Texas vs Miami- Elite 8- 4:05pm on CBS

[Monahorns 39]

1 minute ago, Slacks said:

Wtf does thinking about safety have to do with this play?!

 

Why am I here?

 

I was commenting on someone using player safety as the reason to call Brock for the foul.  If safety isn't an issue then you don't have a point anyway.  But what does safety have to do with anything?  You're whole point.

[UTHornFan014 755]

2 hours ago, gofuckyourself said:

I'm in the same boat.

Particularly the way the game was officiated. First half and maybe a handful of minutes of the second half were "let them play" but then the refs shoved themselves into the second half and the last few minutes especially.

And what it did was disrupt Texas' flow and rhythm and let Miami score all they needed from the line. Good on them for making their free throws, I guess.

 

This is what pissed me off more than anything. The refs completely changed how they were calling the game compares to the first half and it ruined the flow/tempo that was working for us.

[Slacks 7086]

1 minute ago, Monahorns said:

 

I was commenting on someone using player safety as the reason to call Brock for the foul.  If safety isn't an issue then you don't have a point anyway.  But what does safety have to do with anything?  You're whole point.

Not my point at all.

My point was Brock never stopped moving his feet, so he never established position... As such he kept moving into a player who established a position vertically (via jump).

It happened. It's over. F it.

Proud of the run and the effort.

 

[Had Enough 2126]

The first push is a foul.
Brock's foul is a foul... It's unlucky payoff for hustle, but a foul.

It’s apparent why the foul was called on Brock, but that first push is a reason for the harder block out. A guy extends his arm to push you under the basket - what is your reaction? To push back harder?

Then there absolutely is an argument that the Miami dude earned a foul call before Cunningham kept pushing back.

[Monahorns 39]

6 minutes ago, Slacks said:

Not my point at all.

My point was Brock never stopped moving his feet, so he never established position... As such he kept moving into a player who established a position vertically (via jump).

It happened. It's over. F it.

Proud of the run and the effort.

 

So now your whole point is Brock kept moving his feet?  Jeez.  But the guy who kept backing up and jumped established position?  Your point is getting worse actually.

[A’Dam Psycho 1499]

2 minutes ago, Slacks said:

Not my point at all.

My point was Brock never stopped moving his feet, so he never established position... As such he kept moving into a player who established a position vertically (via jump).

It happened. It's over. F it.

Proud of the run and the effort.

 

I’m confused as to what you believe Brock is supposed to do. Stand there and possibly let the guy go around him and grab the rebound? The entire point of boxing out is to initiate contact and establish position. Dude was already airborne when Brock made contact. That’s either a no call (Miami guy jumped straight up) or over the back (Miami player jumped forward through contact). Whatever though games shouldn’t be decided by shit like this

[Slacks 7086]

5 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

It’s apparent why the foul was called on Brock, but that first push is a reason for the harder block out. A guy extends his arm to push you under the basket - what is your reaction? To push back harder?

Then there absolutely is an argument that the Miami dude earned a foul call before Cunningham kept pushing back.

100% that was a push on Omier first.

If every uncalled foul resulted in a counter reaction, we'd be watching MMA.

 

[Had Enough 2126]

And I realize he left the ground already but that’s far from vertical. The still shot doesn’t tell the story but that’s a foul on Miami right there. The question is did Cunningham earn the foul prior to that.

[JGrayDBU 377]

I just came back from 2 hours of pickle ball.  I told a friend about the game, etc. and that I needed to vent some frustration.  He asked after the 2 hours if I got it out of my system.  "I can do about two more hours tomorrow" was my answer. 

I hit some of the hardest balls ever, and nailed one no-look hit.  Beat a young man who has really improved, he is in his late 20s.  

I still feel like we're never going to get the Big 12 out of our system.  Groover and Valentine, so those are the two names.  I'm sure Valentine has retired by now.  Looking forward to Groover retiring.  

