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BigOrange1

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TexArcher

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11 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Fury can box too. And if you think Lewis and Vitaly or Vlad were some kind of all timer I dunno who you were watching. Holyfield was an all timer but he would be absolutely overmatched against Fury

So Holyfield was an all-time great but Lennox Lewis wasn't, even though he beat Holyfield?

Lewis was a three-time champion who went 41-2.  He beat Tyson and Holyfield and you're putting him below those guys and mentioning him with Klitschko, who he also beat.

I'm not saying Lewis belongs in the conversation with Ali, Frazier, Foreman, but he was arguably the best heavyweight of an entire generation.

 

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hobbes2702

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Just now, TexArcher said:

 

So Holyfield was an all-time great but Lennox Lewis wasn't, even though he beat Holyfield?

Lewis was a three-time champion who went 41-2.  He beat Tyson and Holyfield and you're putting him below those guys and mentioning him with Klitschko, who he also beat.

I'm not saying Lewis belongs in the conversation with Ali, Frazier, Foreman, but he was arguably the best heavyweight of an entire generation.

 

This is my point. He beat a past his prime Holyfield and Tyson. Fury is the best heavyweight of this generation and I think would probably beat Lewis straight up. That doesn’t meant these guys are all time greats. It means we haven’t had elite heavyweights in a long time.

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TexArcher

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5 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

The 90s crop was pretty good for heavyweights. Sure, Lewis and Holyfield both got Mike Tyson after his prison stint when he was a hollow shell of his once dominant self.   But other than that, they fought a lot of good fighters in a time when boxing was more popular and attracted higher quality athletes than it does today.

That's right.  Guys like Razor Ruddock and Hasim Rahman were way better wins for Lennox Lewis than guys like Dominic Breazeale and all these other bums Wilder's been beating up.  HW was deep in the 90s.  Give Lennox Lewis his due.  41-2 in a significantly better division.

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Dropout

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10 minutes ago, Alvin89 said:

Tyson taking the path he did pretty much takes him out of the running of the top tier guys. He was a monster but losing the biggest fights of his career can’t be over looked. 

I was a kid when Tyson was knocking suckers out. Hazy memories. All I really remember is the shell. So I agree w this.

Outta rep need to run through this thread and spread it another time.

 

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Alvin89

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I would never suggest one should take everything Teddy Atlas says to heart but he gave a pretty passionate speech about Tyson on Joe Rogans podcast.                                                         “He was as strong a guy as you’re ever gonna see, but he was as weak of a person as you’re ever gonna find,”  

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12 minutes ago, Alvin89 said:

100% agree and I’m a Tyson fan. He was an elite talent and seemed to truly love boxing in those early years. It’s a shame we didn’t get to peak Tyson vs Holyfield or Lewis. 

He lost the man who took care of him. That’s it. Couldn’t handle it.

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Alvin89

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6 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

RingTV ranking of all-time heavyweights has Tyson at 9.  Holyfield and Lewis tied for 11.  And those Klitschko bums at 16 and 17.

https://www.ringtv.com/488242-ring-greatest-heavyweight-time/

I’m sure if Tyson fought Holyfield before he was locked up it would be a different fight but the reality is he was 0-2 and was so desperate he bit off a piece of his ear. I’d probably have EH above Tyson. 

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Zavala

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Fury is 6'-9" with cardio, good chin, smart, and can move.

Who cares to go back in time through all the best HWs, he's the lineal champ, one of the greatest boxers of all time. Put on an absolute clinic after people doubted him because they didn't watch the first fight. In the first fight he was schooling Wilder, but playing around and not really boxing hard. Then got sloppy and almost hit KO'ed at the end of the fight. People only watch that one highlight and base their opinion off that. Meanwhile, he got in way better shape between then and this fight. Wilder is an awesome dude, hope he isn't broken after this, but he was protected and managed on his way up. Meanwhile Tyson seems like he just was born to box and I don't see him getting beat until he retires.

