Tell me about Iowa State

[Tex Long 4,401]

19 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

Betting on your own team absolutely destroys the integrity of the game.  You might behave differently...   

Uhhh... first it"absolutely" and then it's "might"? Make up your mind.

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

1 hour ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

All true, but if you pull a Pete Rose...you're out

For sure.  I have no sympathy for Dekkers.  But any college football fan that doesn't think the players on their team are betting on sports is an idiot.

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

1 hour ago, ClubWhatever said:

You think every program has players betting on their own team's games?  Wait, excuse me - sharing their account so their tech-idiot boomer parents can bet on their son's team's games.   Maybe so.   I'd hope any program with a compliance office that doesn't suck has been making the risks of this clear to players. 

No, I think every team has players betting.  ISU has other players who were caught betting - including key starters.  Dekkers was the only one betting on ISU games.

I know people who have witnessed compliance meetings.  This was communicated as clearly as possible, and the players chose their actions with full knowledge.

[Paul Wesley 3,278]

2 hours ago, Tex Long said:

Uhhh... first it"absolutely" and then it's "might"? Make up your mind.

When coaches and players bet on themselves, it creates situations where their betting interests MIGHT not align with competitive interests.  When you kick off or throw out the first pitch with that possibility, it ABSOLUTELY destroys the integrity of the game.  
 

Read it again.  It’s not the least bit contradictory.  

[trza-hawk 269]

Iowa has seen an erosion and ultimately a disappearance on all of the old taboos regarding gambling. The legalization of sports betting and endless apps to choose from on your phone is just light years away from decades past where it was all hush hush and guys would talk about gambling in weird codes where they wouldn't mention the spread or other prop bets but make references that only part of their audience would understand. When you tune into the local sports talk radio in Iowa, literally every local show is sponsored by a betting website. Many regular guests work for the bookmakers, the live events and even special rooms at different minor league teams have the bookmakers logo and sponsorship all over them. You can't escape the ads if you live in the state. The local opinionators fill up time just endlessly talking about point spreads and bad beats. The hosts know that the advertisers ultimately keep their jobs going, and they never ever mention the negative things that go along with sports betting.

 

 

[Beau Vine 54,254]

7 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

From everything I've heard, the staff's been extremely frustrated because they weren't getting much info from the DCI, and the players involved were lawyered up and not talking to the staff. 

That's a sign that they needed to be benched.  They have a right to lawyer up; they do not have the right to be an active member of the team.  

[Beau Vine 54,254]

4 hours ago, Tex Long said:

Uhhh... first it"absolutely" and then it's "might"? Make up your mind.

The "might" is what absolutely destroys the game.  

 

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

That's a sign that they needed to be benched.  They have a right to lawyer up; they do not have the right to be an active member of the team.  

Apparently only the criminally investigated ones have lawyers. There are going to be guys that don’t get charged who get short suspensions.

Dekkers is almost certainly done at ISU and probably in D1.

There’s so much uncertain info flying around it’s been hard to sort out

[Beau Vine 54,254]

2 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Dekkers is almost certainly done at ISU and probably in D1

I doubt he'll be eligible at D2 or D3, either.

Any NAIA programs in Iowa?

Or is it straight to the Iowa Barnstormers taxi squad?

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

24 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I doubt he'll be eligible at D2 or D3, either.

Any NAIA programs in Iowa?

Or is it straight to the Iowa Barnstormers taxi squad?

Buncha NAIA’s, and the best one is Morningside in Sioux City, close to his hometown.  My cousin played there and played with multiple disgraced ex Hawks and Clones

[Tex Long 4,401]

2 hours ago, Paul Wesley said:

When coaches and players bet on themselves, it creates situations where their betting interests MIGHT not align with competitive interests.  When you kick off or throw out the first pitch with that possibility, it ABSOLUTELY destroys the integrity of the game.  
 

Read it again.  It’s not the least bit contradictory.  

It absolutely is self-contradiction. You might not think so, but it is. 

[Tex Long 4,401]

38 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

The "might" is what absolutely destroys the game.  