 

[Slacks 7086]

2 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

 initiate contact and establish position. 

If he ever stops moving his feet everything else you said is correct.

His feet never stop moving him backward into the Miami player who then jumps up.

Brock never established position. He hunted for the body to box without know where that body was (according to this thread).

Omier could have just run around Cunningham, because Cunningham wasn't playing the ball. He was just walking backward.

Box out = feel contact. Establish (plant feet) a position. Hold ground. Get an 'over the back' (push) call.

The opposition has every right to jump up for the rebound, even if he is behind you.

You do not have the right to walk back under him while he is airborne.

[Slacks 7086]

6 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

And I realize he left the ground already but that’s far from vertical. The still shot doesn’t tell the story but that’s a foul on Miami right there. The question is did Cunningham earn the foul prior to that.

It looks like a foul on miami because it's a still photo. Cunningham was walking backwards from the restricted area to go to that point.

[Slacks 7086]

12 minutes ago, Monahorns said:

 

So now your whole point is Brock kept moving his feet?  Jeez.  But the guy who kept backing up and jumped established position?  Your point is getting worse actually.

Are you debating Brock kept moving or no? Do you disagree with the video evidence?

Once Miami jumps up,, he has established a vertical position. Per the rulebook.

Brock should have fucking jumped and gotten a rebound and a likely foul on Miami.

What are you claiming / asking / debating here?

 

 

[Had Enough 2126]

100% that was a push on Omier first.
If every uncalled foul resulted in a counter reaction, we'd be watching MMA.
 

Well sure. I didn’t watch all the game, but from what I saw 15 was allowed to play without fear of getting called hence him feeling he could push on the rebound. Brock is a bit over aggressive, but there are points in games when they get out of control. That is often because of counter reactions.

The significance of the call as well was not only points but Miami being without their most aggressive presence.

[Slacks 7086]

1 minute ago, Had Enough said:

Well sure. I didn’t watch all the game, but from what I saw 15 was allowed to play without fear of getting called hence him feeling he could push on the rebound. Brock is a bit over aggressive, but there are points in games when they get out of control. That is often because of counter reactions.

The significance of the call as well was not only points but Miami being without their most aggressive presence.

Guys push on the rebound on every rebound. It's a foul that only get called when someone goes flying or if the arm is fully extended and it's obvious, at almost every level.

 

[Monahorns 39]

3 minutes ago, Slacks said:

Are you debating Brock kept moving or no? Do you disagree with the video evidence?

Once Miami jumps up,, he has established a vertical position. Per the rulebook.

Brock should have fucking jumped and gotten a rebound and a likely foul on Miami.

What are you claiming / asking / debating here?

Miami jumped over Brock's back even if Brock doesn't move back any more.  That isn't establishing position.  He fouled Brock just like he fouled Carr on the other end of the floor.  But the refs were busy unashamedly turning the game one direction.  Nothing else matterered.

[Monahorns 39]

4 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

We needed to slow this game down and make it more of a grind once we had our second half lead instead of letting it continue to be up and down.  Playing a game in the 80s wasn’t what we were supposed to be this year, but it is what Miami wants.

That is what Beard does.  Let's be honest with him in the chair Texas is Final 4.

[JGrayDBU 377]

20 + years from now, I wonder how this game will be remembered?  Will it be the B12 officials dump all over Texas game, or will it be the perfect game for the first time in 31 years game?(Christian Laetner, 1992)  It is so hard to imagine now, but I am hopeful we can remember this as the perfect game for Miller, and even with that the score was tied with 1:02 to go.  

It literally took a perfect game to beat us.   

I also predict no one will remember the 'Canes past this game because I expect them to hit about 38% of their shots in the next game and get beat by about 22.  I also predict they will shoot about half the free throws they shot tonight.   I give them 16 attempts.  