 

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ChiTownDoc

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You guys comparing medicated Mike Tyson, a shell of his former self, that lost to Holyfield without discussing peak Mike, are out of your damn minds.  Go watch the fights.  Two completely different fighters.  Peak Mike Tyson is in the GOAT discussion.  Easy. 

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SpiralOut

SpiralOut 1963

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That was a fucking beating.  Figured Fury would do better with a modified game plan and some extra weight, but holy shit. 

Maybe I was just imagining it, but Wilder didn't look right even before the fight started IMO.  Don't know if he just mentally wasn't ready or he had something else going on, but he looked off.  Of course once he took that shot to the back of the ear he was definitely off and it was a no hope situation from that point on.

One thing I am sure of, Lennox is an absolute beating as an announcer.  The old boxer being a bad announcer is cliche as fuck at this point, but damn. 

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PittsburghTiger

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Those straight shots are fucking amazing. It's like he's jousting with a damn oak tree. Not enough can be said with how Fury came at him, leaned on him, took away the space for a wild right from Deontay. It was a masterful tactical change.

I mentioned earlier in the thread about just how much power these guys have. Last night at the theater there was a Jagoff sitting in the row in front of me who spent the whole undercard of the show talking loud enough about how Wilder knew that Fury had no power. Yeah, right?

Going back to Michael Moorer. My roomie in college treated the cop that was punched by Moorer during an arrest after he lost the title to Big George. Moorer was on his knees and reached up and punched the cop in the face and basically shattered that side of his face. These guys are so damn big and strong. It's crazy. Even the HWT elimination fight before the dudes were throwing big punches, they just are not good enough to make them count.

I can't remember who it was from boxing who told me that people were nuts who said that George Foreman had no chance during his comeback. He said every time George hit someone with the left jab it was like a sledgehammer. 

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Slacks

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Those straight shots are fucking amazing. It's like he's jousting with a damn oak tree. Not enough can be said with how Fury came at him, leaned on him, took away the space for a wild right from Deontay. It was a masterful tactical change.
I mentioned earlier in the thread about just how much power these guys have. Last night at the theater there was a Jagoff sitting in the row in front of me who spent the whole undercard of the show talking loud enough about how Wilder knew that Fury had no power. Yeah, right?
Going back to Michael Moorer. My roomie in college treated the cop that was punched by Moorer during an arrest after he lost the title to Big George. Moorer was on his knees and reached up and punched the cop in the face and basically shattered that side of his face. These guys are so damn big and strong. It's crazy. Even the HWT elimination fight before the dudes were throwing big punches, they just are not good enough to make them count.
I can't remember who it was from boxing who told me that people were nuts who said that George Foreman had no chance during his comeback. He said every time George hit someone with the left jab it was like a sledgehammer. 
So... A guy I ran HS track with was training with George during the comeback. He would tell me, every fn day why George was to win the title... George could keep his wind up running with this guy (he was a high level distance runner) and he could knock down a wall easily... Boxing skill was better at 40 than 25, etc.... Great boxers are amazing athletes...

Fury carries some fat, but he doesn't move like 6'8 270 at all. He's a far better boxer than Wilder. Wilder needs a new trainer because his style is figured out and will be easily defended by top HWT fighters. All he did last night was stick out his left to measure for a right...and Fury crowded him and beat him down on the inside.
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52-80

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12 minutes ago, Snacks said:

So... A guy I ran HS track with was training with George during the comeback. He would tell me, every fn day why George was to win the title... George could keep his wind up running with this guy (he was a high level distance runner) and he could knock down a wall easily... Boxing skill was better at 40 than 25, etc.... Great boxers are amazing athletes...

Fury carries some fat, but he doesn't move like 6'8 270 at all. He's a far better boxer than Wilder. Wilder needs a new trainer because his style is figured out and will be easily defended by top HWT fighters. All he did last night was stick out his left to measure for a right...and Fury crowded him and beat him down on the inside.

He's done that for 40 professional fights.  He's 34.  He's not about to start picking up fundamentals now.  He was overdue for running into someone to clobber him.

