TikTok furor is just cover to advance the national security state. Meet the Restrict Act.

[Mullet Free 40]

Patriot Act 2.0? 
 

Introduced by a bipartisan group of Senators. Reaching across the aisle! Fuck yeah!
 

 

Endorsed by the White House.  Get ‘‘em Dark Brandon! Woooo

 

 

 

 

[Neonmoon 38127]

This cover Fox News?

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

Who is Jennifer Haubein and why should I give a fuck what she thinks? I don’t know what’s in the bill. What’s been posted here certainly doesn’t tell me. The presenter appears to have his own agenda. My reflex is to assume he’s probably full of it. I’ll look in to it in due course and make a decision. Doesn’t sound anything like the Patriot Act, though  

 

[Goredho 17349]

You should post this in the political forum where it can be properly discussed.

[Mullet Free 40]

16 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Who is Jennifer Haubein and why should I give a fuck what she thinks? I don’t know what’s in the bill. What’s been posted here certainly doesn’t tell me. The presenter appears to have his own agenda. My reflex is to assume he’s probably full of it. I’ll look in to it in due course and make a decision. Doesn’t sound anything like the Patriot Act, though  

 

She was just providing the link to WH show of support.
 

I do have my own agenda. I support the Bill of Rights. I’m also against expanding Executive authority. This bill appears to do that quite a bit. As with most of these bills the language seems to be vague and allow some interpretation. As it is broken down more and promoted in the news, hopefully more discussion will happen here and help people make a decision on where they stand. 
 

20 minutes ago, Goredho said:

You should post this in the political forum where it can be properly discussed.

It is. 

[Pam Cummings 9582]

I'd be in favor of banning social media in every form, at this point.

[Willfully Horn 7916]

Throw the right to privacy, and the ninth Amendment, on the burn pile and grab your ankles. What other rights will SCOTUS scuttle now that they have assumed the power to decide which rights we no longer possess. This legislation sounds terribad, but it is going through the correct process.

[atomheartbevo 89450]

6 minutes ago, Mullet Free said:

I support the Bill of Rights. I’m also against expanding Executive authority. This bill appears to do that quite a bit.

It expands executive authority and infringes on the Bill of Rights (but not 2A)? No wonder the Republicans love it.

But seriously, you're posting Libertarian stuff, and a lot of us here went through our own libertarian phases either before we were Republicans, while we were Republicans and decided to test the waters and cheat on the GOP a little, or later after we bailed on the GOP, so we are familiar with how they phrase things, and we will need to look through it more.

I really need to know what celebrated actor and comedian Rob Schneider thinks.

[wildcat09 29260]

I somehow doubt a GRU agent really cares about the Bill of Rights.

[Goredho 17349]

21 minutes ago, Mullet Free said:

She was just providing the link to WH show of support.
 

I do have my own agenda. I support the Bill of Rights. I’m also against expanding Executive authority. This bill appears to do that quite a bit. As with most of these bills the language seems to be vague and allow some interpretation. As it is broken down more and promoted in the news, hopefully more discussion will happen here and help people make a decision on where they stand. 
 

It is. 

That’s what I get before posting coffee.

[Goredho 17349]

P

14 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

It expands executive authority and infringes on the Bill of Rights (but not 2A)? No wonder the Republicans love it.

But seriously, you're posting Libertarian stuff, and a lot of us here went through our own libertarian phases either before we were Republicans, while we were Republicans and decided to test the waters and cheat on the GOP a little, or later after we bailed on the GOP, so we are familiar with how they phrase things, and we will need to look through it more.

I really need to know what celebrated actor and comedian Rob Schneider thinks.

Government + tech overlords is bullshit.  Tech CEOs are not welcoming this.  They only have a profit motive.  They want to control you insofar that you can be made a monetizable commodity.  They don’t want to have to deal with more government oversight and the associated higher costs.  Libertarians and the tech industry are natural allies in a fight against government oversight of social media.

That they aren’t is the smell telling you this has nothing to do with liberty, freedom or any of the other trigger words being bandied about.