[Slacks 7086]

1 minute ago, longhornmatt said:

I agree the officiating got screwy in the 2nd half and Miami benefited from the suddenly tight way the game was called (32 FT attempts?  Come on).  But the flow/tempo was a problem all along for us.  We were scoring by making a lot of threes.  They were shooting 60% the whole game because it was up and down and they were getting into the paint at will.  It was a matter of time until our shooting regressed to the mean.  They had no regression to the mean because the mean is a high percentage when you’re shooting right at the rim against a team with a small frontcourt.

We needed to slow this game down and make it more of a grind once we had our second half lead instead of letting it continue to be up and down.  Playing a game in the 80s wasn’t what we were supposed to be this year, but it is what Miami wants.

 

Yes. We had monster 1H offensively that pointed to a 90pt game. We had a defensive game that kept Miami from making 3s, but they were eating in there paint.

We were good until Carr got the thigh bruise. I don't even remember Rice's injury, but noticed it around 8 mins to go... Which is when the meltdown began. 

We needed a timeout, but we'd played through our bad stretches before tonight. Tonight just didn't happen.

 

[A’Dam Psycho 1499]

2 minutes ago, JGrayDBU said:

20 + years from now, I wonder how this game will be remembered?  Will it be the B12 officials dump all over Texas game, or will it be the perfect game for the first time in 31 years game?(Christian Laetner, 1992)  It is so hard to imagine now, but I am hopeful we can remember this as the perfect game for Miller, and even with that the score was tied with 1:02 to go.  

It literally took a perfect game to beat us.   

I also predict no one will remember the 'Canes past this game because I expect them to hit about 38% of their shots in the next game and get beat by about 22.  I also predict they will shoot about half the free throws they shot tonight.   I give them 16 attempts.  

Miami will not shoot more than 10 fts against UConn. I’ll wager money on that

[Slacks 7086]

10 minutes ago, Monahorns said:

Miami jumped over Brock's back even if Brock doesn't move back any more.  

However, that's not what happened.

What *actually* happened?

Brock did move back more. Much more. He moved into Miami in the air. Watch the video and describe it to yourself out loud as it happens. Don't say what you think would have happened if the sky was green. Describe each move.

I should be in bed.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Slacks
F this keyboard

[Slacks 7086]

5 minutes ago, Monahorns said:

That is what Beard does.  Let's be honest with him in the chair Texas is Final 4.

What Beard does is get fired for putting his hands on a woman. Let that shit go. 

[Monahorns 39]

6 minutes ago, Slacks said:

I should be in bed.

 

Then go to bed.  At least you will quit being wrong.

5 minutes ago, Slacks said:

What Beard does is get fired for putting his hands on a woman. Let that shit go. 

 

Why not both?  

[Had Enough 2126]

Guys push on the rebound on every rebound. It's a foul that only get called when someone goes flying or if the arm is fully extended and it's obvious, at almost every level.
 

Lower half is one thing. But using your upper half is shitty basketball.

I guess that’s sorta like holding on every play.

[JGrayDBU 377]

7 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

Miami will not shoot more than 10 fts against UConn. I’ll wager money on that

wow, I am not a betting man, but if I were I would take the over on this.  I've got them being shocked back to reality with a paltry 16.  I will be watching.  Never been a UConn fan before and probably never will again, but for this one time, Go Huskies. 

[UTEE97 3949]

Just now, Monahorns said:

 

Then go to bed.  At least you will quit being wrong.

He is 100% right and you're 100% wrong. Watch the clip he posted rather than arguing based on an image that doesn't accurately reflect what took place. I saw Brock do this in other games too and wondered why he keeps walking back instead of just trying to make an easy play on the ball, but I guess that's just not who he is. 

[hayden_horn 11403]

yall get lost in the weeds all you want. 

fix was in. no doubt in my mind. 

[LonghornSean 4109]

The call on Brock was a tough call, particularly because it was initially thought to be in our favor. Could have been called different, could have been played different.

