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Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 12:21 AM, uoftorange said:
Brock had a clean box out, then the guy jumped over him, not straight up (that's laughable), and basically pulled the chair out from under brock. 



I am pretty certain this is correct. Notice where Brock ends up.

When you play physical, blocking out that physical guy requires more effort. Once he disengages Brock loses his balance. After 15 gave ground he then decides to jump.
Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 1:21 AM, chemHORN said:

8 fouls called in the first half.  29 called in the 2nd half.  Either they switched crews at halftime or the NCAA memo was received.  

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2 NCAA tournaments in a row where the refs took over our game and paraded the opponent to a FT line win.

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Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 1:50 AM, Slacks said:

So... For fuck's sake... Let's just not see it and it's not a foul. Like little kids and object permanence.

He didn't intentionally foul, but that doesn't make it not a foul. ust because he can't see what's happening, doesn't make it not a foul.

sometimes, hustling like you're supposed to results in a foul. It did.

 

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It wasn't a foul on Brock.  they actually called it correctly first and the Miami player knew it.

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 2:27 AM, dcar00 said:

It wasn't a foul on Brock.  they actually called it correctly first and the Miami player knew it.

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He "knew" it because they called it on him.

Look, it's kinda ticky tack, but it was right. Just because one ref called it out way doesn't mean it's that way.

When I was watching, and the whistle blew, I thought it was against Cunningham on the clear out undercut, and I was pleasantly surprised it was on Omier.

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Posted

When you are blocking out, like Brock had been doing since they were under the basket, and you don't feel the player any more you back up until you make contact again to make sure you re-establish the block out.  You don't stop.  Brock did what he was supposed to do.  It was a bad call and it probably cost the game.  

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Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 12:12 AM, Surly Bevo said:

He's backing up before he jumps

 

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That is a foul on Cunningham. He doesn't even play the ball. He just keeps backiing into Omier.

Cunningham had Omier boxed out perfectly... We were going to have the rebound, but Cunningham kept moving/falling backward. 

this is not the play that lost the game. this is a hustle play home awry.

 

 

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:11 AM, Monahorns said:

When you are blocking out, like Brock had been doing since they were under the basket, and you don't feel the player any more you back up until you make contact again to make sure you re-establish the block out.  You don't stop.  Brock did what he was supposed to do.  It was a bad call and it probably cost the game.  

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He did what he was supposed to do... And created a foul. The call was right. Brock didn't fail to do his job. It just had a negative result. 

Shit like this happens in every game. A really good hustle play results in a foul.

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:13 AM, Monahorns said:

How can you tell someone hasn't played any basketball, or at least well, without them saying it.

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Because they think it's ok to back over or under a defender, moving 5 ft from original position, in the name of boxing out, and it's 'over the back'?

You do not get to be a pulling guard to box out.

  On 3/27/2023 at 3:11 AM, Monahorns said:

When you are blocking out, like Brock had been doing since they were under the basket, and you don't feel the player any more you back up until you make contact again to make sure you re-establish the block out.  You don't stop.  Brock did what he was supposed to do.  It was a bad call and it probably cost the game.  

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When do you stop?

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:16 AM, Slacks said:

Because they think it's ok to back over or under a defender, moving 5 ft from original position, in the name of boxing out, and it's 'over the back'?

You do not get to be a pulling guard to box out.

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Yes you do. 
 

mitchell probably has 4 “over the back” foul calls in this tournament that were way less over the back than the Miami player on this play. 

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:16 AM, Slacks said:

When do you stop?

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When you re-establish contact, which Brock did.  He didn't feel contact until the guy falls on his back basically.  It was a bad call.  Probably should have been a no-call.  Definitely should not have been an overturned call.  But when refs are busy tilting a game unashamedly they are busy tilting a game unashamedly.

Posted (edited)
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:19 AM, Firemans4Horn said:


Yes you do. 
 

mitchell probably has 4 “over the back” foul calls in this tournament that were way less over the back than the Miami player on this play. 

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Cunningham started under the basket and landed outside the 3pt line. A person shooting a free throw would have ended up on his back.

