Tennessee School Shooting

[Goredho 17427]

I am getting a late start on this one, but two things seem very obvious to me.

First, the Nashville police provided a great tactical response to this mass school shooting.  They deserve kudos for a job well done.

 

My heart goes out to the victims, their families, the murderer’s family, and all the people in Nashville who had their world darkened if not shattered by this event.  I even feel sad for the murderer who ultimately got the suicide they wanted.  It’s all such a pointless, tragic waste… AGAIN.

[InkaUtexas 26188]

1 hour ago, tigol said:

Didn't save those kids that died.

No, it did not. But they responded as protocols post Columbine were developed. You do not always see evil, you have to react to it. 

I guess you have never been in a situation where evil presents. See them run past the kid in the hallway? They had to move, find and react. That is what they did. 

[Michael Knight 12997]

5 hours ago, Hornstrader said:

I'm not disagreeing with you at all on that point. I was simply commenting on the reaction of law enforcement in this situation.

They did not wait. They did not dwell on the fact that they were moving down hallways lined with young children's lockers. They did not panic when they heard gunfire coming from above them. They rapidly but calmly advanced and eliminated the threat.

Cool

[po elvis 2083]

17 hours ago, statsman said:

I think any Uvalde police still in law enforcement should be required to attend a training event (observed by victims’ families) where they watch this video and explain what went right and wrong. 

Have the shooter out in the open in a lobby area instead of holed up in a classroom full of kids? 

[statsman 5486]

I don’t believe the police knew that when they entered the building, and especially when they heard second floor shots fired and then went up the stairs. 
 

They knew there was a shooter, there were kids, and most likely the shooter intended to not be captured alive. They moved to engage as quickly and surely as possible. 
 

Courage is not being unafraid. Courage is doing your duty despite being afraid. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by statsman

[HamsterHookah 112]

Kudos and hats off the police here for sure. Definitely saved lives with their rapid and efficient and brave response. 

[locodos 5411]

4 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Kudos and hats off the police here for sure. Definitely saved lives with their rapid and efficient and brave response. 

Otherwise known as doing their f*cking jobs...  That said, at least they're not the cowards from Broward or Uvalde.  

Edited March 29, 2023 by locodos

[po elvis 2083]

11 minutes ago, statsman said:

I don’t believe the police knew that when they entered the building, and especially when they heard second floor shots fired and then went up the stairs. 
 

They knew there was a shooter, there were kids, and most likely the shooter intended to not be captured alive. They moved to engage as quickly and surely as possible. 
 

Courage is not being unafraid. Courage is doing your duty despite being afraid. 

If the Uvalde shooter was in that hallway outside of that classroom he would have been shot and killed pronto. If the Nashville shooter was inside a classroom with 30 people, we don't know what the Nashville police would have done.

[locodos 5411]

21 minutes ago, po elvis said:

If the Uvalde shooter was in that hallway outside of that classroom he would have been shot and killed pronto. If the Nashville shooter was inside a classroom with 30 people, we don't know what the Nashville police would have done.

Yeah the Uvalde shooter was in an unlocked room murdering children, it was the cops that sat in the hallway.   Don't try to excuse their cowardly behavior. 

Also while I don't think cops are all heroes or villains by default, it sure looks like the Tennessee cops might actually deserve some admiration for a job well done.   I saw the video, they went into rooms to clear them.  It sure seems like the Nashville cops remembered their training and their balls and went to confront the shooter ASAP instead of detaining parents and setting up road blocks at a safe distance.

I wonder why only Nashville PD wanted to release the bodycams so quickly while Parkland and Uvalde have vigorously fought public disclosure.

Edited March 29, 2023 by locodos

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

7 minutes ago, locodos said:

It sure seems like the Nashville cops remembered their training and their balls and went to confront the shooter ASAP instead of detaining parents and setting up road blocks at a safe distance.

I would suspect that the NPD probably regularly practiced such exercises and was funded to o so whereas UPD did not and was not. It does not excuse the cowardice of letting children die in safety. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Bobby_Batronic

[Underdog 28808]

Had the shooter been holed up in a room full of kids I think the cops would've tried negotiating with the shooter, any shots fired from that room and all negotiations stop and they try and save as many as they can.  Jmo. 