 

It might not. That's absolutely certain.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,301]

I laugh at how the players are planning to plead "not guilty" to the charges. I'm going to assume they wise up once it becomes known that every wager they did is tied to their personal cell phone with time/date/location/etc.  They are done.

[Blotto 23,559]

8 hours ago, Uncle Nate said:

This reminds me of my big question back when the Pete Rose betting scandal hit:

"If he bets ON his team to win, how is that a problem?"

Maybe I missed it, but I never once saw any reports on HOW he betted (Pete Rose, that is).  To me, if a player, coach, administrator, whatever, bets ON the team to WIN, then I have no problem with it.  (Yes, I know, gambling slippery slope and getting in hoc with bad elements, yada yada yada).

I'm just saying that if a player is extra motivated to play even harder and smarter because he has money on the outcome of his team WINNING, then so be it.  No problem with it.  And this is coming from someone who is pretty damn conservative when it comes to this stuff.

The increasing tie-up between legal gambling operations and the various sports leagues was a mistake, but the sports leagues couldnt turn down the $$. I can think of a variety of reasons dealing with line movement alone that are problematic. The assumption has always been that the players are impartial participants to the line. 

If the player has $10 on the line, it probably wont have a material affect on the game, but $10,000 it might. But it has to be binary yes/no rather than wagers over a set amount. And lulz at Dekker throwing away his collegiate career on $8 bets. 

7 hours ago, Paul Wesley said:

Al, you’ve got to be fucking joking with “everyone does this.”   

I dont think Al meant every player, but rather every team has has players that will gamble on the team. And I 100% agree with him. Just like every team probably has a few guys that take PEDs, which arent legal either. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Blotto

[Paul Wesley 3,278]

7 hours ago, Tex Long said:

It absolutely is self-contradiction. You might not think so, but it is. 

Dude, you've responded to me three times on this page to call me out, and you're absolutely wrong.

The subject is betting on your own team.  So follow me here:  

"Integrity of the game" means that all the fans and spectators can reasonably believe that they're watching a fair contest where each contestant is acting in the best interests of the program/school/team.

Betting against yourself, or shaving points obviously makes the contest a sham.

But betting ON your own team also destroys the integrity of the game, because there are hundreds of scenarios where the gambler's interests MIGHT fall out of line with those of their team. 

- A baseball team is down three runs in the eighth inning, and the bullpen is thin.  In many situations, the team that is losing is better off saving certain pitcher(s) for tomorrow's game.  But if Pete Rose bet big money on THIS game, now he's motivated to squander those players on the small chance of a comeback even if it makes his team much more likely to lose tomorrow.  

- A football coach has the outcome of the game in hand, but he's up 17 in the fourth quarter and the spread was 21.  He's motivated by $ to keep valuable starters on the field to get one more meaningless score, even though the best interest of the team is to keep those guys healthy and available for the rest of the season.  

- A team has a meaningless game this weekend.  Regardless of the outcome, the conference title will be decided next week.  But the starting QB, who's been nursing a sore shoulder all season, has put a big bet on this week's game, and now he's motivated to misrepresent his health to the coaches in order to win the game that matters to HIM, even in a situation where it makes his teammates less likely to win the game that matters to everyone else.

College football has betting lines and injuries are a big part of the game.  These situations happen regularly.  If coaches and players are putting money on their own games - EVEN IF THEY BET ON THEMSELVES - then every single Saturday, we'd be watching contests where players MIGHT have an interest other than 1) win, 2) stay healthy, 3) consider big-picture goals such as conference championships, etc.  

That ABSOLUTELY destroys the integrity of the game.  Why?  Because when the ball is kicked off, no one - including administrators, coaches, teammates and fans - could know whether they're watching a contest where those conflicts of interest are in play.

Either you have no idea how gambling works or you don't understand what "integrity" means.

[Longboard Horn 40,333]

On 8/1/2023 at 7:55 PM, Blotto said:

Is this dude's head for real?

