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Surly Boxing Thread

BigOrange1

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SpiralOut

SpiralOut 1,792

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Just in case anyone was interested, since I really was.  This is the live tracking of the Fury/Usyk fight by JABBR, the AI tracking system.  Supposedly 99% accurate.  They had 30 cameras + a 360 cam at the fight to catch all the action.

It's wild when you dig into the actual stats completely.  The AI thinks based on its system of tracking punches, damaging shots, aggression, etc., that Usyk won every round but the 5th and 6th.  So even the rounds I thought were close and gave to Fury, the AI is like, nah, he got pieced up.  Really just goes to show how fucky boxing scorecards are compared to what really happens in a fight.  

I've linked this video with the timestamp where the fight starts.  You can skip near the end to see the full stats at around 7:25:00.  Look in the lower right corner under Deepstrike Fight Flow to see how the AI scored the fight.

 

Edited by SpiralOut
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BNB
BNB

Great pic

hobbes2702
hobbes2702

Also how fucking great is it to have a big time fight that goes the distance and lives up to the hype and it’s on cable. 

Wanker Bob
Wanker Bob

Whoever stands in the way of Spence vs Bud Crawford needs to be shot. That needs to be the next fight. Would be the biggest in the sport in years

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Hermanator

Hermanator 6,653

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On 5/23/2024 at 2:17 AM, SpiralOut said:

Just in case anyone was interested, since I really was.  This is the live tracking of the Fury/Usyk fight by JABBR, the AI tracking system.  Supposedly 99% accurate.  They had 30 cameras + a 360 cam at the fight to catch all the action.

It's wild when you dig into the actual stats completely.  The AI thinks based on its system of tracking punches, damaging shots, aggression, etc., that Usyk won every round but the 5th and 6th.  So even the rounds I thought were close and gave to Fury, the AI is like, nah, he got pieced up.  Really just goes to show how fucky boxing scorecards are compared to what really happens in a fight.  

I've linked this video with the timestamp where the fight starts.  You can skip near the end to see the full stats at around 7:25:00.  Look in the lower right corner under Deepstrike Fight Flow to see how the AI scored the fight.

 

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PittsburghTiger

PittsburghTiger 6,067

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6 hours ago, shadow_operative2.0 said:

 

 

I've grown very tired of Wilder. I rooted for him against Fury in their first bout but, he just turned into such an ass. His refusal to ever try and develop a jab really tarnishes his legacy. The level of competition was also completely forgettable. He's done and should stop because this is embarrassing. That dude he lost to weighed about 65-pounds more than Wilder, who came in at about 214 pounds.

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SpiralOut

SpiralOut 1,792

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On 6/2/2024 at 5:33 AM, PittsburghTiger said:

I've grown very tired of Wilder. I rooted for him against Fury in their first bout but, he just turned into such an ass. His refusal to ever try and develop a jab really tarnishes his legacy. The level of competition was also completely forgettable. He's done and should stop because this is embarrassing. That dude he lost to weighed about 65-pounds more than Wilder, who came in at about 214 pounds.

Wilder's career is legitimately crazy in how successful it was considering his skill level.  All due to the untold amounts of protection he got from his promoter, Shelly Finkel.

All boxers have some easy fights at the start of their pro-career.  It's just the way the business works.  But for most guys it's 10-15 fights.  If you're an experienced ultra-talent like Loma or Usyk, it's hardly any.  There are about 500 ranked Heavyweight boxers.  Wilder was fighting unranked guys well into his pro career.

His 14th professional fight, where most guys would be looking to pick up a minor belt and become next in line to try for a title shot, Wilder fought a dude with an 11-38 record who was a cruiserweight.  It took him until his 26th professional bout to pick up that minor (vacant!) belt against a nobody Kelvin Price who almost immediately quit boxing after that.  For comparison, Usyk is the current Undisputed HW champ and was also Undisputed at Cruiserweight and he's only had 22 fights total in his pro career.  Deontay didn't become WBC champ until his 33rd fight when he beat Bermane Stiverne.  Didn't knock him out.  Got a decision.  And Stiverne is widely regarded as one of the weakest HW champions in the history of boxing.  He then goes on to defend his title multiple times against guys ranked outside the Top 25.  The only legitimate test he had during that time was Luis Ortiz.  A Cuban who wasn't anything special, but actually had the size combined with some amount of skill.  Problem is, Luis Ortiz, like a lot of Cubans, lies about his age.  Ortiz was supposedly 40 years old in their first fight, but it's pretty well known he was more like 45-46.  And Ortiz was demolishing Wilder for that entire fight until he got caught by a right hand.  Which is how a lot of Wilder's fights, even against cab drivers, went.  The fights were boring affairs where Wilder is getting repeatedly tagged until he finally manages to land his nuke.  That's how poor of a boxer he is.  He loses round after round after round until one big wind-milling right hand slips through.