Edited by Slacks
Swypo
Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:24 AM, Monahorns said:

 

When you re-establish contact, which Brock did.  He didn't feel contact until the guy falls on his back basically.  It was a bad call.  Probably should have been a no-call.  Definitely should not have been an overturned call.  But when refs are busy tilting a game unashamedly they are busy tilting a game unashamedly.

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We agree on when the movement should stop.

Now watch the video again. 

Look where they are when they 're-establish contact' and tell me when Cunningham's feet stop moving... Cunningham walks himself from inside the restricted area and ends up falling backward onto the 3pt line. 

Posted

Every tournament team that makes it far has elite guard play.  Once Carr and Rice got dinged up, it was going to be hard to overcome the shift in momentum.  Those two carried this team quite a bit during the season when we needed people to score.  In those last 10 minutes, they looked gassed and gimpy.  
 

This was the most fun I’ve had watching Texas bball in 15 years.  Props to players and the coaching staff considering what they has to overcome.

Let’s keep building this thing and make a run next year.

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Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:28 AM, Slacks said:

We agree on when the movement should stop.

Now watch the video again. 

Look where they are when they 're-establish contact' and tell me when Cunningham's feet stop moving... Cunningham walks himself from inside the restricted area and ends up falling backward onto the 3pt line. 

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I watched it over and over again.  Brock didn't foul the guy.  Omire kept giving ground and then jump over Brock's back.  Brock kept moving back to keep contact.   It was a bad call.  You don't have to simp for refs when your team gets hosed.

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Posted

Rule 4 - Section 30 . Article 2

To establish or maintain legal rebounding position, a player shall not:

b. Extend either or both arms or elbows, fully or partially, in a position other than vertical so that the freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered when contact with any of these body parts occurs.

  Reveal hidden contents
  Reveal hidden contents

d. Violate the principle of verticality (a player is entitled to his/her space that is occupied, plus all vertical space above that player).

  Reveal hidden contents
 

Omier committed a foul in two different ways before Cunningham could commit a foul. The first action occurred when Omier pushed Cunningham into the restricted area. Not only was his second action a foul despite endangering himself more than Cunningham, but he endangered himself because it was a foul. If he had merely jumped vertically in his own vertical space rather than into Cunningham's vertical space, he would have fallen more safely, if at all. This seems like a clear example of refs misapplying the rules because they don't want to catch heat for calling a foul on the player who is more endangered, even if he put himself in that danger. To those arguing, "the refs always call it this way", then they're always calling it wrong. Also, read some David Hume.

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Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:13 AM, Slacks said:

He did what he was supposed to do... And created a foul. The call was right. Brock didn't fail to do his job. It just had a negative result. 

Shit like this happens in every game. A really good hustle play results in a foul.

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How do you foul with your back bro? That either over the back or no call

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:34 AM, Monahorns said:

 

I watched it over and over again.  Brock didn't foul the guy.  Omire kept giving ground and then jump over Brock's back.  Brock kept moving back to keep contact.   It was a bad call.  You don't have to simp for refs when your team gets hosed.

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I'm really just on about this one play and our play (dead legs late).

I try not to bitch about refs, even when I see them fucking up.

Make a few more shots and the refs can't steal. Play a little bit better defense in the lane and the refs can't steal.

We played great until 8 minutes.

It's over now. Next season starts soon.

 

 

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:34 AM, Monahorns said:

 

I watched it over and over again.  Brock didn't foul the guy.  Omire kept giving ground and then jump over Brock's back.  Brock kept moving back to keep contact.   It was a bad call.  You don't have to simp for refs when your team gets hosed.

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That’s where Brock fucked up. You can’t do that.

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Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:38 AM, A’Dam Psycho said:

How do you foul with your back bro? That either over the back or no call

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What?!

Is your argument, "yeah, he did all that, but with his back instead of his front."

So you can just run at a guy, spin around, jump into him with your back and it's a no call or 'over the back' against the other guy?

Where in the book does it say, "except when not facing the opposing player?"

Don't let being disappointed make you irrational and unable to think clearly.

 

I have no idea why I'm going in on this....