Ole block head ass. LOL his facial expression: he knows he's fucked and is hoping his cellmate won't ram him in the middle of the night. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

21 minutes ago, Longboard Horn said:

Ole block head ass. LOL his facial expression: he knows he's fucked and is hoping his cellmate won't ram him in the middle of the night. 

That's not his mug shot.  It's a head shot for the football program.

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

19 hours ago, Paul Wesley said:

Betting on your own team absolutely destroys the integrity of the game.  You might behave differently (use a pitcher who ought to be saved) if you’ve got a big $$$$ on *this* game. 
 

I understand that the argument isn’t as straightforward for a player betting on himself, but it’s a line that just can’t be crossed, and anyone who does it should lose eligibility.   
 

Al, you’ve got to be fucking joking with “everyone does this.”   

I'm talking about players gambling, not betting on your team.  There were 20 something athletes at ISU and 40 something at Iowa who got caught in this sting.  It looks like 3-4 out of ~60 were betting on their team.  There are very few people betting on their own games.  There are shitloads of people gambling in general.

If you think that there aren't a shit load of Texas players gambling on sports, you're fucking delusional.

[Paul Wesley 3,278]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

 

If you think that there aren't a shit load of Texas players gambling on sports, you're fucking delusional.

I definitely didn’t say that.  
 

I was reacting to you saying “everyone does it” in a thread about the starting quarterback betting on his own game.  
 

Yes, I’m sure tons of athletes gamble on sports. 
 

No, I don’t think a bunch of Power-5 starting quarterbacks were using their parents as shills to bet on their own games. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

1 minute ago, Paul Wesley said:

I definitely didn’t say that.  
 

I was reacting to you saying “everyone does it” in a thread about the starting quarterback betting on his own game.  
 

Yes, I’m sure tons of athletes gamble on sports. 
 

No, I don’t think a bunch of Power-5 starting quarterbacks were using their parents as shills to bet on their own games. 

Neither do I.  My comment was directed at athletes gambling, period.  I've pointed out, more than once in this thread, that Dekkers is a special breed of idiot.

[LTtxfan 49,247]

Josh Pate often admits he's a cyclone homer, is not happy to discuss gambling issue... 8min mark

 

 

[Tex Long 4,401]

On 8/3/2023 at 1:15 AM, Paul Wesley said:

Dude, you've responded to me three times on this page to call me out, and you're absolutely wrong.

Waitaminnit! Now, you're eschewing your original absolutely/might be schtick? 

[ztejas 43,475]

11 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

Waitaminnit! Now, you're eschewing your original absolutely/might be schtick? 

Good fucking God. What he said was crystal clear for anyone who knows what integrity means. If you tell your wife "hey I'm going out with the boys - I may or may not cheat on you tonight" you are 100% damaging the integrity of your marriage whether you cheat or not. 

[Tex Long 4,401]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Good fucking God. What he said was crystal clear for anyone who knows what integrity means. If you tell your wife "hey I'm going out with the boys - I may or may not cheat on you tonight" you are 100% damaging the integrity of your marriage whether you cheat or not. 

Absolutely. Might be.

[Frank Drebin 5,644]

ISU was in for another tough year regardless of Dekkers.

[LTtxfan 49,247]

Freshman QB JJ Kohl is a freakin' giraffe... 

He would be the TALLEST QB in the NFL right now 🤯 👀 🏈 #shorts

1 year ago

[LTtxfan 49,247]

Early scouting report for cyclone fans...   Thx for finding tweet  @GhostofDanJones

 

[USNALonghorn 5,078]

8 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Early scouting report for cyclone fans...   Thx for finding tweet  @GhostofDanJones

 

 

[ultimaton 2,981]

oopsie

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

I knew all of these guys were involved.  I was stunned that Lee bet AGAINST ISU.  He had been an absolute model citizen.  He was raising his 12 year old sister in his collegiate apartment because his parents were shit-asses

[Elmer_Fudd 22,281]

40 minutes ago, ultimaton said:

oopsie

Ourlads.com has him listed as the starting NT for them this year.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,550]

Nothing says five star culture like betting against your own team. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Mitch Cumsteen

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

I’d take a leg bullet for Breece Hall, but fuck he never should have said that out loud

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

That said, this is happening a lot of places that don’t have a state law enforcement agency with an axe to grind

[LTtxfan 49,247]

16 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

That said, this is happening a lot of places that don’t have a state law enforcement agency with an axe to grind

Yeah... it's part of social media now.  So easy to place bets thru apps on your cellphone.  And they constantly send you daily offers to bet on events multiple times a day.