Luckily for Wilder though, he caught a cherry-pick gone wrong.  He thought he could get an actual real name on his resume finally with Fury.  Fury was coming off his 3-year "say I have mental health problems but I'm really avoiding a decade long ban for PEDs and trying to cover it up" vacation.  Fury had looked rather mediocre against two bums in Seferi and Pianeta, so Wilder figured he was ripe for the picking.  Has that exciting fight where Fury does his Undertaker impression in the 12th and the rest is history.  The boxing/sports media pretends these two guys are some of the greatest HWs of all time and both guys get a ton of money/attention for that trilogy.  In reality, Fury is pretty good when he tries and gives a fuck which is hardly ever and Wilder is a one-trick pony with his right hand.

Lots of people have tried making the argument that Fury took Wilder's soul in those fights and yeah, those fights did take something from Wilder.  Still, the real reason why he looks like ass now is because he has found his level.  It's easy to just wildly throw haymakers at your opponent when they suck.  When they're legitimate Top 10 guys that can hurt you?  Not so much.  Which is what we saw in this fight with Zhang.  Wilder was scared to throw, Zhang was walking him down, Wilder finally decided to give it a go, and because his technique is so awful Zhang immediately timed him and sent him to sleep.  If Wilder had ever fought any real competition earlier in his career, he'd have been exposed then and nobody would have considered him anything but a circus act.

Oh, and he also happens to be a rather awful dude in real life.  Accusing his trainer of spiking his water when he lost to Fury in the rematch as well as accusing Fury of putting weights in his gloves.  Had sex with his brother's girlfriend.  The list goes on.

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PittsburghTiger

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On 6/5/2024 at 7:13 AM, SpiralOut said:

Wilder's career is legitimately crazy in how successful it was considering his skill level.  All due to the untold amounts of protection he got from his promoter, Shelly Finkel.

All boxers have some easy fights at the start of their pro-career.  It's just the way the business works.  But for most guys it's 10-15 fights.  If you're an experienced ultra-talent like Loma or Usyk, it's hardly any.  There are about 500 ranked Heavyweight boxers.  Wilder was fighting unranked guys well into his pro career.

His 14th professional fight, where most guys would be looking to pick up a minor belt and become next in line to try for a title shot, Wilder fought a dude with an 11-38 record who was a cruiserweight.  It took him until his 26th professional bout to pick up that minor (vacant!) belt against a nobody Kelvin Price who almost immediately quit boxing after that.  For comparison, Usyk is the current Undisputed HW champ and was also Undisputed at Cruiserweight and he's only had 22 fights total in his pro career.  Deontay didn't become WBC champ until his 33rd fight when he beat Bermane Stiverne.  Didn't knock him out.  Got a decision.  And Stiverne is widely regarded as one of the weakest HW champions in the history of boxing.  He then goes on to defend his title multiple times against guys ranked outside the Top 25.  The only legitimate test he had during that time was Luis Ortiz.  A Cuban who wasn't anything special, but actually had the size combined with some amount of skill.  Problem is, Luis Ortiz, like a lot of Cubans, lies about his age.  Ortiz was supposedly 40 years old in their first fight, but it's pretty well known he was more like 45-46.  And Ortiz was demolishing Wilder for that entire fight until he got caught by a right hand.  Which is how a lot of Wilder's fights, even against cab drivers, went.  The fights were boring affairs where Wilder is getting repeatedly tagged until he finally manages to land his nuke.  That's how poor of a boxer he is.  He loses round after round after round until one big wind-milling right hand slips through.