[kevwun 15653]

32 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I somehow doubt a GRU agent really cares about the Bill of Rights.

I would like to attach a rider to prohibit the troll who started this thread from ever accessing the internet again.

[bolverk 29405]

National Law Review blurb on the RESTRICT Act for at least some limited background to discuss.

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/restrict-act-potential-new-enforcement-tool-to-address-economic-and-national

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

I'm surprised he didn't spell it fuhrer 

[bolverk 29405]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Who is Jennifer Haubein and why should I give a fuck what she thinks? I don’t know what’s in the bill. What’s been posted here certainly doesn’t tell me. The presenter appears to have his own agenda. My reflex is to assume he’s probably full of it. I’ll look in to it in due course and make a decision. Doesn’t sound anything like the Patriot Act, though  

 

Social media manager for the Libertarian Party of Texas.

https://lptexas.org/leaders/jennifer-haubein/

[tokamak 6352]

The TikTok bill may be shit, I have no idea. But that Twitter account posts a bunch of weird pro-Russia/Putin shit, which makes it impossible to take them seriously. 

[wildcat09 29260]

15 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Social media manager for the Libertarian Party of Texas.

https://lptexas.org/leaders/jennifer-haubein/

This person is either the most batshit insane person in the entire country or a reasonably intelligent grifter who realized that if you're a normalish white looking girl who claims to be a libertarian, those people will treat you like a god for the rest of your life. 

[Blotto 23434]

 Can someone remind me why TikTok is suddenly the greatest threat this nation has faced since WWII? Do we have reason to believe Jyna will steal our twerking best practices? 

[kevwun 15653]

It's been a Chinese spying app since it was launched.  The government is finally getting around to getting rid of it.

[wildcat09 29260]

China will still be able to buy everything we let Facebook, Twitter, etc. get from spying on us. 

[Captainant 27467]

The frustrating thing is that if we had actually effective personal privacy controls like a GDPR, we wouldn't have this problem. But all the unga bunga republichuds are so hardwired to either hate regulations or are pathologically driven to make them shitty that we'll never have a meaningful legislative solution

Fuckin bunch of uncritical idiot chuds thinking that GDPR is "Obamacare for the internet" and other sheepfuckingly stupid takes

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

China will still be able to buy everything we let Facebook, Twitter, etc. get from spying on us. 

also all of our land. we don't seem to be regulating that in the least

[Horn Dog 9674]

Lets put it this way.  If you don’t think TT is a threat, propose to China an identical US owned social media app that you want to make available to their population and see what how far you get.   That will tell you all you need to know.

[High Plains Drifter 10978]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The frustrating thing is that if we had actually effective personal privacy controls like a GDPR, we wouldn't have this problem. But all the unga bunga republichuds are so hardwired to either hate regulations or are pathologically driven to make them shitty that we'll never have a meaningful legislative solution

Fuckin bunch of uncritical idiot chuds thinking that GDPR is "Obamacare for the internet" and other sheepfuckingly stupid takes

 

I'm stealing this.

 

 

[F250 28691]

11 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The frustrating thing is that if we had actually effective personal privacy controls like a GDPR, we wouldn't have this problem. But all the unga bunga republichuds are so hardwired to either hate regulations or are pathologically driven to make them shitty that we'll never have a meaningful legislative solution

Fuckin bunch of uncritical idiot chuds thinking that GDPR is "Obamacare for the internet" and other sheepfuckingly stupid takes

I don't think it's a Republican thing. Outside of Sen. Ron Wyden nobody really pushes for meaningful legislation for the tech industry.

[Captainant 27467]

4 minutes ago, F250 said:

I don't think it's a Republican thing. Outside of Sen. Ron Wyden nobody really pushes for meaningful legislation for the tech industry.

Refresh my memory on how net neutrality and digital privacy efforts went last go round. And who's done the most to remove barriers for corporate political giving. 

[F250 28691]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Refresh my memory on how net neutrality and digital privacy efforts went last go round. And who's done the most to remove barriers for corporate political giving. 

What legislation for digital privacy are you referring to?

