove west for a new life.

The bottom line for so many of these people: you want a better life?  Move out of PossumPecker, head to a city where there are jobs, and start a new life.  Sure, they can't afford to go places where the costs of living are the highest (NYC, SF, Austin), but they can damn well get to Houston, or Phoenix, etc., and live a damn nice life.  Signed, a guy who grew up in Houston with a pretty decent middle class life, provided by parents who grew up in McAllen and Eagle Pass.

Both of these are very good points and I think they're intrinsically linked.  While mobility is down, especially with older people, that makes it easier to be poor in these rural areas.  They can all help each other out.  (Poor people live in clusters.)  They'll never be rich but they can get by.  There's almost zero risk whereas moving off to Phoenix or Houston is very risky.

I wanted to add that I feel little sympathy for these people, too.  This country was built by people who packed up and moved.  We have people literally dying to come here and work a chicken plant but they're too comfortable living with their parents to strike out on their own.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Aqua Buddha