Luckily for Wilder though, he caught a cherry-pick gone wrong.  He thought he could get an actual real name on his resume finally with Fury.  Fury was coming off his 3-year "say I have mental health problems but I'm really avoiding a decade long ban for PEDs and trying to cover it up" vacation.  Fury had looked rather mediocre against two bums in Seferi and Pianeta, so Wilder figured he was ripe for the picking.  Has that exciting fight where Fury does his Undertaker impression in the 12th and the rest is history.  The boxing/sports media pretends these two guys are some of the greatest HWs of all time and both guys get a ton of money/attention for that trilogy.  In reality, Fury is pretty good when he tries and gives a fuck which is hardly ever and Wilder is a one-trick pony with his right hand.

Lots of people have tried making the argument that Fury took Wilder's soul in those fights and yeah, those fights did take something from Wilder.  Still, the real reason why he looks like ass now is because he has found his level.  It's easy to just wildly throw haymakers at your opponent when they suck.  When they're legitimate Top 10 guys that can hurt you?  Not so much.  Which is what we saw in this fight with Zhang.  Wilder was scared to throw, Zhang was walking him down, Wilder finally decided to give it a go, and because his technique is so awful Zhang immediately timed him and sent him to sleep.  If Wilder had ever fought any real competition earlier in his career, he'd have been exposed then and nobody would have considered him anything but a circus act.

Oh, and he also happens to be a rather awful dude in real life.  Accusing his trainer of spiking his water when he lost to Fury in the rematch as well as accusing Fury of putting weights in his gloves.  Had sex with his brother's girlfriend.  The list goes on.

Well said.

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SpiralOut

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Big fights tomorrow.  

Tank v. Martin:  Tank shouldn't have any problems.  Still not fighting the best guys.  Dude is 29, so you wonder when he's going to start, if ever.  

Benevidez v. Gvozdyk:  Most think Benny should walk through this dude.  Supposedly Benny beat the hell out of Gvozdyk in sparring back when Benny was only 19.  I think this might be closer than everyone thinks.  Gvozdyk is no pushover and he went deep with Beterbiev before finally falling.  Benny tends to have a bit of trouble with movers and Gvozdyk has good feet.  Still think the Red Bandit gets the job done.  Should be a banger.

Billiam-Smith v. Riakporhe:  SD win for Riakporhe back in 2019 when they first fought.   

Matias v. Paro:  Super Light belt on the line in this one. Both guys are pretty good at putting their opponents away.  Should be fun.   

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SpiralOut

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Benevidez with an easy win over Gvozdyk.  He got severely gassed in the back half of the fight, though.  Don't think he could take Bivol or Beterbiev.

Martin was looking good against Tank.  Then he started backing all the way up to the ropes over and over.  Tank smoked him.  Kinda tired of this shit with Tank though.  He'll eat the guys they feed him, but he isn't trying to look for a tough fight against the best.

Matias v. Paro was a war.  Fun fight.  Paro came to fight and somehow got out of there with the win, even with a point deduction.  

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PittsburghTiger

PittsburghTiger 6,067

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11 hours ago, SpiralOut said:

Bam Rodriguez just straight up murdered Estrada.  Dude is Top 5 P4P.  He's a monster.  

 

 

11 hours ago, Coach pop a bitch said:

Keeps getting better. Great performance 

I recorded that show and just finished watching. He looked fantastic. About 10 seconds before the ending uppercut that one in the middle of the ring was devastating as well. A really solid effort.

Lopez was so underwhelming. I guess I am just yelling at kids on my lawn here when I say he should spend less time on his ring entrance, and more time training. That entrance was such crap. Then, the fight was nothing more than a glorified sparring session. I don't know who it is that is advising him but, he needs someone different in his ear. That guy, Claggett, he fought is 35-years old. Yeah, he did okay but, he should not have been in there. If Lopez moves up he is going to have some issues because guys will be able to hurt him.

I like Lopez and want him to do well but, in his present form I like him less.

I am looking forward to this:

  • July 6: Newark, New Jersey (ESPN/ESPN+) -- Title fight: Shakur Stevenson vs. Artem Harutyunyan, 12 rounds, for Stevenson's WBC lightweight title - Watch on ESPN and ESPN+, 9 p.m. ET

 

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SpiralOut

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12 hours ago, BigOrange1 said:

Chisora wins by split decision.  Awesome heavyweight slug fest

Fun fight.

Chisora needs to retire.  Dude already has mush mouth when he talks from all the damage he has taken.  Still wants two more fights, supposedly.