[Eastwood 4394]

14 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

No, it did not. But they responded as protocols post Columbine were developed. You do not always see evil, you have to react to it. 

I guess you have never been in a situation where evil presents. See them run past the kid in the hallway? They had to move, find and react. That is what they did. 

That image got compartmentalized so they could finish the job, but they will be unpacking it for the rest of their lives at great expense to their mental health and wellbeing. 

[locodos 5411]

10 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Had the shooter been holed up in a room full of kids I think the cops would've tried negotiating with the shooter, any shots fired from that room and all negotiations stop and they try and save as many as they can.  Jmo. 

I'm not a tactical bro, but it's my (perhaps naïve) understanding that the policy is to engage an active school shooter ASAP.  I'm mean after shots have been fired do you negotiate while kids bleed out on the floor?  

[Helobious 9467]

42 minutes ago, po elvis said:

If the Uvalde shooter was in that hallway outside of that classroom he would have been shot and killed pronto. If the Nashville shooter was inside a classroom with 30 people, we don't know what the Nashville police would have done.

The first cops on scene briefly engaged the Uvalde shooter and immediately retreated, in their own words due to fear of his weapon. They made no mention of fear of potential hostages or collateral damage. They were cowards, plain and simple. 

[Helobious 9467]

2 minutes ago, locodos said:

I'm not a tactical bro, but it's my (perhaps naïve) understanding that the policy is to engage an active school shooter ASAP.  I'm mean after shots have been fired do you negotiate while kids bleed out on the floor?  

That’s exact active shooter protocol and has been since Columbine. You ignore any and all wounded, priority #1 is neutralizing the threat.

[Nicole44 22079]

Substitute teacher, Cynthia Peak, 61 and student William Kenney, 9 are not pictured below. 
https://www.wsmv.com/2023/03/27/victims-identified-nashville-school-shooting/

I do think it’s important (imo) to just call the shooter by that descriptor. Or murderer. No names necessary for any of these fucks. They are all injustice collectors. Compiling their grievances. The last of the guns was purchased over a year ago. Lots of time to move away from these “plans.” Lots of time to make changes. I get these shooters/murderers are not working with a full deck but they sure can plan and hide their intentions. 
 

I worry about copy cats. I worry about the next few weeks. I worry that many of these mass shooters idolize other mass shooters. Nothing that has been done to any of these assholes excuses what they do and what they are planning. I’d rather they they seek help or in many cases take advantage of the help they have been getting. But they do not. They will not. My heart aches for all the families that are hurting and for those who don’t yet know they will be hurting bc they too will lose a loved one in the future. 

[statsman 5486]

I heard that many of these school shooters become fascinated with Columbine. Although I value civil liberties and our bill of rights, I might could be convinced that a LE AI noting and flagging an individual’s excessive curiosity in Columbine is OK. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by statsman

[Goredho 17427]

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, statsman said:

I heard that many of these school shooters become fascinated with Columbine. Although I value civil liberties and our bill of rights, I might could be convinced that a LE AI noting and flagging an individual’s excessive curiosity in Columbine is OK. 

Lol.

[SydneyCarton 48222]

24 minutes ago, statsman said:

I heard that many of these school shooters become fascinated with Columbine. Although I value civil liberties and our bill of rights, I might could be convinced that a LE AI noting and flagging an individual’s excessive curiosity in Columbine is OK. 

 

[Helobious 9467]

2 hours ago, statsman said:

I heard that many of these school shooters become fascinated with Columbine. Although I value civil liberties and our bill of rights, I might could be convinced that a LE AI noting and flagging an individual’s excessive curiosity in Columbine is OK. 

They’re all fascinated by guns too, should we have your LE AI flag people excessively researching guns? That would’ve absolutely flagged the Newtown, Uvalde, Aurora, Las Vegas shooters off the top of my head.

[TXSooner518 2439]

2 hours ago, Helobious said:

They’re all fascinated by guns too, should we have your LE AI flag people excessively researching guns? That would’ve absolutely flagged the Newtown, Uvalde, Aurora, Las Vegas shooters off the top of my head.