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

4 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

I'd be in favor of banning social media in every form, at this point.

He said on an internet message board.

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

Social media manager for the Libertarian Party of Texas.

https://lptexas.org/leaders/jennifer-haubein/

Ah, a phony. 

[Smax 3800]

 Can someone remind me why TikTok is suddenly the greatest threat this nation has faced since WWII? Do we have reason to believe Jyna will steal our twerking best practices? 

It's been a Chinese spying app since it was launched.  The government is finally getting around to getting rid of it.

China will still be able to buy everything we let Facebook, Twitter, etc. get from spying on us. 

It's not just about data collection, think about how the Chinese government getting more involved with the algorithm. Atweek here and there and anything pro freedom never comes up on a user's feed. A few more tweets and tiktocks about how America is bad a failure (yeah yeah we're kind in a shit state right now). Could much of this decent be tied to social media? Absolutely
Ticktock is a propagandists wet dream, "you" have the undivided attention of over 100 million American, mostly young and very impressionable. Without a doubt, the Chinese government is involved.

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

National Law Review blurb on the RESTRICT Act for at least some limited background to discuss.

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/restrict-act-potential-new-enforcement-tool-to-address-economic-and-national

“Civil violations can result in fines up to $250,000 or twice the amount of the transaction that is the basis of the violation, whichever is greater. Criminal penalties can result in fines up to $1 million and/or imprisonment up to 20 years.”

The fines don’t sound like they’d be much of a deterrent and how much do foreign actors really fear imprisonment in the U.S.?

[Captainant 27467]

34 minutes ago, F250 said:

What legislation for digital privacy are you referring to?

kind of not what you probably mean, but the patriot act and the various recent digital snooping bills are notable negative examples of digital online privacy.

 

Historically, we saw legislation like Video Privacy Protection Act to prevent the disclosure of (VHS lmao) video rental records as a response to Bork getting Bork'd. Strangely though, Netflix successfully lobbied [laughs in Citizens United] to exempt themselves from that so they could sell the data to facebook and google and other online advertisers. 

Those same technical mechanisms that enable advertiser revenue streams is the exact same toolkit being used by TikTok for their data collection. The only thing that people are freaking out about is that the company is owned by CHYNA, so it's an easy target to ham-fistedly wield the government against.

edit: also obligatory plug for https://noscript.net/ and privacybadger and nextDNS and other tracker-blocking mechanisms. The internet is a whole shitload more performant with less ads everywhere.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Captainant

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

1 hour ago, kevwun said:

It's been a Chinese spying app since it was launched.  The government is finally getting around to getting rid of it.

I'm sure they are getting a lot of good intel about me, now that they know that I tend to like all things about people getting startled, or dogs doing cool/funny stuff, or Karens getting owned.  

I don't have any more heartburn over the Chinese government having this information than Zuckerberg or Musk.  

[wildcat09 29260]

19 minutes ago, Smax said:

It's not just about data collection, think about how the Chinese government getting more involved with the algorithm. Atweek here and there and anything pro freedom never comes up on a user's feed. A few more tweets and tiktocks about how America is bad a failure (yeah yeah we're kind in a shit state right now). Could much of this decent be tied to social media? Absolutely
Ticktock is a propagandists wet dream, "you" have the undivided attention of over 100 million American, mostly young and very impressionable. Without a doubt, the Chinese government is involved.

I don't really disagree with you in general that it can be used to manipulate its audience in ways we don't want. However, I do think we over-worry about the TikTok audience being young and impressionable and don't worry nearly enough that Facebook's audience of idiot boomers think everything they read on Facebook is absolute truth. Thirteen year olds who have grown up with social media are much more sophisticated at figuring out what's bullshit than their grandparents. 

[Pam Cummings 9582]

29 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

He said on an internet message board.

Yes, i realize this counts. Think of the hours wasted here, it'd be a good thing.

[F250 28691]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

kind of not what you probably mean, but the patriot act and the various recent digital snooping bills are notable negative examples of digital online privacy.