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ajax

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I was wrong and I'm happy about the outcome. I hope Wilder comes back cause I like him too. I was kind of shocked how bad Wilder's defense and footwork were. He was crossing his feet while backpedaling and off-balance so many times.

I was also shocked at how prominently McGregor's whiskey was advertised in the ring.

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michaelpshayes

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7 hours ago, ajax said:

I was wrong and I'm happy about the outcome. I hope Wilder comes back cause I like him too. I was kind of shocked how bad Wilder's defense and footwork were. He was crossing his feet while backpedaling and off-balance so many times.

I was also shocked at how prominently McGregor's whiskey was advertised in the ring.

Finkel also said Wilder took “considerable time to produce a sample for VADA collectors, another reason he did not come to the post-fight news conference,” 

I really wonder if he was dehydrated going in, that would be strange for a heavyweight if so

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ss13

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Wilder said he knew as soon as he got into the ring there was a problem with his legs, which he believes was a result of miscalculating the weight of the costume he wore into the ring.

"There were a lot of things that went wrong leading up to the fight, in the last minutes before the fight, but I accept full responsibility," Wilder said. "I paid a severe price because my legs were how they were because of my uniform. My uniform was way too heavy. It was 40-plus pounds. We had it on 10 or 15 minutes before we even walked out and then put the helmet on. That was extra weight, then the ring walk, then going up the stairs. It was like a real workout for my legs. When I took it off I knew immediately that game has changed."

"I really let the designers freelance with it. It was really their idea," Wilder said. "By the third round I had no legs. I was completely done. My legs were gone. I had to step into survival mode very early. But you know me -- I'm going out on my shield. I'm a fighter, I'm a warrior. That's what I do."

Top Rank chairman Bob Arum, Fury's co-promoter, said he was surprised Wilder would wear such heavy gear going to the ring, while also pointing out the potential effects of the outfit's full mask.

"Well, I don't know about the legs affecting his performance but he had to be very, very negligent coming in with that head covering because that choked off his oxygen, and I'm sure that had an effect," Arum said. "Coach (Jon) Gruden (of the Raiders, who was at the fight) said that -- 'What is he, crazy?' And it wasn't covering him for two seconds. That was a long (ring) walk."

That’s a new one. 

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PittsburghTiger

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10 hours ago, michaelpshayes said:

Finkel also said Wilder took “considerable time to produce a sample for VADA collectors, another reason he did not come to the post-fight news conference,” 

I really wonder if he was dehydrated going in, that would be strange for a heavyweight if so

Yeah, that'd be extremely odd.

9 hours ago, ss13 said:

That’s a new one. 

That costume was absurd. As is his explanation. I have always thought his legs were extremely skinny, kind of like the guy who skips leg day. I know, he's a tall guy and he will be lean, like a hooper, but he is not Jabbar-tall. I was rooting for him, since he's an Alabama guy, but I wish he'd stop with the "going out on my shield" mantra. He's a boxer, not in the infantry.

The scroller on ESPN last night said that he expects to exercise the 3rd-fight clause, and wants it before the summer. This will be interesting.

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hobbes2702

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10 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Yeah, that'd be extremely odd.

That costume was absurd. As is his explanation. I have always thought his legs were extremely skinny, kind of like the guy who skips leg day. I know, he's a tall guy and he will be lean, like a hooper, but he is not Jabbar-tall. I was rooting for him, since he's an Alabama guy, but I wish he'd stop with the "going out on my shield" mantra. He's a boxer, not in the infantry.

The scroller on ESPN last night said that he expects to exercise the 3rd-fight clause, and wants it before the summer. This will be interesting.

He will get his ass kicked again. Fury figured out he can stay inside of his big punch and wear him out boxing on the interior. Unless Wilder learns how to throw a real jab, not just use it to measure distance, Fury will tune him up again. Especially now that Fury has a legit trainer and is in actual boxing shape

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Slacks

Slacks 7047

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He's done that for 40 professional fights.  He's 34.  He's not about to start picking up fundamentals now.  He was overdue for running into someone to clobber him.
He only has to get enough to make people defend more than one punch... Or one way to get to that punch... I've seen him land the left from a true boxing approach. He can hone that...

