Religion, weaponized religion, and the separation of church and state

[The Original Greaser Bob 2,830]

I guess netted out, the evangelicals have stolen all the oxygen in the room, so some pretty anti-Christian and religious sentiments an understandably acceptable short cut.

As someone who was a Catholic for 18 years and then has dabbled with soft-shelled Methodism since then, I've found it pretty easy not to be controlling or prosletyzing or anti-science, and by and large I haven't been involved in particular congregations that have encouraged individuals to engage in that behavior. 

[Celery Man 20,943]

Hey happy Easter everyone! The core values of the GOP are diametrically opposed with those of Jesus Christ.

[hookemATL 11,724]

3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Hey happy Easter everyone! The core values of the GOP are diametrically opposed with those of Jesus Christ.

I looked for this card to give to my relatives but no such luck. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2,830]

9 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Hey happy Easter everyone! The core values of the GOP are diametrically opposed with those of Jesus Christ.

Grabbing Easter by the Pussy Since 2016.

[Captainant 27,660]

20 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

As someone who was a Catholic for 18 years and then has dabbled with soft-shelled Methodism since then, I've found it pretty easy not to be controlling or prosletyzing or anti-science, and by and large I haven't been involved in particular congregations that have encouraged individuals to engage in that behavior. 

Counterpoint: my in laws have been members and involved with their Methodist church and they just had a huge schism over if they should treat gay people like people or not and recognize their loving marriages

It's fucking bad everywhere. Even in the place it shouldn't be. (American) Christianity is too accepting of hate and bigotry and does nothing to reign in or speak against it's worst members

[The Original Greaser Bob 2,830]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

It's fucking bad everywhere. Even in the place it shouldn't be. (American) Christianity is too accepting of hate and bigotry and does nothing to reign in or speak against it's worst members

Pretty much add every other institution and most people as being too accepting of hate. Mainstream, non-evangelical churches tend to obey the tax rules and avoid pontificating in the media, let alone from the pulpit.  I would say they, on the whole, try to encourage individuals to act in a non-hateful way.

[nbmishoid 949]

18 hours ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I noticed you left out "existence itself" and relationships to others.

Science is a language used to explain the world, as is history and religion.  There is nothing remotely "anti-religioius" about science.  A religioius person understands science just like everyone else.  

The scientist, who pushes religion away, is simply pushing a tool for understanding away, just like he would if he pushed history, or the classics, of the study of Western Civilization. 

Existence itself?  Is that you, Sartre?  Hegel?  Plenty of bs about existence itself outside the Bible.  No, your typical religious person doesn’t understand science.  The typical religious person, say, republican, understands political power, and how to use it against their fellow citizens. 

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1,258]

Fuck it, nm

https://apnews.com/article/mormon-church-child-sex-abuse-e02ae4470a5a53cbeb9aa146ff2762ac

Edited April 12, 2023 by TheRealRonWeaver?

[atomheartbevo 89,659]

19 minutes ago, TheRealRonWeaver? said:

Fuck it, nm

https://apnews.com/article/mormon-church-child-sex-abuse-e02ae4470a5a53cbeb9aa146ff2762ac

Surprised?  Remember these guys.

[Nivek 16,928]

yet another reason to tax them and treat them like a clubhouse.  Your average psychiatrist has a higher educational, ethical, and moral compass than any religious clergyman, and yet these dumbfucks are allowed to conceal crimes because they talk to imaginary friends?  

 

[formermav43 4,606]

9 minutes ago, Nivek said:

yet another reason to tax them and treat them like a clubhouse. 

Social clubs don’t generally pay taxes either.

[Nivek 16,928]

28 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Social clubs don’t generally pay taxes either.

bueno vista?

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Fuck this bullshit.

[gyroprotagonist 2,592]

7 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Fuck this bullshit.
 

but no, these crazy fucking GQP religious zealots are not *really* wanting a southern baptist theocracy, right? 

[UpperWestside 6,163]

I see this stuff and it disgusts me. Organized religion has been and will always get hi-jacked by people or groups of people who want to use it to either control the masses, make money, or as is most often the case, both. 
 

I am a Christian, but I tend to keep my distance from any church that preaches money, money, money or intolerance. I feel that I am no better a person than anyone else, but seeing people use Christ’s name to shame and subjugate others is embarrassing and ridiculous. 
 