Regardless, we still should have closed this game out with a chance to make a home state final four and be a tough matchup with UConn away from being a solid favorite in the national title game.

With the Moody center and other factors, we will be in a good position to have a strong program for the foreseeable future, whoever is the coach. But this was a rare opportunity that we let slip away and is pretty painful.

[Horndog 2322]

55 minutes ago, Slacks said:

Not my point at all.

My point was Brock never stopped moving his feet, so he never established position... As such he kept moving into a player who established a position vertically (via jump).

It happened. It's over. F it.

Proud of the run and the effort.

 

Do whenever an offensive player is backing his defender into the lane, the defender should try to leap over him and it's an offensive foul? Ok.

[kingkoopa6 8754]

I blame my cousin for the loss. 
 

Talking about flying to Houston and game over…. 
during the game.. he doomed us 

 

he suckered me in too.

 

[Mdhorn 6167]

18 minutes ago, LonghornSean said:

The call on Brock was a tough call, particularly because it was initially thought to be in our favor. Could have been called different, could have been played different.

Regardless, we still should have closed this game out with a chance to make a home state final four and be a tough matchup with UConn away from being a solid favorite in the national title game.

With the Moody center and other factors, we will be in a good position to have a strong program for the foreseeable future, whoever is the coach. But this was a rare opportunity that we let slip away and is pretty painful.

It's also painful because the better team didn't win.  That free-throw disparity was huge, but also, Texas choked.  Miami attacked and Texas settled.  I saw Allen gassed at the 8 minute mark--thought he was going to stumble at the top of the key on defense.  Carr lost his lift and some quicks with his injury, and the rest just went cold.  The officiating was still garbage, but Texas should have won that outright instead of leaving it to the officials.  Keep going inside.  It's easier taking the outside shots but no fouls are called and nobody was really boarding down the stretch.  Like nobody.  That was a one man boxout by Cunningham and there's no way they should've been beaten by one Miami guy under the boards.  Same happened on a missed Miami free-throw earlier.  They just were getting beaten to the loose ball.  Disu was extremely missed.  And the tie ups the refs gave instead of fouls were shit.  

[ChiTownDoc 21363]

2 hours ago, JGrayDBU said:

I just came back from 2 hours of pickle ball.  I told a friend about the game, etc. and that I needed to vent some frustration.  He asked after the 2 hours if I got it out of my system.  "I can do about two more hours tomorrow" was my answer. 

I hit some of the hardest balls ever, and nailed one no-look hit.  Beat a young man who has really improved, he is in his late 20s.  

I still feel like we're never going to get the Big 12 out of our system.  Groover and Valentine, so those are the two names.  I'm sure Valentine has retired by now.  Looking forward to Groover retiring.  

 

 

[Loop 1604 227]

8 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Hold or a push. That’s it unless it’s a hook and hold.  

[Underdog 29255]

5 hours ago, kingkoopa6 said:

I blame my cousin for the loss. 
 

Talking about flying to Houston and game over…. 
during the game.. he doomed us 

 

he suckered me in too.

 

More importantly, how is she doing? Needs consoling? 

[NoRagrets 1141]

6 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

It's also painful because the better team didn't win.  That free-throw disparity was huge, but also, Texas choked.  Miami attacked and Texas settled.  I saw Allen gassed at the 8 minute mark--thought he was going to stumble at the top of the key on defense.  Carr lost his lift and some quicks with his injury, and the rest just went cold.  The officiating was still garbage, but Texas should have won that outright instead of leaving it to the officials.  Keep going inside.  It's easier taking the outside shots but no fouls are called and nobody was really boarding down the stretch.  Like nobody.  That was a one man boxout by Cunningham and there's no way they should've been beaten by one Miami guy under the boards.  Same happened on a missed Miami free-throw earlier.  They just were getting beaten to the loose ball.  Disu was extremely missed.  And the tie ups the refs gave instead of fouls were shit.  

