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The eternal foul argument thread


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1 hour ago, kevwun said:

Ha and for the record I agree that it was the right call.  Brock undercut him.  We all know there’s a reason he’s so good at getting under the skin of opposing players and he tried a little too hard on that play.

I see the only reason Cunningham was able to "undercut" the Miami rebounder was that his feet had left the floor and he was climbing over Cunningham's back. I don't think you need orange-tinted glasses to see the foul was at Cunningham's shoulder level, which wasn't initiated by Cunningham. 

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I believe Miami shot 27 FTs in the second half. That's 27! In just one half! Texas had 7.  I don't recall the last time I watched a game that was so lopsided in foul calls. The Cunningham foul was fatal. If it goes the other way, their big guy is out and cannot clog up the paint as he'd been doing all day. Even with a hobbled Carr-Rice, we'd get it done. I never thought I'd find myself pulling for UConn but, fuck my life, here I am.

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I finally got the stomach to rewatch that play and like it or not, it was the right call. Brock boxed him out but there was a point of disengagement where they were not in contact at all as the ball was on the way. By the time contact was reengaged the Miami player had already left the ground. Like someone said on the game thread, not like Brock did anything dumb - he had no idea what was going on behind him so he did what any well-coached player would do. It just didn’t work in our favor.

I do have issue overall with the free throw disparity given how many more FG attempts we had, and there was more than one block that went against us that were consistently offensive fouls over the course of the year. I don’t think they missed that call though…

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34 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

I do have issue overall with the free throw disparity given how many more FG attempts we had, and there was more than one block that went against us that were consistently offensive fouls over the course of the year. I don’t think they missed that call though…

Take a look at the shot chart and it makes more sense. The majority of you guys' shots were outside the paint. Y'all took 25 3s, they took 8. They lived in the paint. At a glance, I count 43 of your 60 shots as being outside the paint. You're effectively never going to win the FT battle playing that way.

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I was watching at a bar, didn't hear any commentary. Is this the rebounding call? I thought the problem was that the Texas guy didn't actually go for the rebound. If he had gone for the rebound or stopped his feet it would have definitely been a foul on Miami. It seemed that you guys were short handed and ran out of gas down the stretch with some sloppy play. Happens to the best of teams. This final four is the weirdest in memory. It's gotta be UConn, would be even weirder if one of the other won their first, FAU or SDSU especially. 

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46 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Take a look at the shot chart and it makes more sense. The majority of you guys' shots were outside the paint. Y'all took 25 3s, they took 8. They lived in the paint. At a glance, I count 43 of your 60 shots as being outside the paint. You're effectively never going to win the FT battle playing that way.

Yeah it’s easy to live in the paint when the officials are bailing you out every time you lower your shoulder into the opposing team and never get called for it.

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1 hour ago, 'stache said:

I was watching at a bar, didn't hear any commentary. Is this the rebounding call? I thought the problem was that the Texas guy didn't actually go for the rebound. If he had gone for the rebound or stopped his feet it would have definitely been a foul on Miami. It seemed that you guys were short handed and ran out of gas down the stretch with some sloppy play. Happens to the best of teams. This final four is the weirdest in memory. It's gotta be UConn, would be even weirder if one of the other won their first, FAU or SDSU especially. 

It's hard to go for a rebound with someone else's entire body weight on top of you and pulling you down.

 

It's never OK to jump over the back of a person who is boxing you out. That is a foul every time. They called it correctly and then reversed it because they're fucking pieces of shit at their job.

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6 hours ago, kevwun said:

Ha and for the record I agree that it was the right call.  Brock undercut him.  We all know there’s a reason he’s so good at getting under the skin of opposing players and he tried a little too hard on that play.

Total horseshit. It may annoy you when you get blocked out. But the person blocking out probably doesn’t appreciate that you’re trying to Tasmanian Devil through him. It was a terrible, terrible call. 

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I’ve watched quite a bit of college basketball this year and I will say that I saw a lot of refs trying to insert themselves into the game.  After watching that documentary about the NBA ref and point shaving it is surprisingly easy for refs to change the outcome.  
The refs definitely got involved when we started to run Xavier out of the gym.  Same thing yesterday. 
 