I count among my friends people that are believers in Christ, those who are Muslim, Buddhist and those who believe in none of it. The thing they all have in common is not being an extremist and they all look at their fellow human beings as their equal no matter their beliefs. The Christian zealots and blasphemers that are cited in this thread should be shot straight into the sun for what they are doing. Passing that bill in Texas is peak absurdity.

Edited April 21, 2023 by UpperWestside

[safe sex 11,721]

When do the feds step in a la Eisenhower?

[hobbes2702 13,033]

9 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Fuck this bullshit.
 

In what way is that remotely constitutional? 

[hobbes2702 13,033]

12 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I see this stuff and it disgusts me. Organized religion has been and will always get hi-jacked by people or groups of people who want to use it to either control the masses, make money, or as is most often the case, both. 
 

I am a Christian, but I tend to keep my distance from any church that preaches money, money, money or intolerance. I feel that I am no better a person than anyone else, but seeing people use Christ’s name to shame and subjugate others is embarrassing and ridiculous. 
 

I count among my friends people that are believers in Christ, those who are Muslim, Buddhist and those who believe in none of it. The thing they all have in common is not being an extremist and they all look at their fellow human beings as their equal no matter their beliefs. The Christian zealots and blasphemers that are cited in this thread should be shot straight into the sun for what they are doing. Passing that bill in Texas is peak absurdity.

Religion exists as a method for subjugation.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

20 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

In what way is that remotely constitutional? 

Are you under the impression that document means shit these days? 

[UpperWestside 6,163]

33 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Religion exists as a method for subjugation.

I have never felt subjugated in being a Christian, but I agree with the tenet of what happens when religion is weaponized. That can be Christianity, Islam or any other religious belief system. If I ever felt I was in a Christian church that was preaching hate, intolerance or anything else not in line with anything Christ actually said I’d be out the door like that. I have been blessed to be around so many different belief systems here in New York. I find that being around so much diversity in higher power beliefs is a good thing. 
 

That stuff in Texas is just dangerous because it demonizes non-Christians and we all know kids will start singling out ones who don’t believe like they do. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,779]

https://ffrf.org/donate

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,869]

guessing a lawsuit from the Church of Satan is emminent

[Fastbreak 3,985]

Religion is a plague that needs to be curb stomped. It has brought the most pain, misery, war and death on humanity while hindering most progress.

It’s time to end the fairy tales…

[nbmishoid 949]

5 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

Religion is a plague that needs to be curb stomped. It has brought the most pain, misery, war and death on humanity while hindering most progress.

It’s time to end the fairy tales…

Errbody says this, round here.   Question: how?

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

In what way is that remotely constitutional? 

They'll advocate for the original federal freedom of religion. Some states still had blasphemy laws after the Constitution was ratified. 

[Neonmoon 38,129]

3 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Errbody says this, round here.   Question: how?

There is no how. 

Humans have believed fairy tales since the beginning of time. Norse Gods, Egyptian Gods, Greek Gods, Jesus, Allah, Santa Clause, etc, People want a reason for existing. They’d rather believe magic than simply enjoy the experience of existing 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Bad post, retracted

Edited April 22, 2023 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Religion is a plague that needs to be curb stomped. It has brought the most pain, misery, war and death on humanity while hindering most progress.

It’s time to end the fairy tales…

I like the way you think.

[atomheartbevo 89,659]

2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

In what way is that remotely constitutional? 

It owns the libtards

[BevoAbyss 2,058]

1 hour ago, nbmishoid said:

Errbody says this, round here.   Question: how?

That's the million dollar question. How?

One thing for certain. It ain't coming from the media, corporations, academia, or the Democrats. Biden? AOC? Too much Catholicism. Too much Christianity.

Too much of America is utterly brainwashed into believing religion is a force for good, conveniently cherry-picking from the Bible, while ignoring the horror stories in the Bible and the atrocities committed by religions all over the world. Just read some of the comments above. It's all a bunch of narcissistic delusion in the belief that their personal destiny is ordained by the Creator of a universe with two trillion galaxies stretching across 100 billion light years. Lulz.

But how can religion's political takeover be stopped or at least halted?

I guess, somehow, the 30-35% of Americans who are non-religious need to organize on local, national, and international scales. And they need to have a platform and manifesto, just for starters. If it is not too late. But maybe the non-religious are too apathetic because consumer society offers endless distractions....

Edited April 22, 2023 by BevoAbyss

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Elect Neil deGrasse Tyson. In any capacity.

