2023 Houston Astros Thread

[Hank Chinaski 6,315]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Good thing we're talking about the Astros.

…without the guys that were successful, with a first-year GM with no track record and an owner who led a string of horrific signings in the most recent offseason. 

[tx 3 putt 76,958]

1 minute ago, TonyTexas said:

I’m going to do y’all a solid and distract Wulaw and Hank with this

 

cancel the game 

[David Dennison 18,860]

2 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

…without the guys that were successful, with a first-year GM with no track record and an owner who led a string of horrific signings in the most recent offseason. 

Kind of like last year.

[Scraps 13,561]

Dana Liar Brown on the trade 

 

[Hank Chinaski 6,315]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Kind of like last year.

I think you just like arguing with me. 

[WBT 20,572]

26 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

Maybe the club thinks less of Lee than scouts/prospect folks. I hope that’s the case, because if they don’t, then this suggests that they’ll be bad at valuing players properly. 

That part is obviously true just by the fact that Salazar got major league time this year ahead of him.  I'm somehow not convinced their catcher evaluation is all that strong having watched Maldonado and Salazar this year though.

[Ichabod 184]

My inside source says something big is being discussed including Drew Gilbert in that package

[Wulaw Horn 19,070]

8 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

I’m going to do y’all a solid and distract Wulaw and Hank with this

 

The fact that how maldonado feels has anything to do with Diaz not starting is so very sad to me.  Unless it's cancer.  I mean, I hope it's not cancer, unless its the kind that can get fixed in 3 months and he's fine. I will chip in for a wreath either way.  

[Dutchrudder 11,139]

I had no idea so many people from Korey Lee's family posted here. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,070]

10 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

One conclusion you might draw from the trade is the "Stros like Salazar better as the defensive part of a platoon with Diaz.  Clearly they don't place a high priority on getting offense from the catcher. 

Or, they could feel like they don't want both their catchers to be young and they want to go sign a 34 year old or something to be there to babysit.  Or, they could be deciding they are going to offer Maldonado a 3 year deal at Montero money b/c he's obviously better than Diaz so you gots to pay for that. 

[Scraps 13,561]

2 minutes ago, Ichabod said:

My inside source says something big is being discussed including Drew Gilbert in that package

it's Juan Soto isn't it

[David Dennison 18,860]

Did we win the World Series last year or did I dream that?

[Hank Chinaski 6,315]

Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

Or, they could be deciding they are going to offer Maldonado a 3 year deal at Montero money b/c he's obviously better than Diaz so you gots to pay for that. 

You know this is happening, and it’s part of why this trade sucks ass.

[Welch 635]

12 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

One conclusion you might draw from the trade is the "Stros like Salazar better as the defensive part of a platoon with Diaz.  Clearly they don't place a high priority on getting offense from the catcher. 

Given how 2023 has played out, we can safely conclude they don’t place much of a priority on getting defense from the catcher either.

[Hank Chinaski 6,315]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Did we win the World Series last year or did I dream that?

So we should make bad trades going forward?

[Wulaw Horn 19,070]

Just now, Hank Chinaski said:

You know this is happening, and it’s part of why this trade sucks ass.

IF that happens I will hunt Dana Brown down and kill him. 

[Hank Chinaski 6,315]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

IF that happens I will hunt Dana Brown down and kill him. 

You shouldn’t put that in writing.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Hank Chinaski

[texashorne 1,178]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

 

nm

[David Dennison 18,860]

3 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

So we should make bad trades going forward?

You don't know that it's a bad trade.

[Hank Chinaski 6,315]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You don't know that it's a bad trade.

That’s true. I also don’t know if the sun is going to explode in the next 15 minutes, but I bet it doesn’t. 

[Rockethorn1978 6,077]

[runthebone 7,982]

I was at the A's game when Korey Lee had 3 hits.  I was super pumped.

 

Little did I realize that I was going to see 75% of his career hits as an Astro.

 

And does 3 hits against the A's even count for major league stats?

 

 

[David Dennison 18,860]

3 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

That’s true. I also don’t know if the sun is going to explode in the next 15 minutes, but I bet it doesn’t. 

The probabilities might be just a little different.

[Wulaw Horn 19,070]

No yainer again. Good times. 

I ducking hate this so much. 

[David Dennison 18,860]

I have a question for the resident nay sayers:

What trade(s) would you like to see happen before the deadline?

Edited July 28, 2023 by David Dennison

[HtownHorn 14,682]

8 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

No yainer again. Good times. 

I ducking hate this so much. 

It really is hilarious. Any other player and he just sits a game or two. Dusty Baker really thinks that Maldonado is the single most important player on the team.

[Scraps 13,561]

.

[Snake Diggity 4,624]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

christ you guys could fuck up a wet dream.  as far as i'm concerned, this just makes the myles straw deal seem even more like an ass-raping, since yainer allowed us to deal lee and plug a hole.  there are a shit ton of young catchers out there - the prospect list is constantly full of them.  a lot of them are already up and doing jack squat.  we just had a good draft.  onward.