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2 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Take a look at the shot chart and it makes more sense. The majority of you guys' shots were outside the paint. Y'all took 25 3s, they took 8. They lived in the paint. At a glance, I count 43 of your 60 shots as being outside the paint. You're effectively never going to win the FT battle playing that way.

Yep. Jump Shots = less FTs. 

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Take a look at the shot chart and it makes more sense. The majority of you guys' shots were outside the paint. Y'all took 25 3s, they took 8. They lived in the paint. At a glance, I count 43 of your 60 shots as being outside the paint. You're effectively never going to win the FT battle playing that way.
No one has an issue with the fact they have more free throws. It's the way it came about. How many phantom, ref anticipating fouls were called? Too many. How many push offs and travels weren't called that allowed an easy path to the basket? Too many.

This was 2002 Kings Lakers and 2006 Wade in the Finals all over again.

They also reversed a correct call at the very end. I guess you can just climb on someone's back and make contact to get a rebound these days. Then right after that sequence, we drive to the basket, hit in elbow and no call at all. Then we are called for a soft bump at the other end to seal the deal for Miami.

That kind of free throw discrepancy doesn't happen at all unless the refs are deliberately trying to fuck the other team.
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5 hours ago, ut1978 said:

I believe Miami shot 27 FTs in the second half. That's 27! In just one half! Texas had 7.  I don't recall the last time I watched a game that was so lopsided in foul calls. The Cunningham foul was fatal. If it goes the other way, their big guy is out and cannot clog up the paint as he'd been doing all day. Even with a hobbled Carr-Rice, we'd get it done. I never thought I'd find myself pulling for UConn but, fuck my life, here I am.

I'm assuming you didn't watch the second round match up against Purdue last season?

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2 hours ago, CTC2 said:

I’ve watched quite a bit of college basketball this year and I will say that I saw a lot of refs trying to insert themselves into the game.  After watching that documentary about the NBA ref and point shaving it is surprisingly easy for refs to change the outcome.  
The refs definitely got involved when we started to run Xavier out of the gym.  Same thing yesterday. 
 

Part of it is also trying to have every call be a CC (Call Correct) while getting evaluated at the game so that increases your chances of getting to the next round. In this case, it’s the FF. 

 

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3 hours ago, Pancho said:

Part of it is also trying to have every call be a CC (Call Correct) while getting evaluated at the game so that increases your chances of getting to the next round. In this case, it’s the FF. 

 

Any thoughts on why that call got reversed?  Seems to me Brock was boxing out, the guy went over his back, the baseline official called it and then got overruled.

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4 hours ago, Pancho said:

Part of it is also trying to have every call be a CC (Call Correct) while getting evaluated at the game so that increases your chances of getting to the next round. In this case, it’s the FF. 

 

well then none of those idiots should see the final four.  those guys were missing calls left and right.

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2 hours ago, Helobious said:

I don’t think the refs were inherently out to fuck over Texas. I do think they changed the call once they realized that was gonna be that guy’s 5th foul. They didn’t want a star player to foul out of a game, even if he deserved to.

It was pretty obvious they were protecting Omeir.  He got about 8 fouls.  if they weren't trying to fuck over Texas then they are completely incompetent.  UConn is gonna destroy them unless the refs show up again.

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8 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Any thoughts on why that call got reversed?  Seems to me Brock was boxing out, the guy went over his back, the baseline official called it and then got overruled.

Most likely they both had whistles and Pat came over and told Ron what he saw and why he should take the call. Once I saw Ron point the other way (signaling the foul was on Miami), I got excited and went to go pee. I came back to discover it was 81-79 Miami so wondered what happened. The other reason it would have happened is because of what I posted about being graded at the game and what that means for officials. 

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10 hours ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

just messin around with my nascent gif skillz 

final_642257a73bc5ab05d8ddf084_344228.gi

 

 

 

What makes this more enraging is that Texas racked up several cheap fouls early in the half going after rebounds. Like, very minimal contact, happens every play type of stuff. Yet somehow that was also a foul on Texas.

 

Just mystifying really.

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