I'm sure some of these players had no idea how many bets they had made... especially if they were making a lot of small bets like $5 and $10

[GhostOfTomJoad 9,331]

4 more ISU and 3 Iowa players so far

 

Quote

 The group includes Iowa State starting running back Jirehl Brock and three teammates with starting experience -- offensive tackle Jake Remsburg, defensive tackle Isaiah Lee and tight end DeShawn Hanika.

 

Iowa wide receiver Jack Johnson was also charged, as were former Iowa players Arland Bruce IV and Reggie Bracy, who transferred to Oklahoma State and Troy, respectively. Iowa student manager Owen O'Brien was charged as well.

All four ISU athletes charged on Thursday have not been practicing. Oklahoma State said Bruce has been practicing with the team this month. Iowa had no comment on Johnson other than to say it continues to cooperate with the investigation.

 

[lilMAC25 3,795]

Did ISU players throw the game against Texas?

 

 

[Huckleberry 32,997]

12 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I knew all of these guys were involved.  I was stunned that Lee bet AGAINST ISU.  He had been an absolute model citizen.  He was raising his 12 year old sister in his collegiate apartment because his parents were shit-asses

So he's a young man who needs money and who had no good parenting to fall back on. Nobody who would have taught him that gambling is a way to lose money and you don't bet money you're not willing to lose. Sounds like a prime candidate to do this.

It absolutely should be against the rules and immediate banishment from any sports league if caught. But if your description of his situation is accurate I don't think this makes him a bad guy at all. Just desperate, naïve, or both. 

As for Breece Hall's comment, it was stupid whether out loud or not. Humans like to ascribe higher moral values to themselves when it's usually something more boring like just being better players. He was a dumbass and the Cyclones were a good team because their roster was better than people realized. Not because they were better people with a better culture.

[markstanco 12,577]

@Al_4_ISU I was taking kids to school this morning and they were discussing of course the betting thing, but they also mentioned a lot of key players are done for the season injury-wise.  It was loud so I didnt catch all of it.  Which position? 

[Royale with cheese 1,467]

On 8/3/2023 at 7:46 AM, Al_4_ISU said:

That's not his mug shot.  It's a head shot for the football program.

Same thing.

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

So he's a young man who needs money and who had no good parenting to fall back on. Nobody who would have taught him that gambling is a way to lose money and you don't bet money you're not willing to lose. Sounds like a prime candidate to do this.

It absolutely should be against the rules and immediate banishment from any sports league if caught. But if your description of his situation is accurate I don't think this makes him a bad guy at all. Just desperate, naïve, or both. 

As for Breece Hall's comment, it was stupid whether out loud or not. Humans like to ascribe higher moral values to themselves when it's usually something more boring like just being better players. He was a dumbass and the Cyclones were a good team because their roster was better than people realized. Not because they were better people with a better culture.

That particular squad did have a really tight bond, with strong leadership.  It was an undeniable part of their success. Texas for years has had an obviously shitty internal culture.  We all remember the video that leaked after the last visit to Ames.  It’s really the only explanation for why they’ve been so mediocre with exceptional talent.

But you’re right in that none of this makes any place or people intrinsically better.  It’s clear that whatever the Purdy and Hall squads had was not adopted by the guys who came after them who heard those quotes and thought they were more hard nosed than other kids just because they wore that jersey.

On that day in 2020, Hall was right.  But it’s a great example of why you never run your mouth.  You lose touch of what got you where you were, you start smelling your own farts, and you lose your advantage.  Without the culture ISU had a few years ago, we’re a bunch of 2-3 star players with no advantage on any front.  And you go 4-8 with a bunch of your supposed leaders getting kicked out for gambling.