Who is Houston’s best catching prospect now that Diaz has graduated and Lee has been traded?  Miguel Palma?  Garret fucking Guillemette?!  Diaz and Lee were pretty much all Houston had in their system at catcher.  There may be some dude in the DSL who breaks out in 4-5 years but as of now their farm is really barren at C in terms of prospects who project to have actual MLB value.

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Who cares?

This is the mentality poorly run franchises have.  Most likely this is a nothing trade; Graveman will be a barely above replacement level RP on a free agent level salary for 1.5 years and Lee will be a decent backup C.  But trades like this add up and if you do enough of them you end up needlessly closing your window.

[David Dennison 18,860]

2 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

It really is hilarious. Any other player and he just sits a game or two. Dusty Baker really thinks that Maldonado is the single most important player on the team.

It's not just Dusty. 

[David Dennison 18,860]

1 minute ago, Snake Diggity said:

This is the mentality poorly run franchises have.  Most likely this is a nothing trade; Graveman will be a barely above replacement level RP on a free agent level salary for 1.5 years and Lee will be a decent backup C.  But trades like this add up and if you do enough of them you end up needlessly closing your window.

How many?

[Js1 85,337]

It’s going to be funny when Graveman has a shutdown 8th inning in a clinching WS game for us and everyone here will claim it was the greatest acquisition ever

[Snake Diggity 4,624]

9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I have a question for the resident nay sayers:

What trade(s) would you like to see happen before the deadline?

Honestly based on the prices I have seen, my move would be call up Gilbert or Loperfido to replace Julks/Meyers in the everyday lineup and call up Arrighetti to the rotation to replace Bielak and give a 6 man rotation to rest Framber/Brown/Javier for the playoffs.  Fuck trading in this heavy of a seller’s market.  Teams are mortgaging their futures.

[Hank Chinaski 6,315]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

I have a question for the resident nay sayers:

What trade(s) would you like to see happen before the deadline?

Generally, ones that bring back *likely*  value commensurate with what you trade.

(The exception would be something like the Randy Johnson trade. That was very likely going to be a big imbalance of future value at the time is was made. It was still a good move because it brought back a guy that could have been the most important piece of a WS title. It didn’t work out, therm’s the breaks.)

With Ohtani off the market, there isn’t anyone like that. So I’d be fine with them standing pat and not chasing spare parts. Graveman is fine. I’d rather have Lee in the organization. Again, it’s not a disaster or anything, but it doesn’t seem like a particularly good move to me.

I care more about keeping the club’s floor high over the long haul than I do about short-term patches. People see it differently; that’s fine. 

[Rockethorn1978 6,077]

2 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Who is Houston’s best catching prospect now that Diaz has graduated and Lee has been traded?  Miguel Palma?  Garret fucking Guillemette?!  Diaz and Lee were pretty much all Houston had in their system at catcher.  There may be some dude in the DSL who breaks out in 4-5 years but as of now their farm is really barren at C in terms of prospects who project to have actual MLB value.

This is the mentality poorly run franchises have.  Most likely this is a nothing trade; Graveman will be a barely above replacement level RP on a free agent level salary for 1.5 years and Lee will be a decent backup C.  But trades like this add up and if you do enough of them you end up needlessly closing your window.

JFC we’ve been to 6 straight alcs, 4 World Series and 2 titles. Do “poorly run franchises” do that? If so sign me the fuck up. 
 

I am predicting now that in 2027 people will complain about trades that won us titles. 

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

It’s going to be funny when Graveman has a shutdown 8th inning in a clinching WS game for us and everyone here will claim it was the greatest acquisition ever

Then in 2027 complain we traded Lee and mortgaged our FUTURE!!!!!!! 

[tx 3 putt 76,958]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

It’s going to be funny when Graveman has a shutdown 8th inning in a clinching WS game for us and everyone here will claim it was the greatest acquisition ever

Grave man will keep requesting that Diaz catch hiM and he’ll be dfa’d 

[David Dennison 18,860]

Just now, Rockethorn1978 said:

JFC we’ve been to 6 straight alcs, 4 World Series and 2 titles. Do “poorly run franchises” do that? If so sign me the fuck up. 
 

I am predicting now that in 2027 people will complain about trades that won us titles. 

aLl ThE sUcCeSsFuL pEoPlE aRe GoNe!

[Snake Diggity 4,624]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

How many?

Who knows, but I can say that Lee is the best prospect Houston has traded since the Greinke trade.  

[Rockethorn1978 6,077]

Just now, David Dennison said:

aLl ThE sUcCeSsFuL pEoPlE aRe GoNe!

I guess they didn’t watch last season. I swear people are dumb as fuck. We make trade to win titles. We’ve won 2 more than I ever expected and now instead of chasing the season you’re in we’re worried about being competitive in 2026. We could go to 10 straight WS, won 5 of them and those same guys would say we are poorly run when we finally have a down season. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,070]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's not just Dusty. 

It’s also 3 putt. 

[Snake Diggity 4,624]

5 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

JFC we’ve been to 6 straight alcs, 4 World Series and 2 titles. Do “poorly run franchises” do that? If so sign me the fuck up. 
 