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:46 AM, Slacks said:

I'm really just on about this one play and our play (dead legs late).

I try not to bitch about refs, even when I see them fucking up.

Make a few more shots and the refs can't steal. Play a little bit better defense in the lane and the refs can't steal.

We played great until 8 minutes.

It's over now. Next season starts soon.

Expand  

 

I agree on that.  Texas seemed to lack energy down the stretch.  Defense got some bad calls but also wasn't as tenacious as before.  On offense, they lost composure with several turnovers, didn't run the offense, and poor shot selection.

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Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:05 AM, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

so i made this gif, maybe we can tell what happened

a__02___02__AdobeExpress_AdobeExpress.gif.cb3be681f1ec9ea5971df4531d0fd529.gif

 

if brock had just stood his ground instead of backing 6-7 steps on the dude, Texas would get the call.

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If he stood his ground the ball would have gone over his head. He was in position and the guy falling over him caused him to stumble back more 

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Posted

Idk, maybe I’m an idiot but what I’m seeing

Shot goes up

Brock turns to face basket

Miami player pushes Brock in the back to create space and then jumps after creating space

Brock then backs up to reestablish contact not knowing at this point that Miami player is airborne

Miami player who is airborne falls on top on Brock. 
 

this very much seems like a no call to me but whatever 

 

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Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:38 AM, TotallyLegit said:

Rule 4 - Section 30 . Article 2

To establish or maintain legal rebounding position, a player shall not:

b. Extend either or both arms or elbows, fully or partially, in a position other than vertical so that the freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered when contact with any of these body parts occurs.

  Reveal hidden contents
  Reveal hidden contents

d. Violate the principle of verticality (a player is entitled to his/her space that is occupied, plus all vertical space above that player).

  Reveal hidden contents
 

Omier committed a foul in two different ways before Cunningham could commit a foul. The first action occurred when Omier pushed Cunningham into the restricted area. Not only was his second action a foul despite endangering himself more than Cunningham, but he endangered himself because it was a foul. If he had merely jumped vertically in his own vertical space rather than into Cunningham's vertical space, he would have fallen more safely, if at all. This seems like a clear example of refs misapplying the rules because they don't want to catch heat for calling a foul on the player who is more endangered, even if he put himself in that danger. To those arguing, "the refs always call it this way", then they're always calling it wrong. Also, read some David Hume.

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First picture is absolutely a foul on Omier. Unfortunately, it never gets called unless the inside guy falls forward (or flops).

That isn't the foul that was called and that's not the foul anyone is completing about on this thread. 

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:52 AM, TexasGolf said:

If he stood his ground the ball would have gone over his head. He was in position and the guy falling over him caused him to stumble back more 

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brock should have stopped backing up at the point where the ball would have landed on the ground, but he kept going 3-5 extra steps which produced bad optics and the Undercut , the refs had to protect the safety of the miami guy.  Had brock just stayed at step 2-3 and not done steps 4-8, we win the game. 

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Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:56 AM, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

brock should have stopped backing up at the point where the ball would have landed on the ground, but he kept going 3-5 extra steps which produced bad optics and the Undercut , the refs had to protect the safety of the miami guy.  Had brock just stayed at step 2-3 and not done steps 4-8, we win the game. 

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The ball was going that direction.  I would agree if the ball was going straight down but it wasn’t 

Posted

Screenshot 2023-03-26 at 8.17.24 PM.png

 

this is the exact point where brock should have stopped backing up. Omir would not have the ball as he mistimed the jump too early and the ball would have just fallen into brocks hands.  But brock was the energizer bunny and kept going and going , foolish mistake. 

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Posted (edited)
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:52 AM, TexasGolf said:

If he stood his ground the ball would have gone over his head. He was in position and the guy falling over him caused him to stumble back more 

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1. The ball fell several feet in front of him. (Not relevant, though.)

 2. You acknowledge he didn't stand his ground and is moving backwards. That's where the foul occurs.

 

Edited by Slacks
I suck
Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:52 AM, Slacks said:

What?!

Is your argument, "yeah, he did all that, but with his back instead of his front."