 

Historically, we saw legislation like Video Privacy Protection Act to prevent the disclosure of (VHS lmao) video rental records as a response to Bork getting Bork'd. Strangely though, Netflix successfully lobbied [laughs in Citizens United] to exempt themselves from that so they could sell the data to facebook and google and other online advertisers. 

Those same technical mechanisms that enable advertiser revenue streams is the exact same toolkit being used by TikTok for their data collection. The only thing that people are freaking out about is that the company is owned by CHYNA, so it's an easy target to ham-fistedly wield the government against.

No not really what I meant. I think we both believe a U.S. Data Privacy Act modeled after GDPR is what is needed.

Wyden seems to be the only member of congress that consistently proposes well thought out legislation concerning this topic. While everyone else is following the TikTok red herring, Wyden is trying to shift the topic towards the data brokers. He correctly points out that banning TikTok will not prevent China from just purchasing the data from the brokers.

I suspect a big part of the problem is a lack of understanding by the public and congress. Plus Americans have never really taken their privacy seriously like thr Europeans. As a country we just don't give a fuck. On top of that the industry is pretty effective at lobbying.

[Smax 3800]

I don't really disagree with you in general that it can be used to manipulate its audience in ways we don't want. However, I do think we over-worry about the TikTok audience being young and impressionable and don't worry nearly enough that Facebook's audience of idiot boomers think everything they read on Facebook is absolute truth. Thirteen year olds who have grown up with social media are much more sophisticated at figuring out what's bullshit than their grandparents. 

Agree but I'm looking at this from the perspective of something along the lines of a Cia psyops team doing the messaging. I'm pretty sure the kids or people who are targeted won't know it.

Just as I'm convinced that much of the social upheaval we are going through right now is due to outside/foreign forces manipulation on social media

[Captainant 27467]

1 minute ago, Smax said:

Just as I'm convinced that much of the social upheaval we are going through right now is due to outside/foreign forces manipulation on social media

https://www.channel4.com/news/data-democracy-and-dirty-tricks-cambridge-analytica-uncovered-investigation-expose

Yeah, turns out coordinated and consistent disinformation is extremely caustic for a healthy democracy, and algorithmically driven social media like Facebook (read: advertising platforms) is basically a hypodermic needle full of that poison. 

But there's no doubt that our enemies have been using it against us. It's old news at this point lol

[F250 28691]

13 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I don't really disagree with you in general that it can be used to manipulate its audience in ways we don't want. However, I do think we over-worry about the TikTok audience being young and impressionable and don't worry nearly enough that Facebook's audience of idiot boomers think everything they read on Facebook is absolute truth. Thirteen year olds who have grown up with social media are much more sophisticated at figuring out what's bullshit than their grandparents. 

Speaking of Facebook.

Facebook funded anti-TikTok campaign through GOP firm.

 

 

 

 

[tokamak 6352]

21 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

I'm sure they are getting a lot of good intel about me, now that they know that I tend to like all things about people getting startled, or dogs doing cool/funny stuff, or Karens getting owned.  

I don't have any more heartburn over the Chinese government having this information than Zuckerberg or Musk.  

Zuckerberg and Musk are at least nominally responsible to U.S. (and European) regulators and courts (seriously, you can stop laughing now). Big part of the problem here is that there's essentially no rule of law in China beyond what party leaders dictate.

Furthermore, the possibility of whistleblowers from within ByteDance/TikTok is nil. Remember that a whistleblower is what exposed Facebook's Cambridge Analytica fuckery.

[High Plains Drifter 10978]

33 minutes ago, Captainant said:

https://www.channel4.com/news/data-democracy-and-dirty-tricks-cambridge-analytica-uncovered-investigation-expose

Yeah, turns out coordinated and consistent disinformation is extremely caustic for a healthy democracy, and algorithmically driven social media like Facebook (read: advertising platforms) is basically a hypodermic needle full of that poison. 

But there's no doubt that our enemies have been using it against us. It's old news at this point lol

 

There is no doubt that Facebook, twitter, et al have been using it against us as well. Outrage drives clicks. clicks drive revenue. Therefore, social media drives outrage.