I am predicting now that in 2027 people will complain about trades that won us titles. 

Then in 2027 complain we traded Lee and mortgaged our FUTURE!!!!!!! 

That’s my point; Houston has not made very many trades like this.  In fact I can’t think of a time they traded away one of their 5-10 best prospects for a replacement level player on a free agent level salary.

If this is the only move they make like this it’s probably no big deal.  I just don’t want to see 2-3 more moves where they give up significant prospect capital for players with almost no actual surplus value because the shit adds up.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Snake Diggity

[tx 3 putt 76,958]

Just now, Snake Diggity said:

That’s my point; Houston has not made very many trades like this.  In fact I can’t think of a time they traded away one of their 5-10 best prospects for a replacement level player on a free agent level salary.

If this is the only move they make like this it’s no big deal.  I just don’t want to see 2-3 more moves where they give up significant prospect capital for players with almost no actual surplus value because the shit adds up.

I thought Seth beer would turn into something 

[Snake Diggity 4,624]

2 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

I thought Seth beer would turn into something 

Everybody is in go-for-it mode until somebody copies the Yordan-Fields trade.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Snake Diggity

[texashorne 1,178]

2 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

That’s my point; Houston has not made very many trades like this.  In fact I can’t think of a time they traded away one of their 5-10 best prospects for a replacement level player on a free agent level salary.

If this is the only move they make like this it’s probably no big deal.  I just don’t want to see 2-3 more moves where they give up significant prospect capital for players with almost no actual surplus value because the shit adds up.

The Astros have a different plan at catcher revolving around Diaz, and JR Towles was not in those plans. My bad, Korey Lee, not Towles. I get them confused. 

 

[Rockethorn1978 6,077]

1 minute ago, Snake Diggity said:

That’s my point; Houston has not made very many trades like this.  In fact I can’t think of a time they traded away one of their 5-10 best prospects for a replacement level player on a free agent level salary.

If this is the only move they make like this it’s probably no big deal.  I just don’t want to see 2-3 more moves where they give up significant prospect capital for players with almost no actual surplus value because the shit adds up.

If it means we win another WS it’s worth it. What would be hoping for with farm prospects? That they develop and make the majors and we win a WS? That’s what we’re trying to do this season. It’s all about winning a ring, not about being competitive 3 years from now. We can cross that bridge when we get there but I hate to break it to you, every team and franchise after success will have some down years and need to rebuild the farm.

[uoftorange 1,386]

2 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

That’s my point; Houston has not made very many trades like this.  In fact I can’t think of a time they traded away one of their 5-10 best prospects for a replacement level player on a free agent level salary.

If this is the only move they make like this it’s probably no big deal.  I just don’t want to see 2-3 more moves where they give up significant prospect capital for players with almost no actual surplus value because the shit adds up.

That's because our farm system is way, way down.  Korey Lee isn't a good player.  He's not likely to ever be one.  The fact he's a top 10 guy in our system is because we traded other guys away already.  This isn't the Dodgers or Rays trading a top 10 guy away.  

 

 

[uoftorange 1,386]

1 minute ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

If it means we win another WS it’s worth it. What would be hoping for with farm prospects? That they develop and make the majors and we win a WS? That’s what we’re trying to do this season. It’s all about winning a ring, not about being competitive 3 years from now. We can cross that bridge when we get there but I hate to break it to you, every team and franchise after success will have some down years and need to rebuild the farm.

Yep, everyone is so focused on "keep the window open" that they forget the goal isn't the window, it's the WS.  The window is great, but not if it's not going to result in a WS.  Ideally both happen

[Hank Chinaski 6,315]

1 minute ago, uoftorange said:

That's because our farm system is way, way down.  Korey Lee isn't a good player.  He's not likely to ever be one.  The fact he's a top 10 guy in our system is because we traded other guys away already.  This isn't the Dodgers or Rays trading a top 10 guy away.  

 

 

People who assess prospects for a living disagree that he’s unlikely to be good. They are sometimes wrong, of course.

[Gut Wagon 8,069]

Decent trade. Graveman should help us now: Lee couldn't/wouldn't. In the heat of a pennant race with a veteran team, that's about as deeply as I care to analyze it. 

[Hank Chinaski 6,315]

Just now, uoftorange said:

Ideally both happen

Yes, exactly. Both. It can be done. That’s the whole point.

[Snake Diggity 4,624]

1 minute ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

If it means we win another WS it’s worth it. What would be hoping for with farm prospects? That they develop and make the majors and we win a WS? That’s what we’re trying to do this season. It’s all about winning a ring, not about being competitive 3 years from now. We can cross that bridge when we get there but I hate to break it to you, every team and franchise after success will have some down years and need to rebuild the farm.

I totally disagree.  Making the playoffs year after year after year is how you win rings.  Pushing all your chips in on a single season is how you doom yourself to a rebuild.  Also, if you think Kendall Graveman has any meaningful odds of being the difference in the World Series (over Seth Martinez or Montero or whoever’s roster spot he ends up taking), I have some bad news for ya.