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2023 St. Louis Cardinals thread -- fuckin' fire him already

Beau Vine

By Beau Vine
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You don't know me

You don't know me 1161

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

This will go over real well:

 

He's such a fake tough guy.

ETA;  Fuck!  I can't just let it go.  He didn't even answer the fucking question.  What's your reaction to the fans being frustrated?  Well, we're more frustrated than they are!  It's not a dick measuring contest, you moron.  This guy is starting to remind me of a passive-aggressive coach that once roamed the sidelines in Austin.

Edited by You don't know me
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You don't know me

You don't know me 1161

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1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

I think you just asked him.

Maybe, but I really didn't intend to.  I know that there is no way that he could or should tell anyone anything related to that sort of information.  We, as fans, like to say things like "Oli has lost the clubhouse", but we don't know shit about fuck.  

Hmmm.....  (here's some speculating)  Maybe Beau Vine not commenting on what his buddy may be feeling says a lot.  Or, maybe his buddy hasn't said anything to him.  Who knows.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45978

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I'm not sure it matters if Oli has lost the clubhouse or not.  I'm in near-constant contact with a shitton of Cardinals fans outside of this forum, and the overwhelming consensus is that he needs to go.  It will ultimately manifest at the gate, and if that happens, management better get the message.

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You don't know me

You don't know me 1161

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Just now, jimmyjazz said:

I'm not sure it matters if Oli has lost the clubhouse or not.  I'm in near-constant contact with a shitton of Cardinals fans outside of this forum, and the overwhelming consensus is that he needs to go.  It will ultimately manifest at the gate, and if that happens, management better get the message.

Do you think it will manifest at the gate?  It may take longer than we hope or even expect.  This fanbase is definitely loyal.  However, the boos inside Busch this last series should be an indication of what's to come if the front office doesn't do SOMETHING.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45978

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1 minute ago, You don't know me said:

Do you think it will manifest at the gate?  It may take longer than we hope or even expect.  This fanbase is definitely loyal.  However, the boos inside Busch this last series should be an indication of what's to come if the front office doesn't do SOMETHING.

I don't think there will be a big impact this season, or maybe even next.  Season ticket holders aren't gonna bail.  Casual fans may trail off.

I think this franchise is fucked w/o a management change and quite possibly an ownership change.  This smells a lot like the 70's.  They just suck.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54254

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Clown show:

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ST. LOUIS — Willson Contreras won’t be playing the outfield.

The Cardinals — in what is being deemed a long-term strategy to improve both inefficiency behind the plate and an underperforming starting pitching staff — have moved Contreras to the designated hitter role, revoking his starting catching duties for the time being. Their initial plan included Contreras playing some in the outfield to keep his bat in the lineup. However, as of Sunday, the Cardinals have slightly reversed course.


“We won’t have him in the outfield,” president of baseball operations John Mozeliak said Sunday during a phone call with The Athletic. “I know that came out yesterday, but after talking with him, it’s basically going to be more in the DH role right now. And there’s light at the end of the tunnel to get back behind the plate.

“I don’t anticipate (Contreras in the outfield) unless there’s some sort of emergency reason,” Mozeliak added. “Everything was moving quickly yesterday. A lot of things were getting out there. His hope is he gets a chance to get behind the plate. That’s what we’re going to work toward.”

Cardinals manager Oli Marmol also addressed the matter Sunday morning.

“There are ways to make sure (Contreras’) bat is in the lineup while we execute our plan internally,” Marmol said, noting the outfield was considered one of those ways. “How long is that going to take? That I don’t have an answer for. But there’s a plan that we feel good about to make sure we get him to where he’s comfortable and our pitchers are comfortable in executing.”


Contreras approached the Cardinals on Saturday after the club lost to Detroit 6-5 in extra innings for their eighth straight loss. He understood that his role, for now, will be as the team’s primary designated hitter. However, he did express a desire to remain focused on two positions, catcher and designated hitter. The Cardinals adjusted and will no longer keep him in their tentative outfield plans.

Still, whether Contreras plays in the outfield or solely at DH takes a backseat to the primary question: Why aren’t the Cardinals using him at catcher after committing $87.5 million over the next five years?


“Obviously the Cardinals were used to one guy behind the plate for close to two decades,” Mozeliak said. “The nuances of that position, maybe very subtle, are what a lot of our pitchers were used to. What we were seeing was a lack of confidence. Normally, you would say, why didn’t you address this in spring training? But in spring training, it’s so different in terms of what people are trying to work on. Pitchers are going a couple of innings. It doesn’t really count.