Poor Joyce.  It's wild to see how he hasn't improved one iota over his entire career.  I remember watching him in the amateurs and he was comically slow back then, but he looked like a guy who after awhile might turn into something.  Instead he just got slower.  Never improved his technique.  Never learned how to defend himself.  

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BigOrange1

BigOrange1 6,356

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I thought Bud clearly won the fight, but I don't think he needs to entrain anything beyond 154lbs.  he's incredible, but there comes a point where the guys you are going against are just too big for you.  I don't think that was the case last night, Madrimov just had a super difficult style, but this talk of a Canelo fight needs to stop.

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SpiralOut

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12 hours ago, BigOrange1 said:

I thought Bud clearly won the fight, but I don't think he needs to entrain anything beyond 154lbs.  he's incredible, but there comes a point where the guys you are going against are just too big for you.  I don't think that was the case last night, Madrimov just had a super difficult style, but this talk of a Canelo fight needs to stop.

Lots of people trying to badmouth Bud over that fight, which is ridiculous.  Went up a weight class to fight arguably the best dude in the division who is naturally at that weight.  I had Bud 8-4.  Madrimov was feinting so much he made Usyk look lazy.  Problem was, he wasn't actually throwing.  Bud won that off his combos and his jab.  Not his best performance, but Madrimov is very good and a very awkward guy to fight.

Knew Anderson was going to get sparked.  Dude doesn't have the chin for HW, his technique is sloppy, and he needed more seasoning.  What an awful, awful decision to stand and bang with a guy 40 pounds heavier than you, especially when your defense sucks.  If you take a drink every time Anderson leans or moves straight back to avoid a shot only to eat said shot, you'd die from alcohol poisoning.  Bakole needs to be in there with the better guys in the division, but I don't think he's some boogeyman or anything.  He can bang and he's got fast hands.  Still, he's slow, too willing to take shots, and his footwork is bad.  A smarter boxer than Anderson will stay at range with a strong jab and wait until Bakole is gassed before banging it out.

Big congrats to Rayo.  The folks jumping on the Pitbull bandwagon after his demolition of Romero always confused me.  Pitbull is a one-dimensional fighter.  He keeps his guard up, walks in, and wings hooks.  That's it.  Dude has no jab, no punch diversity, and he's short as shit.  Rayo boxed his ears off and it absolutely shouldn't have been a split decision.

And finally, Ruiz got embarrassed.  He did break the fuck out of his hand, but that was an awful performance by him.  Miller is a big, fat joke and Andy never hurt him once.  Luckily for him he's got some name recognition and is Mexican so they pulled a draw out of their ass for him.  What a waste of a career.  

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SpiralOut

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AJ vs. Dubois in a couple of hours for the IBF belt that Usyk had to give up because of boxing chicanery.  Think AJ probably chins Dubois by the middle rounds.

Boxing nonsense is still alive and well, btw.  175 scrap between two mid-tier guys in Hutchinson (racist white guy) and Buatsi (black dude).  Buatsi knocks Hutchinson down twice, Hutchinson loses a point for a headbutt, and Buatsi wins all but about 3 rounds.  One judge still gives the fight to Hutchinson.  /facepalm

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BigOrange1

BigOrange1 6,356

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Unfortunately they'll be walking to the ring around the time the 4th quarter is starting in the Cotton Bowl, but Artur Beterbiev and Dmitry Bivol are fighting for free (on ESPN+) this Saturday.  One of the bigger fights in boxing and as close to a 50/50 fight going in to it as you will find.

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hobbes2702

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21 hours ago, BigOrange1 said:

Unfortunately they'll be walking to the ring around the time the 4th quarter is starting in the Cotton Bowl, but Artur Beterbiev and Dmitry Bivol are fighting for free (on ESPN+) this Saturday.  One of the bigger fights in boxing and as close to a 50/50 fight going in to it as you will find.

Really looking forward to this one. I’ll have two TVs in the movie room for this.

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SpiralOut

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21 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Pretty muted atmosphere but I’ve enjoyed the fight. 

Beautiful fight.

I think Bivol got hard done a bit.  The 116-112 card was ridiculous.  Beterbiev landed most of his work on Bivol's gloves.  I was leaning more towards 115-113 Bivol or a draw.  

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