[Satchel 6,938]

3 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

I have never felt subjugated in being a Christian, but I agree with the tenet of what happens when religion is weaponized. That can be Christianity, Islam or any other religious belief system. If I ever felt I was in a Christian church that was preaching hate, intolerance or anything else not in line with anything Christ actually said I’d be out the door like that. I have been blessed to be around so many different belief systems here in New York. I find that being around so much diversity in higher power beliefs is a good thing. 
 

That stuff in Texas is just dangerous because it demonizes non-Christians and we all know kids will start singling out ones who don’t believe like they do. 

While religion can be problematic, the real threat is fundamentalism of any kind, sacred or secular.

[Sawbonz 27,548]

3 hours ago, BevoAbyss said:

That's the million dollar question. How?

One thing for certain. It ain't coming from the media, corporations, academia, or the Democrats. Biden? AOC? Too much Catholicism. Too much Christianity.

Too much of America is utterly brainwashed into believing religion is a force for good, conveniently cherry-picking from the Bible, while ignoring the horror stories in the Bible and the atrocities committed by religions all over the world. Just read some of the comments above. It's all a bunch of narcissistic delusion in the belief that their personal destiny is ordained by the Creator of a universe with two trillion galaxies stretching across 100 billion light years. Lulz.

But how can religion's political takeover be stopped or at least halted?

I guess, somehow, the 30-35% of Americans who are non-religious need to organize on local, national, and international scales. And they need to have a platform and manifesto, just for starters. If it is not too late. But maybe the non-religious are too apathetic because consumer society offers endless distractions....

The only people as annoying as proselytizing Christians are proselytizing atheists. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Sawbonz
grammer

[WhatTheBuck 28,779]

Just saw a blurb on the news that it was on this date in 1864 that Congress authorized that “In God We Trust” be placed on our nation’s currency.

Fuck them.

[WhatTheBuck 28,779]

8 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

The only people as annoying as proselytizing Christians are proselytizing atheists. 

Hide it under a bushel? NO! I’m gonna let it shine!

Religious fanatics constantly cramming their ignorance and superstition down our throats demands a response. People need to know that there’s another way. You don’t HAVE to believe.

We’re all born atheists. The first step on my road to deconversion was learning that atheism was actually a thing. I heard about Madalyn Murray O’Hair. Before then I didn’t even know that there were people who didn’t believe in God. One day when I was about 11 years old, I asked my best friend from church, “What if God doesn’t exist?” Just a simple question. My friend freaked the fuck out. He started shouting, “You’d better fall on your knees right now and ask for forgiveness!” He was afraid to even consider the possibility. That was educational. I wonder how many people there are out there who are too frightened to even consider the possibility. I think it’s important that people know that there are perfectly good, kind, thoughtful, decent people out there who don’t believe in God. They’re not murderers and rapists, devoid of any conscience. A child is much more likely to get raped by a member of the clergy than by an atheist and our prisons are full of believers.

And no, atheism isn’t a belief system. It’s a lack of belief. It’s no more an ideology than “off” is a TV channel. But I think it’s true that living without magical belief in your system has a positive effect on your worldview. And it’s been my experience that religious people tend to let that magical thinking creep into other parts of their life. They tend to be more superstitious in general.

[Sawbonz 27,548]

31 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Hide it under a bushel? NO! I’m gonna let it shine!

Religious fanatics constantly cramming their ignorance and superstition down our throats demands a response. People need to know that there’s another way. You don’t HAVE to believe.

We’re all born atheists. The first step on my road to deconversion was learning that atheism was actually a thing. I heard about Madalyn Murray O’Hair. Before then I didn’t even know that there were people who didn’t believe in God. One day when I was about 11 years old, I asked my best friend from church, “What if God doesn’t exist?” Just a simple question. My friend freaked the fuck out. He started shouting, “You’d better fall on your knees right now and ask for forgiveness!” He was afraid to even consider the possibility. That was educational. I wonder how many people there are out there who are too frightened to even consider the possibility. I think it’s important that people know that there are perfectly good, kind, thoughtful, decent people out there who don’t believe in God. They’re not murderers and rapists, devoid of any conscience. A child is much more likely to get raped by a member of the clergy than by an atheist and our prisons are full of believers.

And no, atheism isn’t a belief system. It’s a lack of belief. It’s no more an ideology than “off” is a TV channel. But I think it’s true that living without magical belief in your system has a positive effect on your worldview. And it’s been my experience that religious people tend to let that magical thinking creep into other parts of their life. They tend to be more superstitious in general.

Are you trying to prove my point?

[WhatTheBuck 28,779]

48 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Are you trying to prove my point?