 

So, yeah, get rid of social media, he says while posting on social media.

Maybe a start would be to change all algorithms so they drive you toward videos of panda bears playing in the snow instead of "BEN SHAPIRO/RACHEL MADDOW COMPLETELY DESTROYS LIBERALS/CONSERVATIVES".

 

[Blotto 23434]

10 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

Lets put it this way.  If you don’t think TT is a threat, propose to China an identical US owned social media app that you want to make available to their population and see what how far you get.   That will tell you all you need to know.

Mirroring China's public policy decisions seem like a nonsensical way of determining our own policy. As a social media old, I need help understanding what is the exact threat that Tiktok poses, and is TikTok's threat worse for us than the systematic collection of user data and the sale of that data for exploitative purposes that US based social media companies have been happily facilitating for years? 

Maybe its a naïve question, but as someone that doesn't use the platform at all, every time I see it embedded in other websites, its basically stupid shit (dances, challenges, dipshit rants, attention mongering....basically the same stupid shit that occupies all social media. 

 

15 minutes ago, Smax said:

Ticktock is a propagandists wet dream, "you" have the undivided attention of over 100 million American, mostly young and very impressionable. Without a doubt, the Chinese government is involved.

At the 50K foot level, I get it....politicians want us to  believe China is the greatest evil of all time and we simply cant allow them to own social media sites. Never mind that they build 95%+ of all phones, tablets, PC's that we use to access the internet. But other than Chinese ownership of the platform, what is our concern at this point? Are we worried that once China realizes Caitlyn and Mackenzie twerked outside yogurt planet, they can leverage that information to take over our nukes?

Or is the move to ban TikTok simply a protectionist "only US companies have the right to monitor and exploit our citizens, and foreign governments shall not also participate in the fuckery unless they pay US companies first" policy. Because we know foreign actors are all over US social media sites today spreading propaganda, misinformation, etc... Shuttering Tiktok aint gonna do a damn thing to fix that. 

 

 

[henrygandorf 29179]

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

I don't really disagree with you in general that it can be used to manipulate its audience in ways we don't want. However, I do think we over-worry about the TikTok audience being young and impressionable and don't worry nearly enough that Facebook's audience of idiot boomers think everything they read on Facebook is absolute truth. Thirteen year olds who have grown up with social media are much more sophisticated at figuring out what's bullshit than their grandparents. 

13-year-olds are probably more qualified to vote than the almost-deads.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by henrygandorf

[956 Worldwide 34444]

TikTok isn’t legal in China. They block it themselves. It’s unreal that we allow it on our shores, similar to how we have Russia and China blasting shit nonstop on Facebook and Twitter while they don’t allow the platforms in their own countries. 

“Other than Chinese ownership, where’s the problem?”

LOL, “other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?”

We are so fucking terrible at friend/foe identification and it’s a chronic blindspot for libertarians. 

 

[956 Worldwide 34444]

TikTok is now the preferred search engine for 13-25 year olds in the U.S. If they want to know something, they don’t Google it— they TikTok it. If you can’t see the potential for exploitation by a hostile foreign power, I don’t know what to tell you. 
 

TikTok is also collecting vast amounts of biometric data, preferences, psychological profiles, and using that information to develop cognitive weapons. They don’t hide that they are investing in this. 
 

 

[atomheartbevo 89450]

6 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

This person is either the most batshit insane person in the entire country or a reasonably intelligent grifter who realized that if you're a normalish white looking girl who claims to be a libertarian, those people will treat you like a god for the rest of your life. 

You sir, were clearly a libertarian at some point, because you understand how the libertarian party works and who makes up the majority of its members.

 

[Horn Dog 9674]

2 hours ago, Blotto said:

Mirroring China's public policy decisions seem like a nonsensical way of determining our own policy. As a social media old, I need help understanding what is the exact threat that Tiktok poses, and is TikTok's threat worse for us than the systematic collection of user data and the sale of that data for exploitative purposes that US based social media companies have been happily facilitating for years? 