So you can just run at a guy, spin around, jump into him with your back and it's a no call or 'over the back' against the other guy?

Where in the book does it say, "except when not facing the opposing player?"

Don't let being disappointed make you irrational and unable to think clearly.

 

I have no idea why I'm going in on this....

Expand  

So riddle me this. If I’m a player and I’m just randomly backing up somewhere on the court away from the play and the opponent decides to run behind me and just jump and he crashes to the floor, that’s a foul on me right? According to your logic

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:56 AM, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

brock should have stopped backing up at the point where the ball would have landed on the ground, but he kept going 3-5 extra steps which produced bad optics and the Undercut , the refs had to protect the safety of the miami guy.  Had brock just stayed at step 2-3 and not done steps 4-8, we win the game. 

Expand  

 

Or you know the miami guy could protect his own safety by not jumping into Brock.  But I get it Texas boards have to side with what Miami players want.

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:54 AM, A’Dam Psycho said:

Idk, maybe I’m an idiot but what I’m seeing

Shot goes up

Brock turns to face basket

Miami player pushes Brock in the back to create space and then jumps after creating space

Brock then backs up to reestablish contact not knowing at this point that Miami player is airborne

Miami player who is airborne falls on top on Brock. 
 

this very much seems like a no call to me but whatever 

 

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The first push is a foul.

Brock's foul is a foul... It's unlucky payoff for hustle, but a foul.

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 4:01 AM, A’Dam Psycho said:

So riddle me this. If I’m a player and I’m just randomly backing up somewhere on the court away from the play and the opponent decides to run behind me and just jump and he crashes to the floor, that’s a foul on me right? According to your logic

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Correct.  One player doesn't have to care about safety.  He can play as recklessly as possible.  But everyone else has to make sure the reckless player is safe.  Every rule has to be bent to one team getting 27 free throws in one half.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted (edited)
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:05 AM, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

so i made this gif, maybe we can tell what happened

a__02___02__AdobeExpress_AdobeExpress.gif.cb3be681f1ec9ea5971df4531d0fd529.gif

 

if brock had just stood his ground instead of backing 6-7 steps on the dude, Texas would get the call.

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This. He finds a way to foul when there is absolutely no reason to do it. One or two steps would probably have been ok but he was intentionally trying to take the Miami player out instead of going for the rebound. I have seen him do this in other games too. When he has an opportunity to grab the rebound, he keeps pushing the other team's player back.

Edited by UTEE97
  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 4:00 AM, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

Screenshot 2023-03-26 at 8.17.24 PM.png

 

this is the exact point where brock should have stopped backing up. Omir would not have the ball as he mistimed the jump too early and the ball would have just fallen into brocks hands.  But brock was the energizer bunny and kept going and going , foolish mistake. 

Expand  

Why the ball is still going out as it drops 

do you see how him riding his back caused him to stumble back more 

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 4:01 AM, A’Dam Psycho said:

So riddle me this. If I’m a player and I’m just randomly backing up somewhere on the court away from the play and the opponent decides to run behind me and just jump and he crashes to the floor, that’s a foul on me right? According to your logic

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Depends. Did the player establish a position or did he run into you?

But I was using YOUR logic that a back can't cause a foul. I wouldn't have said that craziness in the first place.

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 3:06 AM, Slacks said:

He "knew" it because they called it on him.

Look, it's kinda ticky tack, but it was right. Just because one ref called it out way doesn't mean it's that way.

When I was watching, and the whistle blew, I thought it was against Cunningham on the clear out undercut, and I was pleasantly surprised it was on Omier.

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Yep this argument that "even the Miami player thought he fouled out" is nothing. He thought he fouled out because he was looking directly at the ref who called it on him originally, not because he thought he committed a foul. 

Posted
  On 3/27/2023 at 4:06 AM, Monahorns said:

Correct.  One player doesn't have to care about safety.  He can play as recklessly as possible.  But everyone else has to make sure the reckless player is safe.  Every rule has to be bent to one team getting 27 free throws in one half.

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Wtf does thinking about safety have to do with this play?!

 

Why am I here?

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