You were asking for it. I was just answering the call.

If you want to make the atheists shut up, stop the Christians from trying to impose their religion on everyone else. 

[Sawbonz 27,548]

14 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

You were asking for it. I was just answering the call.

If you want to make the atheists shut up, stop the Christians from trying to impose their religion on everyone else. 

couldn’t help yourself huh? Kind of like some of the JFK assassination conspiracy theorists I know.

Amazing how you guys leave out Soviet Russia, Maoist China, pol pot’s Cambodia etc when you pontificate about how great state run atheism would be. I’ve had this argument ad nauseum IRL as well as on this online community in its iterations going back to HF, so I’m not interested in getting into it in detail, but one statement has stuck with me when discussing the Soviet state sanctioned murder of thousands priests, bishops, and lay church members, and my friend’s response was that those deaths were necessary to save other lives and establish communism. No irony at all

 

and I would love to be able to stop religious zealots of all faiths from being able to impose their religions on the society at large. In fact, I believe if I could load up the 10% at the extreme on either side of the issue and shoot them into the sun,  the rest of us would get along reasonably well

 

[Nivek 16,928]

17 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

In what way is that remotely constitutional? 

depends on what Harlon Crow wants. 

[Nivek 16,928]

10 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

The only people as annoying as proselytizing Christians are proselytizing atheists. 

Atheists have exactly 0 holidays and 0 known representatives in government despite being 1/3 of the population (by some estimates).    Maybe they have something to their bitching.  

[Sawbonz 27,548]

5 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Atheists have exactly 0 holidays and 0 known representatives in government despite being 1/3 of the population (by some estimates).    Maybe they have something to their bitching.  

Everyone has the right to bitch (for now). I just pointed out the 2 groups most annoying to me

[Huckleberry 32,859]

It's one group. Proselytizing jackasses.

When the atheists are sticking to the "keep your religion out of my face" argument they are more than tolerable, they're correct. But I do forgive them for going off the rails after that because the evangelists never actually do keep their religion out of their faces. 

[BevoAbyss 2,058]

11 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

The only people as annoying as proselytizing Christians are proselytizing atheists. 

Sawbonz, you are probably a nice guy and someone to have a drink with and talk about these topics. I know I have done that zillions of times. But with all due respect, this "both sides" claim is misguided. 

Sorry, but time's up for the apologia, the denialism, the enabling, the equalizing, etc. Time's up for #bothsides

On Negating the Difference Between Religion and Atheism

Religion depends on this. That's the attempt to negate the empirical differences between the evidence-free Sky God myth (that's faith) and the galaxies of evidence for Darwin, Hubble, and the sciences of evolutionary biology, genetics, astrophysics, cosmology, etc. Powered by incredible technologies (telescopes, microscopes, etc), all empirical evidence points unequivocally toward humans being one of millions of life forms that emerged and evolved on a tiny planet, orbiting a flaming ball of hydrogen, all in a vast, majestic, awe-inspiring, and expanding universe of two trillion galaxies stretching across 100 billion light years.

Every human (and life form) on this planet is made of elements born in exploding stars, an empirical fact discovered in 1957. And every human shares 99..5% of the same DNA. Those are empirical facts. That can only mean we are one species sharing one planet.

So far, the human species — in its curiosity and creativity — is the only species on our planet to figure this out about the surrounding universe and life on Earth. And most of the humans on Planet Earth remain in denial, unwittingly clinging to their primate origins which they deny exist!  The virulent hatreds and claims to supremacy seen in religion (and society at large) are from our primate origins!.

Faith is the total belief in God despite the absence of evidence. Atheism is the total absence of belief in any God. But that does not mean I believe in nothing. Science (along with art, philosophy) provides the foundation for a secular worldview grounded in evidence and our true origins in the universe. As for our destiny, that remains to be seen.....

If all humans would accept our evolutionary origins as a single species on a tiny planet, then maybe — just maybe — we could slowly start to get along, live peacefully, share the benefits of our creativity and compassion, and protect the ecosystems of Planet Earth, upon which all life depends. But that ain't happening anytime soon. One key reason is because religion is the fount of Alt-Fact Culture. 

About State-Imposed Atheism

Speaking for myself, I am not advocating state-imposed atheism. You are correct Sawbonz:  that will never work, as history has shown. Neither will state-imposed religion, which also happens to ignore the first line of the First Amendment, at least in America. But that fact is denied by MAGA-GQP and all the others in favor state-imposed religion. And state-imposed violent religion is coming to America, far and wide. #TenCommandments. 