Maybe its a naïve question, but as someone that doesn't use the platform at all, every time I see it embedded in other websites, its basically stupid shit (dances, challenges, dipshit rants, attention mongering....basically the same stupid shit that occupies all social media. 

 

At the 50K foot level, I get it....politicians want us to  believe China is the greatest evil of all time and we simply cant allow them to own social media sites. Never mind that they build 95%+ of all phones, tablets, PC's that we use to access the internet. But other than Chinese ownership of the platform, what is our concern at this point? Are we worried that once China realizes Caitlyn and Mackenzie twerked outside yogurt planet, they can leverage that information to take over our nukes?

Or is the move to ban TikTok simply a protectionist "only US companies have the right to monitor and exploit our citizens, and foreign governments shall not also participate in the fuckery unless they pay US companies first" policy. Because we know foreign actors are all over US social media sites today spreading propaganda, misinformation, etc... Shuttering Tiktok aint gonna do a damn thing to fix that. 

 

 

I think it is extremely useful to look at another parties actions to decipher their intentions when those intentions are opaque.  As 956 states below, the Chinese government has banned TT in their own country, but promote it heavily here.  What does that tell you?  You could dismiss it as a strange coincidence but knowing what we know about the Chinese government and their intentions towards our society I think we can make rational inferences .

And for those saying “what do i care if the Chinese government knows I like seeing cats doing stupid shit” you are incredibly naive if you think that is the data they are mining from your phone.  They can mine your interests, everywhere you go, everyone you know, and probably can predict your behavior better than your spouse. And that is before we discuss how the world view and “facts” you are exposed to can be easily manipulated to affect public opinion in this country.  

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

It matters because Russia utilized Facebook to sow discord throughout our society in the previous two elections. That was on a platform housed and operated here. Imagine what is possible with a platform completely controlled by a state government who wants to knock America off sole superpower status. This isn't benign. All social media platforms are a net negative on society, tik tok has the potential to be the worst once fully activated. 

[Blotto 23434]

4 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

I think it is extremely useful to look at another parties actions to decipher their intentions when those intentions are opaque.  As 956 states below, the Chinese government has banned TT in their own country, but promote it heavily here.  What does that tell you?  You could dismiss it as a strange coincidence but knowing what we know about the Chinese government and their intentions towards our society I think we can make rational inferences .

And for those saying “what do i care if the Chinese government knows I like seeing cats doing stupid shit” you are incredibly naive if you think that is the data they are mining from your phone.  They can mine your interests, everywhere you go, everyone you know, and probably can predict your behavior better than your spouse. And that is before we discuss how the world view and “facts” you are exposed to can be easily manipulated to affect public opinion in this country.  

From what little I have read, I believe Byte Dance released Douyin in the China market before they ever released TikTok in the US, and China still allows its use. I could be wrong, but I doubt the TikTok app ever launched in China, as ByteDance/Douyin have to meet the Chinese government regulations.  I still dont think we should model our own internet public policy after China as the two countries have radically different goals. China allows Douyin to service 600 million people in China, so its not like China has an issue with ByteDance as much as they just want to control all media. As for what types of data they are mining, how is that any different than what US social media companies are harvesting/selling? 

I personally don't give a fuck if TikTok is available in the US or not, go ahead shut it down. BUT, lets at least be honest about it and admit that shutting down TikTok does nothing to stop US social media companies from doing the exact same fucking thing......see facebook/cambridge analytica/2016 elections. I cringe every time I hear the user base of social media apps as the customers of the social media companies. The users are the fucking product, they are for sale, and therein lies a big problem. You dont think Facebook knows which users are pro-vax vs anti-vax, pro Jan6 vs anti Jan 6 etc....? Of course they do. And I'm sure they make a decent penny off that knowledge. 

This TikTok "controversy" in my mind is  bullshit performance politics by politicians that have no interest in fixing the root cause of the problem. Hell most of them probably spend money on exploiting that problem every election cycle. Shutting down TikTok does fuck all to fix that issue. 

 

[High Plains Drifter 10978]

 

What do you call America banning tic tok?

 

 

 

 

 

 

A good start.