[Handcruser 2805]

If the Uvalde shooter was in that hallway outside of that classroom he would have been shot and killed pronto. If the Nashville shooter was inside a classroom with 30 people, we don't know what the Nashville police would have done.

Most likely enter the classroom like they did multiple times in the video. They didn’t know where the shooter was at first. They kept clearing rooms.

They did a fantastic job. They did get lucky - but they didn’t shit their pants like the uvalde cops did.

[Nicole44 22079]

7 hours ago, Helobious said:

They’re all fascinated by guns too, should we have your LE AI flag people excessively researching guns? That would’ve absolutely flagged the Newtown, Uvalde, Aurora, Las Vegas shooters off the top of my head.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all that this killer made a point of doing the shooting on Monday.  “I don’t like Mondays” —Brenda Spencer. One of the few female mass shooters. 8 kids and 3 adults. Most survived thankfully though she fired off 36 rounds from a rifle her father gave her.

[4th and 5 4921]

2 hours ago, Handcruser said:

Most likely enter the classroom like they did multiple times in the video. They didn’t know where the shooter was at first. They kept clearing rooms.

They did a fantastic job. They did get lucky - but they didn’t shit their pants like the uvalde cops did.

NPD got extremely lucky not to have multiple officers shot or killed. Had the subject been barricaded, loaded for bear, and a possessed a little tactical skills, that fast push would have been disastrous. But that’s the job they signed up for.

[locodos 5411]

8 hours ago, 4th and 5 said:

NPD got extremely lucky not to have multiple officers shot or killed. Had the subject been barricaded, loaded for bear, and a possessed a little tactical skills, that fast push would have been disastrous. But that’s the job they signed up for.

Perhaps, but if you can't screw up your courage to go put yourself to the test in order to literally save young kids lives, then you shouldn't be a cop or anyone sworn to protect anything.  

 

[locodos 5411]

11 hours ago, Handcruser said:

Most likely enter the classroom like they did multiple times in the video. They didn’t know where the shooter was at first. They kept clearing rooms.

They did a fantastic job. They did get lucky - but they didn’t shit their pants like the uvalde cops did.

Don't forget the Parkland cowards...  Shooter escaped their "Perimeter" and was sitting in a McDonalds watching coverage of his shooting for fucks sake.

This work won the Pulitzer prize, I assume in part because the Sentinel had to fight to obtain information and painstakingly piece it all together...  Its not a long read and is interactive, but only look at this if you want to get really pissed.  Pay attention to the timelines

https://projects.sun-sentinel.com/2018/sfl-parkland-school-shooting-critical-moments/

[Nicole44 22079]

New information: thankful the teachers and students acted quickly. So very thankful. 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/30/us/covenant-school-shooting-nashville-tennessee-thursday/index.html

“As more details emerge about how a deadly mass shooting unfolded inside a private Christian school in Nashville, a former police officer who provided active shooter training at the school said the quick-thinking actions of teachers who locked down classrooms helped save lives.

The shooter who got into The Covenant School on Monday fired multiple rounds into several classrooms but didn’t hit any students inside the classrooms, “because the teachers knew exactly what to do, how to fortify their doors and where to place their children in those rooms,” security consultant Brink Fidler told CNN.

“Their ability to execute literally flawlessly under that amount of stress while somebody trying to murder them and their children, that is what made the difference here,” Fidler said.

“These teachers are the reason those kids went home to their families,” he added.

[Don Johnson 4757]

 

 

[Macanudo 13019]

4 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

New information: thankful the teachers and students acted quickly. So very thankful. 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/30/us/covenant-school-shooting-nashville-tennessee-thursday/index.html

“As more details emerge about how a deadly mass shooting unfolded inside a private Christian school in Nashville, a former police officer who provided active shooter training at the school said the quick-thinking actions of teachers who locked down classrooms helped save lives.

The shooter who got into The Covenant School on Monday fired multiple rounds into several classrooms but didn’t hit any students inside the classrooms, “because the teachers knew exactly what to do, how to fortify their doors and where to place their children in those rooms,” security consultant Brink Fidler told CNN.

“Their ability to execute literally flawlessly under that amount of stress while somebody trying to murder them and their children, that is what made the difference here,” Fidler said.

“These teachers are the reason those kids went home to their families,” he added.

