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2023 Houston Astros Thread

Planet Houston

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henrygandorf
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FartingDreamer
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Am I the only one that can't stand the sight of Altuve, Bregman or Tucker?  Something about each one of them just pisses me off.  

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LCHorn

LCHorn 2616

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7 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

JFC we’ve been to 6 straight alcs, 4 World Series and 2 titles. Do “poorly run franchises” do that? If so sign me the fuck up

Let's just be clear, about the only things the first ALCS and this year's team have in common are Crane, Altuve, and probably two of the folks taking tickets.  I wouldn't overestimate the expected performance of THIS year's team or their leadership based on decisions made by Luhnow and AJ Hinch.  Or do you just ascribe all of their success to ownership?

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Snake Diggity

Snake Diggity 4621

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2 minutes ago, uoftorange said:

Yep, everyone is so focused on "keep the window open" that they forget the goal isn't the window, it's the WS.  The window is great, but not if it's not going to result in a WS.  Ideally both happen

Keeping the window open is how you win a WS.  Overpaying at the deadline in a historic seller’s market is how you end up having to tear it all down.

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uoftorange

uoftorange 1386

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Just now, Hank Chinaski said:

Yes, exactly. Both. It can be done. That’s the whole point.

But both were done, we've lost Springer, Correa and all but Altuve and Bregman from 2017 and kept the window open.  It can't stay open forever (I guess unless you are the Dodgers with endless money).  Even the Yankees have found that out.  

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18854

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Just now, Snake Diggity said:

I totally disagree.  Making the playoffs year after year after year is how you win rings.  Pushing all your chips in on a single season is how you doom yourself to a rebuild.  Also, if you think Kendall Graveman has any meaningful odds of being the difference in the World Series (over Seth Martinez or Montero or whoever’s roster spot he ends up taking), I have some bad news for ya.

Never thought I'd see this phrase associated with trading Korey Lee.

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Scraps

Scraps 13561

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That's because our farm system is way, way down.  Korey Lee isn't a good player.  He's not likely to ever be one.  The fact he's a top 10 guy in our system is because we traded other guys away already.  This isn't the Dodgers or Rays trading a top 10 guy away.  
 
 
He also wasn't going to be a top ten guy the next time the rankings come out....next month i believe
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uoftorange

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3 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Keeping the window open is how you win a WS.  Overpaying at the deadline in a historic seller’s market is how you end up having to tear it all down.

Except it's not an overpay.  It's one of the more reasonable trades done this season so far.  Helps both teams pretty equally.

And being the best team in baseball and having some luck is how you win a WS.  Plenty of teams (see Miami Marlins) won WS with one seasons worth of performance. 

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LCHorn

LCHorn 2616

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1 minute ago, uoftorange said:

But both were done, we've lost Springer, Correa and all but Altuve and Bregman from 2017 and kept the window open.  It can't stay open forever (I guess unless you are the Dodgers with endless money).  Even the Yankees have found that out.  

I'd like to think that baseball remains the one sport that rewards the smartest teams with the ability to defer a "shit cycle" the longest. 

I also think there's a pretty good chance this year's starting rotation is just too weak to try to double-down on improving this year's team short of adding a playoff quality starter like Verlander. 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14677

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11 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

That’s my point; Houston has not made very many trades like this.  In fact I can’t think of a time they traded away one of their 5-10 best prospects for a replacement level player on a free agent level salary.

If this is the only move they make like this it’s probably no big deal.  I just don’t want to see 2-3 more moves where they give up significant prospect capital for players with almost no actual surplus value because the shit adds up.

You'd have a point if the Astros didn't acquire the catcher (as a throw-in) that replaced the one they drafted. The Astros had a surplus at the position with a clear pecking order, and the ability to go get a decent backup like fucking Luke Maile ($1.15M) in the off-season to play the games Diaz doesn't.

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Rockethorn1978

Rockethorn1978 6077

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7 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

I totally disagree.  Making the playoffs year after year after year is how you win rings.  Pushing all your chips in on a single season is how you doom yourself to a rebuild.  Also, if you think Kendall Graveman has any meaningful odds of being the difference in the World Series (over Seth Martinez or Montero or whoever’s roster spot he ends up taking), I have some bad news for ya.

Lmao you think kory Lee is “pushing all the chips” in. We’ve been the most successful franchise the last 10 years. Some fans will bitch about anything I guess.

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uoftorange

uoftorange 1386

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Just now, Dutchrudder said:

Wait, are there people here who think Maldonado won't be on the team next year???  Y'all are gonna be real sad this off-season, lol...

I'll take that bet.  He won't be back.  Dana says what he needs to say, but he isn't re-signing him.  

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Rockethorn1978

Rockethorn1978 6077

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9 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

Let's just be clear, about the only things the first ALCS and this year's team have in common are Crane, Altuve, and probably two of the folks taking tickets.  I wouldn't overestimate the expected performance of THIS year's team or their leadership based on decisions made by Luhnow and AJ Hinch.  Or do you just ascribe all of their success to ownership?

Exactly which means they’ve had continued success over the years with different front offices. It’s not just one year with lunhow and we’ve sucked since he left. 