Agree with all of this. We ran out of gas and they didn’t. 

[Biff Tannen 46242]

So having slept on this and thinking about it now, I still say we got totally fucked. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19487]

7 hours ago, kingkoopa6 said:

I blame my cousin for the loss. 
 

Talking about flying to Houston and game over…. 
during the game.. he doomed us 

 

he suckered me in too.

 

Your cousin is a dipshit.

[Halohal 557]

Yeah, basketball season at the 40 acres is my number 2 behind football and I'll be brewing for a long time.

[MirrOlure 15333]

As an alternative to throwing alcohol and misery induced insults (apologies for that), I’ll reconcile this by conceding that if you look at Brock did in a vacuum, I can see it as a foul.

The problem is that it didn’t occur in a vacuum, he initiated the play by getting perfect position, and immediately got pushed on and jumped over (i.e. fouled) and did exactly what any player would do by maintaining his position while his teammates got the rebound.

Refs had to dig deep into their bag of fuckery to sort all that out the way the did. Just as easily could have been a double foul.

[hookem48 4857]

8 hours ago, UTHornFan014 said:

This is what pissed me off more than anything. The refs completely changed how they were calling the game compares to the first half and it ruined the flow/tempo that was working for us.

What changed the flow was Allen doing his best '90s Charles Barkley.

[Slacks 7086]

8 hours ago, Horndog said:

Do whenever an offensive player is backing his defender into the lane, the defender should try to leap over him and it's an offensive foul? Ok.

Ok. Defender jump straight up, offensive player backs up and goes under defender or just knocks him down.

Charge.

It happens several times per season. Shaq used to do it regularly. It wasn't getting called and players bitched about it because it's the rule. Once they started calling it, Shaq wasn't able to just built people as much.

Go ahead and find another example you'd like the rules to not apply to.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Slacks

[hookem48 4857]

8 hours ago, JGrayDBU said:

20 + years from now, I wonder how this game will be remembered?  Will it be the B12 officials dump all over Texas game, or will it be the perfect game for the first time in 31 years game?(Christian Laetner, 1992)  It is so hard to imagine now, but I am hopeful we can remember this as the perfect game for Miller, and even with that the score was tied with 1:02 to go.  

It literally took a perfect game to beat us.   

I also predict no one will remember the 'Canes past this game because I expect them to hit about 38% of their shots in the next game and get beat by about 22.  I also predict they will shoot about half the free throws they shot tonight.   I give them 16 attempts.  

Texas /Miami in basketball?  Nobody will give a shit by next weekend. 

[Slacks 7086]

18 minutes ago, MirrOlure said:

As an alternative to throwing alcohol and misery induced insults (apologies for that), I’ll reconcile this by conceding that if you look at Brock did in a vacuum, I can see it as a foul.

The problem is that it didn’t occur in a vacuum, he initiated the play by getting perfect position, and immediately got pushed on and jumped over (i.e. fouled) and did exactly what any player would do by maintaining his position while his teammates got the rebound.

Refs had to dig deep into their bag of fuckery to sort all that out the way the did. Just as easily could have been a double foul.

The bold part is what he did not do, which is why it was a foul. That's all. Everything else that everyone is arguing is correct, except it is nullified by this. He established, but did not maintain nor reestablish.

[theaveragejon 1104]

Kick Ryan Vegas in the nuts the next time you see him. 

[Slacks 7086]

7 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

It's also painful because the better team didn't win.  That free-throw disparity was huge, but also, Texas choked.  Miami attacked and Texas settled.  I saw Allen gassed at the 8 minute mark--thought he was going to stumble at the top of the key on defense.  Carr lost his lift and some quicks with his injury, and the rest just went cold.  The officiating was still garbage, but Texas should have won that outright instead of leaving it to the officials.  Keep going inside.  It's easier taking the outside shots but no fouls are called and nobody was really boarding down the stretch.  Like nobody.  That was a one man boxout by Cunningham and there's no way they should've been beaten by one Miami guy under the boards.  Same happened on a missed Miami free-throw earlier.  They just were getting beaten to the loose ball.  Disu was extremely missed.  And the tie ups the refs gave instead of fouls were shit.  