“With this, we’ve noticed a lot of puzzling trends we know we need to fix. We know we need to address it. … We just decided to do it head on, put it out there. Do we think we’ve seen Willson catch his last game? No. But this is going to take a little time to get him to where we feel he understands the expectations of what this role is for us.”

The Cardinals were accustomed to a certain preparation level and perhaps spoiled by nearly two decades of Yadier Molina. While they knew they could not replace Molina’s presence — and were not trying to — they perhaps underestimated the difficulty the staff would experience adjusting to a new catcher.

“What I don’t want to have happen is a finger-point, this is all Willson’s fault. It’s not,” Mozeliak said. “There are many parts of our team right now that are not performing to what we expected. I do think the nuances of the catching side, we haven’t had to spend a whole lot of energy thinking about it because of what Yadi did for us. You know that saying, you sometimes feel like you had a coach on the field? That was Yadi. That’s how we thought. Even though you might have a game plan, Yadi had the ability to allow that to evolve during a game, real-time decision-making.”

The debut of the pitch clock this season, which adds another component to game-calling and pitch selection, further complicates the matter. Pitchers feel they don’t have ample time to shake off pitches they disagree with. The pitchers, Contreras and coaching staff have yet to find an in-game solution to alleviate the issue.

“When you ask, where is this on the pitchers’ side, the difference is, this year you have a pitch clock,” Mozeliak explained. “In the past, if hypothetically you were my catcher and you keep asking me to throw a slider, I could just step off. Eventually, if you wanted to burn one of your mound visits, we could talk it over. But the clock has changed the dynamic of the interaction. It does speed things up. We need to come up with a strategy of how the communication between our catcher and pitchers can become more seamless or candidly, more timely, to allow if they’re not on the same page.”

Mozeliak said he still believes in Contreras’ ability to catch. But he also acknowledged the beginning of the team’s five-year commitment to Contreras has not started well.


“We’ve had a lot of face-to-face meetings together,” Mozeliak said. “We’ve assured him, we haven’t lost confidence in him. What we have to do is come up with a strategy that works for all parties.”

“You’ve got to have confidence with people in certain roles, that’s what it comes down to,” Mozeliak said. “We’ll be patient, but look, again, this has not gone how we would have thought. You’ve got to remind yourself it’s a long season, but it’s certainly gotten off on the wrong foot. … I do (still believe in Contreras). But some of the things we expect, some of the things about the game we’ve become accustomed to, I think he realizes it’s going to require more preparation. Now the question is, can that happen? I guess we’ll have to find out.”

The Cardinals are off to a disastrous start. They entered play Sunday on the verge of being swept for the third straight series. They have lost eight straight games and their 10-24 record is the worst in the National League. Their .294 winning percentage is higher than only Kansas City’s and Oakland, who both sit at .235.

St. Louis took a series of risks last offseason. The team did not address their rotation. The Cardinals bet on their internal depth and young talent. And they signed Contreras, believing he would adjust to a new pitching staff over the course of a couple of months.

So far, not much has worked out.

“When you make offseason decisions, you’re hoping they play out and work,” Mozeliak said. “But there are a lot of things that just haven’t gone right for us. Nobody cares if you’re having bad luck.

“The good thing is, we have time on our side. Hopefully, we can all be patient enough to work through this.”

 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45978

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You know that saying, you sometimes feel like you had a coach on the field? That was Yadi.

I'm not kidding:  fire Oli, hire Yadi.  For fuck's sake, he's basically the same age Mike Matheny was when they made him GM, and Yadi is twice as capable as that guy.

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You don't know me

You don't know me 1161

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Not rooting against them, but it would be really interesting to see the reaction if pitching doesn't improve over the next month.
The problem isn't the pitching staff that Mo assembled, it's the new catcher that Mo brought in. Either way this is presented, it shows that Mo is not good at his job. The front office is a clown show and Oli doesn't have the necessary skills to manage this team.
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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45978

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51 minutes ago, You don't know me said:

The problem isn't the pitching staff that Mo assembled, 

I've seen some seemingly credible arguments that the traditional Cardinals pitching style doesn't work well with the new rules regarding the shift, etc.  In that ballpark with those pitchers, I'm not sure what they're going to do.

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