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UTHornFan014

UTHornFan014 710

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4 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

You'd have a point if the Astros didn't acquire the catcher (as a throw-in) that replaced the one they drafted. The Astros had a surplus at the position with a clear pecking order, and the ability to go get a decent backup like fucking Luke Maile ($1.15M) in the off-season to play the games Diaz doesn't.

The pecking order looks like this:

1) Maldy

2) Maldy

3) Maldy

4) Daiz

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14677

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3 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Wait, are there people here who think Maldonado won't be on the team next year???  Y'all are gonna be real sad this off-season, lol...

I fully believe that Dusty Baker is gone at the end of the season, so yes, there is no way Maldonado is on this team.

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TonyTexas

TonyTexas 10510

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22 minutes ago, uoftorange said:

But both were done, we've lost Springer, Correa and all but Altuve and Bregman from 2017 and kept the window open.  It can't stay open forever (I guess unless you are the Dodgers with endless money).  Even the Yankees have found that out.  

Exactly. The window that was supposed to start closing in 2021 when they let Springer then Correa walk. That window remained wide open and let that cool championship breeze in. 

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19069

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17 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Exactly. The window that was supposed to start closing in 2021 when they let Springer then Correa walk. That window remained wide open and let that cool championship breeze in. 

Part of what kept the window open was making good draft choices, developing, trading for prospects for your fungible big league arms. You know, the opposite side of the coin from what we are doing now. 
I don’t hate this deal and I didn’t value sleep at all. But it’s not likely a good deal and the Astros are coasting on the fumes of Luhnow greatness. Dana brown better be a hell of a drafter and developer because he’s not a good manager of the manager right now and this deal isn’t likely a win. 
we shall see. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18854

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3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Part of what kept the window open was making good draft choices, developing, trading for prospects for your fungible big league arms. You know, the opposite side of the coin from what we are doing now. 
I don’t hate this deal and I didn’t value sleep at all. But it’s not likely a good deal and the Astros are coasting on the fumes of Luhnow greatness. Dana brown better be a hell of a drafter and developer because he’s not a good manager of the manager right now and this deal isn’t likely a win. 
we shall see. 

Counterpoint: Jeff Luhnow's greatness happened because we were losing 100 games a season. 

 

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LCHorn

LCHorn 2616

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3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Counterpoint: Jeff Luhnow's best picks happened because we were losing 100 games a season. 

 

I'm sorry, I'm really not sure what point you're attempting to make.  That Luhnow benefited from drafting high and that he really wasn't all that great?

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18854

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5 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I'm sorry, I'm really not sure what point you're attempting to make.  That Luhnow benefited from drafting high and that he really wasn't all that great?

I'm saying drafting high presented him with opportunities his successors haven't had, and that's a good thing. We have no idea what Jeff Luhnow would have done if he inherited a 100 win team.

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14677

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3 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I'm sorry, I'm really not sure what point you're attempting to make.  That Luhnow benefited from drafting high and that he really wasn't all that great?

Luhnow was 50/50 in the draft, but he also started the organization with a Cy Young winner, a WS MVP, and a HOF awaiting him. I give him credit for building an organization that valued different things that turned out to be successful. He hired some really good people; he also hired some awful people that thought cheating was a great idea. He wasn't a great deadline trader either, because he overvalued his prospects. The best trade he made was for Yordan because someone told him to target him. He also traded away Hader, who likely would have been the difference in 2019. Click beats him at making a Luhnow weakness a team strength in 2022. Not to mention the Diaz deal which might rival the Yordan-Fields trade in a few years.

I don't blame Dana Brown for anything this season, he was hired well after the fact, and he likely sits under Dusty Baker in the org chart. Win or lose, he needs to be given a chance to build his vision of the organization after this season, otherwise you should have just hired fucking Ausmus like Bagwell wanted.

2 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Getting Tucker and Bregman in the same year has to be a GOAT MLB draft. 

Only because he fucked up the previous draft. MLB is the only sport where if you completely fuck up your draft, they will give you a do over the next year.

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UTPhil2006

UTPhil2006 3807

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2 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

How does anyone know what Lee's true trade value is?  He's a 25 year old minor-league catcher with a hole in his bat.  Those don't typically headline deals for a star.

Hell, even the people in this thread who are sad about losing him have set his ceiling at around 1.0 WAR per season.

Yes but I know Gravemans value.  

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29189

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21 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Many of you obviously view Lee still as a first round pick, instead of the non-factor that he has become.

yup.

also let's speak english for a second.  korey lee was the 32nd pick of the 1st round.  he's basically a 2nd round or comp pick at best.  he'll always be a 1st round pick, you can't take that away, but come on.  and now he's 25 and behind a younger catcher with a better bat.  he was never going to blossom here anyway, and until we find out that we turned down better arms for graveman, i am fine with this.

in fact, let's stop and acknowledge the fact that he's only a "prospect" because he's not good enough to be in the majors.  he's not a prospect.  i would be much more nervous if we traded some 18-19 year old with a cuban name.

this is a nothing-burger.  you fucking crybabies really need tonight's game to start.

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