Yes. The Timmy stumble *did* happen. He just didn't fall.

Team was dead legged. Couldn't execute offense. Couldn't hit a jumper. Couldn't finish putbacks. Couldn't defend without reaching and fouling. Couldn't shoot the 4 FTs or however many.

Do *any one* of those and we're not talking about one foul being a potential 4 point swing.

 

[Horndog 2322]

28 minutes ago, Slacks said:

Ok. Defender jump straight up, offensive player backs up and goes under defender or just knocks him down.

Please define "straight up" because that's not what happened. 

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

23 minutes ago, Slacks said:

Yes. The Timmy stumble *did* happen. He just didn't fall.

Team was dead legged. Couldn't execute offense. Couldn't hit a jumper. Couldn't finish putbacks. Couldn't defend without reaching and fouling. Couldn't shoot the 4 FTs or however many.

Do *any one* of those and we're not talking about one foul being a potential 4 point swing.

"Team A didn't play perfect, so it can't complain about the late calls that went in Team B's favor and directly contributed to Team B winning, even though Team B didn't play perfect, either."

This sort of rationale never fails to amaze me.

And the amount of arguing you're doing over the Brock call, when it's pretty clear that Omier used his hands and arms to gain position and elevation on Brock and was jumping over Brock the moment Omier left his feet ... I dunno, it's strange. You're just as guilty of seeing only what you want to see in order to justify your position.

Setting aside the pivotal Brock call, it was a terribly and inconsistently officiated game. Should Texas have played better? Absolutely. But it was a tale of two halves in terms of fouls and whistles.

Perhaps with more balanced and consistent whistles, Texas players don't have dead legs and don't lose their shooting mojo. Or maybe that was more the result of Carr and Rice being hurt. Who knows?

Games are full of myriad variables, which is why it's idiotic to dismiss poor officiating as a contributing factor like a determined few are wont to do.

And stop asking why you are here. You are here arguing and bickering with the crybabies because you want to be. You're just as bad as them. Man the fuck up.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Braff Zacklin

[kevwun 16457]

How about you guys start a separate thread where you can argue about the foul call for the rest of fucking eternity?

[dcar00 15005]

9 hours ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

I’m confused as to what you believe Brock is supposed to do. Stand there and possibly let the guy go around him and grab the rebound? The entire point of boxing out is to initiate contact and establish position. Dude was already airborne when Brock made contact. That’s either a no call (Miami guy jumped straight up) or over the back (Miami player jumped forward through contact). Whatever though games shouldn’t be decided by shit like this

exactly,  this isn't 1970 basketball where no one touches each other.

[chemHORN 1303]

2 hours ago, NoRagrets said:

Agree with all of this. We ran out of gas and they didn’t. 

Bishop didn't run out of gas cause he just stood around on the boards and watched other people do the dirty work.  With Disu we win this game I think.  Bishop just didn't look like he wanted to be in that game.  

[PittsburghTiger 6387]

I didn't get to see the whole game because I was watching the kid play soccer for St. Louis but, I said during the ACC Tournament that Miami was really good.

Losing the big kid inside was huge for Texas. A game-changer but, Miller had a perfect night for Miami, 7/7 from the floor and 13/13 FTs. As a team they shot 59.2%. That's hard to beat.

It sure didn't help that almost half of the shots Texas took were 3s, and they only made 10/25, and you all still shot 50% from the floor. Nobody is going to get fouls called when they shoot so many 3s. Miami only shot 8 for the entire game. Miami's starting five were outstanding, all scored in double figures.

Now comes the hard work for your AD because this is an incredibly important coaching decision that he has to make.