Very glad those teachers reacted the way they did.   Angered and saddened that they have to know how to do that.

[ztejas 43555]

On 3/29/2023 at 12:25 PM, statsman said:

I heard that many of these school shooters become fascinated with Columbine. Although I value civil liberties and our bill of rights, I might could be convinced that a LE AI noting and flagging an individual’s excessive curiosity in Columbine is OK. 

LE would never get anything done. They'd spend all day looking into women fascinated with serial killers. 

[Nicole44 22079]

More from the instructor, Brink Fidler, who trained The Covenant School for an active shooter. This interview is from a reporter who attended that active training in 2022:

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/he-trained-the-covenant-school-for-an-active-shooter-he-said-kids-are-alive-because-of-it?_amp=true
 

HM: How seriously did TCS take this training?

BF: Extremely seriously. They reached out in the fall of '21 originally. Katherine Koonce, the head of school, contacted us, sat in on our training at another school. She hired us on the spot at that training and brought us in on our first available date and was excited to bring this to her faculty as bad as that sounds. But she really felt strongly about her staff’s ability to perform with the right information.

HM: What did you see that makes you say that the teachers performed flawlessly?

BF: I mean like under that amount of stress, there are police officers that can’t operate under that amount of stress. They did exactly what they knew to do and did it well. Those kids are alive because of it.

Brink Fidler is a former Metro Nashville Police Department officer. His security consulting firm is called Defend Systems.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Nicole44
Just thought it was particularly sad that the training Koonce authorized saved so many and yet she lost her life.

[JesusSweatDuck 17814]

Have they released where the three kids were when they were shot? I'm assuming they were likely in the office with the three adults?

 

I asked my kids about their training and they talked about what they do when they're in class. All the classroom doors are always locked. They have to knock to get back in from the restroom. Then I asked what they're supposed to do if they're using the restroom or in the hall.  Neither knew which is a bit concerning 

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

4 hours ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

Have they released where the three kids were when they were shot? I'm assuming they were likely in the office with the three adults?

 

I asked my kids about their training and they talked about what they do when they're in class. All the classroom doors are always locked. They have to knock to get back in from the restroom. Then I asked what they're supposed to do if they're using the restroom or in the hall.  Neither knew which is a bit concerning 

They should stay in the restroom and hide in a stall. If they are letting kids back in that are knocking, it’s a terrible habit and doesn’t follow any safety protocol. In a real situation, only the police unlock the doors and nobody moves for any reason. There is no verbal “all clear” or admin involved. 

[High Plains Drifter 11054]

 

I wonder if the colossal goat fuck that was the Uvalde PD and TxDPS response was in the back of the minds of the Nashville PD response.

Like "OK, I'm not going to be called a coward on national TV because I was too chicken shit to do anything while kids were being murdered like those pussies in Texas."

 

 

[High Plains Drifter 11054]

16 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

They should stay in the restroom and hide in a stall. If they are letting kids back in that are knocking, it’s a terrible habit and doesn’t follow any safety protocol. In a real situation, only the police unlock the doors and nobody moves for any reason. There is no verbal “all clear” or admin involved. 

 

Yeah, I've talked with my middle school daughter about the "training" they go through every year. If they aren't in a classroom when it goes down, they hide where ever they can.

[SurlyGator 883]

21 hours ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

Have they released where the three kids were when they were shot? I'm assuming they were likely in the office with the three adults?

 

I asked my kids about their training and they talked about what they do when they're in class. All the classroom doors are always locked. They have to knock to get back in from the restroom. Then I asked what they're supposed to do if they're using the restroom or in the hall.  Neither knew which is a bit concerning 

I saw a report somewhere yesterday that said one of them was leading her classmates out because of the fire alarms, and either didn't hear the teacher calling them back into the room or didn't get back in time.  Doing what she was trained to do.  Heartbreaking.

[fattyflattie 4638]

22 hours ago, JesusSweatDuck said:

Then I asked what they're supposed to do if they're using the restroom or in the hall.  Neither knew which is a bit concerning 

Ours have been trained that if in restroom, lock themselves in a stall and put feet up, as you'd imagine.   I need to engage them about the hall, I've never asked.   I do know that since Uvalde, they've been told to do some of the things the few survivors did.