I thought he fought like a drunk against Fury. I knew Fury was the better boxer, but that was a significant demolition.
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PittsburghTiger

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July 18, Tyson Fury v Deontay Wilder III in Las Vegas!

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/28817407/deontay-wilder-exercises-right-trilogy-fight-tyson-fury-july-18

Former heavyweight world titleholder Deontay Wilder has officially exercised his right to an immediate third fight with Tyson Fury.

Top Rank chairman Bob Arum, Fury's co-promoter, told ESPN on Sunday that the plan was for the fight to take place July 18 at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, the same location that hosted the rematch on Feb. 22.

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hobbes2702

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35 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

I hate that immediate rematch shit. Wilder should have to fight Joshua for the right to fight Fury again. Fury beat his ass twice already and only corrupt judging kept Wilder from getting 2 Ls

Yea but why would Joshua grant Wilder a fight? Joshua wants the belts. He has no reason to fight a Wilder that doesn’t have any belts. 
Not that I disagree with your overall point just saying it’s not that simple.

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Junior Miller

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Wilder just lost and Joshua is just coming off reclaiming his belt after losing as well. That's why they should both have to fight each other to see who gets the right to go after the undefeated champion.

Unless there's somebody else besides Wilder in the heavyweight division who should fight Joshua instead for that chance. Wilder got dominated for every round except 1 or 2 over the course of 2 fights with Fury so I'm not too keen on watching him get dominated by Fury a third time. 

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hobbes2702

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22 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Wilder just lost and Joshua is just coming off reclaiming his belt after losing as well. That's why they should both have to fight each other to see who gets the right to go after the undefeated champion.

Unless there's somebody else besides Wilder in the heavyweight division who should fight Joshua instead for that chance. Wilder got dominated for every round except 1 or 2 over the course of 2 fights with Fury so I'm not too keen on watching him get dominated by Fury a third time. 

I’m saying there is no reason for Joshua to fight anyone other than Fury. Yea Joshua lost but he still has 4 belts. He’s gonna fight tuneups for the most part I would bet until it’s time for the super fight, whether that is vs Fury or Wilder. He’s not gonna fight anyone for the right to anything. He’s the most unified of the champions technically. 
 

And I agree with you and unless Wilder develops an entirely new way of boxing over the next 5 months then I don’t think he stands must chance again.

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ss13

ss13 1832

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Apple don’t fall far from the tree, Floyd’s girl cut a bitch. 

Singer and social media celebrity Iyanna “Yaya” Mayweather, the daughter of boxer Floyd Mayweather, was arrested early Saturday on suspicion of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, according to court documents.

Mayweather, 19, was taken to a jail in Harris County, Texas, around 1:30 a.m. after a 25-year-old woman was stabbed and hospitalized, said Capt. Jonathan Zitzmann of the Harris County Precinct 4 Constable's Office. The woman suffered non-life threatening injuries and underwent surgery, he said.

An altercation between Mayweather, rapper NBA Youngboy and a woman named Lapattra Lashai Jacobs turned violent Friday night, prompting law enforcement to show up at the rapper's home and arrest Mayweather, according to TMZ, which first reported the arrest.

Zitzmann said police arrived at the scene after emergency medical staff responded to a 911 call shortly before 7 p.m. The medical staff that helped the injured woman contacted police and alerted them to the possible altercation.

NBA Youngboy, born Kentrell DeSean Gaulden, and Mayweather used to be in a relationship. Jacobs has a child with the rapper, according to TMZ.

"I can confirm that one of the witnesses interviewed by police at the scene is named Kentrell," Zitzmann said.

Mayweather was released from jail on $30,000 bond, online records show. Her next court date is scheduled for Monday.

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