TLDR: Don't conflate a secular worldview (informed by art, science, and secular philosophy) with the fact-free idiocy spewing from MAGA-GQP. 

 

[troph 24,788]

1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

couldn’t help yourself huh? Kind of like some of the JFK assassination conspiracy theorists I know.

Amazing how you guys leave out Soviet Russia, Maoist China, pol pot’s Cambodia etc when you pontificate about how great state run atheism would be. I’ve had this argument ad nauseum IRL as well as on this online community in its iterations going back to HF, so I’m not interested in getting into it in detail, but one statement has stuck with me when discussing the Soviet state sanctioned murder of thousands priests, bishops, and lay church members, and my friend’s response was that those deaths were necessary to save other lives and establish communism. No irony at all

 

and I would love to be able to stop religious zealots of all faiths from being able to impose their religions on the society at large. In fact, I believe if I could load up the 10% at the extreme on either side of the issue and shoot them into the sun,  the rest of us would get along reasonably well

 

Sawbonz counter point: humans are tribal and rally around leaders who enforce tribal boundaries and punish those who threaten the tribe. The ideology used  by such leaders may be political, religious, nationality, skin color, or another arbitrary basis for inclusion and exclusion. Religion happens to be one of the most powerful and successful in human history.  Only those that actively fight against tribalism with education and experience crossing tribal lines can overcome the innate human instinct to hate others. Fuck ou.

[Sawbonz 27,548]

3 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

Sawbonz, you are probably a nice guy and someone to have a drink with and talk about these topics. I know I have done that zillions of times. But with all due respect, this "both sides" claim is misguided. 

Sorry, but time's up for the apologia, the denialism, the enabling, the equalizing, etc. Time's up for #bothsides

On Negating the Difference Between Religion and Atheism

Religion depends on this. That's the attempt to negate the empirical differences between the evidence-free Sky God myth (that's faith) and the galaxies of evidence for Darwin, Hubble, and the sciences of evolutionary biology, genetics, astrophysics, cosmology, etc. Powered by incredible technologies (telescopes, microscopes, etc), all empirical evidence points unequivocally toward humans being one of millions of life forms that emerged and evolved on a tiny planet, orbiting a flaming ball of hydrogen, all in a vast, majestic, awe-inspiring, and expanding universe of two trillion galaxies stretching across 100 billion light years.

Every human (and life form) on this planet is made of elements born in exploding stars, an empirical fact discovered in 1957. And every human shares 99..5% of the same DNA. Those are empirical facts. That can only mean we are one species sharing one planet.

So far, the human species — in its curiosity and creativity — is the only species on our planet to figure this out about the surrounding universe and life on Earth. And most of the humans on Planet Earth remain in denial, unwittingly clinging to their primate origins which they deny exist!  The virulent hatreds and claims to supremacy seen in religion (and society at large) are from our primate origins!.

Faith is the total belief in God despite the absence of evidence. Atheism is the total absence of belief in any God. But that does not mean I believe in nothing. Science (along with art, philosophy) provides the foundation for a secular worldview grounded in evidence and our true origins in the universe. As for our destiny, that remains to be seen.....

If all humans would accept our evolutionary origins as a single species on a tiny planet, then maybe — just maybe — we could slowly start to get along, live peacefully, share the benefits of our creativity and compassion, and protect the ecosystems of Planet Earth, upon which all life depends. But that ain't happening anytime soon. One key reason is because religion is the fount of Alt-Fact Culture. 

About State-Imposed Atheism

Speaking for myself, I am not advocating state-imposed atheism. You are correct Sawbonz:  that will never work, as history has shown. Neither will state-imposed religion, which also happens to ignore the first line of the First Amendment, at least in America. But that fact is denied by MAGA-GQP and all the others in favor state-imposed religion. And state-imposed violent religion is coming to America, far and wide. #TenCommandments. 

TLDR: Don't conflate a secular worldview (informed by art, science, and secular philosophy) with the fact-free idiocy spewing from MAGA-GQP. 