[Deej 76,830]

On 8/2/2023 at 12:36 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

For sure.  I have no sympathy for Dekkers.  But any college football fan that doesn't think the players on their team are betting on sports is an idiot.

Ah...the old "point the finger and say everyone else is doing it" gag.  

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

14 minutes ago, markstanco said:

@Al_4_ISU I was taking kids to school this morning and they were discussing of course the betting thing, but they also mentioned a lot of key players are done for the season injury-wise.  It was loud so I didnt catch all of it.  Which position? 

There are no serious injuries being whispered about from what I can tell.

2 of the suspended gamblers (Remsburg and Brock) have constantly battled injuries and were rumored to not be back to health, even if eligible to play.

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

Just now, Deej said:

Ah...the old "point the finger and say everyone else is doing it" gag.  

It’s only ridiculous if it’s wrong.

I have zero issue with these guys getting suspended.  What they did is against the rules, and they were abundantly aware of that.

But the piety oozing from folks like you is silly.  College football players in every program in the country are gambling.  There’s probably a guy or two in most locker rooms betting on their squads.  The difference is their State government isn’t investigating them.

[Deej 76,830]

Whatever you have to do to make you feel better about the illegal activities of your players. 

Just own the fact your coach and program have a bad culture. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

[Al_4_ISU 12,464]

The culture definitely regressed. I won’t agree that it’s objectively bad today. We’ll see what this squad is.

[Tex Long 4,401]

Iowa peeping toms are not guilty unless the peepee is "partially nude" and the peeper is aroused. I am not aroused by bettors, clothed or naked, and I believe that a plethysmograph will bear me out.

[Huckleberry 32,997]

21 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

That particular squad did have a really tight bond, with strong leadership.  It was an undeniable part of their success. Texas for years has had an obviously shitty internal culture.  We all remember the video that leaked after the last visit to Ames.  It’s really the only explanation for why they’ve been so mediocre with exceptional talent.

But you’re right in that none of this makes any place or people intrinsically better.  It’s clear that whatever the Purdy and Hall squads had was not adopted by the guys who came after them who heard those quotes and thought they were more hard nosed than other kids just because they wore that jersey.

On that day in 2020, Hall was right.  But it’s a great example of why you never run your mouth.  You lose touch of what got you where you were, you start smelling your own farts, and you lose your advantage.  Without the culture ISU had a few years ago, we’re a bunch of 2-3 star players with no advantage on any front.  And you go 4-8 with a bunch of your supposed leaders getting kicked out for gambling.

No, he was wrong. Winning creates a good culture much much more than vice versa. Same for losing and bad culture. When teams have success their players and fans love to think it's because they're great people with a great culture. 

So weird how the culture in Ames got worse as soon as their starting NFL QB and RB left town. What a coincidence.

Every single preseason beat writers for every single program talk about what great chemistry the team is developing and how leaders are stepping up and the coaches have really instilled the culture they want blah, blah, blah. Those stories continue all season for the teams that win and stop for the teams that lose. It's all standard sports fairy tale stuff.

This is not to say that individual shitheads and leaders don't exist. But winning cures all and losing exposes the problems. Every team has good guys and punks. 

[ABSR 5,315]

On 8/2/2023 at 5:18 PM, Tex Long said:

It absolutely is self-contradiction. You might not think so, but it is. 

No, he is correct.  It doesn't matter if they do or don't adjust their thoughts or actions (although almost impossible to not do so subconsciously).  It is the idea that they could do something that absolutely undermines the game. 

They might or might not do something, but the idea that they could for reasons tied to betting, absolutely undermines the game.

People will always say "I did not act any differently!"   But lets say a coach bets on his own team to cover an 8 point spread (needs a 9+ point victory).  4th quarter and fourth down with the team driving to the other teams 15.  4th and 2 and winning by 5.   Coach goes for it and later explains he wanted to ensure the win.   Doesn't matter what happens, but this and every other decision he made in the game can be questioned.