 

 

Again I have no interest in debating theology or atheism here. I am not conflating anything. While you pay lip service to a secular worldview your other posts make it very clear if you were in charge you would suppress religion in general and Christianity specifically. I have pointed out how that goes. Your posts do not make you seem like the live and let live type. Maybe you are, but what you write here doesn’t back that up

 

and don’t try to twist this into some apology for the christofascists. I am adamantly opposed to them. But that doesn’t mean I can’t see through your bullshit as well

Just now, troph said:

Sawbonz counter point: humans are tribal and rally around leaders who enforce tribal boundaries and punish those who threaten the tribe. The ideology used  by such leaders may be political, religious, nationality, skin color, or another arbitrary basis for inclusion and exclusion. Religion happens to be one of the most powerful and successful in human history.  Only those that actively fight against tribalism with education and experience crossing tribal lines can overcome the innate human instinct to hate others. Fuck ou.

I don’t think this is a counterpoint. I agree with this completely 

[BevoAbyss 2,058]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

While you pay lip service to a secular worldview your other posts make it very clear if you were in charge you would suppress religion in general and Christianity specifically. I have pointed out how that goes. Your posts do not make you seem like the live and let live type. Maybe you are, but what you write here doesn’t back that up

Sorry, but you are conflating, while denying it. Conflating an evidence-and-logic-based critique of religion with the desire/willingness to suppress religion via the state. That's a non sequitur.  

Just because I embrace a scientific outlook and call out the fascist theocracy emerging right before our eyes, it does not follow that I advocate the state suppress religion or Christianity. I have never said or written that anywhere, here or elsewhere. Never. 

All I ask is the First Amendment be upheld, which mandates a separation of church and state. It's very simple. MAGA-GQP are ignoring that part of the First Amendment, while shoving their Ten Commandments down the throat of secular America — in the name of religious freedom and unscientific medieval idiocy (Re: overturning Roe). 

Your accusation is one that has long been popular in conservative and religious circles. It's the old Commie straw-man assertion — godless liberals and commies gonna take my Bible and AR-15. Lulz. 

You have not refuted anything I said, just hurled insults (the Keaton meme) and hackneyed accusations. This is my final reply to you. 

Adios. 

[Sawbonz 27,548]

2 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

Sorry, but you are conflating, while denying it. Conflating an evidence-and-logic-based critique of religion with the desire/willingness to suppress religion via the state. That's a non sequitur.  

Just because I embrace a scientific outlook and call out the fascist theocracy emerging right before our eyes, it does not follow that I advocate the state suppress religion or Christianity. I have never said or written that anywhere, here or elsewhere. Never. 

All I ask is the First Amendment be upheld, which mandates a separation of church and state. It's very simple. MAGA-GQP are ignoring that part of the First Amendment, while shoving their Ten Commandments down the throat of secular America — in the name of religious freedom and unscientific medieval idiocy (Re: overturning Roe). 

Your accusation is one that has long been popular in conservative and religious circles. It's the old Commie straw-man assertion — godless liberals and commies gonna take my Bible and AR-15. Lulz. 

You have not refuted anything I said, just hurled insults (the Keaton meme) and hackneyed accusations. This is my final reply to you. 

Adios. 

Just read your posts in other threads. You are unabashedly anti religion. That is not a straw man that is an observation. I would stand with you in a fight against advocates of state imposed religion. And as soon as the fight finished I would be worried about your trying to institute a state imposed ban. Adieu 

[nbmishoid 949]

15 hours ago, Satchel said:

While religion can be problematic, the real threat is fundamentalism of any kind, sacred or secular.

When has our society, or a like society, pursued secular fundamentalism (respect for truth) in a manner equivalent to that now underway for our new theocracy, or whatever one might label the 88th legislatures’ program?

[Sawbonz 27,548]

10 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

When has our society, or a like society, pursued secular fundamentalism (respect for truth) in a manner equivalent to that now underway for our new theocracy, or whatever one might label the 88th legislatures’ program?

I’m not sure “secular fundamentalism” per se exists, but if it does why would the definition be “respect for the truth?”

 

edit put another way can you have a fanatical zeal for “respecting the truth?” Most people really interested in finding the truth are fairly skeptical by nature. And skepticism seems at odds with fundamentalism 

 

2nd edit to clarify position

state imposed religion is dangerous and deadly and a realistic threat currently in our society

 

state imposed ban on religion is dangerous and deadly, and while not an immediate threat to us given the current societal climate, is a very real thing historically 

 

people who want to take every opportunity to tell you how great their religion is are super annoying 

 

people who want to take every opportunity to tell you how religion is fake and the main reason people kill rape and steal are super annoying 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Sawbonz

[nbmishoid 949]

Because the other options, religion as normally seen, communism, fascism, these are all built on lies.  I don’t know the name of a societal and political program based on truth.  A pipe dream?